03-05-2019, 10:22 PM
(03-04-2019, 06:33 PM)anagogy Wrote: I guess I disagree with the initial premise: that the One has organized parameters (which I would define for the purposes of our conversation as planned "limitations" or "structure"). You mentioned abilities like: will, and capacities, like creating, and existing in bliss, but I don't see these as "parameters" (planned structure) so much as simply the natural state, and/or powers, inherent in not collecting into pools of illusory separation. Infinity does have natural attributes simply by virtue of being infinity. Just like a still pond is different from a rippling pond. The image reflected will be different. Unity is simply the opposite of separation or distortion. You wouldn't call the lack of separation a part of planned structure would you? It is more of a natural attribute. You experience disorder, and disharmony, in separation because there is the illusion of moving parts which builds up the illusion of friction as the very thoughtform of separation is the essence of entropy -- the tendency towards disorder rather than order.
I agree that oneness contains attributes (though most eastern spiritual traditions forbid speaking of them for this very reason of confusion). It is infinity though, which is all potential attributes (that doesn't mean all attributes are manifesting at once because that would be a logical contradiction). Light and dark cannot exist in the same place in equal concentrations for example. There is the unnatural (chosen caused attributes) and the super natural (latent uncaused attributes). There is an awareness in unity of that threshold at which Beingness starts to become distorted though. The threshold at which the Light of Truth (Beingness) begins to become "bent", causing a rainbow of distorted Light to occur. And it simply willed an exploration of this threshold. So to say infinity has attributes which surpass a willed limited state, like separation, doesn't contradict the idea that there are natural (again, I wouldn't call it structure) but orders to unity, or intelligent infinity. I would say unity, or intelligent infinity, is a perfect synthesis of order and chaos. It is order because is perfect harmony, but it is chaos because it was not a planned order. It is simply the natural attributes of unity. The uncaused causer. The unmoved mover.
So if I'm not speaking sufficiently clear: there are natural attributes to undistorted unity. But they are not created, they are just mathematical naturalistic qualities inherent in the essence of unity. Separation is the more unnatural attribute which is an exploration of falsity. Truth, or unity, really does have a natural order to it. The attributes we experience in the illusion are a distortion of the Original Attributes. We are perceiving the original attributes poorly, and this gives rise to the illusion. Their reality is derived from the original attributes of undistorted infinity. But the One *DID* just naturally have those attributes. Why do we find those attributes "good" (too good to be true that we must assume it can't just naturally be this way)? Because that is what Go(o)d is! Our very notions of what is good were rigged from the start! They were derived from the original substrates of unity, or nonduality. "God is good". And our concept of good is naturally derived from that unity.
"The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only be activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery."
It cannot be specified by physics, but it may be specified, or clarified, by searching the heart.
It's either that or it is turtles all the way down, my friend! And you will always be looking for that next turtle until you find the uncaused causer (unity as opposed to dis-unity).
anagogy, you have understood precisely what I was saying.
Your claim is that although infinity has attributes, those attributes are inherent in the definition of infinity rather than created. My point is that this may be so, but it's an assumption and therefore may also not be so.
What we seem to be a part of here is a consciousness of infinite creative capacity that does not understand itself and therefore has to create to make sense of itself. If we consider that this is "the whole story", it sounds absurdly suspicious. It implies a lack that this being has to work to remedy! It sounds just like what happens when we are born in 3D and don't know our true nature, having therefore to fumble around creating this and that and experiencing our creations, until we figure out the larger story.
As humans, we are so focused outwards that we miss the real story, which we discover when we finally turn inwards. What if it's the reverse for the Infinite One?
I also don't think that the choice is between "this is all there is" and "turtles all the way down." All I'm suggesting is that there may be another layer of turtles of which the One is not aware, busy as it is focusing inwards on its own creations. Beyond that layer - who knows? But even the existence of that one additional "layer" would recast the entire story into a different perspective. (Not that it would have any impact on us little sparks!)