Abrupt vs gradual harvest

[Parsons]

Yeah I'm assuming it could be comparably as difficult to learn the lessons of Love in 4D as it was to learn the Choice in 3D.

[AnthroHeart]

I think learning lessons of love in 4D might be "harder" because it's more subtle. The choice is anything but subtle.

[anagogy]

I still think that gradually can happen abruptly. Here's my question to anyone: Will the Orion entities have the same control and effect on our planet for all time forward as they do now?

No, the collective agreement that constitutes our reality will be dominated by a positive consensus, therefore, this will become, vibrationally, a 4th density positive planet. This is not compatible with 4th density negative thoughtforms. They will be repelled by its vibrational characteristics in otherwords. They won't even desire to be here. We are always gravitating to a space that is compatible with the vibration we are emitting. If the vibrations don't match, the connection cannot occur. The only reason negative entities can influence in the first place is because, by accident or on purpose, you thought in ways that were compatible enough with that consciousness, that it provided an inroad into your consciousness in the form of unconscious suggestion, which caused you to create or attract a negative outcome.

The more highly polarized STO you become, the more strongly the attempt is made to psychically attack you, however, at the same time, you become less and less vulnerable to attack as a result of that polarity. You become less willing to allow your consciousness to travel down those negative "thought roads".

When the earth moves to 4D, do the rules change regarding influence?

No. Except in the fact that we will be more conscious of such influences. The fact that we are so unconscious in 3rd density is what makes influence possible in the first place. One cannot guard what they are not aware of. One cannot make a choice one is not conscious of. Our variety of choices will increase in 4th density as consciousness increases.

I think something that is ignored and I believe is also at the heart of the harvest discussion is the fact that there is an obvious push in our cultural world to push people away from the right answers on a spiritual and ethical level. The fact that the Vatican is the global face of Christianity says enough. We see the influence of the STS side, which is required for 3D catalyst. However, we also know that it will be the absence of that influence will be a hallmark of a new 4D planet. How gradually would things move if all the barriers were removed and we started supporting communities living in positive ways?

Without the influence of negative forces, which have an agenda opposite of that of the positive influences, things would become very positive very quickly.

How long would it really take us if we were actually aiming to do the right thing?

"Right" is subjective. If by "right" you mean "activities of a service to others" nature, it would depend on how much those behaviors were imbued with wisdom. Quantity is usually trumped by quality. A few quality actions go a a long way.

[Patrick]

Yeah I'm assuming it could be comparably as difficult to learn the lessons of Love in 4D as it was to learn the Choice in 3D.

I don't know about difficulty per se, but Ra said that it's much less intense and catalysts are much slower. Seems like a good place to live.

---

...The more highly polarized STO you become, the more strongly the attempt is made to psychically attack you, however, at the same time, you become less and less vulnerable to attack as a result of that polarity...

That's pretty much what I said on another thread today.

[zenmaster]

How gradually would things move if all the barriers were removed and we started supporting communities living in positive ways?

Who determines what is positive and thus what should be supported?

Why is is difficult to determine what is service to others, is it not extremely obvious? You are adding another layer of 3D-ness that will no longer be necessary in anything new.

Well the transition is quite long.

[hogey11]

earlier post was lost (by my mistake), made new reply below

[hogey11]

@zen

Like Parsons stated, I was referring to the STO path available to us. That means acceptance of others and unconditional love. What I am trying to acknowledge here is that currently we face both paths offering us their service. As others have responded, the harvest point also marks a change in the Earth's relation to both STO and STS as it moves into its space as a 4D+ planet. I think that the influence that the STS bring to this planet is much stronger than many like to think. Our subservience to them is part of 3D catalyst and is an integral part of their own 3D negative catalyst as well. We are as indebted to them as they are to us at the end of it. This is why I have a hard time not believing there will be a 'reprieve' of sorts for us on the positive path here on earth. At some point, our 'competition' has to leave; this is our house. When they do leave, how quickly will it really take us to put things right as we see it ourselves as STO beings? I don't think very long at all.

