Sexual addiction! and Male-Female energy roles/energies

[Monica]

Hi Monica. Thank you for the warm, kind words!! I'm really glad you appreciated the post, because I regretted posting it, initially.

You're quite welcome! Funny, I too hesitated about posting, and wondered how my words would be received.

For some reason, I really felt compelled to share it with you specifically. When I read your earlier long post, it felt like you were being very real and were trying to explain your perspective on an issue you had obviously done a great deal of soul-searching about.

Thank you! I'm so glad you did! Yes this is an issue that caused me a great deal of pain many years ago, and something I have had to work thru.

As I said earlier, porn for me was never really much of a big issue. I wrote it off as a silly thing to think about, obsess over, or argue about, but I realize now after reading this thread that I should have contemplated it much more deeply.

I'm so glad you found value in this thread! Thanks again to Biu_Tze for having the courage to start such a potentially volatile discussion! And thanks to everyone for their contributions! I agree with Gary that this is awe-inspiring, how we have all been able to share on such a deep and loving level.

Over the years, I have given a great deal of thought to the visual wiring of men and the catalyst that this brings with it. I had a few conversations with women on related topics over the years, but never, ever heard a balanced, nuanced feminine perspective from anyone. I also never really shared my own male views clearly.

It seems that this is one of those things that people just aren't really questioning. In our society, it's sort of accepted that Boys will be boys and women generally don't like it but seem to either accept it (If you can't beat 'em join 'em) or are unreasonably jealous and judgemental about it (going ballistic upon finding a girlie mag under the bed).

I was 18-21 when I was the boyfriend who had the addiction. He had a huge collection of magazines - 100's of them. (This was before we had an internet.) And he frequented the strip clubs. I bounced from one extreme (trying to suck it up and join in) to the other (going ballistic and tearing up his magazines). Neither worked. Never once did he ever acknowledge that I had any justification whatsoever for my feelings. My feelings were invalid, ridiculous, something to be laughed at. Even if he agreed to not go to the strip clubs for awhile, in the company of other men I was the silly, jealous girlfriend, and the jokes flew about how men tell their women whatever they want to hear, just to keep the peace, but as soon as they men got together in their male wolf packs, women became objects to be laughed at.

I was expected to accept that he became another person while in the company of other men. He explained to me how important it was for men to bond with other men, and going to strip clubs was an important way for them to do that. He assured me that the strippers weren't really people, but just entertainment. He told me that I shouldn't be jealous because he would come home to me.

At the time, I sought help from other women. But, being young, my friends certainly weren't any help. I read the advice columns in which the advice was always the same: Don't make a big deal out of your man's porn habits or you'll lose him. Be ready and willing to have sex at any moment, if you want to keep your man. It's ok for your man to look as long as he doesn't touch.

The prevalent attitude among most women I knew was that this was something they didn't dare mess with. To take on the male obsession with porn was an insurmountable task, something doomed to failure. Any woman who didn't understand that was stupid and destined to lose her man and it would be her fault for being so possessive. After all, everyone knows that Boys will be boys, right?

This was the mentality I was dealing with, and I wasn't mature enough or confident enough at the time to trust my own feelings or guidance.

Later, I became a born-again Christian for awhile. Finally, I met people who agreed with me! But they were overly simplistic in their assessment: Porn was from the pit of hell. But these same people also said that premarital sex with someone you actually love was also sinful, and I vehemently disagreed with that!!! So I didn't quite fit in with their mindset either. They oversimplified the issue and failed miserably in their efforts to neuter their men.

I didn't agree with them that men should be neutered. I want my man fully functional, but channeling those urges instead of being controlled by them!

Interestingly, a few years ago one of my Christian friends confided in me that her husband struggled with porn. One day he was at the adult video store and ran into his pastor. He was extremely indignant! What was the pastor doing in a place like this?? But then he realized the obvious: What was he doing in a place like this? That experience affected him deeply and he was able to let go of it afterwards, to my friend's delight.

So, even though the topic was not personally important to me, the perspective you shared was incredibly feminine, insightful, and non-judgmental and it forced me to think about the topic in a way that was alien to me, but mind-expanding. I thought to myself, now here is a female who is trying to SHARE her perspective and EXPLAIN what and why she feels in a non-accusatory fashion and with a Law of One grounding to boot.

Whew! That was a tough one and I'm glad to hear I somehow managed to pull it off!

This led me to contemplate these incredible forums and reflect on how difficult it must have been for Biu & Lavazzo to share their stories and how each subsequent post just added to the overall Gestalt picture that was forming of the topic. I began to feel Oneness and kinship with all of these great souls sharing their Light and perspectives.

Agreed!

It forced me to think about things that are not deeply personally relevant, but yet view it from a variety of angles and perspectives.

That's what compassion is all about!

