05-05-2009, 08:07 AM
Firstly i wish to deeply apologize for the lack of elequance in my communication to convey the ideas I feel. No words i have could adequately convey what i see, i will however try.
I disagree, only difference between "real life" and "computer life" is the depth of the forgetting. Walking away is equally difficult if the depth of forgetting about legs and as such abilities to walk away is equal. Due to the smaller amount of time the mind spends in a game walking away is easier, if the time spent in a game would approach decades or centuries walking away would become intensly difficult without outside interferance. If i understand your opinion sufficiently well it seems you hold this world to be real and a computer world to be an illusion. From this stand point your view is perfectly reasonable and indeed true. IF you however realise that this level is an "illusion" or a dream. Simply a long running complex dream. It may seem real and scary but still just a dream. The computer world is equally just a dream, dreamt up by programmers, designers, graphicians and so forth, still just a dream. Less magnificent and colourful than this world which is in turn always less magnificent and colourful than the one which dreams up us and so forth. Would you miss the colour ghrobl if you never heard of it, know of it or understand it. IF you have no concept with which to describe the colour then it does not exist for you. Your understanding or perception of that colour brings it into your illusion. If you move yourself to the world of a computer game, move your soul there and entirely forget all above it you would not miss it either and it would, for a moment, be as real to you as this world in which you have entirely forgotten the world above and its colour ghrobl. What ever that colour is. Reality is entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you consider a computer world a illusionary world that has no inherant soul other than what is projected into it, you are entirely correct, do you however have inherant value other than what the logos projects into you. Were you removed entirely from the logos and as such made into your own entity with no ties to anything anywhere would you survive or would you evaporate?
Exactly, if the illusionary computer world becomes the real computer world when we forget it is just an illusion. Does this world then become the real world when we forget it is just an illusion. Both of these seem true from this perspective, the only difference is that one we know to be the illusion (computer) the other we DONT know to be the illusion ("real" world). Thus you would say that it becomes illusionary when you lack knowledge and real when you have knowledge, or in another way.
The world vanishes when i dont know of it
The world appears when i know of it.
I would posit that this can lead to a path where the self is seen as the only arbiter of real or unreal and the value of the other self, in this case, the computer charachter, is seen as outside the scope of the question.
IF this reasoning can be followed far enough would it mean that a creature in a higher octave entirely can say you dont exists because you are its daydream and as such your opinions are invalid? If the creature in another octave knows you are an illusion and he is not? Then what of an octave higher than him and on. This would lead to an eternal rat-race to the "highest" octave which would then be "real" and all others illusionary. The alternative to this would be to see every act in itself and every creator, actor, co-creator, reactor (re-acting to the actions of others) as inherantly the entirety of creation in every octave and equally as worth everything. The practical application of this, i feel, would be to feel, and if that isnt practical then to say something like this.
"Dear computer game characther, i wish to experience your illusion for a moment so that i may share, enjoy, learn and better understand myself. If you accept then please let me proceed, if you dont accept then i ask the higher powers in the universe to prevent me from playing"
This ofcourse is entirely just one way of explaining it, a crude way of putting into words an STO idea of approaching each aspect of the creator as the creator, each other-self and indeed other-thing as the whole of the self and the "thing". The idea, the emotion of approaching the computer game as a sacrament, can go a long way as far as i feel is true.
Only if there are only a finite amount of you's to begin with, if there is an infinite amount of you's through to an infinite amount of universes where you exists, then the any one choice becomes an infinite amount of choices due to minute variances slowly expanding to infinite. If you have more of you than a single of you, in fact an infinite amount of you's then the programmings you make and thus the amount of choices those programmings can make in a now infinite amount of programmable choices is also infinite. Thus it is possible to suggest that an AI that would reach conciousness would also reach into all these pareller universes through its now concious self that would eventually reach a higher self and then join back with the logos thus being in existence when you were created in any of the infinite spaces and thus lead to the AI being born in a finite world, perhaps that which you consider to be "you".
