giving up on 2012 (you guys win)

[Avocado]

A sudden increasal in femenine energies yield the symptoms of the common cold.
Now think exactly how much femenine energies are (supposedly) coming our way, around the mentioned date... it might be lethal ammounts for those not capable of handling it.

Interesting. My dad had a cold in January for the first time in 20-30 years. I can't remember how many decades he said but it was definitely in that range.

I turn 21 on May 2nd, putting all of this together with my experiences over the last few weeks and I have a feeling some interesting times are close by. I feel completely at peace.

think you're right I remember a while back you mentioned a lot of us here on b4th are turning 21 this year. You said something interesting will happen near your birthday and I was thinking "yeah but not mine". Boy was I wrong. I'm finding peace again. It's difficult to express in words how grateful I am for our freedom to let it all fall away and simply be. My, what a wonderful thread this is. And Sagittarius... have a magical birthday!

[Sagittarius]

A sudden increasal in femenine energies yield the symptoms of the common cold.
Now think exactly how much femenine energies are (supposedly) coming our way, around the mentioned date... it might be lethal ammounts for those not capable of handling it.

Interesting. My dad had a cold in January for the first time in 20-30 years. I can't remember how many decades he said but it was definitely in that range.

I turn 21 on May 2nd, putting all of this together with my experiences over the last few weeks and I have a feeling some interesting times are close by. I feel completely at peace.

think you're right I remember a while back you mentioned a lot of us here on b4th are turning 21 this year. You said something interesting will happen near your birthday and I was thinking "yeah but not mine". Boy was I wrong. I'm finding peace again. It's difficult to express in words how grateful I am for our freedom to let it all fall away and simply be. My, what a wonderful thread this is. And Sagittarius... have a magical birthday!

Thanks mate, amazing how much you can change in a short period of time. Just comparing my way of thinking this time last year compared to now and the difference is staggering.

Imagine how different we will all be this time next year (if we don't disappear )

[AnthroHeart]

Imagine how different we will all be this time next year (if we don't disappear )

What if you're already in 4D and haven't realized it? Just a thought.
Maybe letting go of the belief of "I'm in 3D or I'm in 4D".

We create our reality. I choose to believe that I just am, wherever I am. I let the Universe bring to me what needs to be in order to be who I truly am.

[Avocado]

Thanks mate, amazing how much you can change in a short period of time. Just comparing my way of thinking this time last year compared to now and the difference is staggering.

Imagine how different we will all be this time next year (if we don't disappear )

Isn't it? I was still half asleep this time last year. It's almost my anniversary hahaha I wonder how much quicker it's gonna go by this time around?

[Ruth]

Well happy birthday to both of you, I turn 27 on Monday. Good first post and welcome.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUNCANIDAHOTPF! Hope your day is spectacular!

[Bang Kaew]

A question to gradualist logic: if the harvest is going to end up being small (although somewhat improved as was stated later on by Q'uo), what percentage of the population is that? Let's sat 5% for the sake of argument. What happens to the other 95% of the population between now and then?

Firstly, i'd estimate it to be around 15%...

A sudden increasal in femenine energies yield the symptoms of the common cold.
Now think exactly how much femenine energies are (supposedly) coming our way, around the mentioned date... it might be lethal ammounts for those not capable of handling it.

Ive experienced a functioning dampening cold two or three times in my life, for i have barely ever needed to increase in order to fight the viruses around me.. the most recent was due to my green ray going from gold towards bright gold.

that is what I deduced. Q'uo said something about after 2012 those not harvested would help repair the planet and therefore pay some of the debt they accumulated from damaging the planet. Also that the 3d work ends so that would imply that the people here would only be those that were harvested to 4d+ and the unharvested.

It is a very exciting time for your planet and for those of us who have watched your people through a great deal of difficult learning. We see better rates of awakening, shall we say, than the probability vortices of, say, thirty years in the past would have suggested. And we are humbly grateful to be a small part of that energy that has pressed towards the light, has called to the light, and has anchored that light in relatively undistorted form. We thank each heart that beats, “love, love, love.” Thank you for the unimaginable effort that it takes each of you to keep your mind, your thoughts, and your heart on the beam, as this instrument would say. It is easy to be distracted by very many things and we find ourselves applauding the efforts of each of you to stay awake and stay on task.

