Jade Wrote:I'm not sure this is true. Ra says their time on Venus was very harmonious and that what causes our "special needs" conditions here on Earth is the many different groups that are coming here to finish out their cycle.
I think we are saying the same thing, that our veil density is not the only significant factor playing a role in our situation. As I understand it, we have the same sun (sub-logos) and we are in the same solar system, which would make me think we have the same veil density. So I used Venus as an example of a planet with the same veil density as us (that's an assumption, due to us having the same sub-logos and being in the same octave and solar system), who yielded a satisfactory harvest, which is why I mentioned that it's not the only factor playing a role in Earth's disharmony and slow progress, but many other factors also, like the example you gave of our different race origins.
Also I don't know if our veil is particularly dense, I vaguely remember reading something of the sort maybe in the Quo material, or elsewhere. Actually I think I read it in the Bartholomew material from Mary Margaret-Moore.
Jade Wrote:I know you've changed your position a bit, but I feel like sharing the main difference between what I choose to eat and what I choose not to eat, for me. The fact is, that plants have developed and evolved to have parts of them consumed, while the rest of the plant thrives. Also, almost all plants have developed a system that requires some symbiosis with a being that can voluntarily move itself to different physical locations, whether that be a seed in a bird's beak, on a deer's fur, or in a primate's digestive system, or pollen on a bee or in the air. I can go out to my garden and harvest an entire meal for myself and not kill anything. Many plants thrive after being harvested - and the plants that we "kill" to eat are usually harvested at the end of their natural life cycle, anyway - they've produced their seed/fruit, and now they live on the hope that something will carry its genes away.
I fully agree with you on this, and it's also fresh and alive, whereas meat is decomposing flesh! I also believe Joel Goldsmith and Prentice Mulford, that eating meat becomes unpalatable at a certain point in ones evolution.
As an aside, I'm quite happy these days changing my mind on things. Our society advocates consistency, even to the point where we shame people who change their views on things.
Diana Wrote:I think you have to really look at the context. The minority here, who were advocating for the animals, may have said things which sparked your disbelief, but the whole thread must be looked at to have a perspective. And you must be willing to give the vegetarian viewpoint an unbiased look. We were talking about things in general, not pointing fingers. Though understand, there is no way of talking about the plight of meat animals without meat-eaters thinking you are pointing fingers even though you are trying to talk generally.
And if you were to read those threads with an unbiased point of view, I think you might recognize that the vegetarians were attacked mercilessly at times (though many of the more offensive posts were deleted). Or pushed and prodded with unethical posts showing stuffed pigs, or steaming meat. It's not unusual. I have been vegetarian since '93, and I couldn't count the times people have joked "I had baby seal for lunch" thinking it's funny. I don't really care what people say, but it does get old and it's so unnecessary.
I hesitate to tell anyone I'm vegan, because the judgments that immediately arise are extreme. Even members here have accused vegans (in general) of being "extremists and zealots." It's simply not true. It's a biased judgment. All Muslims aren't extremists for example. And how many extremists eat meat? So it is a very skewed perspective.
The vegan perspective must be looked at with compassion (and it is absolutely based on compassion). I can see how unaware people will look at the (sensationalized) news and think that the (hypothetical) vegans/animal activists who broke into a testing lab to illegally film the animals were extremists, vigilantes, etc., when the truth was, one of the "activists" got a job there to do just that, and they came in at night after the other employees had gone home. This isn't really hypothetical because I saw a show on the public station of just this. The two who went to the lab at night, and filmed—among other horrors—a rabbit trying to walk on the floor but could only crawl and writhe in a spastic way, full of some chemical being tested, were both crying witnessing all the suffering. They did this so people would see what really happens to these poor animals in hopes of spreading awareness. If people know about the horrors, perhaps they will then make choices about what to buy that don't support torture and killing. Just as you have done.
Yeah, I didn't go that far back in the thread, it was on the last couple of pages where it was implied that meat eaters are pretty much on the STS path... People know themselves, and if you know yourself to be a person of compassion and empathy, such a post is hurtful. It is basically shaming, and when someone is being shamed, they usually go on the attack. From that moment onwards it can only go one way, as it did... Other things like "it's just that the vegan wins on all counts", just turns the situation into "I'm right, you're wrong". Now it's a contest... "win or lose", and it closes the door.
Everyone was also pretty hot under the collar by then, and hurting, so it's easy for me to talk. I can distance myself from it and see what has transpired in a fairly detached way. I agree with you that the vegan viewpoint should be looked at as a viewpoint based on compassion, and I also don't have the answers as to how to open a discussion of this nature without meat eaters feeling judged and shamed. Maybe we should all toughen up, hey? This is a horrific thing which is happening on a very large scale, and I doubt there's a way to bring this to light without very emotional reactions, because no-one wants to think of themselves as being complicit in such horrors.
Anyway, I know the vegans meant well...
rva_jeremy Wrote:the way capitalism has accommodated the lifestyle of conscious consumption is a bit disturbing to me
Western capitalism has moved into very dark territory, devoid of all compassion. I first got a glimpse of it when I read the Amazon article in the New York Times, but I was still to have a personal run-in with this particular brand of capitalism when I took a contract on an American cruise line! Initially I went into shock at what I was seeing and experiencing. It was a climate of fear, but that's a loooong story for another day... I finally got it out of my system now. I became friends with the Platinum photographer onboard, and she called it "concentrated capitalism". She said to me "these people are devils, stop being so outspoken, you've been noticed." I openly called the whole operation criminal.
Then halfway through my contract the story broke in the news that our cruise liner had been intentionally polluting the oceans with a "magic pipe", so I walked into the lab and said "I see we made the news...for all the wrong reasons". My manager immediately shut me up and said "you cannot speak a word of this to anyone, it will land you in a lot of trouble..."
Afterwards, I was wondering if I should put on my whistle blower hat and write an article that exposes the cruise ship industry, but then I saw many have beaten me to it. I doubt I'll ever get the faces of those poor Filipinos out of my head (or their stories), they easily comprise more than 80% of the crew, slave labour working for peanuts... this planet... Any Caucasian Westerner earns more than double than any person of colour from Philippines, Indonesia, India, Mexico etc. for doing exactly the same job, in exactly the same position.
I thought about so many things in the Ra material while I was there, but one quote in particular was quite relevant:
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. Any organization which demands obedience without question upon the basis of relative power is functioning according to the above described plan.