Revised question: Your country in 3D no longer exists when Earth goes 4D ?

[unity100]

Unity gave a brilliant explanation how in this system we are essentially all slaves. But there's a difference between slaves who have big televisions and slaves who have a bed of straw. Being enslaved in the system isn't so much the problem I think, considering how most of us don't even realize its going on. The problem is the unfair distribution.

in my opinion, slavery, is slavery.

but there is a more important catch in this - the wealth of those wealthy in those countries are made a reality by exploitation of the countries they are taking immigrants from, both in the near history of a few centuries earlier, but also throughout this century by use of capitalist domination tools like conglomerates, monopolies, treaties. in the last few decades, exploitation of cheap manpower was also added in the form of outsourcing work to those countries.

naturally some slave who has a big tv is better off than some slave in another country who does not. however, that tv, comes through a chain of slavery and exploitation.

Socialism usually entered those countries after this flow of wealth had started. It should be seen as an attempt by the people to get some of the wealth back...

left wing ideas have been able to stage revolutions in countries which have been exploited to extreme, like eastern europe (thousand year of worse than slavery feudal serfdom, contrary to rest of europe), or colonies, or autocratic cultures like china. even china suffered a lot at the hands of japanese invaders.

all these situations bred grudges and (rather righteous) anger in these societies. the perfect way to create psychopaths.

when same kind of social environment and suffering is created in societies, whatever you do afterwards take the nature of that social atmosphere.

there hasnt been such a major situation in the west, because, the system there offered token upwards mobility. despite the ones moving upward has been low at all times (even in modern age), the system and established elite makes these an example, and if anyone questions it, they are shown the examples of those 'who made it'. for everyone that 'makes' it, however, there are thousands who 'cant make it'. and it is also a matter of interest that, the ones who 'make it', can never make it to the very top or the top 5%, able to take their supper in paris and dinner in bahamas. actually the ones who are going upper than upper middle class are very very rare, and being let to even do it requires acceptance and acknowledgment of existing
power structure and elite already.

And in spite of the corruption in those countries typical socialist dictators like Chavez and Castro are actually chosen again and again because they do invest in free medicine and education to the ridiculously low level that they can (or want to) afford.

chavez cannot be equated with castro at any point. in his presidency, persecution didnt happen. if im not mistaken, even the right wing part of army which staged the coup against him was not persecuted.

http://www.google.com/search?q=coup+agai...=firefox-a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezu...at_attempt

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0416-03.htm

Despite the inhumane and deplorable practices they employed, justifying and preparing their coup. (firing on demonstrators and accusing chavez etc).

currently, with the 59% in favor referendum he had the last time, (authenticated by international observers), and the situation above, i dont believe there is any other government that is more democratic on the face of the planet. especially when some of the g5 member countries' elections have been under scrutiny for fraud.

Which tends to be a great step up from the former dictators who only invested in themselves. These people don't actually have much choices politics are usually ruled by socialist rhetoric and just a little actual socialism. And you can choose from your little hut between people who basically go yachting together.

what chavez is currently doing, is beyond 'some socialism'. they are actually going on the path of northern european countries.

And then the sad part.. Most of the affluence is converted to military might. Because well, if you're rich people may end up wanting to take it away. The paradox is that if we didn't have the military to feed no one would be really poor.

unfortunately judging from the bay of pigs incident, various other attempts in cuba, and the cia-instigated coup by the now-ousted elite in venezueal, that 'may end up wanting to take it back' never fails to come to fruition.

it is appalling that the very people who have been sucking the blood dry out of masses just 10 years ago, have gone on 'protests' against 'dictatorship', giving statements to reporters about 'freedom', just because they werent able to make money that easily anymore, and being taxed of their huge income.

also the nationalization of oil cartel installations and oil, had played a huge part in american support to this debauchery and treachery in my opinion.

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My response is that I believe nationalism will not be relevant in 4D+.
We then got onto quite a long discussion about whether government can be a positive force, with unity100 carrying the flag for socialism as a force for good.

even further, im proposing that, the nature of positive society complexes, are exactly socialism/communism.

everyone has equal rights to everything, everyone not only works together and decides together, but also thinks together, feels together.