....

One reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. As the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. Therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet Earth. Consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes.
In terms of your living out your natural life, there is no physical catastrophe that is necessary in order to express the changes that the planet is going through. Humankind is another story in terms of the possibility of planetary disaster. The planet itself does not need to extinguish itself in order for fourth density to emerge. However, there is a troubling tendency within humankind to use violence and the expressions of violence of which your people are capable at this time. The only reason for fear that we would see in the picture that we look at at this time is that tendency among your people to feel that it is possible to create a better situation than the one that is currently had by destroying people, buildings and the environments with your weapons of mass destruction. Enough of those weapons of mass destruction going off at one time could indeed remove life from the planet entirely.

....

In terms of what is happening to the planet, the third-density planet Earth on which you live is gradually exhausting its capacity to offer an environment in which third-density entities can incarnate. The energies have been strengthened, especially in the last ten years or so, as we said, by many groups such as yours who gather for reasons larger than themselves, and you have in common a great love for the Creator and a great desire to serve the Creator.
This whole-hearted stretching and reaching for the light and this growing desire to learn the truth among so many of your people have greatly aided the situation as regards the strength of the field of third density at this time. It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. It is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. However, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over.
Those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet Earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as Dewey. It is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. This is perfectly in order.
And, indeed, that which remains to be done by entities living in third-density bodies on planet Earth is, for the most part, not personal but rather has to do with the energy of so many among your people, which has a kind of group karma to it. This energy is that which those among your people who have destroyed parts of their planet or their entire planet in previous attempts at third-density evolution have carried with them to this point. There is a lot of healing that various entities for various reasons wish to accomplish. In many cases they do not even really know how to accomplish this healing process. More and more entities, we feel, will find a connection between their own health, in terms of their spiritual health, and the health of the planet on which they live..

....

Eventually, your planet will no longer be able to sustain the evolutionary energy necessary to live a third-density life. Once this has occurred and there are no longer any third-density entities dwelling on the planet, fourth density will indeed become able not only to interpenetrate third density but to appear. At this point in its development, all of fourth density chooses not to appear. It chooses to remain as an unseen energy in order to allow the third-density entities to complete their patterns.

....

You cannot become a fourth-density entity within third density. However you would be surprised how deep a change that you can make in the life of your body, as well as your mind and your spirit, by disciplining your thoughts. This instrument has talked many times about trying to live with fourth-density values, seeing what you can do, when you become aware of the thoughts that you are thinking, to examine them for what they may have to offer you. It is very helpful to see what you are thinking about and then to ask yourself if you could perhaps tune that instrument that you are to clearer and more productive thoughts.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0101.aspx

and... from 06...

You have time to direct your thinking and to pursue your seeking. There are some years yet of third-density energy. We do encourage you, however, to move ahead at this time with your choice-making and to be as faithful as you can to the intention of that first choice. For you enter now into a time, in perhaps six or seven of your years, when you shall no longer be able to make that initial choice. Time is short.

...

The work of this group and many, many others like it, as well as many individuals working alone in terms of physicality, have created a grace period. Since 1998 in your counting, you have been living on grace alone. This grace continues. It shall not continue beyond a certain point. For you see, at a certain point it is as though there were energies mixed in a glass of water.

Your Earth shall become, in the fullness of time, a fourth-density positive planet. However, there is a golden period that is coming for your people. It is a time when those entities who have graduated third density and who are very concerned with the karmic patterns of their past are going to be able to create a time of restitution on planet Earth.

