(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: I think what you're saying is that by identification we can become one with our game avatars. ... Even then you are not the character of a game world. You are a person outside the gameworld fully immersed in a character in the game world.
This is not my intended meaning... I'm not sure how to communicate my meaning, however, so try to bear with me. I'll try to clarify as best I can. It may be necessary for me to open a thread elsewhere to explain the nature of my own illusion and how I've come to explain/interpret it. After all, we each create our own illusion.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: ... Your mind will always be separate from the game world as it is not a part of the game world but a visitor in it. Basically you don't stop being a player when you become your avatar.
I'm not sure we stop being 4D/5D/6D when we enter this reality. Remember that all things are simultaneous. Time is an illusion that does not exist in this form within the higher realms (as far as we've been told). Just as we do not "stop" being a player when we play a game, I don't think our soul "stops" being our soul when we incarnate. It projects itself into a "machine" body, which doesn't seem all that different from picking up the controller and projecting our will into a video game through it; we need not stop being 3D to do so. Maybe our brain is somewhat like a switchboard, a "controller" of sorts if you will. The 7th chakra is there, through which "higher consciousness" projects into us.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: In real life, you cannot stand up and walk away. If you get hurt then that hurt is all there is, it is not an experience within an experience, it is THE experience. There is a special case where we play war games like paintball or live roleplay or some kind of war based reenactment. (Dodge ball?) In those situations the excitement is real, the "death" is struggled to avoid, but when it comes you just snap out of it and walk out of the game area to await the next round. Even then the immersion in the illusion will not be complete.
However, when we die, doesn't our soul "stand up and walk away?" On that level our soul is not directly hurt by this (although our soul may feel compassion for us), any more than we are hurt from losing a game. This is the essence of what I am trying to say. The perspective I'm using (or trying to use) is not centralized around "us", so to speak. Individualization is present on all levels, in some form or another.
Also, dodgeball is fun! My favorite game from when I was younger.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Now... Let me try to go where you were going. Because I do hear you. There is a certain analogy between the worlds. What would be needed to accomplish this transfer.
We would need to become fully ignorant of our outside reality. As in we'd need a veil of forgetting as we have in this reality.
This is present, I think. Our higher self is aware of us, even though we have forgotten our higher self, just as we are aware of our "video game self", even though it is certainly not aware of us. The consciousness that we channel into the game when we press the "left" button "forgets us" when it reaches the character; the character just moves to the left, no questions asked. But it is certainly acting based on our will.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Basically you'd need to do what you did to enter this 3d existence.
You seem to imply that this is difficult. It may be complex, but not necessarily difficult. The exact mechanics of how one might wave to their best friend, involving muscle movements and complex nerve/brain interactions is very complex, but also very simple to do. To incarnate into 3D reality may actually be almost as simple as picking up a video game controller, at least in a relative sense.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: The other way round you say that the soul of an artificially intelligent agent or an AI might be guiding the hands of the programmer to create himself. Now this is the correct way how our higher selves connected to this world and created these bodies for us to incarnate into. So that notion is certainly applicable.
This may be true, but was not the approach I was taking... My perspective is that our bodies are by nature 3rd Density, and were formed in 3rd Density to operate here. Our soul projects and in a sense "dwells within" this body, a machine made to receive it. Our body cannot live without a soul (without that "spark" the body dies; I remember reading that this is the cause of some spontaneous abortions and such - the soul decides to retract from the fetus when life circumstances change - perhaps if that incarnation is no longer needed), and the soul cannot live in 3rd Density without a body.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: However, game state can be represented in bits and bytes. There are only a finite amount of states. Therefore when a game is compiled ALL seemingly infinite but still finite amount of states the game can contain are already defined at that moment.
This is true. This is a limitation of such crude "artificial" reality. Another limitation is that the "self" we project into the video game character cannot directly "graduate" into the next level directly (ie awaken to "our level" without having to die, win, or otherwise "cease consciousness"). We are capable of this, body and all, because we exist within the "natural illusion", which is all-inclusive. Unfortunately, Mario and Luigi cannot "ride the wave" as we have the opportunity to; at least not as we currently perceive reality. Maybe we're wrong, and they do, hehe. ^_^
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: So you'd need a bridge between the soul and the device. A way for the device to be affected by the soul that is not part of its definition. To put it bluntly you'd need a soul IO port.
The controller serves this purpose just fine. When we press buttons on the controller, is this not under the direction of our soul? Our soul is having a direct influence from within the game, by channeling through us.
