(09-20-2010, 06:53 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Neither does the vatican offcourse, they just have a lot to say about it. Incidentally just like some of the buddhist organizations. The stupid thing in both circumstances are that people listen to both the right things and the wrong things these people say.
incorrect. caanan religions have always been how to live your life in its minuate, from wedding to how to punish thieves, whereas eastern philosophies have exclusively been about the entities' inner worlds.
vatican, never said or hinted that they dont demand anything from their flock. it is to the contrary, they regularly ask certain things be done in certain ways, ranging from adoption to science.
Quote:And they do great work.. Yet they had their versions of control.
The Sakya school ruled tibet before the chinese invaded. Without making any apologies for the chinese, they should give the people of tibet freedom. But the Sakya school was not an enlightened doctrine at that time. They gouched out eyes and cut of hands as judicial punishment until the beginning of the 20th century. Around the time the chinese showed up they still flogged people on a regular basis. In the US they had only stopped doing it to prisoners for a few decades by then. Poverty was so severe that everyone was essentially a slave.
The chinese have blown this up and use this to their advantage. But it is not made up. Most lies are exaggerations of truth.
You only know the good side of Buddhist history. You essentially tell me rational reasons why it shouldn't be like this. And I would love to agree. But rationality and reality often diverge. If it looks simple you're probably deceiving yourself at least that's what I always tell myself.
no, i am not. since history is my hobby, i have information about the southeastern asia history as well and know how vile and bloody it is.
yet, i am able to evaluate the philosophies based on their own mechanics, than the history of the regions that have practiced them.
Quote:It's all people. Seeing one group as more enlightened than others is part of the 3d illusion. We have to learn to see beyond it to see humanity stripped of it's archetypes, as she is.
this is not about groups. this is about teachings/procedures and their natures. if something has been planned and created to be negative in nature, it will retain its negative nature, regardless of the times. groups interpreting it more aggressively or passively will not change the nature of the teaching/procedure.
Quote:I want to remind you that this is not this religion versus that religion. This is me filling you in in some of the dark spots of your awareness of Buddhist history simply because you chose them as an example of perfection.
I don't want to give Buddhists a bad name. They don't deserve it. In spite of their troubles they are in great shape today. I'm simply adding context to reveal a bigger much more complicated picture.
Some of the best people I know are Buddhists, and I have studied it as part of my own evolution. There was a time I felt Buddhism could be for me. I have had that experience with many religions. Until I discovered I just had to study them all. Buddhism is a treasure trove of positive teachings and great wisdom. Today it is one of the most accessible and open religions of the world. The work these folks are doing for global consciousness is amazing.
But we should realize that everyone is human. And in the end that's the weak spot, we are not perfect when we compare ourselves to true love great wisdom and compassion..
you are the one who is thinking and commenting on groups. i am not, and have not done it at any point in this discussion.
i am commenting on the religions. and i am saying, whatever is the nature of that particular belief/dogma system, it is going to have the effect it is going to have on the people that are following it. positive or negative.
the culture or history of a certain region being in a certain way, does not change the nature of the religion that acts within.
as a simple example, regardless of what happened in east central european steppes, the culture of those regions have always been a repressive and brutal one, going way back to 2000 BC. the tribes originating from there were brutal and repressive, while raiding and settling in anatolia, the region stayed brutal and repressive after christianity came, it stayed brutal and repressive after serfdom, stayed the same during tsardom, stayed the same during communist era, and still the same in the 'democracy' era it is in now. it is a regional trait, and regardless of what happens, it seems to stay that way.
one can easily argue that the history of east asia could be a much more bloody one without buddhism taoism and so on.
but, these, still do not change the nature of the religion/dogma systems.
in particular, islam's traits are built into its holy book, koran, in an unobjectionable and unquestionable manner, and cannot be changed. this is a theological matter, and it wont change with interpretation. actually, koran doesnt even allow interpretation.
(09-21-2010, 08:51 AM)Shemaya Wrote: To add to the positive view of religions, think about the countless COUNTLESS religious organizations and faith based ministries that feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, visit and minister to prisoners, provide all kinds of help and support to people in need.
They provide a community and structure to do acts of service, and it is invaluable, and it opens peoples hearts on a daily and minute by minute basis.
it has a hidden benefit. the community/church/whatever doing the charity strengthens its impression in the public, also influences those who it helps, even if it does not intend to do so. also, strengthens the solidarity within its own flock and justifies its existence to its flock.