Inert / Private / Neutral / thoughts or actions, do they exist?

[Ali Quadir]

If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

Do you think those people who long to get better are at a level where they're consciously co-creating their reality? Or do you think they limit themselves by believing in a three dimensional way that a medicine or time will heal them? Instead of embracing that power to change their experience, they're putting it outside themselves in some other perceived force.

I believe that possibly the biggest portion of humanity does not limit themselves to a three dimensional medicine system.. Lets be honest, the medicine system we're talking about exists pretty much only in the rich world in the recent past. Most of humanity is and has always been assisted by a wide variety of faith healing.

Modern medicine came about as a result of those systems not being perceived to be sufficient. If faith healing was better. Then the initial highly inefficient forms of medicine would not have been considered reliable enough to risk your life on.

Clearly our natural healing response was not enough we developed into a specific direction. Society is just the emergent property of our individual choices. We can't put the blame outside of ourselves.

I'm not saying there is nothing to this. I think the model of man we're working from here. Where intellectual conscious thoughts and feelings are equated to that part of us that truly does create our future. And it's just not so. Or everyone would be doing it. It would be the most obvious to try. It's our natural instinct to reason things into being.

In a way modern medicine is a surrender to this belief. The spirit of the organism is often not included or even recognized in the healing process.

And yet at the very least it clearly competes with the best forms of faith healing out there. In the sheer amount of suffering it alleviates.

If it's not thoughts that manifest reality, then what is it? Or do you mean a person's thoughts don't create their own experience, and instead something else does? In other words, that people don't create for themselves, but a higher power does.

Also, which life forms do you think have no thoughts?

Well since thoughts, like words are symbols, only on a deeper level. All non symbolic life forms have no thoughts. Yes they have consciousness and awareness, a will and creative power even. But they do not convert their stream of consciousness into an inner symbolic dialogue of thought. Most do not have the need. We happen to do it but it's not all life that does this. 1d and 2d lifeforms mostly wont... Yet they are creators too. The creator is in all things.

What manifests reality is what you might call the preconceptual self, or light body. It is made up of a series of primordial shapes or archetypes that are expressed into manifestation in your thoughts feelings and reality. This is a very primal version of self. It is recognized by most mystical traditions. And it is not to be mistaken by the auric body which is quite a different thing.

There's aaaaaallll kinds of channeled material that goes into this subject in depth, because it's a huge subject. Q'uo, Bashar, and Kryon just to name a couple, and even some terrestrial sources! Continuing to discuss this subject might drag the thread off topic too, unless we can tie it back into the main thread subject.

Yes, but I question the idea that what they speak about is truly rational thought or more what I think an analogy. By it's very nature all channeled material is conversion of symbolic and sometimes very abstract information into symbols.

And that relates to the topic, people who did telekinesis experiments with a psi wheel will have noticed that it's not about thinking the wheel in a certain direction. The best way to describe it is to just do it. As if you have a muscle somewhere that you're not aware of you sit in front of this thing and it usually just wobbles a bit, then sometimes you feel like you understand it, and as you do the analogy of "contracting the right muscle" the wheel moves.

The lesson here I think is that it's not our conscious thoughts that affect creation it's much more the underlying preconceptual self that determines those outcomes.

So in order to predict how our actions and thoughts influence the reality we live in we should ask how this correlates to that preconceptual self and it's movements.

If thoughts are fully correlated with the preconceptual self then yes it's logical to assume that thoughts influence reality. If the preconceptual self is out of sync with the thoughts then it has no effect.

My feel is that this preconceptual self influences our thought process. So if it is your nature to think that you will be fine money wise and it is no constriction then reality will mirror that, because its congruent with the preconceptual self. If however you read it in a book and continuously forcefeed yourself those thoughts it's not going to make a difference. Because in spite of the conditioning the preconceptual self doesn't identify with it.

True change comes from within and that lies deeper than our conceptual surface. So to take it full circle to Lavazza's comparison to enjoying seeing people fight. Then the thought of people fighting alone isn't going to create people fighting on the street. It also requires the underlying expectation for this to be true, or faith in that mechanism. It requires the preconceptual self to be in congruance.

Any magick school will tell you that in order to do magick there is a phase of doing the work or making the push. And then there is the phase of passively allowing the universe to respond with the requested result. You don't will a thing into being. You create the vacuum in which it naturally manifests, you create a space for it to occupy.

Lavazza and the likes of him is creating the space in public society where people will fight each other for fun and profit. It's not hurting anyone but the participants who also get a great deal of satisfaction and joy from it. Even though they get a lot of bruises their bodies are on the whole healthier than most of ours. Whether it's all good I don't know. But I don't think Lavazza has to worry about his hobby influencing society in such a way to become a far worse place.

Changing the patterns in the lightbody is long term work. It may take months for a change to manifest. But it will from then on have massive effects on our lives. That is what is generally recognized to be our reality generating ability.

So I'm wondering, since most traditions would put it there, if we should take the idea of the creative principle in our thoughts one step further to that preconceptual self that generates our stream of thoughts.