It will be a difficult time. It will be a challenging time. For the technology that you have currently created will not be adequate to the needs of the future. You will be creating new ways to do things. But the energy that is among you will clear tremendously from that which you are experiencing at this time. Those entities among you at this time that are attempting to graduate service to self will have moved on. Those entities who remain upon the planet shall be those positively-oriented entities whose concerns involve restitution to this planet.

from the above it would seem that ONLY those graduated to 4d+ will remain. But then we have;

There is another group of entities who shall be upon your planet for some time into the future if they so choose. These are entities who are not able to graduate into fourth density, or higher densities if they were wanderers, but who yet feel that karmic pull and wish to make restitution. Those include many who are alive at this time, and you will find that many entities will be attempting more and more to refocus upon the needs of the planet and its resources. They will be wishing to clean its water, its air, and its soil.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0416.aspx

[Monica]

that is what I deduced. Q'uo said something about after 2012 those not harvested would help repair the planet and therefore pay some of the debt they accumulated from damaging the planet.

Nowhere did Q'uo say that those staying on the planet to help it heal, were those not harvestable. They may be harvestable but have just chosen to stay.

[Sagittarius]

Imagine how different we will all be this time next year (if we don't disappear )

What if you're already in 4D and haven't realized it? Just a thought.
Maybe letting go of the belief of "I'm in 3D or I'm in 4D".

We create our reality. I choose to believe that I just am, wherever I am. I let the Universe bring to me what needs to be in order to be who I truly am.

I have been thinking about your experiences and my own from the past couple of weeks. The concept of 4d just being a change in thinking and not of the physical is interesting and I feel it is true in sense. I have no doubt we are accessing 4d at this very moment however It feels like only a trickle of a stream at the moment. At least for me.

Perhaps 4d is just everyone in 3d in-tune with there heart, walking there paths as there higher-self envisioned when it planned this experience.

As more and more people get in-tune, the more obvious 4d will become.

[Bang Kaew]

that is what I deduced. Q'uo said something about after 2012 those not harvested would help repair the planet and therefore pay some of the debt they accumulated from damaging the planet.

Nowhere did Q'uo say that those staying on the planet to help it heal, were those not harvestable. They may be harvestable but have just chosen to stay.

There is another group of entities who shall be upon your planet for some time into the future if they so choose. These are entities who are not able to graduate into fourth density, or higher densities if they were wanderers, but who yet feel that karmic pull and wish to make restitution. Those include many who are alive at this time, and you will find that many entities will be attempting more and more to refocus upon the needs of the planet and its resources. They will be wishing to clean its water, its air, and its soil.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0416.aspx

that was why but might have interpreted it wrong

[Ashim]

Those wanderers of higher densities and of negative polarity will at some stage wish to switch their orientation to a more positive one and thus choose to repeat (at least in part) the 3rd density experience. This, I feel is what is meant by restitution.

[Parsons]

Does he have to quote this a 3rd time? Here, I'll highlight just the important part that proves his point:"Those include many who are alive at this time".

This is referring to the people repeating 3rd, not referring to 4D- .

@bang kaew Thank you for your extensive quotes, they were enlightening.

[AnthroHeart]

I have no doubt we are accessing 4d at this very moment however It feels like only a trickle of a stream at the moment. At least for me.

Yeah, for me it feels quite strong, although now it's settling down. It was intense there for a bit.

[Lycen]

The "harvest" has been something which has troubled me in many ways. So much that I have evaded talking about it, kept my thoughts. Even thought of making a threat about it. I have noticed more than once, that people think basically 2012 is it. And for some reason I find this troubling. Truly I do not feel that something of such magnitude as all suddenly "disappearing" would happen. But I can not rule it out either. I find that "third density" is slow and thus everything takes its sweet time. So I think will the shift. But that's speculation on my part. I think the point of this(my) post is that I worry a little over the expectations some chose to have. It is probably foolish as I think people here can deal withe such realities. Will understand, should not their expectations fulfill.
I just may have noticed one too many a innocent joke, over this matter which has brought out these doubts.
Love to you all

[Cyan]

I feel the future is as follows:

By 2030 we will reach technological singularity ANYWAY and live forever.

