10-04-2010, 07:54 PM
(10-04-2010, 05:49 PM)thefool Wrote: OK. When I think of socialism- It is just one step closer to communism or communism in hiding.
wow. 'communism in hiding', as if it was something sinister, evil. it reminds me the 1980s during which the right wing, american backed state was brainwashing people here wooing them away from such things using lines like 'communists are heathens' etc.
Quote:Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property.[1] The exact definition of communism varies and it is commonly used interchangeably with socialism, however, communist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the way to communism.
it is not 'communism in hiding'. it is used interchangeably with communism, and in addition, in its least form it is a stage towards communism.
i have been using it directly synonymous with communism.
ie, no private property, no wage labor (everyone owns equal rights to means of production) everyone communally owns everything as society.
i was talking directly on that. its not in 'hiding' or anything, its directly it.
Quote:If Sweden is your example of socialist country then I call it 'welfare state' not really a socialist country. The welfare state typically have high taxation and lot of state ownership. The government can do that because of free market economy and prosperity that it brings.
sweden and a number of n european countries has been used as example, because these are regions that do not have repression and autocracy as a cultural heritage.
due to resistance of established elite, (most of whom are from old aristocratic castes by the way) socialist or communist societies were not able to come to being in any other country, especially the ones supposedly having 'freedom'. anyone suggesting higher taxes, unions, leave aside abolition of private ownership were beaten down, both in 19th century, and 20th. actually, they are still beating such people down, even in supposedly civilized countries, if they are perceived as a threat that gone over a certain threshold.
however, sweden cannot be dubbed a 'welfare' state. this is an american term, an american invention by the way, and it should be left in right wing oriented american lands.
sweden has quite high personal income tax. however, it already had lower corporate income taxes for a long time.
the end result happens to be an interesting, almost communist situation - you can start a private company and run it and make profit, but, you cannot use that profit for yourself. if you attempt to take it and spend it yourself, government takes a huge portion of it. if it stays in corporation and is not touched, corporation can use it.
basically, corporations act as semi-independent government bureaus that autonomously render goods and services in such countries. supposedly they are your own, but, the income taxes for an individual are so high that, it is doubtful that you can call something your 'own' in that situation.
add to that the numerous rules and regulations that govern the conduction of production and service, you end up not so far away from a communist regime.
basically you cant sell lead laden children's toys to kids in such places. leave aside actually selling it, and then apologizing and paying some ridiculously small percentage of reparations in comparison to your wealth, you cant even come near doing that in the first place.
......
before all of these, i believe an entity going on positive path should sit and think, that can there be 'private property' in a positive society. can there be 'profit'. can there be anything other than equal rights, sharing, equal distribution ....
Quote:Once again. I can dream and imagine of anything even unlimited so why should it be not possible.
everything can be unlimited. everything is unlimited. however, in that unlimited infinity, you are manifesting in an existence that has limitations in place, in order to effect the concept of multi-being manifestations, multipleness to come to being.
your sun, is not providing unlimited energy to you. the energy it provides, is limited with its physical manifestation. this physicality includes whatever manifestation it has in time/space, in comparably more lessened impact of physicality, yet, still existing.
as you go up in densities and approach octave, it may get phenomenally more unlimited, but, it will still have limitation.
Quote:-Do you think if I project light into the space it will travel for a few billion years and then find the edges of the time/space and then drop off or start to come back to me?
it wont return to you. it will stop at whatever boundary universe has. universe, has a boundary.
http://www.google.com/search?q=universe+...=firefox-a
Quote:-If the time/space is limited then what is beyond that limitation? What is that beyond part of ? Wouldn't that be part of time/space as well?
also
infinity is beyond limitation. its also infinitely limited. up until that point, everything will have whatever distribution of these two, according to their nature. nothing can be free of limits, and nothing can be infinitely limited.
Quote:- You see the unique patterns in snowflakes, right. Do you think that after a few billion years the creator would run out of patterns and start to recycle the old one? NO my friend! think again. Even mathematically you can keep going and going ad-infinitum...
at any given time, the number and variation of snowflake patterns is limited.
if you add a few billion years, a few trillion years, or, add infinite time, situation changes.
that is why comparison is incorrect and irrelevant - sun can channel a limited amount of energy, but, if you give it infinite time, the energy it channels will amount to unlimited.
Quote:I agree that our perception of it could be limiting but the time/space is not limited at all. Don't discount the mystery of it all and don't think of it like a big box with edges and limits...
attributing 'mystery' to something doesnt make it free of rules and hierarchical framework of manifestation that was set at the start of this existence/octave/whatever.
time/space, is counterpart of space/time. to complete it to 0, both need to balance each other out, just like how negative and positive or any other concept balance each other out.