08-14-2020, 01:32 PM
(08-14-2020, 01:59 AM)Ray711 Wrote:(08-08-2020, 04:44 PM)Diana Wrote: Yes, very true. However, there are countless posts (I will post one below) on these forums that point out the differences between plant and animal life, if it matters to anyone how much suffering is caused.
I think it can be misguided to base the quality of an entity's experience (or suffering) exclusively on a materialistic perspective. There are different experiments that, at face value, don't make much sense from that angle. For example, it is said that if you play rock music in an area where plants are growing, the plants will grow in the opposite direction. If you play classical music, the plants grow in the direction where the music is coming from.
Well, this is what I was referring to when I talked about countless posts.
Plants certainly have consciousness and intelligence.
When considering life forms, evolution can be a major clue into understanding. For example, our brain stem is the "lizard" brain—pure survival instinct and reaction to the environment. We have developed the mammalian brain and finally the neocortex, which is the most recent and human brain portion—all through evolution. Encoded within the brain and the DNA are behaviors based on evolution which get passed on. We are closest to animals in our DNA and the way our brains function. The brain is what registers pain through the nervous system.
There are two major points to consider:
1. What do we KNOW?
ANIMALS
We know animals feel pain. We know they suffer. We know that dairy cows wail and pound the ground when their calfs are taken away from them (probably to be tightly penned for a short, torturous life, fattened and slaughtered for veal). We know animals are terrified when taken to slaughter (the likes of which are so inhumane as to make a person sick). Even if the animal is slaughtered "humanely" the animal does not want to die, as witnessed by it's terror and fighting to get away (it's not like anyone injects them with a sedative first). How pigs are treated is beyond cruel. I'll stop here, but there is so much more.
PLANTS
Plants have reactions to certain things. They may have emotions. They may have a kind of fear based on survival instinct. We may assume they don't want to be extinguished and they have preferences in an environment, such as the music, which is sound—waves which can be felt. They are rooted in the ground and have evolved this way. They cannot move. Their root systems survive and communicate in a natural setting no matter how much their leaves, fruits, and stems are eaten. They did evolve to survive and propagate by animals eating them. They do not raise their young, but let the seeds go where they will.
2. Since we must eat, what causes the least harm to all life on the planet?
This includes not only the life taken for food (plant or animal), but the ecosystem, environment, and health of the planet itself. It includes the idea that no human should starve or be hungry when we have enough resources to feed everyone. Farming animals for food is not only the biggest cause of greenhouses gases, it is also using up resources (water, plant crops) better used to feed people.
(08-14-2020, 01:59 AM)Ray711 Wrote: Ra also put trees pretty much on par with pets, as far as entities capable of giving and receiving love and making a transition to third density.
I actually think it's possible for trees to harvest to 4th density, as they are STO for sure—housing and protecting countless creatures of all kinds, providing shade, food, and love in their way.
(08-14-2020, 01:59 AM)Ray711 Wrote:(08-08-2020, 04:44 PM)Diana Wrote: Making both polarities available is for 3rd density beings only. So why cause pain to other life forms?
I agree that in general a plant-based diet entails less suffering, but I'm convinced that it still very much entails a kind of suffering of its own, although an unavoidable one. I believe plants feel far more than it is apparent to us, as indicated above.
I have never said otherwise. My purpose is in causing the least amount of harm. This is how I make choices. I once read an account (it doesn't matter whether or not it's true) of an extraterrestrial race who practiced levitation when moving about so they didn't harm the grass, plant life, or insects when walking. When I read this, I was filled with desire to be able to live that way. But I can't here, or least I am unable. But in all things, as far as my awareness is cognizant, I seek to cause the least harm. I don't go crazy about this as though it's a religion; but it is a way of life.
(08-14-2020, 01:59 AM)Ray711 Wrote:(08-08-2020, 04:44 PM)Diana Wrote: You can, however, prune a plant and cut off leaves without killing it. You can harvest vegetables without killing the plant. Many plants "want" animals to eat them as it is their way of spreading seed and propagating.
This is true, but in the case of (for example) fruit, often times we alter them genetically so that they don't produce seeds, reproduction being arguably the sole reason why fruit evolved through natural selection to provide nourishment to other species in the first place. Even if we don't genetically alter it, through farming we are reducing or eliminating as much as possible the reproductive function of fruit, and turning it solely into an object of nourishment for us. Does the fruit care that its self-interested reason for existing has been taken away? It's hard to say, and the implications of this (if any) are for each to consider. I only wish to point out that we live in a deliberately (seemingly) imperfect illusion where perfect love is not yet possible. Therefore, there are many different paths, many interpretations as to how to get as close to that ideal of perfect love as human experience allows.
Certainly humanity has raped, pillaged, destroyed, and disrespected this planet and all life on it, and continues to do so.
I agree that the way we commercially grow plant crops is deplorable. But don't let this blur the issue of choosing plant or animal life for food. Because we have perverted farming plants is not an excuse to needlessly torture animals for food. I say needlessly because we can survive on plants. The choice must involve more criteria than that.