IT is likely that all those in this realm at this moment who have basic physical health and strive to have extended physical health will live around the year 10.000AD which will enable the future self to contact the same past self, and as we become more aware of that we are right now in ar eality matrix where this brain can literally live forever. We assume we live forever, and such a transition in thoughts is the "veil" because we realise that the history beyond 19th century is all or can all be a fabrication and in reality it is just "us" in "someplace" and that someplace is no reaching a point of infinite time while within a finite body. This offers unbeliavable opportunities in mental developement. Nothing will have to be postponed because "it would take too long" because such a defence would make no sense. Any self inhibiting due to mortality or time is gone. IF that isnt 4th D i dont know what is. Forever life for all those alive now who strive for it and are willing to accept that such a thing would require the world around to change, and the morals and such to change. THe more you accept the coming change the more likely the stress wont end up killing you. IF you just accept that you are in an eternal simulation that runs forever adn this body can actually within time acheive anything it wishes for as long as it wishes, you can have anything you ever want. As this becomes more commonly knows, its likely that the veil will just vanish because it will no longer make sense to think of a paradise beyond death as better than the paradise now. And all hierarchical models besides absolutely the present moment will no longer make sense. So, no authority models, no hierarchies, just the infinite present moment and a never ending paradise of infinite fractal reality =)

[AnthroHeart]

I like the way you put it Cyan, "never ending paradise of infinite fractal reality"

[JustLikeYou]

Have there not been moments of sudden change in your life? Times when the lightning has struck? So it will be. But these moments will be followed by periods of gradual change.

[godwide_void]

I ponder upon one facet of the circumstances of 4D in regards to the split, particularly the notion that those who are harvestable will remain upon this planet for further 4D experience and those who would need to repeat the 3D cycle will be sent to a planet essentially identical to ours, and their reality will go about 'as normal'.

In the instance of a family in which half of its members are harvested and half will remain, how can the sudden disappearance of their relatives be explained? If things are to go as normal following the alleged 'zero-point time' event which will befall those who remain, then would there be some 3D essence of the harvested left behind? Or will the spontaneous disappearance of relatives serve as catalyst and a 'breadcrumb' type event in which those who remain will be left with solving the mystery of mass disappearances following whatever event is set to occur?

I can envision that the 3D experience for many who remain will be centered on solving the mystery of this catalytic event which will be the essential stepping stone leading to their discovery of the true nature of things and their own awakenings.


@Cyan: I take it that your speculation is derived from Ray Kurzweil's work upon the Singularity which humanity will soon reach in which the definition of human will be blurred if there indeed does occur a technological/cybernetic symbiosis of mankind. With our rapidly growing knowledge of biochemistry and advances in the field of nanotechnology such a scenario is plausible indeed. This coupled with the psychological and mental singularities we will reach, upon the foundation of the transcendence of our current level of consciousness will entail one all-encompassing singularity of the divine variety.

Although, let's consider the notion that in 4D our minds will be the direct focal point of creative manifestation of our reality. You have perhaps heard that musing that "Heaven will be what you envision it to be". Perhaps 4D is the same. If we all assume the role of advanced storytellers then perhaps our own particular conceptions of 4D will directly create it. Maybe our individual universes will function upon their own paradigms while at the same time overlapping with all others and intertwining with them? Who knows?

We will simply have to wait and see.

[Cyan]

In my view of the void such is true. The transition from 3rd D to 4th D will transition as you mention. But from 3rd to 5th it is somewhat different i believe. BUt structrually sound theory and i agree entirely but add my interpretation to the whole

[Bang Kaew]

I feel the future is as follows:

By 2030 we will reach technological singularity ANYWAY and live forever.

