J.W., thanks for your response. I get the sense that you really love the path you're on, and I think that's great. Regarding my initial message in this thread, it wasn't a query so much as an invitation to discuss some topics. I will continue the discussion here in case there's any interest.
- You are very welcome my friend, and I do share a balance of emotional and logical positive body/mind/spiritual sense from illuminating the path. (no puns intended)
I do apologize for the method I used to discuss, the nature of the thread doesn't allow us to have a face to face communication, and with English not being my native language, sometimes my grammar and communication lacks clarity in it's own projection. My apology, and I do appreciate your patience and correction.
As far as the line above, I am reminded of a quote by Ra in 93.3: "[I]t is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet." I try to remember this whenever I believe I understand the polarity of another individual. I can look at the fruits of the labor of others and attempt to know whether the fruit is positive or negative, but I feel I can't truly know anything at all -- certainly not the polarity of others. This has been an important point for me in my seeking, as sometimes I have found myself at odds with others based on some certainty on my part of their polarity.
What I'm stating is that it is not possible to judge, or even to identify, the true polarity of an individual or an action. Things like polarity percentages are simply a construct given that we can understand. Ra consistently refused to judge polarities, insisting instead that it should be left up to the discernment of each individual. I bring this up because I believe it's a very important point -- especially for seekers.
There seems to exist a judgement culture within the seeking community, a culture that seems to condone judgement of others and their actions. When you state, "'Judging' and 'Identifying' although might share similar characteristic, but are hugely different," I disagree with that, and I don't know that an insistence on such a strong distinction between the two is most useful for a seeker. This brings to mind Ra's statement on protection available to Wanderers (16.59):
- The logical and clarity behind the "judging" and "identifying" or even whatever side you decide to stand on, for example I said there is a difference, and you don't, this in itself is somewhat of a paradox of "duality."
The percentage Ra used was to create a palpable understanding for the mind/body complex we currently operating, the "percentages" also serve as a philosophy or understanding in words. (51% STO) Means more than half of the times, you do things because you want to help others, and not to gain anything.
(95% STS) Means almost all of your interaction/actions with other-selves is to serve or use other-selves to benefit yourself one way another.
This doesn't have a definite "number" or "percentage" and you are correct, but it serves as an image to reflect your "actions" in your incarnation.
I am Ra. As we have said before, Wanderers become completely the creature of third density in mind/body complex. There is just as much chance of such influence to a Wanderer entity as to a mind/body/spirit complex of this planetary sphere. The only difference occurs in the spirit complex which, if it wishes, has an armor of light, if you will, which enables it to recognize more clearly that which is not as it would appropriately be desired by the mind/body/spirit complex. This is not more than a bias and cannot be called an understanding.
Furthermore, the Wanderer is, in its own mind/body/spirit complex, less distorted towards the, shall we say, deviousness of third-density positive/negative confusions. Thus, it often does not recognize as easily as a more negative individual the negative nature of thoughts or beings.
This statement from Ra has really resonated with me. I feel it clarifies that even Wanderers are susceptible and that the "armor of light" that may aid in discernment is "not more than a bias and cannot be called an understanding." I consider this sometimes whenever I feel I am even able to identify the polarity of any self's actions. Something else that resonates with me is the understanding that this third density existence is an illusion and nothing can be known. My thinking that I can identify the polarity of any action may simply get in the way of my advancement, as it's the intuition that proves the more valuable guide than the intellect. Further, Ra's statement suggests to me that if ever I presume negativity on the part of others, I should consider whether negativity on my own part is coloring my interpretation.
How this can be put into practice is this: whenever I feel I know the polarity of another or another's actions, I consider that I cannot truly know. I can guard my own polarity with my armor of light, while also recognizing that my armor is nothing more than some biases and cannot be considered an understanding. As Ra also clarified at one point (16.39):
- So, to further add to what I said about this, and you re-iterating it into your own understanding and perspective. The "Armor" and "biases" comes from the principles of the side you choose. To simply put, and to serve as an example.
A Cop will try to help, because that's his Job and Value.
A Criminal will steal and deceive to gain wealth.