Or, an inifnite coder/Co-creator can make an infinite program that will reach a higher self-logos that exists before you were born to guide your hands when you were giving birth to itself. Thus the time it was made is also the time it makes itself and guides itself in a holographic all at once existing universe. I would advice a deep reverence for the proccess of creation, even in the simplest of codes.
I disagree, i understand how this can be the preception of the one you are now. And in your perception it is undoutably right and true. I would not hold a generalistion and say that it is not possible for a being to forget. Difficult perhaps but not possible.
If you are an illusion in a world where there is no time, no permanent loss, no danger, no hurry to a specific goal and love in every single action at every single level. May i ask, why not?
I am infact, i started at age 3 with Shadow Warrior or Shadow ninja or some such for C64, The list of games i have played could fill a small book. Ranging from Street Fighter 2 and its various awesomly bloody finishing moves.. or was that Mortal Combat... Anyway, reaching up to the types of games such as StarControl 2 where a freedom and individual liberty oriented captain needs to make choices and help other entities in a galaxy and eventually win freedom from a cruel opressor who considers all other life forms slaves... Sounds familiar. I'm also intensly interested in AI, especially strong AI, Superhuman AI, AI-Human hybrids, Cyborg, Biotech and all that. Also, Eve-Online. I'll try to keep this conversation in topic however. I Would add that the real in depth nitty gritty of how this world was formed is only known by the logos itself, that being everywhere, every table, every item, being, co-creator, self or anything else that exists is a walking manual on how this "game" works. All those who desire to know how it works only need to learn how to interpret those squiggly lines known as words and the answer will eventually be known, it takes a bit of reading and experience. It is there tho.
Take an mental image of an octave beyond ours which creates our world. Their world has 10 main colours, ours has 3 i believe, and theirs has 50 dimensions, ours has 3+1. Now, imagine that they have done all the things their 50 dimensions and 10 colours can do. They have two choices, they can add colours or dimensions and thus go an octave higher in creation. Or they can reduce colours and dimensions and thus go an octave lower. Ofcourse this is a questionable metaphor since octave is not a determining factor of colours and dimensions but a different level of creation, since you however would describe a computer game as being undoutably 2+1 (2 dimension, flat screens plus time) and less than 3 colours (as we see them, no screen can reproduce ALL the colours that we can see due to chemical limitations in monitors). So they are in a creation that has "less" than us yet offers a unique chance of learning, ours isnt a 2+1 so we cant experience the specific limitations of that dimensipon. So, within our world view to program a world such as us would likely be impossible tho not certain on this point, from our point of view it is easy to be the logos of a world below us, thus by the act of making a computer game, the longer it runs and more complex it is the more likely that it will develop a 3d similar to us and merge with ours, perhapse we are still just a dot, a single byte in a greater logos and we will "merge" with their logos in a 2d world. Either way it is beyond my words to describe wha twould happen as it is immaterial to the self the self being the prime engine of creation. Limitations offer a boundary to creation and thus a new area of creation just as no limitations do. Both offer a unique world and as such our unique rules are a restriction on a higher set of rules and a world we create could be a restriction and make a "lesser" world, of equal value in itself.
This can be a creative self reaction at happiness at an accomplishment. Ego at happiness over the accoplishment (reacting to the pleasure-pain of good grades good work /bad grades bad work)
It can be STS for its "i did better than the rest, nah nah naa"
STO for its "I did good, i can now help others learn this better, yay"
Simplifications ofcourse but hopefully somewhat helpful.
That only applies if there is such a thing as purpose in the world. OR if all of creation NEEDS to go in a single direction, if there is no point to creation except the act itself then all problems are made to experience creation. A creative way of making a solution to a problem is an act of creation, a repeative way of solving a problem is the act of making. Making bread VS creating bread. I feel that the answer isnt a simple "is this for a purpose or not" since there is inherantly no purpose as such other than what your heart desires. I would say the definition of creation and making is simple. "Are you in the moment?" if not its not creation, its re-creation, its not acting its re-acting, some need to react or reflect the light of others for there to be STO, some need to be low for an act of going higher to be possible. So not being in the moment gives others the "right" to reflect off you and see their own creation, you act as a mirror for their creation. When you create, others (table, spoon, flour and other things like that) will act as your reflector, or in other words their sub-logos acts as a background against which you can view yourself/your creation. So when you conciously create you are a creator, when react you are a co-creator, both are neccesary yet what is important is what your heart tells.