We can learn so much more when we see it through so many eyes. I was overwhelmed with the idea that this must be a tiny glimpse into how a social memory complex grows in the early stages of harmonization. I guess I felt like I was communing with my people, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense and that thought has been expressed many times on this forum - that we are building a SMC here.

Because I have thought so hard on the visual stimuli topic and felt it was part of the key to understanding porn addiction, and male reactions in general, I thought it could help those struggling with porn (and those affected by it) with more compassion for self and others.

Definitely! I found your comments incredibly loving and insightful, and I'm really glad you shared your views.

Understanding is the ultimate key to forgiveness, in my view.

I would say that it can be a key, thus making forgiveness easier to accomplish, but in many cases we don't have the luxury of understanding. Understanding is not of this density, so if we have it, that's great, but many times we don't have it, and in those cases, making the choice to forgive first, before we have understanding, is powerful indeed. To choose to forgive someone when you really disagree with them and don't have a clue why they did what they did...can in turn unlock the key to understanding! So it can work both ways!

That made me want to share my thoughts, but what pushed me to register for an account and actually post was your sharing. I thought to myself that if we had a woman here so willing to share an honest, open female perspective that I almost had a DUTY to reciprocate and share what I hoped to be its male counterpart.

Well I am so glad you did! I hope you stick around and continue to participate! We have many threads in which equally deep topics are explored.

You know, I see your point, I really do. I have heard friends have arguments with their mates about this topic, but thought it was jealousy-based since, as far as I was concerned, men couldn't help being turned on by attractive women due to visual wiring but they COULD control whether to be faithful or not, to act on their urges. I really just never thought of it like mental adultery before and a violation of intimacy. Thank you for sharing that insight.

It has to do with whether they feed it or not. Being momentarily turned on by a pretty woman walking by is harmless and normal, but no man ever got girlie mags dropped on his head by the tooth fairy! I doubt that men are ever forced to walk into a strip club. They could always choose to walk out. And, it's easy to block porn pop-ups with today's sophisticated browser software. To spontaneously turn his head when the woman walks by is innocent. To make the conscious choice to watch porn is...intentional. And that is the difference. I'm not saying this choice is easy. But it is a choice.

I agree with you that it is indeed primal. I find it, like so many other things about 3d life to be a pitfall on the one hand but a possible vehicle for further growth on the other. Ah, the paradox of this existence.

That's catalyst!

In my own particular path, I've experienced an unusually large amount of catalyst involving the animal kingdom. Including cockroaches & mosquitoes, interestingly enough! Maybe I'll mention some of it the next time an animal or vegetarian type topic comes up.

We already have a couple of threads exploring the vegetarian issue, but I don't think we have any dealing with animal catalyst specifically. Please feel free to start a new thread to explore this topic if you like!

It makes me feel so good that you received the point in the light I intended it. And I agree it is just another layer of catalyst, for BOTH sexes.

Definitely. It's helpful if we can get past seeing the other sex as adversarial. Let's all work together to solve this, but in order to do that, both sides have to acknowledge the validity of the other person's feelings and challenges.

That is the key: we have a choice on whether to feed that lower chakra, primal urge or balance the feelings and elevate ourselves.

Ah, I just said that very same thing!

I realize that thoughts like those are a slippery slope to what you were talking about with some men using a woman's appearance as a way to JUSTIFY rape. Like she was asking for it or something, which is clearly insane. But yet I can't help but feel that there is some basic validity to the thought that an enlightened woman should at least be mindful of the way men are visually wired and make some practical adjustments.

Well said! It is indeed a slippery slope. Perhaps the determining factor is intention. Was she intentionally challenging those men, so that she could then find an excuse to criticize men? Or was she reveling in her own youth and beauty, oblivious to the effect she was having on men?

I agree that women are part of the equation here. Women do indeed know how powerful they are. In fact, some cultures teach that women have the power. They have the power to seduce men. There are many stories about empires falling because the leader made poor decisions because of his lust for a woman. The King Arthur story comes to mind.

Women do indeed have their own catalyst, and part of it is to learn compassion for men's biologically programmed catalyst. On some level, even the victimized sex slaves have chosen that path. Victim is just the other side of victimizer. Two sides of the same coin. The STS polarity depends on victims as well as victimizers.

I never really joined in because I saw it as nothing but frustration. Why would I want to allow myself to get all worked up and hot and bothered when I wasn't in an appropriate setting and had no partner? That would just leave me unfulfilled and craving. I preferred to save my passion for actual women at appropriate times and I couldn't really see why these guys who I knew had sexual relationships would waste their time and energy watching dirty videos. I mean, I was interested in light pornography before I started having relationships with real girls, but after I started dating, I completely lost interest in it.

You sound a lot like my husband! One time he was in a convenience store and just ahead of him was a young man with a lot of acne, buying a girlie mag. An elderly woman was behind the counter. As she took the boy's money, she said to him, "Why don't you get yourself a real girl?" My husband laughed as he told the story.

