My Thoughts On STS

[Shin'Ar]

It seems that it is not popular to express one's interpretations of the Ra material with regard to STS here in this forum.

It is obvious that most here are STS oriented and so my thoughts become agitating to them.

I think I will rpobably not be welcome here if I continue to offer my interpretataion of the Law of One and so I will avoid this particular forum and stick to the Olio Forum.

[Tenet Nosce]

[Shin'Ar]

And thus the mentality that I hope to avoid! I mean why would a person even bother to make a post like the one above except to be insulting and provoking? Not the kind of person I wish to share my field with.

[Tenet Nosce]

Instead of insulted and provoked, you might try humored and enlightened.

Or keep doing what you are doing... cause you know... assigning labels of "STS" to others is a very high-level "STO" behavior. I'm sure some very positive things will come of that. Not at all insulting or provoking to declare the rest of the forum to be "STS" because they don't agree with your opinions.

[Shin'Ar]

assigning lables of STS to others??

If you would like to explain what you mean I will discuss that with you. But I assure you that your post above is any indication of what you consider enlightenment or humor the discussion will be short indeed.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thanks for the invitation to share my thoughts as they relate to the above graphical humor.

The caption says "As You Wish"... meaning... as you choose to see things so will they appear in your reality. Do you choose to see attack? Or do you choose to see love?

Personally speaking, I tend to react to discussions of STO/STS from the level of the indigo ray which acknowledges the folly of attempting to sway belief in another who has chosen to explore a certain perspective.

The Law of One says that there is no distinction between self and other. To serve others is to serve the self, and to serve the self is to serve others.

If one approaches the Law of One from a dualistic mindset, then even this most simple message of unity becomes divided. The universe is suddenly carved into two camps of the "Light" and the "Dark" eternally battling for supremacy. Thus does the illusion begin.

We are now in the penumbra of fourth density. Ra says:

The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle.

Those of fourth density consciousness will continue to see the necessity of battle until they naturally grow out of this somewhat juvenile state. It doesn't really matter if Ra- a sixth-density being- declares that the battle is folly as the foolish will continue to ignore these words, or find some way to twist them into something they are not. To those who are lacking in wisdom, there is no value seen in learning from the experience of others who have gone before you. Thus, it is somewhat pointless for those who are more wise to attempt to offer their enlightened views.

That being said, let's see what another highly evolved entity has to say on the subject:

The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues, Session 7
10 Apr 92

Aaron: My greetings and love to you all. I am Aaron. I would like to continue where we left off last night, to ask you to consider service in still newer ways. Service is a manifestation of love. We spoke last night about being service rather than doing service and of the ways that doing creates a distortion of self and other, of server and served. Being service is simply opening yourself and moving away from any duality.

Something I find very interesting is that those of you who aspire to serve, grasp so hard at something that is innate to you. It is not that you must work in order to serve. That is natural to you. When you are not “being service” there is a distortion. Your energy is being distorted into some misconception of separation. Therefore, the ideal is not to aspire to serve but simply to pay attention to where that pure “being service” is blocked by fear.

I spoke last night of intention, of moving away from the limiting concept of service to self and service to others—which is quite disorienting because service to others is service to self and vice versa—and to begin to see with clarity the ways that service to others springs from a ground of love and service to self springs from a ground of fear.[1]

When you begin to see the intention to offer love or to react to fear, to allow fear to direct your choices, then you can move away from the concept of service to self or other-self and towards the pure experience of “being service” or the pure experience of reactivity to fear.

Once you move away from the concept and into the experience, those of you with strong positive polarity will find the experience of “being fear” is an ample check in itself. As soon as you allow the reality of that experience to arise in you, something within you stops and pays attention and says, “No, this is not the way I choose to express my energy.” You then allow yourself both to be aware of the fear and non-reactive to it, so that the aspect of “being love” and expressing service through the being of love can manifest itself.

The most important point to remember here is that expressing service through being service in love is natural to you. And when you do that, you are not doing anything; you are not creating anything. You are simply expressing your own true nature. When that nature is in full harmony with the external positive energy which may move through you, your energy to serve is magnified. At that point, you do not need to ask, “How can I best serve?” You simply choose the paths that lie right at your feet, whatever they are.

So there we have it. There is the answer we seek. It was given nearly twenty years ago.

Yet some still want to belabor the point. They want to debate endlessly over the topic. Why? For what purpose?

Either we choose to believe as Ra, Q'uo, and Aaron, have quite clearly and unequivocally instructed us. Or we choose to believe that they don't really know what they are talking about.

Which do you choose?

[@ndy]

But I assure you that your post above is any indication of what you consider enlightenment or humor the discussion will be short indeed.

Well that statment is just screaming 'love and acceptance' too me

[Shin'Ar]

But I assure you that your post above is any indication of what you consider enlightenment or humor the discussion will be short indeed.

Well that statment is just screaming 'love and acceptance' too me

And again someone who chooses to make an insult out of the blue not even part of the discussion.

[@ndy]

Was a observation - not an insult.

I'm sorry If I have offended you.

[Shin'Ar]

Tenet you will have to explain how Aarons quote above suggests that he is implaying that ST is a good thing compared to STO.

I have read it and it seems to me that you are mistaking his 'being in service' as meaning STS.

Is that what you derive from this quote?

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Was a observation - not an insult.

I'm sorry If I have offended you.

Of course, and I choose to believe you.

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet you will have to explain how Aarons quote above suggests that he is implaying that ST is a good thing compared to STO.

I have read it and it seems to me that you are mistaking his 'being in service' as meaning STS.

Is that what you derive from this quote?

