02-18-2013, 04:21 PM
(02-18-2013, 04:16 PM)turtledude23 Wrote:(02-18-2013, 04:02 PM)Spaced Wrote: I don't think that use of psychoactive substances is a criteria for a mystic or a shaman in many traditions. Altered states of mind are a common if not universal tool of the mystic or shaman, but these can be attained without the use of an external substance.
I'm pretty sure most traditions did use some external substance, even incense is a psychoactive drug. The traditions which supposedly didn't use drugs you can't be sure of because of self-censorship in authoritarian environments - how can we really know what isolated monks did in their monasteries? We could look at the descendants of those traditions today but the ones I know of (Catholic monks) don't reach the kind of states of mind I'm talking about. It's possible to reach those states without drugs but alot harder. The only monks which come to mind who supposedly don't use drugs and seem to reach the higher states of mind are Buddhists and Sufis, but they do use techniques like self deprivation and dancing into a trance which I consider unnatural and unnecessary alternatives to psychoactive plants which only emerged because of unnecessarily strict religious rules.
The example I had in mind were Vodou Houngouns and Manbos who use music and dance to enter trance states where they commune with the Loas. There are many traditions that use dance or meditation in place of psychoactive substances.
The point I am trying to make is your definition of "They explore parts of the mind which most other people don't explore and come back with useful insights for us. They use and share psychoactive substances in order to reach exploratory states of mind. They make a living off of doing this." could be used to describe a drug dealer. The important thing is not the use of substances, it's the use of altered states of mind to access portions of the archetypal mind in order to perform healing.