(this is only an example and has nothing to do with our current political feud, or even the ideas of Cops/Criminal, I am only using to this to further explain the biases.)
I also have stated, once you choose a side, "The veil of confusion of what is positive and/or negative will be lifted, at the same time the Illusion of bias will do it's things."
Your Armor blocks bullets, not swords. etc. etc. It is serving you as intended for the opposite force that isn't what you chosen.
I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.
This statement from Ra, with other ponderings, has opened me up to questioning all my own intentions. This openness to questioning has been very helpful for me in my seeking. Taking, for instance, even this response to you. I question my motives behind it. While I hope that it provides some clarity to others and to myself, I must wonder if any of my drives are self-serving; I must consider if I am pursuing a discussion simply because I enjoy being correct; I must consider if my display of fluency on these topics is in some attempt to appease my own vanity.
I believe the nature of polarity is so nuanced that even when one decides upon "STS" or "STO," a careful seeker will leave ample room for questioning of one's own motives. In fact, the more advanced one becomes, the more appropriately advanced will become the challenges. We look at civilizations like Atlantis and, at least in this community, may be aware of some manner of decline that entailed enslavement of others and possibly even cannibalism. We may be quick to impose our current mores on them and feel we never would resort to their vices; however, I believe such a judgement would be careless and even a little naive. The individuals of Atlantis are told to have achieved a level of advancement that, as far as I can tell, is completely foreign to us here. I would suggest that they encountered challenges of discernment that were appropriate for them, and that the level of their supposed negativity may have had a corresponding opposite polarity far beyond what we have achieved.
Reading Hayek, I have come across a very compelling viewpoint that Nazi Germany was made possible, slowly but surely, by socialist agendas -- many of the same that grip my nation and the world today. It's very interesting to me how these ideologies take hold over long periods of time. There are many individuals today who may choose paths thinking that they are doing the most benevolent acts, when actually they are setting the stage for chaos and despair. Similarly, there are many whose discernment in seeking may lead them astray, regardless of how advanced they are or claim to be. This reminds me of a long section in session 80 that concerns adepts
- To say "I know exactly what it is." In a way is correct and incorrect at the same time. The concept of understand, first comes from the self. The following action and "domino" effect of one's action is part of the "catalyst" to one's understanding.
To "misunderstand" "confused" and "mess up" are all just "perspective" and "judgement" and "identification" from the observer. The "situation" or "coincidences" in itself serves many purposes than just for the "understanding" of those that are "involved."
I understand my previous post came off as "Q&A" but I would suggest you re-visiting it (at your convenience) to further dissect the "danger/hindrance" of energy/souls that are "awakening" and could be susceptible in being caught up with confusion and the maelstrom of ... "Wait, so what's good and whats bad? Wait, this action is selfish or not?" "Hold up, if this action was to help the greater number or betterment of mankind, then.. its not bad, right?"
I used Adolf Hitler as an example of such entity who was caught up in where he "went" wrong in choosing the polarity and now requires extensive "healing" and "revaluation of it's action during it's incarnation." So it could be free from the confusion.
80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.
As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?
Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.
The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.
80.10 Questioner: Now, the fifteenth archetype, which is the Matrix of the Spirit, has been called the Devil. Can you tell me why that is so?
Ra: I am Ra. We do not wish to be facile in such a central query, but we may note that the nature of the spirit is so infinitely subtle that the fructifying influence of light upon the great darkness of the spirit is very often not as apparent as the darkness itself. The progress chosen by many adepts becomes a confused path as each adept attempts to use the Catalyst of the Spirit. Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun. By far, the majority of adepts remain groping in the moonlight and, as we have said, this light can deceive as well as uncover hidden mystery. Therefore, the melody, shall we say, of this matrix often seems to be of a negative and evil, as you would call it, nature.
It is also to be noted that an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves. Whether this is done for service to others or service to self, it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. This freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. The magic is recognized; the nature is often not.