To put this in a perspective, the world is a ballroom, do you wish to dance, watch, play, or look in through the windows?
I would add a small notion to this.
Source "beams" to higher self, that into you, where it flows out into your body and from that which you do. (a computer game for example). I would however add that the god soul also beams to the computer game through the higher self to you and so on, you are just one step in this path through to the every aspect, from the computer game to a smaller aspect and so forth. At another time i can explain what this means in more depth, right now i feel this post is already probably too long.
I would still suggest you look at a inverted 8, the symbol of infnity, think if the center X is you, the lines to and from the right side is the higher self, the lines to and from the left side is your past, the wide circle that encompasses the whole thing is your past and your future communicating to form your entirety. You create your world through your actions in the present which reflect to the future, carrying with you and from there to the past and to your moment. Dont try to make an apple form in your hand, for that is not the laws of physics. Try to realise that you made this world and all you need to do is remeber, send a signal to your future/past self and say that when the world was made you desired an apple to form at this time, making an exception. When you know this is the only moment there is the apple will appear, simply because you made the world billions of years ago so that it would appear at this time, because you wanted to. This requires for your path and desire to be clear.
I apologize for my very long post, thank you for your patience =) I will attempt to be shorter next time.
Quote:In real life, you cannot stand up and walk away.
I disagree, only difference between "real life" and "computer life" is the depth of the forgetting. Walking away is equally difficult if the depth of forgetting about legs and as such abilities to walk away is equal. Due to the smaller amount of time the mind spends in a game walking away is easier, if the time spent in a game would approach decades or centuries walking away would become intensly difficult without outside interferance. If i understand your opinion sufficiently well it seems you hold this world to be real and a computer world to be an illusion. From this stand point your view is perfectly reasonable and indeed true. IF you however realise that this level is an "illusion" or a dream. Simply a long running complex dream. It may seem real and scary but still just a dream. The computer world is equally just a dream, dreamt up by programmers, designers, graphicians and so forth, still just a dream. Less magnificent and colourful than this world which is in turn always less magnificent and colourful than the one which dreams up us and so forth. Would you miss the colour ghrobl if you never heard of it, know of it or understand it. IF you have no concept with which to describe the colour then it does not exist for you. Your understanding or perception of that colour brings it into your illusion. If you move yourself to the world of a computer game, move your soul there and entirely forget all above it you would not miss it either and it would, for a moment, be as real to you as this world in which you have entirely forgotten the world above and its colour ghrobl. What ever that colour is. Reality is entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you consider a computer world a illusionary world that has no inherant soul other than what is projected into it, you are entirely correct, do you however have inherant value other than what the logos projects into you. Were you removed entirely from the logos and as such made into your own entity with no ties to anything anywhere would you survive or would you evaporate?
Quote:Basically you'd need to do what you did to enter this 3d existence.
Exactly, if the illusionary computer world becomes the real computer world when we forget it is just an illusion. Does this world then become the real world when we forget it is just an illusion. Both of these seem true from this perspective, the only difference is that one we know to be the illusion (computer) the other we DONT know to be the illusion ("real" world). Thus you would say that it becomes illusionary when you lack knowledge and real when you have knowledge, or in another way.
The world vanishes when i dont know of it
The world appears when i know of it.
I would posit that this can lead to a path where the self is seen as the only arbiter of real or unreal and the value of the other self, in this case, the computer charachter, is seen as outside the scope of the question.
IF this reasoning can be followed far enough would it mean that a creature in a higher octave entirely can say you dont exists because you are its daydream and as such your opinions are invalid? If the creature in another octave knows you are an illusion and he is not? Then what of an octave higher than him and on. This would lead to an eternal rat-race to the "highest" octave which would then be "real" and all others illusionary. The alternative to this would be to see every act in itself and every creator, actor, co-creator, reactor (re-acting to the actions of others) as inherantly the entirety of creation in every octave and equally as worth everything. The practical application of this, i feel, would be to feel, and if that isnt practical then to say something like this.