That's what we're doing all the time, I think; we are just channeling our souls. If the video game character "channels us" by receiving our commands, it is indirectly channeling our soul. If we follow this thought train to a natural conclusion, we are all indirectly channeling God-Source all the time. When the energy channel emerges into this body, it produces a "singularity of consciousness" - an individualization. However, the energy comes from a place that is as self-conscious as we are. I think this is because the dimensions/densities might create "pinch points", and this is why individualization happens on specific levels and doesn't seem to blend between them so much (the higher levels may be different, though). These last parts are purely my speculation though.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Forgetting that we are playing a game. Does not happen. Therefore killing someone in a game with a triple spin combo followed by sending in the dragons and then jumping on the bits. Is likely to be entertaining to the victim. Since it is entertaining and he does not get hurt in any way. Players try to make a show of this. And hopefully the "victim" gets to repay the favor shortly after. This is an idealized representation but worst case we have to deal with bruised egos.
I think we do forget, but only for minute instances. For tiny, moments, at least, it is possible to completely forget that we are separate from the video game character (this is my personal experience, at least). At these moments, I forget that I am pressing buttons to control the character, and I perform complex actions withing the game without thinking about it.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: In "real" life. It would not be fun at all. With the exception of adepts we are too connected to our real life personas. Only a few of us can be killed and comment on how the killer did this particularly skillfully. Because in real life its not fun....
Some people enjoy war - occasionally even the people who are fighting it! History tells of such people; they say there is a thrill some people get from war that they come to love. They enjoy it because of that chance of death or pain - just like you were saying players enjoy that possibility in games. What you have said is not only limited to games, although it is true that most people do not enjoy pain.
(05-04-2009, 06:47 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: I think you're not a game player... Yet you seem to know exactly how this "real" world was formed. You seem to know exactly how we are connected into it. Because when you asked about the game you asked about fairly advanced occult principles. So I am glad you joined in the conversation and put it on a different level
What makes you think I don't play games? I'm very curious about this one. I do indeed play games; I have gained multiple of my spiritual principles directly and indirectly through these games. I will not argue that they cannot be useful; we are certainly agreed there.
Occult principles? Hmm... I'm not surprised, I suppose, that the things I have learned on my own path match up with occult knowledge, but I wasn't expecting that! Thanks for that; this is the first time I've had outside indication that someone might have come to similar conclusions to mine! Much of these principles hve come to me rapid-fire in the last 2 years Anyway, if we are not meeting minds yet, I think further in-depth discussion should wait until I've posted my introductory thread. There, I will try to provide a good description of my beliefs and how I perceive reality; hopefully, if I can give you enough info to "peer into my illusion", you may be able to understand my perspective on this, if you do not already. Then we can continue a back-and-forth discussion there. I must be careful, since I have ended up in discussions like this while I ignored the discussions of others in the same thread. I'm not so likely to get so over-focused nowadays, but as you can see, I tend to be a person of many words. Very fun discussion so far!
Hkelukka Wrote:As i see it our consiousness is a blob, sort of like a ball of goo on a table, we can "move" it or "focus" it on something. There are different "items" on the table each representing something we can combine with other items so we can "learn". Other blobs are there as well, consider a computer charachter as an "item" if we focus on it and cover it in our "consiousness blob" it becomes a part of us and while inside us it can move just as we do and become concious (for a moment). When it drops and we move somewhere else does it still retain its ability, perhapse a part of us has covered its surface and slowly begins to move it as well. Us enginges of creation, multicolored blobs moving around on a table slowly turning things concious ^_^;
For reference, this is VERY similar to my view of things; I believe that when we pick up an object it becomes as much a part of us as our fingers are. Our will flows out and into it. I visualize it as a sort of "cord" made of light, through which a person receives consciousness from God-Source. This cord extends "down", through our higher selves, and into us, where it flows outward into our body. When I affect something with my body, this conscious Source-connection flows into whatever I am affecting; if I pick up a shovel, there is a flow of conscious energy running from Source, through my higher selves, into me, and out through my arms, into the shovel; thus, for the time that I am using it, that shovel is as alive as the rest of my body, in a certain sense. To me, this has been a beautiful and revealing concept. As far as my own reality is concerned, it has proven accurate so far. When we play a video game or use the computer, I believe that it is no different; our consciousness flows into the machine in a way that is determined by its physical structure and programming, and into the game character or mouse pointer. At that point the character or mouse pointer is a part of us just as the shovel was. Right now, my consciousness (the "beam of light" or "spark of life") is being projected through my hands, into the keyboard, through wires and programs, and into a text box, and will soon be posted, when I project my consciousness through my left mouse button and "Post Reply".
!Viola! I have just incarnated into the internet, and then promptly left! This is the essence of what I mean. This line of thought simply amazes me.
Another interesting example: When someone shoots someone else this consciousness goes through the gun and through the bullet, then affects another human in a rather violent way. The thing is, that people know this on a conceptual level; this is why cops arrest the shooter and not the bullet or the gun. In the end, however, the consciousness all originates at Source; they may as well arrest God!
Hmm... I had better stop. I don't want to end up posting the equivalent of a small novel...
With everything,
sylverone