2006.01.01 'Failure' of the plan that this logos chose

[Monica]

@Monica: You say there is no evidence that there are non causal relations in this universe. But synchronicity is an example of a non causal connection. And I know you know synchronicity.

Actually, I didn't say there wasn't evidence. I said it couldn't be proven, since negatives can't be proven. To say that there "isn't" something is to attempt to prove a negative.

I do indeed know synchronicity! But I don't consider it to be a non-causal connection. What appears to be a non-causal connection is, in my view, caused by connections undetected, in all cases except those occasional random occurrences mentioned by Ra. And even then, I would consider the cause to be the mechanism for random events being generated that is built into the system, just as a programmer programs a random number generator into a computer program.

---

there is no way that i can bridge the concepts in between you two and me,

That may be true. However, perhaps hearts can bridge where intellects cannot.

because doing so requires me to see matters as you see.

It is my personal opinion that the most potent tool for peace is the ability to see a situation from the point of view of an other-self, while simultaneously disagreeing.

This may seem paradoxical, since most disagreement is caused by an inability to understand another point of view. But from the point of view of the whole, all other points of view are valid. To 'see' another point of view, and understand and even respect it, while in the midst of vehement disagreement, is powerful indeed.

Because i was once from the religion, and the mindset Ali qadir is,

For now, I will honor your request to keep this thread open, but my stipulation is that EVERYONE refrain from labeling another self's mindset or opinion. (I'm not speaking to just unity here, but to everyone, since others have done this too.) The first step to restoring harmony on this thread is for EVERYONE to quit speaking on behalf of another, or labeling another.

from what i have seen from his posts in numerous threads -, as far as i remember the format, there will never be any kind of understanding unless i concede 'god's greatness', unquestionability, and unfathomability. These are the traits of a religion once i was a member of, and have studied deeply for two years, and also all the sufist and other middle eastern philosophies following it. There is no way to concile with these philosophies.

There can be understanding without agreement.

I personally am interested in your views. When you say "God" or "god" is there a distinction? Are you referring to the One Infinite Creator or to the Logos that created our particular little speck in the UniVerse?

With you, as far as i see, the situation is slightly different, but on a same parallel. You want me to 'humble' myself, and accept your viewpoint. You wont rest easy as long as i dont 'humble' myself, or my viewpoint.

I think this entire thread could use a big dose of humility. Humility just means we acknowledge that ours is one of many possible viewpoints, and not necessarily the single 'right' answer. It also leaves room to learn something from someone else. It does not necessarily mean accepting an opinion we disagree with, or compromising our own opinions.

'Humbling' oneself means accepting various incapabilities, which in turn brings a lessening in worth/worthlessness balance, which then in turn impedes numerous things, ranging from mental, spiritual capabilities, connections to self-esteem.

Just trying to understand...Are you saying that humbleness is never appropriate? Or do you think it is appropriate in some cases?

This thread, proposing a possibility of the failure of some plan that is perceived to be of the so great creator

Admittedly, I have not read all of the posts in this thread. But my understanding was that the discussion was about a perceived failure of the plan designed by this Logos, not the One Infinite Creator. Please forgive me if I have missed some pertinent posts in which the discussion turned to a perceived failure of the One Infinite Creator.

that certain philosophies praise and gratify, is very offensive to that kind of philosophy. Hence, the discussion with two of you deteriorated towards 'my capacities' and 'my headstrongness', my inexistent 'humbleness', ie - concepts based on personality, rather than the general concepts, for that very reason. For, humbling or discrediting of me, will be perceived by the nullification of that offensive proposal that 'god can fail'.

You raise a valid point. It is certainly possible that some members, maybe even all who have been involved in this thread, have had their buttons pushed. I saw that happen recently on another thread (with different participants). I agree with you that this is a very volatile topic, and volatile topics/radical ideas tend to push buttons. This is a very subconscious thing.

so far the reaction from people who hold such philosophies had been quite civil. It is quite aggressive and rude in general, in other places.

I'm sorry that you perceived rudeness and aggression on our forum. That's disconcerting. We try to maintain a loving and respectful tone here.

as i said, i wont be discussing this with you two, for, i know that there can be no agreement. we cant even disagree civilly, for i must concede that god is great, and cant be fathomed and cant possibly fail, before you two can rest easy. therefore, i wont be replying to you in this thread anymore. Alternatively, from my experience with other people of similar philosophies, locking of the thread would also put your minds at ease, since the 'offense' will not continue anymore, however, it would also be to the detriment and dislike of me, and similarly open minded people.

There seems to be a consensus among the members who are in a discordant pattern, that they can't continue the discussion with certain others who disagree. If that's what needs to happen in order to restore harmony, then so be it.

At the risk of sounding condescending, I am reminded of what parents often tell their children: If you can't say something nice, then say nothing at all.

I will spell it out:

To Everyone: Please continue to participate in this discussion ONLY if you can do so respectfully. This means NO direct judgments or labeling towards another member. Disagree with the idea all you want, but refrain from labeling, attacking, or belittling the person.

As defined in our guideline #1:

1) Respect, respect, respect. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectfully at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our own knowledge and deepen our own understanding; we are not here to tear each other down.

As I mentioned, I'd rather not lock this thread. The topic is certainly intriguing.

For now, this thread is under review by the other moderators and myself. Our prime directive here at Bring4th is respect, respect, respect, as stated in our #1 guideline.

Further discord won't be tolerated.