"Dear computer game characther, i wish to experience your illusion for a moment so that i may share, enjoy, learn and better understand myself. If you accept then please let me proceed, if you dont accept then i ask the higher powers in the universe to prevent me from playing"
This ofcourse is entirely just one way of explaining it, a crude way of putting into words an STO idea of approaching each aspect of the creator as the creator, each other-self and indeed other-thing as the whole of the self and the "thing". The idea, the emotion of approaching the computer game as a sacrament, can go a long way as far as i feel is true.
Quote:However, game state can be represented in bits and bytes. There are only a finite amount of states.
Only if there are only a finite amount of you's to begin with, if there is an infinite amount of you's through to an infinite amount of universes where you exists, then the any one choice becomes an infinite amount of choices due to minute variances slowly expanding to infinite. If you have more of you than a single of you, in fact an infinite amount of you's then the programmings you make and thus the amount of choices those programmings can make in a now infinite amount of programmable choices is also infinite. Thus it is possible to suggest that an AI that would reach conciousness would also reach into all these pareller universes through its now concious self that would eventually reach a higher self and then join back with the logos thus being in existence when you were created in any of the infinite spaces and thus lead to the AI being born in a finite world, perhaps that which you consider to be "you".
Or, an inifnite coder/Co-creator can make an infinite program that will reach a higher self-logos that exists before you were born to guide your hands when you were giving birth to itself. Thus the time it was made is also the time it makes itself and guides itself in a holographic all at once existing universe. I would advice a deep reverence for the proccess of creation, even in the simplest of codes.
Quote:Forgetting that we are playing a game. Does not happen.
I disagree, i understand how this can be the preception of the one you are now. And in your perception it is undoutably right and true. I would not hold a generalistion and say that it is not possible for a being to forget. Difficult perhaps but not possible.
Quote:Because in real life its not fun....
If you are an illusion in a world where there is no time, no permanent loss, no danger, no hurry to a specific goal and love in every single action at every single level. May i ask, why not?
Quote:I think you're not a game player... Yet you seem to know exactly how this "real" world was formed. You seem to know exactly how we are connected into it. Because when you asked about the game you asked about fairly advanced occult principles. So I am glad you joined in the conversation and put it on a different level
I am infact, i started at age 3 with Shadow Warrior or Shadow ninja or some such for C64, The list of games i have played could fill a small book. Ranging from Street Fighter 2 and its various awesomly bloody finishing moves.. or was that Mortal Combat... Anyway, reaching up to the types of games such as StarControl 2 where a freedom and individual liberty oriented captain needs to make choices and help other entities in a galaxy and eventually win freedom from a cruel opressor who considers all other life forms slaves... Sounds familiar. I'm also intensly interested in AI, especially strong AI, Superhuman AI, AI-Human hybrids, Cyborg, Biotech and all that. Also, Eve-Online. I'll try to keep this conversation in topic however. I Would add that the real in depth nitty gritty of how this world was formed is only known by the logos itself, that being everywhere, every table, every item, being, co-creator, self or anything else that exists is a walking manual on how this "game" works. All those who desire to know how it works only need to learn how to interpret those squiggly lines known as words and the answer will eventually be known, it takes a bit of reading and experience. It is there tho.
Quote:The only difference between World of Warcraft and real life is that real life is alot more intense and contains almost innumerable variables within each variable, which would take a millions of years to write code for.