These statements from Ra hold so much meaning, and I would suggest that seekers and would-be-adepts consider them carefully. It seems particularly cautionary when Ra states, "Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun. By far, the majority of adepts remain groping in the moonlight and, as we have said, this light can deceive as well as uncover hidden mystery." I believe this to be a message that concerns adepts specifically, as they should be aware that their grasping may be nothing more than "groping in the moonlight."
I concede that my opinions on this may influence others, and I'm okay with that. What I am less okay with is proposing to others what the polarity of their actions is. I think striving for "100% STO" in this density at this time is not practicable. I think considering polarities in terms of percentages can be nothing more than a bane. I think when it comes to decisions like whether to accept money for services offered, which the question from happy tears concerns ("How does one sustain themselves physically without feeling like they're ripping people off?"), it can be left exclusively to one's own discernment. And I suggest taking this viewpoint to the extreme, to the extent that the polarity of even some violence is debatable.
Again, no queries here. Just an invitation to discuss some topics. Thanks, fellow seekers!
- The influence and direction of the post are neutral as in the information of both side, The bias of the direction and my influence is... Bias, I have apologized about this, but I apologize to the fact that my choices of vibration/word is bias from the "principles" and choices of positive polarity,
There are also clear "disclosure" and "letting you know" that your choices on how you perceive the information as in "resonance" and/or "perception" are all based on you and you alone. No one can "tells" you other than yourself to give your freewill to decide.
I really enjoyed our exchange and the points you have made/contributed.
I believe that you are hung up on whether "yours", and/or "others"
-Choices
-Perspective
-Influence
-Speech
-Words
-Bias
-Judgement on self/others
are all in a way... "pointless" because the experience that the "self" in "itself" is bias. This falls under an almost "infinitely" subjective/objective discussion, and exactly what "philosophy" is all about, I sense with my intuition that you are a student and has a strong orientation to the disciplinary study of "philosophy."
I love Philosophy, and are very entertained with the nature of it, it is like playing badminton, or table tennis, or tennis!
The ball/subject will be in a constant motion of being bounced back and forth. It is fun, but be weary of the "paradox" and "loop" that it creates, it has been a pleasure, fellow Wanderer/seeker/light.
With this, all I can say is that, as always, with love and with light my friend, and may the light guides you on your journey.
- You are very welcome my friend, and I do share a balance of emotional and logical positive body/mind/spiritual sense from illuminating the path. (no puns intended)
I do apologize for the method I used to discuss, the nature of the thread doesn't allow us to have a face to face communication, and with English not being my native language, sometimes my grammar and communication lacks clarity in it's own projection. My apology, and I do appreciate your patience and correction.
As far as the line above, I am reminded of a quote by Ra in 93.3: "[I]t is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet." I try to remember this whenever I believe I understand the polarity of another individual. I can look at the fruits of the labor of others and attempt to know whether the fruit is positive or negative, but I feel I can't truly know anything at all -- certainly not the polarity of others. This has been an important point for me in my seeking, as sometimes I have found myself at odds with others based on some certainty on my part of their polarity.
What I'm stating is that it is not possible to judge, or even to identify, the true polarity of an individual or an action. Things like polarity percentages are simply a construct given that we can understand. Ra consistently refused to judge polarities, insisting instead that it should be left up to the discernment of each individual. I bring this up because I believe it's a very important point -- especially for seekers.
There seems to exist a judgement culture within the seeking community, a culture that seems to condone judgement of others and their actions. When you state, "'Judging' and 'Identifying' although might share similar characteristic, but are hugely different," I disagree with that, and I don't know that an insistence on such a strong distinction between the two is most useful for a seeker. This brings to mind Ra's statement on protection available to Wanderers (16.59):
- The logical and clarity behind the "judging" and "identifying" or even whatever side you decide to stand on, for example I said there is a difference, and you don't, this in itself is somewhat of a paradox of "duality."
The percentage Ra used was to create a palpable understanding for the mind/body complex we currently operating, the "percentages" also serve as a philosophy or understanding in words. (51% STO) Means more than half of the times, you do things because you want to help others, and not to gain anything.
(95% STS) Means almost all of your interaction/actions with other-selves is to serve or use other-selves to benefit yourself one way another.