As far as who or what is deciding what is right for everyone, I have to agree with Parsons that these things are 3D layers that will not apply to a 4D world. A 4D society finds value in the vast spread of interests and lifestyles in its peoples. A 4D positive society would celebrate every difference and encourage and lift up everyone, so I don't see the same threats that you do. I trust that 4D will be 4D.

As far as the transition being 'long', what if the 100-700 years period was given because Ra knew what our lifespans would be able to be lengthened to with the influx of 4D inspired technologies we would be seeing after the harvest? The latest reports from some Russian scientists are that they should have "immortality" figured out in the next 50 years; I could see a few 3D minds sticking it out as long as they can, and if the world is unfolding towards 4D I wouldn't blame them either. Didn't Ra say our "original" lifespans were programmed out at around 1000 years, but the distortions have become so great that we've whittled it down to 65 or whatever it is now. This to me is only greater proof that we are under heavy 'attack' from the STS as they end their own 3D cycles and strive for 4D negative. RA also says that the mechanics involving 4D negative harvest and ascension are exactly the same as the positive side, so I think just as we have never seen a more positive earth and world than we have today (and I believe that), we have also never seen such a huge ugly monster as what the greatest of the STS elite have become. Both extremes become true. Through greater and greater toil put upon us, we find more and more ways to allow love to respond. Some might want to focus on the media's perspective, but per capita the stats are clear that the world has never been better.

Again, this ties very much into the STS negative influence. Is this only dealt with on an individual basis and targeting approach, or is it also possible they are able to throw 'blankets' as well? Now, many will interject here and say "but we're choosing these things", and I completely agree with that. We are choosing these things, and for right now, they are perfectly appropriate for 3D catalyst. However, I do feel there will be a point where these things will no longer becomes appropriate, and that may be sooner than later. I guess we'll see eventually

@Siren

I guess I mean 'abrupt' in the sense that there will most likely be a tipping point towards 4D in that transition period. Will it be front loaded or back loaded with 'clearing' time? Will 3D dissipate linearly over time or will it ebb and flow?

@anagogy

No. Except in the fact that we will be more conscious of such influences. The fact that we are so unconscious in 3rd density is what makes influence possible in the first place. One cannot guard what they are not aware of. One cannot make a choice one is not conscious of. Our variety of choices will increase in 4th density as consciousness increases.

I agree with this quote. When I speak of the negative influences and our rising above them, I expect this will be done through our choices and our awareness. I don't expect us to be 'saved' by 4D beings in a big firetruck from the sky. I expect we will be given more and more truth, and with that we will start to move to where we gotta go.

[Parsons]

More stuff backing up what I said about there being a very limited time for making the choice of 3D:

However, far below the level of conscious awareness, you are more and more aware of your power, your truth, and your beauty. The thinning of the veil has been occurring for some time, as these energies interpenetrate more and more. At this time there is virtually nothing of third-density energy left. There is just enough energy left for a few more of your years in which entities can make the choices that will place them in a position to be able to graduate from third density to the density of love that is your fourth density.

[Huntress]

............
The secret of genius is that everything is an amassing of thought. The more you focus on any given thought, the more other thoughts that are like it, join it. A sort of combustion occurs that magnifies the depth of the original thought. The genius is There must be more to the story. Enlightenment is about more than just "work". There is another component in there, somewhere, hidden, yet discover-able.

They say, "Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

I believe "inspiration" is that component -- that quality that cannot be taught, or even learned through "work". I believe it is a sudden transcendence of illusion, of seeing things as they really are, that is a completely spontaneous and visceral recognition of the self as creator.
.............

This is an absolutely beautiful description of a process that resonates highly with me! Thank you for sharing! It strikes beautiful chords with me!

[zenmaster]

I think that the influence that the STS bring to this planet is much stronger than many like to think. Our subservience to them is part of 3D catalyst and is an integral part of their own 3D negative catalyst as well.

That is true, and it's also blatant allegory as well. That allegory is projected on others, often at the expense of honesty, due to lack of acceptance of self. Hence the conspiracies.

I don't see the same threats that you do.

That is for certain. And even what is considered a 'threat', to be sure.

As far as the transition being 'long', what if the 100-700 years period was given because Ra knew what our lifespans would be able to be lengthened to with the influx of 4D inspired technologies we would be seeing after the harvest?