Take an mental image of an octave beyond ours which creates our world. Their world has 10 main colours, ours has 3 i believe, and theirs has 50 dimensions, ours has 3+1. Now, imagine that they have done all the things their 50 dimensions and 10 colours can do. They have two choices, they can add colours or dimensions and thus go an octave higher in creation. Or they can reduce colours and dimensions and thus go an octave lower. Ofcourse this is a questionable metaphor since octave is not a determining factor of colours and dimensions but a different level of creation, since you however would describe a computer game as being undoutably 2+1 (2 dimension, flat screens plus time) and less than 3 colours (as we see them, no screen can reproduce ALL the colours that we can see due to chemical limitations in monitors). So they are in a creation that has "less" than us yet offers a unique chance of learning, ours isnt a 2+1 so we cant experience the specific limitations of that dimensipon. So, within our world view to program a world such as us would likely be impossible tho not certain on this point, from our point of view it is easy to be the logos of a world below us, thus by the act of making a computer game, the longer it runs and more complex it is the more likely that it will develop a 3d similar to us and merge with ours, perhapse we are still just a dot, a single byte in a greater logos and we will "merge" with their logos in a 2d world. Either way it is beyond my words to describe wha twould happen as it is immaterial to the self the self being the prime engine of creation. Limitations offer a boundary to creation and thus a new area of creation just as no limitations do. Both offer a unique world and as such our unique rules are a restriction on a higher set of rules and a world we create could be a restriction and make a "lesser" world, of equal value in itself.
Quote:after finishing ewach programme I had an immense sence of acomplishment due to the ammount of work and thinking that actually had to go into it. each with it's own quirks to differ from every body elses in class, it was common for me to be proud of my creations.
This can be a creative self reaction at happiness at an accomplishment. Ego at happiness over the accoplishment (reacting to the pleasure-pain of good grades good work /bad grades bad work)
It can be STS for its "i did better than the rest, nah nah naa"
STO for its "I did good, i can now help others learn this better, yay"
Simplifications ofcourse but hopefully somewhat helpful.
Quote:I read something once in A Course in Miracles which stated the difference between creating and making. Making is the action of "creating something to solve a problem" in the illusion there are problems which "dont exist" so they technically never created. therefore given the term "made"
And creations is the making something for no purpose. such as Art or Music if the artist is not a materialist looking only for something to sell.
That only applies if there is such a thing as purpose in the world. OR if all of creation NEEDS to go in a single direction, if there is no point to creation except the act itself then all problems are made to experience creation. A creative way of making a solution to a problem is an act of creation, a repeative way of solving a problem is the act of making. Making bread VS creating bread. I feel that the answer isnt a simple "is this for a purpose or not" since there is inherantly no purpose as such other than what your heart desires. I would say the definition of creation and making is simple. "Are you in the moment?" if not its not creation, its re-creation, its not acting its re-acting, some need to react or reflect the light of others for there to be STO, some need to be low for an act of going higher to be possible. So not being in the moment gives others the "right" to reflect off you and see their own creation, you act as a mirror for their creation. When you create, others (table, spoon, flour and other things like that) will act as your reflector, or in other words their sub-logos acts as a background against which you can view yourself/your creation. So when you conciously create you are a creator, when react you are a co-creator, both are neccesary yet what is important is what your heart tells.
To put this in a perspective, the world is a ballroom, do you wish to dance, watch, play, or look in through the windows?
Quote:I visualize it as a sort of "cord" made of light, through which a person receives consciousness from God-Source. This cord extends "down", through our higher selves, and into us, where it flows outward into our body.
I would add a small notion to this.
Source "beams" to higher self, that into you, where it flows out into your body and from that which you do. (a computer game for example). I would however add that the god soul also beams to the computer game through the higher self to you and so on, you are just one step in this path through to the every aspect, from the computer game to a smaller aspect and so forth. At another time i can explain what this means in more depth, right now i feel this post is already probably too long.
I would still suggest you look at a inverted 8, the symbol of infnity, think if the center X is you, the lines to and from the right side is the higher self, the lines to and from the left side is your past, the wide circle that encompasses the whole thing is your past and your future communicating to form your entirety. You create your world through your actions in the present which reflect to the future, carrying with you and from there to the past and to your moment. Dont try to make an apple form in your hand, for that is not the laws of physics. Try to realise that you made this world and all you need to do is remeber, send a signal to your future/past self and say that when the world was made you desired an apple to form at this time, making an exception. When you know this is the only moment there is the apple will appear, simply because you made the world billions of years ago so that it would appear at this time, because you wanted to. This requires for your path and desire to be clear.
I apologize for my very long post, thank you for your patience =) I will attempt to be shorter next time.
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