This doesn't have a definite "number" or "percentage" and you are correct, but it serves as an image to reflect your "actions" in your incarnation.
I am Ra. As we have said before, Wanderers become completely the creature of third density in mind/body complex. There is just as much chance of such influence to a Wanderer entity as to a mind/body/spirit complex of this planetary sphere. The only difference occurs in the spirit complex which, if it wishes, has an armor of light, if you will, which enables it to recognize more clearly that which is not as it would appropriately be desired by the mind/body/spirit complex. This is not more than a bias and cannot be called an understanding.
Furthermore, the Wanderer is, in its own mind/body/spirit complex, less distorted towards the, shall we say, deviousness of third-density positive/negative confusions. Thus, it often does not recognize as easily as a more negative individual the negative nature of thoughts or beings.
This statement from Ra has really resonated with me. I feel it clarifies that even Wanderers are susceptible and that the "armor of light" that may aid in discernment is "not more than a bias and cannot be called an understanding." I consider this sometimes whenever I feel I am even able to identify the polarity of any self's actions. Something else that resonates with me is the understanding that this third density existence is an illusion and nothing can be known. My thinking that I can identify the polarity of any action may simply get in the way of my advancement, as it's the intuition that proves the more valuable guide than the intellect. Further, Ra's statement suggests to me that if ever I presume negativity on the part of others, I should consider whether negativity on my own part is coloring my interpretation.
How this can be put into practice is this: whenever I feel I know the polarity of another or another's actions, I consider that I cannot truly know. I can guard my own polarity with my armor of light, while also recognizing that my armor is nothing more than some biases and cannot be considered an understanding. As Ra also clarified at one point (16.39):
- So, to further add to what I said about this, and you re-iterating it into your own understanding and perspective. The "Armor" and "biases" comes from the principles of the side you choose. To simply put, and to serve as an example.
A Cop will try to help, because that's his Job and Value.
A Criminal will steal and deceive to gain wealth.
(this is only an example and has nothing to do with our current political feud, or even the ideas of Cops/Criminal, I am only using to this to further explain the biases.)
I also have stated, once you choose a side, "The veil of confusion of what is positive and/or negative will be lifted, at the same time the Illusion of bias will do it's things."
Your Armor blocks bullets, not swords. etc. etc. It is serving you as intended for the opposite force that isn't what you chosen.
I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.
This statement from Ra, with other ponderings, has opened me up to questioning all my own intentions. This openness to questioning has been very helpful for me in my seeking. Taking, for instance, even this response to you. I question my motives behind it. While I hope that it provides some clarity to others and to myself, I must wonder if any of my drives are self-serving; I must consider if I am pursuing a discussion simply because I enjoy being correct; I must consider if my display of fluency on these topics is in some attempt to appease my own vanity.
I believe the nature of polarity is so nuanced that even when one decides upon "STS" or "STO," a careful seeker will leave ample room for questioning of one's own motives. In fact, the more advanced one becomes, the more appropriately advanced will become the challenges. We look at civilizations like Atlantis and, at least in this community, may be aware of some manner of decline that entailed enslavement of others and possibly even cannibalism. We may be quick to impose our current mores on them and feel we never would resort to their vices; however, I believe such a judgement would be careless and even a little naive. The individuals of Atlantis are told to have achieved a level of advancement that, as far as I can tell, is completely foreign to us here. I would suggest that they encountered challenges of discernment that were appropriate for them, and that the level of their supposed negativity may have had a corresponding opposite polarity far beyond what we have achieved.
Reading Hayek, I have come across a very compelling viewpoint that Nazi Germany was made possible, slowly but surely, by socialist agendas -- many of the same that grip my nation and the world today. It's very interesting to me how these ideologies take hold over long periods of time. There are many individuals today who may choose paths thinking that they are doing the most benevolent acts, when actually they are setting the stage for chaos and despair. Similarly, there are many whose discernment in seeking may lead them astray, regardless of how advanced they are or claim to be. This reminds me of a long section in session 80 that concerns adepts
- To say "I know exactly what it is." In a way is correct and incorrect at the same time. The concept of understand, first comes from the self. The following action and "domino" effect of one's action is part of the "catalyst" to one's understanding.