---

Monica, thank you once again for this awesome female insight. I never heard the female dilemma explained so clearly. I will have to meditate on this at length.

There is so much more. I've barely scratched the surface. Looksism is everywhere. Here are some examples:

Barbie dolls. Who designed Barbie dolls??? They are anatomically impossible. Totally unrealistic. What kind of signal is this giving to impressionable children? Most little girls play with Barbie dolls, and it's perpetuating the ideal male image of an impossibly tiny waist, long slender legs, and disproportionately large breasts. Did you know that there is a movement to change that? There are anatomically realistic dolls on the market, that aware mothers buy as an alternative to Barbie?

When was the last time you saw a movie with the female lead character played by a short, plump actress?

About 6-7 years ago, quite out of the blue, my wife mentioned to me that she would be willing to get breast implants for me. It shocked me to the core and I had an extremely negative reaction to the suggestion. She and I were friends before becoming lovers and she knew that I used to have a preference for larger breasts, which she reminded me of. While that was technically true, love changes everything. I am (and was) so completely in love with her that she was perfect to me in every way. I didn't and don't wish to change a thing about her physically. And I certainly would never want her to subject herself to something so bad for her health for something so utterly shallow!! I never said anything negative to her about her body and I was a little hurt that she obviously didn't realize how much I adored her and thought that I could be so shallow.

Oh wow. You are so much like my husband it's uncanny. I am so grateful to have such an amazing man. And your wife is very lucky indeed!

We've had some similar experiences. As an example, I am very short and would never go out in public without 3" heels. Very early in our relationship, I was having some back pain and my calf muscles were very tight from wearing heels all the time. My husband, being a fitness enthusiast, convinced me to quit wearing the heels, in favor of my health over some unrealistic attempt to be taller. That meant a lot to me!

It may affect me visually but likely affects her emotionally on some level. I spent so much time thinking about that topic..that maybe I wasn't reassuring her enough, that perhaps I had made some idle comment that I couldn't even remember. I never stopped to think about the impact of the physical ideals women are subliminally programmed to live up to in our society.

Here's a dilemma: Physical attraction is part of the equation. If our mate happens to be physically attractive, it's natural to compliment them on their looks. A man married to a beautiful woman will tell her how beautiful she is, and she will love getting those compliments.

However, what happens if she loses her beauty? She may wonder how much of her mate's attentiveness was based on her physical beauty and how much on her other qualities. She may then feel inadequate and insecure.

While it's certainly good to offer compliments about her beauty, I would suggest giving equal time to complimenting her on her other qualities, when she is still beautiful. Don't wait until she loses her beauty! (We all lose our physical beauty eventually, some sooner than others.) Tell her now, that you admire her beauty but love her deeply anyway, regardless of how physically beautiful she is. Then, if down the road she ever loses that beauty, she will remember what you told her in the days of her youth, and it will comfort and reassure her more than anything you could say later. (This is just a generic suggestion and not directed to Pablisimo or anyone else personally.)

I must say again that true love dissolves the physical issues.

I absolutely agree!!!

My wife is 14 years older than me and when we first started dating, she told me she was worried I would look over at her one day and realize just how old she has become and be upset at the mistake I'd made.

It's understandable that she would be concerned about that. Right now I know a woman 10 years older than her husband, and their marriage is falling apart for that very reason. She is 65 and has a lot of health problems and looks like an old woman, while her husband is young, fit, and virile. In fact, they look so mismatched that I was shocked when I first met them! Not so much because of the physical difference but because of the distance between them. He seemed to view her with disgust. There was zero affection displayed. She might have been his mother! I wonder how much of their problems are because of her own insecurity, and how much is the man not appreciating her.

Ha! This woman has become more and more and more beautiful to me as the years have gone by. Yes, she ages, but our love has become so intense that she seems more and more perfect, inside and out with every passing year. I'm far more attracted to her now than I was 13 years ago!!

That's so awesome!!! You are so uncannily exactly like my hubby! And I adore him more as time goes by too!

I looked at her just the other day and the sunlight glinted off of a few gray strands of her otherwise dark hair. I imagined her with a full head of silver hair and thought to myself how beautiful that would look on her. In that instant, I realized that she would continue to be my goddess no matter how old she became or how her body changed. I think love transcends physicality. I know, she will one day be a very beautiful "old lady" and I will be proud to stand at her side.

I'm starting to get a few gray strands. One day I mentioned to my hubby that I haven't decided whether to start dying my hair (like most women do) when it gets grayer, or be one of those gray-haired hippie crones. He couldn't understand why I was even considering it.

Regardless of one's real attractiveness, a loving committed relationship blinds us to our mate's physical flaws and amplifies their inner and outer beauty.

I would suggest only a minor modification: Substitute the word physical for real. What is the real attractiveness?