Argh! Is this stealing? Piracy, Ethics, etc.

[Lavazza]

Before you said that the creator of the work had to give permission. Now you are saying that only the person who purchased the work must give permission? By that logic, then let's say 10 people purchased a Metallica album, and set it up for download. They are giving permission to loan that music, right? So how is it any different?

No, I should have been more clear. What I referred to earlier was that permission was needed from the artist when copying music on a grand scale, or in the case of music piracy making available to many people for downloading.

What I referred to in my last post was the everyday experience of lending a friend something you own.

But in both cases permission is needed. I need permission from the original artist to distribute the content via making copies, and I need permission from a friend to borrow the CD he purchased with the content on it. Lets also bear in mind before we compare them too much further, the difference between copying and lending- one results in an extra copy of the material and the other does not.

By that logic, then let's say 10 people purchased a Metallica album, and set it up for download. They are giving permission to loan that music, right? So how is it any different?

I'd venture to say that making music available for download to strangers is an extreme stretch of the concept of lending! I can't agree with that idea.

Then, by that logic, are you saying that downloading music is ok as long as I listen to it only once?

I think this is very hard to say in a definite sense. On the one hand, yes it technically is stealing. But on the other, if you really did delete it if you did not like it, or pay for it if you did like it, then you get very close to a situation where you're sort of listening to the radio. Consequently this has made me rethink my own policies.

If I had to chose right now one way or the other for the sake of our discussion, I would side with it being stealing. Because this is not the way the artists, record labels, music stores, etc. envisioned how their business would operate. Essentially permission is not granted.

This is true. Likewise, when we buy a used book, we have no way of knowing whether it was sold by its original owner, or has had multiple owners. Perhaps that book has already made the rounds. Or it might even have been stolen! (though less likely)

I agree, there is no way to know for sure. When I go to a yard sale I operate on the good faith of the person I am buying from. If I could somehow discern if it was stolen at some point it would change my purchasing choices.

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For the record, I am 100% against putting music on the internet for download. I think we need to differentiate between offering the music for download vs downloading it yourself. Like the difference between selling drugs and using drugs.

This is another good point you raise. If someone is selling drugs illegally and you purchase them knowing they are illegal, are you equally at fault in the legal sense? And with music downloading, are you equally in the wrong for downloading it as the person is for making it available?

I would argue yes. For the same reason we don't buy DVD players out of someone's car trunk, or for that matter sell something at a yard sale to someone who you know is paying with stolen money.

I realize I am beginning to sounds pretty self righteous! I'm actually a pretty chill guy in real life. I just love a good debate, and this topic interests me to no end since I was so close to the 'scene'.

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My inner voice tells me its innately wrong. I try to live my life according to that voice… as best I can.

Namaste, Richard