IT is likely that all those in this realm at this moment who have basic physical health and strive to have extended physical health will live around the year 10.000AD which will enable the future self to contact the same past self, and as we become more aware of that we are right now in ar eality matrix where this brain can literally live forever. We assume we live forever, and such a transition in thoughts is the "veil" because we realise that the history beyond 19th century is all or can all be a fabrication and in reality it is just "us" in "someplace" and that someplace is no reaching a point of infinite time while within a finite body. This offers unbeliavable opportunities in mental developement. Nothing will have to be postponed because "it would take too long" because such a defence would make no sense. Any self inhibiting due to mortality or time is gone. IF that isnt 4th D i dont know what is. Forever life for all those alive now who strive for it and are willing to accept that such a thing would require the world around to change, and the morals and such to change. THe more you accept the coming change the more likely the stress wont end up killing you. IF you just accept that you are in an eternal simulation that runs forever adn this body can actually within time acheive anything it wishes for as long as it wishes, you can have anything you ever want. As this becomes more commonly knows, its likely that the veil will just vanish because it will no longer make sense to think of a paradise beyond death as better than the paradise now. And all hierarchical models besides absolutely the present moment will no longer make sense. So, no authority models, no hierarchies, just the infinite present moment and a never ending paradise of infinite fractal reality =)

in regard to the length of time left for 3d bodies, Q'uo said;
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0101.aspx

This whole-hearted stretching and reaching for the light and this growing desire to learn the truth among so many of your people have greatly aided the situation as regards the strength of the field of third density at this time. It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. It is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. However, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over.

my interpretation of the last bit is; your fate will be decided this year but you live out your life naturally. 3d work is making the choice. By 2013 you have already submitted your decision.

[3DMonkey]

What if it's like this:

I am going to be part of a sixth density collective.

There must be some 2D and 1D beings that will be part of my 6D being.

For giggles, say I am harvestable to 4D. What if, at the striking of the hour, my 3D graduates to 4D, and my 6D being simultaneously promotes our 2D being into my current 3D self.

This would be a shift and non would be wiser.

Lol.

[Meerie]

I think you are going to be harvested very very soon if you continue posting like this... first at 8:08, now at 9:09
presumably the second you make your post at 12:12 you are going to ascend.
That is my gut feeling

[Patrick]

What if it's like this:

I am going to be part of a sixth density collective.

There must be some 2D and 1D beings that will be part of my 6D being.

For giggles, say I am harvestable to 4D. What if, at the striking of the hour, my 3D graduates to 4D, and my 6D being simultaneously promotes our 2D being into my current 3D self.

This would be a shift and non would be wiser.

Lol.

So we all become walk-ins.

[Parsons]

Oooo! Let's do some Vegas-style gambling! I bet he's gonna ascend at 12:21 ! :p

[Namaste]

Just to add, along with Monica and Gemini, I've noticed some differences with people. Firstly, I hardly ever (if at all) meet new people who are negative. I keep bumping into really helpful people. Whenever I've needed something, someone has popped up and helped out, totally out of the blue. It's absolutely amazing!

My partner is also a different person. Well, let me re-phrase that, I am manifesting a different version of my partner, as my heart is open more than before, which of course directs the manifestation.

Near instant manifestation is also becoming quite common, and I don't mean creating a boat, or anything physical :¬) More so synchronistic opportunities that enable one to follow their passion.

Happy times indeed!

Regarding the harvest/2012, it's something I do not plan for, as in doing so , you immediately step out of the eternal now. If you stay in the moment with an open heart, everything will unfold perfectly. Instant, gradual, anything. All is possible, and all is subjective to each of us.

[freestonew]

hi all.

I just read this on yahoo news.

http://news.yahoo.com/ephren-taylor-accu...ories.html

Ephren Taylor Accused of $11 Million Christian Ponzi Scheme by SEC

"Everything he says is based on the word of God," Long pledged to the members of his megachurch. But Taylor wasn't a visiting minister. He was a financial adviser, one who claimed to have made his first million before he turned 18. And he promised he could do the same for his fellow Christians.

"We're going to show you how to get wealth and use it for the building of his kingdom," Taylor shouted to the congregation one morning in 2009. It was all part of what he called his "Building Wealth Tour," which crisscrossed the country touting his investments and financial advice.