I had suggested that, but now it is obvious to me that what ushers in '4D' more or less rapidly is the actual balancing of a sufficient number of individuals as part of the sub-logos system.

The latest reports from some Russian scientists are that they should have "immortality" figured out in the next 50 years; I could see a few 3D minds sticking it out as long as they can, and if the world is unfolding towards 4D I wouldn't blame them either. Didn't Ra say our "original" lifespans were programmed out at around 1000 years, but the distortions have become so great that we've whittled it down to 65 or whatever it is now. This to me is only greater proof that we are under heavy 'attack' from the STS as they end their own 3D cycles and strive for 4D negative.

Actual STS polarized are very few and far between, just like actual STO polarized, only less. The cultural overlay has 'whittled down' the average lifespan due to lack of bothering make use of available catalyst to polarize. In very simple terms, this allows us to 'try something else' more quickly, as we have limited time to progress in 3D. That is, given that our genetic disposition is key in having different catalyst to process, thus attempting to address another aspect of self offered by means of yet another body.

Now, many will interject here and say "but we're choosing these things", and I completely agree with that. We are choosing these things, and for right now, they are perfectly appropriate for 3D catalyst. However, I do feel there will be a point where these things will no longer becomes appropriate, and that may be sooner than later. I guess we'll see eventually

And we're choosing them of necessity. So once we stop inflating the mere surface of such catalyst and get into what it means to us personally, then we can ask other questions of ourselves. Not until.

[anagogy]

This is an absolutely beautiful description of a process that resonates highly with me! Thank you for sharing! It strikes beautiful chords with me!

I'm glad you liked it, however, you quoted it as coming from "Peregrinus", when it was actually a quote from me. Not that I really care who gets the credit for it, however, I just noticed the error, and thought I would point it out.

Cheers.

[Huntress]

This is an absolutely beautiful description of a process that resonates highly with me! Thank you for sharing! It strikes beautiful chords with me!

I'm glad you liked it, however, you quoted it as coming from "Peregrinus", when it was actually a quote from me. Not that I really care who gets the credit for it, however, I just noticed the error, and thought I would point it out.

Cheers.

I apologize. Sometimes my navigation of cut/paste/reply/quote features aren't the best when using iPad :-/

[hogey11]

@zen

I suppose I see a great yearning from the planetary whole to ask the questions you speak of (referring to ourselves and what these things truly mean to us) in what many consider 'negativity'. I think as much as we 3D folk can be stubborn in breaking out of our 3D cycles, so can 4D individuals be stubborn with putting up with much more 3D catalyst as we approach the tipping point. A perfect example to myself are some of the reality shows centered around 'fixing' something, whether it be their weight or a house or whatever. What we often see in these shows are broken people who have never been given the information or the support they needed to institute the teachings and habits into their life, and therefore, they hadn't. When given the tools and shown unwavering trust and support, they most often succeed. I think the vast majority of this planet is in the same boat; they are ready and willing to change and feel good about their lives, but they are under too much fire and are too ignorant to actually put together a game plan and stick to it. I feel a large aspect of this is a play by the STS elite; they cannot reach their own levels of ascension without a large part of us playing along, so to think they are not actively engaging with us is foolish. Imagine that! The most powerful entities on the planet may want to maintain their power through coercion and underhanded means... Is that really that hard to swallow, zen? Do you really think they're spending their afternoons wondering what's for dinner?

I agree with you that truly polarized STS individuals are far and few between, but I don't think that changes much. In order to hit that 95% STS mark, I remember reading that you have to be influences masses of people; not just be mean to the counter girl at safeway. You have to have layers and layers of power over huge multitudes of people. Look at the STS harvestables mentioned by Ra: Genghis Khan, Rasputin, etc. We're talking world leaders and conquerers. Now, if we're to extrapolate to today, and then we factor in that we're at end of cycle (ie: maximum development time) and i'd argue you really only need a few to make a difference. That plays very well into my point; The blankets thrown over us by the dark are heavy and thick. Could the lifting of these 'blankets' alone make a massive difference in our world?? (btw, an example of what I would consider a 'blanket' would be using Media to confuse and spread disinformation, or a program that is set up to 'protect' us but really ends up hurting us (military?))

