"The [human] species will never learn to co-exist if given total freedom."

[Jade]

Well, Ra had the same veil thickness as us in their third density, so while a very dense veil can certainly create more of a challenge, it's not the only factor playing a role in the situation that there are few to harvest on earth.

I'm not sure this is true. Ra says their time on Venus was very harmonious and that what causes our "special needs" conditions here on Earth is the many different groups that are coming here to finish out their cycle.

The ones who were harvested to your sphere from the sphere known before its dissolution as other names, but to your peoples as Maldek, incarnated, many within your Earth’s surface rather than upon it. The population of your planet contains many various groups harvested from other second-dimension and cycled third-dimension spheres. You are not all one race or background of beginning. The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum.

And yet while their seeking was harmonious, they say less than 20% of their population was harvested.

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%.

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I'm quite happy not taking any position on this for the moment. Biological existence is such, that you have to kill to live, so then it just becomes a matter of which is ethical to kill and which isn't, and while I haven't read the meat thread (glancing at a few posts was enough to see that the apple cart fell over :-), it appears that its not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

I know you've changed your position a bit, but I feel like sharing the main difference between what I choose to eat and what I choose not to eat, for me. The fact is, that plants have developed and evolved to have parts of them consumed, while the rest of the plant thrives. Also, almost all plants have developed a system that requires some symbiosis with a being that can voluntarily move itself to different physical locations, whether that be a seed in a bird's beak, on a deer's fur, or in a primate's digestive system, or pollen on a bee or in the air. I can go out to my garden and harvest an entire meal for myself and not kill anything. Many plants thrive after being harvested - and the plants that we "kill" to eat are usually harvested at the end of their natural life cycle, anyway - they've produced their seed/fruit, and now they live on the hope that something will carry its genes away.

Obviously, humans aren't pooping in the dirt so this natural, ideal cycle of symbiosis is also altered. However, some plants have upped their game and are being cultivated by humans! What an amazing turn of luck for a being that directly solicits the help of other beings to help it procreate. Cows never asked for our help in the same way - even as domesticated as they are, you can let a herd of cows free range for years without any requirement of human intervention to help them thrive.

I would say that 99.99% of the meat that's killed in the developed world is killed unethically. Factory farms are a horror. Factory crop farms are also a horror show for the beings who live there, but if you had to choose a job, I think there is a definitely a tangible difference in the amount of suffering one would experience in each place. Also, just by reducing animal farms we reduce crop farms at a multiple rate - because the energy conversion from plant to animal to animal is quite low, we have to grow WAY more crops so that we can grow bacon.

it almost seems like the personal activism is a way to deter real political action that could make a difference.

Blame that one the thickness of the illusion. What else is there in our "singular" version of existence but personal responsibility?

(And for what it's worth, most of the "industrial pollution" in the US is from factory farms...)

And speaking of, I buy toilet paper from 100% recycled sources, whatever that's worth! I make an effort at conscious consumption of almost everything. I definitely do not think that plants are here to be exploited and that animals are only meant to be companions. The point I'm making is that plants have evolved for billions of years working alongside animals but animals have not evolved for very long at all alongside humans - and so far we've done a HORRIBLE job of nurturing the symbiosis that could be developed. We are parasites to the animals we have domesticated. This goes even beyond factory farming. If a snake corralled a wild bird and kept it near its den so that it could eat the egg it lays every day, would we believe that bird led a happy life? What about puppy mills that breed designer dogs that wind up in kill shelters? Yes, there needs to be a huge shift in how humans deal with second density life across the board, and for that matter how we deal with third density life too. But, the idea that since giant, sweeping changes need to be made, so personal responsibility is a cop out, is quite twisted. I thought the whole point was to make personal decisions in spite of, and in the face of society telling you that it's pointless and hopeless, and that the actions of One are meaningless.