10-04-2010, 05:03 PM
(10-04-2010, 02:08 PM)thefool Wrote: Really!!! You are taking an example from a capitalist company from a capitalist country. How could this be a socialist example. If the same thing was tried in a socialist country then first of all unions would have objections to these countless people working number of hours for no wages and benefits. They would try to get proper union members with salary and benefits to do it. How dare a greedy capitalist company exploiting poor workers without wages... Then there probably would be some regulation to overcome fro someone to use their time like this. How can people collaborate on something that maybe wasteful for their own pleasures, shouldn't they be working on something that is politburo approved and puts food on the table... You might even have to stand two/three hours in a line to get your proper approval or permit to even work on such a project. And even then the government might suggest who to pick on these projects. And if this turns out to be some success despite the red tape, they would make a regulation for all the countrymen to participate in such projects, mandatory.
capitalist company from capitalist country ? relevance ?
open source, nonprofit projects, given away for free, anyone can participate, anyone can leave, anyone can do whatever they want with the source.
what part of this is company or capitalism ?
and 'unions' ? what 'unions' in a socialist country ? you do not have unions in a socialist system, because there is no need to defend any given party's rights against any other party's rights. everything is decided democratically, at least in theory. 'regulation', 'red tape', 'waiting in lines', with all due respect, this seems too much like right-wing propaganda that the right employs in america to make people get scared of thinking about anything but the system they want.
i implore you research sweden, finland, norway. you will find that, these countries have been ruled by socialist governments for the good part of last 60 years, have countless rules and regulations in place, and the experience of their citizens, have been above and beyond. one particular irony is, their citizens themselves dont know the standards they are living in, and complain though. their complaints go away right when they see the 'real' world outside their country for long durations.
Quote:If open source software development is an example of socialist practice then I would argue that America is a socialist country. And status of liberty is a socialist symbol; we just need to replace the torch with hammer and sickle. And the declaration of independence is a socialist manifesto. I have proof too-
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...".
That sounds pretty socialist in that way. But what is the difference-
concept of 'private ownership' doesnt happen in a socialist system. noone can own anything, everyone has to share. and everyone has equal rights to everything.
so, your approach doesnt hold. open source concept, is beyond socialist, to the point that its entire result is being given away free.
Quote:The difference is the consent of the governed. It is the individual that holds the most important place in the US system and it is the collective that holds supreme in the socialist/communist system. The idea is that once individual take care of themselves the collective will automatically be taken care of.
The difference is the role of the government. In all socialist systems government is all powerful and absolute authority. In American system the individuals choose the government.
this is misinformation. your information is incorrect.
in socialist systems, individuals choose the government just like any other system that has representation.
Quote:The difference is the choice. In socialist system government makes the rule and only choice is for you to get out of the country or get killed. In American system, you can throw the government out.
incorrect. in a socialist system, the government which you chose makes the rules. in 'american' system, also the same government which you chose makes the rules.
in a socialist system, if you dont like the government, you can elect others.
there is no difference in between 'american' system or 'socialist' systems in regard to representation by election. they both use the representative democratic process. they are precisely the same.
Quote:And people do try to escape these oppressive regimes. If the socialism is so good why are their people always trying to escape it. Recent examples of Cuban coming to America in small boats leaving their families behind and risking their own lives. Then there was Berlin wall between East and West Germany just to hold the people from East Germany to escape the oppression. What significant cultural differences could East and West Germany have to cause so much disparity in the growth and prosperity. To me it is case of failure of centralized command and control planning failure of socialism that cause all the deficiencies in the economic system.
'oppressive' regimes. your answer, is in your question.
all those countries and regions you speak of, as it was given in my earlier post as an example and a small bit of history, has been repressive cultures for thousands of years (some of them has more than 5 thousand year old histories), and they have always stayed that way, regardless of their system and their regime, and their times. some of them are still that way, even now supposedly 'democratic' with a capitalist system.
have you seen anyone escaping sweden ? finland ? norway ? these countries have been pretty much socialist for a long time now, electing socialist or left leaning parties for a long time, albeit very recently.
Quote:All is one and One is all. So yes they are connected but doesn't translate into them being the same. Space/Time is limited and Time/Space is unlimited. Do you feel limited in a dream?
that is incorrect. space/time, and time/space, limited similarly and oppositely.
in space/time, there is abundant space. in time/space, there is time in abundance. but neither is unlimited. there is still defined amount of space in space/time, and time still passes in time/space.