Again tho, I see this all unfolding in 'real world' terms through information, technology, and awareness. I think we will trump the elite through knowledge; the only cavalry coming is one of information. We are all much smarter than the world likes us to think. When shown the realities of what is happening on the planet (which is already available for those who are willing to search), I think we'll have no problem working this all out. We are all one.

[Parsons]

Those with dual-activated bodies are far more able to see whether or not there is the necessity for further incarnations upon this planet. They will begin naturally to refrain from producing children. And so, by a fairly rapid progression after that point, the third-density population of the planet will indeed shrink in a natural and organic way, because there is the awareness that the dusk has come, the evening is at hand, and the work is done.

Those coming to the planet now, more and more, are not interested as much in working with the people of the planet to bring them to their metaphysical graduation as they are interested in balancing the somewhat frayed and tattered garment of earth which your planet wears. There is a great need among your many planetary populations to offer restitution of a planet-wide nature. This is because so many of your population are made up of those who have done damage to their planets in the past and who, because they have not been able to break their habits of seeing the Earth as something to be exploited, have again repeated that tendency to do damage.

Therefore, there is the desire to balance all remaining planet-wide karma by doing such humble things as restoring the quality of the soil, restoring the quality of the air, restoring the quality of the water and finding how to live in such a way that, in every facet of your common life, it is understood that you, your planet and all that lives upon it are dancing one dance together to the glory of the one infinite Creator.

[zenmaster]

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=2687

[xise]

I had a dream the other month (posted in the dream thread) with this type of harvest. that being said, I also had a recent dream that told me I was in 4d right now. and my who knows how accurate dowsing seems to say I'm inbetween 3d and 4d lol.

This thread was an interesting read.
According to what was in my head before I read the thread, I had developed my own theory. In my head I see a brilliant bright light filled with love coming down upon the earth and dematerializing us. We shall not fear because we will be at one with the infinite creator once again. We will know in our hearts that we are the creator. And this light to me is a perfect example of it. The thought seems to resonate with my soul too. So I'd say that this is MY personal harvest.

[Patrick]

Interesting question to Hatonn here.

...18. We do understand that knowing When? is very important to you, and I have asked Hatonn if he can give us an update on that.

Thank you for asking me, Matthew. First I want to say that I concur with everything you said about disclosure and why an official welcome is still on hold. And I thank you for explaining that our crews in ships are doing whatever they can to help you while they’re waiting to land and our ground crews are holding up their end too. We’ve been in readiness for a decade to get this show on the road!

But getting on to when we’ll be “announced,” safety still is an issue, of course, but the new key is the November presidential election in the United States. It’s essential that the Obama presidency continues. This has nothing at all to do with politics in that country or any other! It has everything to do with the Golden Age master plan!

The plan is according to what Gaia, Earth’s soul, wants. She wants a peaceful world with everyone having a fair share and everyone respecting all of her Nature realm. The highest universal council chose as a major player a soul with highly evolved spiritual status, ancient wisdom and world leadership experience in many lifetimes. That soul is Barack Obama.

He was born with and has retained Gaia’s vision of Earth, and he has the inspiration and qualifications to achieve it. His reelection is imperative to the plan going forward because his opponent isn’t capable of or interested in making the changes the plan requires.

We are totally apolitical and we’re NOT belittling Mitt Romney! It’s that he and those who share his views aren’t motivated to change the status quo where money’s concerned, and that gross inequity of the few with billions and the billions with little or nothing can’t go on and it won’t. Earth will not allow that imbalance to continue.

I think more of the big picture is needed here. The master plan included that some individuals would cause the various kinds of suffering that gave many, many souls the chance to wind up their third density karma and balance other lifetime experiences so they could go along with Earth. When that part of the plan was completed about ten years ago, those individuals were supposed to join the light forces. They didn’t, and that’s why wars, prejudices, corruption, greed, divisiveness, terrorism and other destructive third density conditions still are going on.