To "misunderstand" "confused" and "mess up" are all just "perspective" and "judgement" and "identification" from the observer. The "situation" or "coincidences" in itself serves many purposes than just for the "understanding" of those that are "involved."
I understand my previous post came off as "Q&A" but I would suggest you re-visiting it (at your convenience) to further dissect the "danger/hindrance" of energy/souls that are "awakening" and could be susceptible in being caught up with confusion and the maelstrom of ... "Wait, so what's good and whats bad? Wait, this action is selfish or not?" "Hold up, if this action was to help the greater number or betterment of mankind, then.. its not bad, right?"
I used Adolf Hitler as an example of such entity who was caught up in where he "went" wrong in choosing the polarity and now requires extensive "healing" and "revaluation of it's action during it's incarnation." So it could be free from the confusion.
80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.
As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?
Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.
The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.
80.10 Questioner: Now, the fifteenth archetype, which is the Matrix of the Spirit, has been called the Devil. Can you tell me why that is so?
Ra: I am Ra. We do not wish to be facile in such a central query, but we may note that the nature of the spirit is so infinitely subtle that the fructifying influence of light upon the great darkness of the spirit is very often not as apparent as the darkness itself. The progress chosen by many adepts becomes a confused path as each adept attempts to use the Catalyst of the Spirit. Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun. By far, the majority of adepts remain groping in the moonlight and, as we have said, this light can deceive as well as uncover hidden mystery. Therefore, the melody, shall we say, of this matrix often seems to be of a negative and evil, as you would call it, nature.
It is also to be noted that an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves. Whether this is done for service to others or service to self, it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. This freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. The magic is recognized; the nature is often not.
These statements from Ra hold so much meaning, and I would suggest that seekers and would-be-adepts consider them carefully. It seems particularly cautionary when Ra states, "Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun. By far, the majority of adepts remain groping in the moonlight and, as we have said, this light can deceive as well as uncover hidden mystery." I believe this to be a message that concerns adepts specifically, as they should be aware that their grasping may be nothing more than "groping in the moonlight."
I concede that my opinions on this may influence others, and I'm okay with that. What I am less okay with is proposing to others what the polarity of their actions is. I think striving for "100% STO" in this density at this time is not practicable. I think considering polarities in terms of percentages can be nothing more than a bane. I think when it comes to decisions like whether to accept money for services offered, which the question from happy tears concerns ("How does one sustain themselves physically without feeling like they're ripping people off?"), it can be left exclusively to one's own discernment. And I suggest taking this viewpoint to the extreme, to the extent that the polarity of even some violence is debatable.
Again, no queries here. Just an invitation to discuss some topics. Thanks, fellow seekers!
- The influence and direction of the post are neutral as in the information of both side, The bias of the direction and my influence is... Bias, I have apologized about this, but I apologize to the fact that my choices of vibration/word is bias from the "principles" and choices of positive polarity,
There are also clear "disclosure" and "letting you know" that your choices on how you perceive the information as in "resonance" and/or "perception" are all based on you and you alone. No one can "tells" you other than yourself to give your freewill to decide.
I really enjoyed our exchange and the points you have made/contributed.
I believe that you are hung up on whether "yours", and/or "others"
-Choices
-Perspective
-Influence
-Speech
-Words
-Bias
-Judgement on self/others
are all in a way... "pointless" because the experience that the "self" in "itself" is bias. This falls under an almost "infinitely" subjective/objective discussion, and exactly what "philosophy" is all about, I sense with my intuition that you are a student and has a strong orientation to the disciplinary study of "philosophy."
I love Philosophy, and are very entertained with the nature of it, it is like playing badminton, or table tennis, or tennis!
The ball/subject will be in a constant motion of being bounced back and forth. It is fun, but be weary of the "paradox" and "loop" that it creates, it has been a pleasure, fellow Wanderer/seeker/light.
With this, all I can say is that, as always, with love and with light my friend, and may the light guides you on your journey.
![[+]](https://www.bring4th.org/forums/images/collapse_collapsed.png)