But according to the Securities and Exchange Commission, what Taylor was actually peddling was a giant Ponzi scheme, one aimed to "swindle over $11 million, primarily from African-American churchgoers," that reached into churches nationwide, from Long's megachurch in Atlanta to Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church congregation in Houston.

this galled me a bit.
--then i realized that this person traded upon the trust of his fellow black churchmenbers and in other black churches, to make huge money. He attracted people who see money as an end, not as a means.

but one thing that I see, of late, is just how much "stuff" comes out, in the collective.
the cockroaches have less and less shelter to hide under!
And...people like this undermine many young people's implicit trust in all institutions and of people in Authority too! No wonder the young tend to see Jesus as just another MF-er who tells you what the F to do with your life!
Love..truth..goodness have no form. No shape. Not *a* man, or an institution.

maybe in the 4D/5D worlds there will be no churches or icons. no dogmas.

Thus I see more and more dirt coming out, sex scandals, hazing of college band members where no one in the Administration does much as the good old boy system Protects...
[here in Tallahassee with a school]

freestone

[3DMonkey]

We all know what 2012 is. We've known it the minute we started thinking about it.

It's a thought for a purpose. Just a thought whose purpose is known only to the thinker.

[hogey11]

I want to inject a few ideas into the mix. I've fleshed them out more in past posts, but I feel they spice up the harvest conversation for myself.

First, i'll say that I believe that it will be both a sudden and gradual transition in different perspectives. In the sudden perspective, I believe there will definitely be an 'a-ha!' moment. It will not be shared throughout all of humanity, but I believe this will come in the form of information or an event that will blow up the entire planet's worldview. I think the most obvious example of something like this would be disclosure or first contact. It could also happen suddenly as an energetic shift leading to physical/perceptual changes, but like JustLikeYou mentioned above, these types of events would be followed by long periods of gradual change. So enters the gradual perspective, relating to things like the technological singularity and the future of this planet. I think these ideas have been fleshed out well enough, so I will not repeat them here.

The first idea I find interesting is the whole 3D/4D body thing. A certain quote that stood out to me from Ra was that the 4D body was 'more electrical in nature' to our current chemical-natured 3D bodies. For myself, the first thing that pops into my head is the brain and technology. Our brains and nervous systems run with electricity already, but much of these processes are triggered and controlled by chemical processes which act as controllers of these functions. Could the shift to 4D include the gained control over our bodies like we control our minds in 3D? Can our consciousness expand beyond our minds and include our bodies and the world around us, thus signalling the shift to 4D? This could also be bridged by technology. Instead of having to rely on our bodies to create the proper effects for optimal health, we could develop nanotechnology that gives you control of not only your body's health, but also your appearance and other factors. The explosion of technology that we can expect over the next few decades (granted we don't blow ourselves up) means that no idea is off the table. The problem with this idea is that it's very utopian and not very realistic. This is where intervention comes in for myself.

If we are to accept the Ra material, we pretty much also need to accept the idea of ET life. We are told about the quarantine as a condition of 3D catalyst. However, the shift from 3D to 4D includes the dropping of the veil and therefore, the dropping of the quarantine. We are told by Ra that our planet was ending the 75,000 year 3D cycle near or around 2011. For myself, there has to be some acceptance to the fact that when the veil drops, the possibility of ET intervention and disclosure is very possible as an ushering-in of the 4D cycle. The only thing keeping them back now is the quarantine; when it is gone, so are the obstacles between them and us. If Q'uo is to be believed, this planet is going to 4D+ with no problems. I also have a theory on that.

Some have a problem with my ideas because they don't see how our shitty, broken world could ever be 4D+ enough to be harvestable. I see harvest rates of 10-15% and all these really conservative estimates that don't resonate with me at all. Here's my idea: I think that the way that the system works, when a soul becomes harvestable before the end of cycle, they step back and stop reincarnating for a bit. In return for this act, they are promised and given a spot for the 'closing ceremonies' of 3D so they can physically ascend with the planet as a reward, for lack of better word. Now, at the time the Law of One was channeled, RA was still quite doubtful of our planet's ability to be positively harvested. Since that time, Q'uo has said that we have easily risen the vibrations to a positive harvest through a large influx of wanderers and high-vibration earth souls incarnating on this sphere. If we look at planetary population, the world went from 3.5 billion people to 7 billion today over the last 30 years alone. My assumption is that this huge spike in population is linked to the influx of 'graduated' souls and wanderers who have intended to be incarnated here for the planetary ascension. I believe Ra speaks a little about this (or it was Q'uo) with the harmonic convergence date of 1976 or something close to that. My feeling is that past that date, a number of the 'graduated' souls started to incarnate in order to aid and help in the ascension process. Since the LOO was channeled only 5-6 years later than this date, we can't have expected Ra to know that such a large population spike would occur. We also have no idea how many wanderers have been sent/chose to come here. These are all things that make me question the hard language Ra uses in his information regarding Harvest.