According to the original plan, by now all of that would have been long gone. It was intended that when Obama became president, he’d have worldwide support in unifying people of all nations and leading your world into the Golden Age. The plan called for you and us to meet up ten years ago and work together to clean up the mess on your planet caused by greedy, uncaring power players.

Well, we’re still waiting and Obama’s efforts to get reforms going have been blocked by his foes in the Congress or the moneyed individuals who control most members. Through either death threats to his family or bloc voting, Obama has been forced into decisions that are against his conscience and his world vision. After he knew that he and his family had our protection, his mind was relieved of that deep concern, but he still has had to deal with unyielding partisanship and blatant lies or distortions of facts.

That’s what’s on center stage in the US right now and what should be there is how that nation will cooperate with other countries to fix the sorry state your world is in! If our making an appearance becomes pivotal to Obama keeping his position, we’ll do that in sufficient time before the election. If we see that his reelection is certain, we’ll show up soon afterwards.

Again, this is NOT political! Once we’re there, political differences won’t be an issue in any country. The truth about us and many other situations that will be disclosed will be.

Matthew, that’s as close as I can come to a date when we’ll be “out in the open.” Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.

19. Hatonn, we thank you for explaining the situation so clearly and for the assurance that whether shortly before or shortly after that election day, the official welcoming of our universal family is soon! That ends our concerns that souls might choose to leave when nothing dynamic happens December 21st—the spectacular drama will come with the introduction of our “space” family!...

[BrownEye]

Interesting. A year ago I was told that Obama would be the next president, yet all this time I have seen no evidence to make me believe this.

[Parsons]

It may have seemed to you that it has been harder than usual lately, or than it used to be, for you to do this. And we would spend a moment talking about why that is. As third density upon planet Earth draws to a close, which it shall do within the next few years, there is a natural separation of those souls who have chosen to polarize towards service to others and those which have chosen to polarize towards service to self. It is as though oil and vinegar had been miscible for 75,000 of your years but as the time arrives for entities to choose between polarities and to move onto either service-to-self worlds or service-to-others worlds, there is more and more of a tendency for those two to separate, just as oil and water will if not artificially mixed together.

[zenmaster]

Interesting. A year ago I was told that Obama would be the next president, yet all this time I have seen no evidence to make me believe this.

It's more interesting that you'd believe what you are told regarding such a matter.

[xise]

Interesting. A year ago I was told that Obama would be the next president, yet all this time I have seen no evidence to make me believe this.

It's more interesting that you'd believe what you are told regarding such a matter.

Pickle it is interesting when we are told something, and we don't necessarily believe it, but we don't necessarily disbelieve it either, and then sometimes, just sometimes, we see things slowly start to unfold in such a way that the original message was true.

[zenmaster]

Interesting. A year ago I was told that Obama would be the next president, yet all this time I have seen no evidence to make me believe this.

It's more interesting that you'd believe what you are told regarding such a matter.

Pickle it is interesting when we are told something, and we don't necessarily believe it, but we don't necessarily disbelieve it either, and then sometimes, just sometimes, we see things slowly start to unfold in such a way that the original message was true.

It's called 'confirmation bias'.

[hogey11]

and what you're doing right now isn't the same thing, zen?

[zenmaster]

and what you're doing right now isn't the same thing, zen?

That's be just regular bias.

[Parsons]

Well this Q'uo'te is the final nail in the coffin of 3rd density on this planet for myself. I am now over 99% certain of my beliefs in "gradual vs abrupt" and don't feel right discussing it anymore because I am now fully biased towards my views.

I have no problem with those individuals who still believe in the concept of a gradual harvest.

However, with that being said, I do not wish to discuss/debate anything about this particular concept of abrupt/gradual any longer(due to my bias). Although, I will gladly welcome discussion/debate on anything not related to this and will also gladly welcome discussion having to do with the oncoming 4th Density (although not in this thread, as I feel it would be inappropriate). Another reason I do not want to discuss this further(after this post) is it has become a major stumbling block in my life for the past 10 months; as I was hovering between 70-95% certainty of abruptness, which is not sufficient to my largely scientifically/intellectually oriented mind which demands 99% certainty in order to form a clear opinion of anything.

