(10-02-2010, 08:47 PM)thefool Wrote: Unity, believe what you must !!! If you believe that today's America is worse than middle ages than go for it. What can I say. But I am not going to bash Turkey in return.
yes, it is statistically worse than medieval times. ie, even fewer people have access to all amenities of the society, even among the top 5%. the poor segment is much worse. only, the standards have changed, now, people dont have to live in straw roof houses. however, if you put it in the standards of medieval times in regard to comparison of what the richest segment gets and what the poorest gets, and what are their percentages, current situation comes up worse. (actually, in 1200s england most of the ruling strata wore almost the same clothes, did the same things and ate the same things as serfs).
today while the richest of society goes from city to city with personal jets to have their supper in paris, majority of society works countless hours in places like walmart, and still cant make ends meet properly, leave aside feed a proper family. the divide in between poor and middle class has also got larger, compared to medieval times. not to mention middle class became smaller, and poor class has become bigger.
you should bash turkey too. because, the same regime has been imported here in the last 30 years. now things are going worse by day, people dont have money to buy anything. but, if you look at the statistics, the gdp has increased, national income too. however, income distribution have gone totally the opposite. now people do not have to even put their kids into schools, universities. everything has been privatized, everything requires even increasing amounts of money, and people are going bankrupt. 60 new small businesses are giving their bankruptcy every day in my city, a 3 million one. there are, if im not mistaken, 1 to 3 million credit cards which are in legal proceedings now, and the banks cannot get the debt paid, because people dont have money. everybody owes to everybody, nobody has the money to pay it.
Quote:By the way, I am an American by choice. I lived in India for first 28 years of my life. So I am well aware of the socialist democracy and speak from experience. Now I can count on you to present something damning against India. America is not perfect but it is a land of opportunity and freedom and there is no doubt about this one in my mind.
of course there is. and quite damning too. india has been a colony in its past, wasnt able to develop proper industry, education accordingly (it was especially prevented, ie, like the practice of making kids memorize logarithmic tables in schools, by british), and its early days had been in strife, struggle and fight for survival. leaving aside the pakistani and bangladeshi breakup and the problems these have brought, chinese also invaded at one point, and has been a threatening menace for a long time until early 80s. leaving aside the cold war. on top of it, this was a 1 bil country.
there are limits to everything. a social democracy's strength is the education level and awareness of its citizens. north european countries, because they have evaded various wars and strife in the late 19th century and early 20th century, have been able to keep education high. therefore, system and citizens feed each other recursively.
Quote:You speak about money like it is some sort of evil. That only clarifies your perception of it. Nothing more. It is a tool for exchange. When you don't see it changing hands then people have already been taxed for it. people are paying for it one way or another.
money is a sort of evil, yes. money means you give something in return for what you take, and the giver expects you to give something in return for what it gives.
this is totally opposite of positive polarization. opposite cannot even be debated - positive means, you give more than what you take, and, towards the 8th d, nearing 99% percentage that way.
that aside, money may be a useful tool for calculating and arranging flow of resources and planning. it could as well be 'resource units'. it wouldnt matter.
however, there is the concept of ownership. once you put the concept of ownership into the mix, it becomes a total negative system setup. (leaving aside the orange ray connotations that accompany concept of 'own'ing something).
Quote:Once again there are STS elements that have infiltrated all parts of our society including capitalists and large corporations. In the same manner they are in the government. Big government and big corporations are both dangerous as they have the power of monopoly.
the system currently dominates the planet is not corrupted and infiltrated by sts and therefore negative because of that. it is negative in its core. lets see :
- 'own'ing things. leave aside entities, but also places, resources, and even, concepts. (ip, patents). and being able to decide who uses them, and how much
- more than expecting anything to be given back for something used, but also, due to system's all encompassing nature, forcing everyone to oblige by it. if you dont take things back, you cant survive.
- the ownership ratio of the bigger owners always increase over time. this is inevitable. because there is inheritance. as long as entities inherit things, their shares will increase, even in a supposedly 'perfect' capitalist society. if they do not waste their wealth in casinos, given enough generations, the entire means of production and resource generation would belong to the same family or a group of families.
- these kind of things are prevented by laws. but, this is a socialist practice. even those laws are easily circumvented through big conglomerate chains and proxy ownerships.
- when any private interest monopolizes a certain resource/industry to a certain extent, they become the sole governor of that aspect of life. like procter&gamble, or similar other big low level producers. this stage is inevitable, because corporations are allowed to grow bigger.
- a corporation is a negative construct itself. it is a group of entities as opposed to everyone. the 'own'ing entities get all the profit, whereas they are free to give the ones doing real work, whatever amount they see fit, even token amounts. this is the reason why wages have been going down everywhere, due to the capitalist mechanism. it is ironic that, i have been taught how to do this optimally, in college, was part of my training.
- those are the richest strata of the society automatically become the elite of the society. they replace aristocracy.
there are many more elements that can be directly identified as negative society elements. ranging from competition, to decision mechanisms. however, these are more like details at this moment.
Quote:I am not here to change your mind so feel free to have any opinions. I find it very amusing to say the least. I really learned something new today...
actually you have given me a chance to voice these issues.
these are core issues, yet, all those people who are supposedly polarizing positively, just play along with this system, even support it. it is unbelievable that, positive entities are supporting a negative construct. (if they are really positive, that is). with all the 'own'erships, profits, competition, separation and all that.
i very much think, these are creating difficulties for their spiritual growth and polarization, and if not, for their energy/psychic situations and models, because each thought/belief kept in mind, affects behavior, and each action has reflections in time/space.
Quote:
Freedom is your ability to take actions but the results are not guaranteed. You have freedom to jump in the lake but you would not die from it is not guaranteed.
In this hypothetical scenario of yours- If you keep showing the tendency that alienate you from your social memory complex then you might not incarnate with them again. You will probably incarnate with like minded rabble rousers. There you may be able to join the race to do it first...
guaranteed ?
what does guaranteed means ? if i am not able to use my freedom in practice in the end, it means there is no freedom ?
so then, if i get inclined to take the liberty of playing with a fusion reactor and blowing it up, the social memory complex i am incarnating with is going to expel me.
so, it means, society complex decides that, repetitively blowing a planet up by playing with a fusion reactor, is not something that can be allowed. therefore, society complex decides, what can and cannot be done .....