I think Ra's language is the hardest aspect of discussing the harvest - RA did not make it easy. Death is a dead-end word for many; it can't be interpreted as much else than a very concrete idea in our heads (the end of this). However, RA also likens dreaming to death in other passages, so I think we need to be careful. I believe Ra likes to poke at us with this language; their own little easter egg of 3D catalyst within the teachings themselves. RA didn't want to remove any catalyst from our possibilities by softening the message (dude, hover cars are coming! and free money! just meditate in your basement and wait it out...). RA wanted to challenge us, and does so by throwing our broken concept of 'death' in our faces just like many of the other great teachers we have been given by the source like Jesus and Buddha. We have to let go of our attachment to this world and density; in this way, I believe a harvest event would act as a death event for most of us. Would any of us not feel like a completely different person if we were told we no longer had to play 'the game' anymore? I know I would. We must die to ourselves; I don't believe this means we die in a physical sense. We die in a perceptual sense.

I covered this is past threads much more deeply, but here again we come to certain concepts that Ra gives us. When we and the planet ascend to 4D, the 3D sphere deactivates because it is incompatible with the 4D sphere. RA says this is because someone in 4D would not be able to trick themselves into a 3D mindset; the veil no longer applies and it becomes nearly impossible. In this way, I believe this supports the gradual & sudden views; if we experience something like disclosure, could we really just return to the way things were beforehand? Could we just laugh about it, go to bed, and get up the next day and do the exact same thing as before? For how long could we forget about it? For me, these types of events could easily signify a 'death-type' event for all on earth. Something that also stuck out to me was that while the 3D and 4D bodies cannot coexist, the 1D and 2D bodies stay activated through both. RA claims that the 1D/2D body can survive without the 3D/4D, but not for long as the physical vessel is not designed to be without the higher density body (ie: we're soft, breakable, and would be savage). The interesting thing to me is that this opens the possibility that at the 'sudden' harvest point, our 3D minds 'die' as our 4D minds begin, and for a short time (who knows? 5 seconds? 5 hours? 3 days?) our bodies are purely 1D/2D as we transition. Maybe we just sleep during that time - I don't know.

I feel like my brain just threw up all over this thread. I'm sure most of this seems like rambling crazy talk, but thanks for putting up with me! Ultimately, all this harvest talk will always degenerate to "let's wait and see!".... sooooo let's wait and see!

[3DMonkey]

I always enjoy hogey11's input. Seems you remain as you were, .

If I readjust your writings to be analogy, they work very well for me.

[hogey11]

readjustment is excellent! I think sometimes we have to work at seeing how everyone is right. Between the 'sudden' and 'gradual' camps... Why can't it be both? Maybe that's why it was never plainly determined. All is one. If we can build ideas upon each other and around each other we end up in a better place. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to identify where each person is right without turning on the other for what they had wrong. Challenges aren't wrong if they're honest.

[Meerie]

readjustment is excellent! I think sometimes we have to work at seeing how everyone is right. Between the 'sudden' and 'gradual' camps... Why can't it be both? Maybe that's why it was never plainly determined.

Funny, that reminds me of the excellent video of Alan Watts on meditation, that Namaste linked... he goes into detail about meditation, and he makes an analogy about sounds... there are short abrupt sounds, like the toc toc sound of a clock, and more elongated sounds, like if you chant "Om" and let it slowly fade away. And when the om sound vanishes you start hearing the ambient noises and he used this analogy to say "all is one", it all blends into one in the end.
It reminded me of the sudden- versus gradual harvest debate.
I think it can be both, definitely. All is one