We realize that it is difficult to imagine what shall happen after the year 2012, since that is when third density ends and fourth density begins. And we can only describe to you that which is to occur by asking you to realize that all of the densities of Planet Earth within this octave, one through seven, are nested together and interpenetrate each other, much as the various channels on your television set are nested together, being picked up by the same transmitters and receivers and being available by the turn of the knob from one to another to another.

Indeed, there are those among your peoples who are able to switch from the channel of third density to the channel of fourth density now, and who can somewhat reliably report on the development of fourth density. Fourth density, indeed, is fully formed at this time. Because it would violate the free will of third-density entities, fourth density chooses not to be seen, not to be visible to the five senses of your human bodies. Yet it is impossible to eliminate or hide the vibrations of fourth density, which are interpenetrating third density at this time.

This selected Q'uo'te also supports(in the second paragraph) the concept of being able to switch to 4D subjectively.

P.S. I received a right ear tone just moments ago when I was composing the above sentence(s) about my bias towards this subject, so I will take that as a confirmation that stating this bias is 'good' thing to do.

---

Further info directly related to this quote which address the caveat's of those who think this information too specific for Q'uo to channel it(from the same session):

N: Q’uo, with respect to your giving us the date of 2012, is this not considered as specific information? Would this not violate the law of free will?

We are those of Q’uo, and believe we understand your query, my brother. Were there to be no other source of information concerning this date, there might indeed be a concern on our part regarding offering such information as the precise date of the turning of the wheel for your planet from third density to fourth.

However, as it happens, the longstanding and widely respected work of astrologers upon your planet has for many of your centuries offered this date as that in which in one age, the Age of Pisces, turns to another age, the Age of Aquarius. There is also, as you are aware in this group for you have discussed it, the calendar of the Mayans, which also points to this date as the time when the central sun lines up in just a certain way with Planet Earth and the Sun, so that there starts a new Day at that time and the old Day is ended. Further than that, there are other sources, which have targeted this particular time as that time at which there is a shift in consciousness. Therefore, we have long confirmed these suppositions of those who came to us and questioned us as to the centrality of this date.

[Patrick]

Then rejoice in that belief my friend. In any case we only have 3 months to the day now before we find out.

But I must say that our new government, here in Québec, are already changing lots of things and giving me much hope.

[zenmaster]

"We realize that it is difficult to imagine what shall happen after the year 2012, since that is when third density ends and fourth density begins." So sometime after the year 2012, 3rd density ends and fourth density begins. When Carla indulges requests for specific info, it is humorous sometimes how the info is constructed - always another signpost intended to serve as a confirmation or validation.

[hogey11]

Not necessarily sometime after 2012; it could refer to 2012 itself as well.

In the quote, the use of the word 'that' doesn't necessarily refer to an arbitrary time after 2012, but could also refer to the individual year of 2012. If taken in this context, "since that (2012) is when 3rd density ends and 4th density begins" would be referring to a culmination point happening sometime in 2012 signifying the 'end' of 3D. I don't think it's that cut and dry; I can fully understand how Parsons reached his own conclusion, but i don't outright reject your own either.

---

complete tangent and i'm sorry if this has been covered before....

How does people's feelings on extraterrestrials, 'The Confederation', Orion entities, and possible disclosure affect their minds on the idea of harvest? Does anybody feel like they might be related in some way? most obviously, disclosure leading to an 'end of 3D' on the planet?

[TheInfinite1]

2012 will signify the transition of 3rd to 4th density like a clock striking the hour (as Ra states) and so it begins... Yet, the transition or evolution of the 4th density earth will not be instantaneous in the sense of a blink of an eye but will happen through the 3rd density fading away.

I do not give an exact time period for this transition but suggest only a few hundred years.


We will all live out our lives as intended. The 3rd density cannot stop abruptly and 4th density start - it is just as 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd it is an evolution. All things fall in to place like a puzzle, they are connected and continuously more densely complex. The 3rd density must first fall entirely away, becoming unmanifest, before 4th may be fully in effect.

The harvest is already now, 4th density is already manifested in time/space.

[AnthroHeart]

I just hope when Earth becomes 4D in space/time that I'm not left behind.