No, I take the quote as literally meaning what it says. Perhaps this next section will help to clear it up for you:

Aaron: I am Aaron. There is another area of duality and misunderstanding of which I would like to speak. You identify those who bring love to others as those who serve others. The attributes of those who “are service” are gentleness, patience and generosity. And you identify those who cause others pain in some way; those who affront others and are greedy or arrogant, as those who do not serve others. I would like to explore this a bit further.

Most of you have heard me say that we are all beings of light, even those who manifest very little of that light; even those who are very negatively polarized and in the conscious levels of self would affirm their desire to serve negativity. Even those who feed off the fear and pain of others, at some level, are servants of the light. It is well to move past the duality of seeing them in such sharp contrast as good and evil; servants of love or ones against love.

Some of you have heard me tell a brief story about the spiritual teacher Gurdjieff, that in his community there was a man who was very unpleasant to others. He did not do his share of the work. He spoke in a harsh way to others. He was arrogant and prideful. He even smelled foul and did not take care of his physical body. Nobody wanted his presence. The others in the community were in great accord with each other and everything ran smoothly except for this one unpleasant being.

He got tired of the way people were treating him and one day he packed up and left. Gurdjieff went after him and asked him to come back. The man, of course, refused. Gurdjieff then offered to pay him to come back. Those of the community were aghast at this: “How could you pay him to come back? We were well rid of him.”

Gurdjieff said, “He is the yeast for the bread. How would you learn compassion without a catalyst for that compassion? How would you learn non-judgment without a catalyst for that non-judgment?”

Granted, there are negatively-polarized entities. There are those who thrive on the fear and pain of others. There are beings that are mired in deep misunderstanding, and yet, even their negative polarity and misunderstanding is a service. How would you learn without such catalysts?

When you can begin to view such misunderstanding and negativity as another way of service to the light, you begin to view such individuals differently. For most of them, it is not their intention to serve the light, although for some that may be true. No being whose intention is to serve the light will willingly do so through causing harm and pain to others. So it is not their intention; but nevertheless, they do serve the light by offering you the catalyst that you need for your own learning.

When you can begin to find welcome for such beings, to move beyond your judgment of them and open your heart to them, to the very real pain that their misunderstanding causes for them, and to thank them for the ways in which they offer you the catalyst that you need, then you can begin to do the same for yourself in those moments when fear and other negative emotions arise in you. I have spoken often of the reverse of this, of coming to a place of non-judgment of yourself as a way of learning non-judgment of others. I am just offering the opposite side of the coin.

STO and STS are two sides of the same coin. Heads is only better than tails if one is emotionally invested in the outcome. Ultimately, there is no coin, and the outcome is already assured.

[Shin'Ar]

What the second quote says is that there is value in learning the opposite of what is good, so that we can better understand that which is good by comparison. it does not suggest that there is good in its opposite.

The two are opposite because they are not the same.

I have read enough of the Ra material to understand that Ra in no way condones STS as the better path. What Ra does eloquently is point out the differences and the facts. That it goes misunderstood by thoe who are STS oriented is no surprise.

[Tenet Nosce]

What the second quote says is that there is value in learning the opposite of what is good, so that we can better understand that which is good by comparison. it does not suggest that there is good in its opposite.

The two are opposite because they are not the same.

I thank you for your service in reminding me of the folly of attempting to discuss this topic of the illusory nature of the STO/STS dualistic paradigm. It has strengthened my resolve to trust in my inner wisdom and knowing, and to bolster my faith that each of us is exactly where we need to be in terms of awareness and understanding. I bid you good journey.

[3DMonkey]

Welcome to bring4th, Shin'ar

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This thread is just how we say I love you. Lol.

Ever see SNL skit where entire family French kisses to say hello?

[Shin'Ar]

What the second quote says is that there is value in learning the opposite of what is good, so that we can better understand that which is good by comparison. it does not suggest that there is good in its opposite.

The two are opposite because they are not the same.

I thank you for your service in reminding me of the folly of attempting to discuss this topic of the illusory nature of the STO/STS dualistic paradigm. It has strengthened my resolve to trust in my inner wisdom and knowing, and to bolster my faith that each of us is exactly where we need to be in terms of awareness and understanding. I bid you good journey.

Never hurts to chat!

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Welcome to bring4th, Shin'ar

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This thread is just how we say I love you. Lol.

Ever see SNL skit where entire family French kisses to say hello?

Keep your tongue away from me primate!

[Unbound]

I have an issue with this whole argument, that being that "STS" and "STO", have never actually been independently defined. "Service" is a word that can come across in multiple ways, and is laden with connotation.

I will also note the blatant confusion considering the fact that Ra teaches that "All is One Self", and all other (sub)Logoi are "Other-Selves", yet chose to define the concepts of polarity as "Service to Self" and "Service to Others". However, "Service to Others", to me, seems to be more instigating of separation, as its "vibrational sound complex" often conjures a reference of "other than Self", simply due to the nature of the word "Other". Of course, with the explanation that we are all Other-Selves of eachother, does that mean Service to Self means serving only the desires of the consciousness of your physical body? Or is it a manner of thinking with intention, are you seeking to fulfill your own desires (which arguably must be part of the total Self), or are all your intentions on others, and giving to them, and "guiding" them (whatever that really means)?

They also implicitly state over and over that "All serve the Creator in their own way." They also state that there is a point of Non-Polarity, which is of Light, which is another point of confusion for many people because there's "Light/Love", "Love/Light", Limitless Light, Visible Light, Astral Light, etc, etc the word Light is thrown around like candy nowadays. In the same way, the word darkness, or evil, is thrown at anything that someone finds threatening or fearful, or in the excuse of the STO harmful to others.

So, where is the line, WHO exactly has the authority to define WHAT is in the "greatest Service to All"? If anyone here would so claim they have the answer I would instantly spot out as someone who is in Service to Themselves, afterall, must not all of our realities be honoured? Where is the line drawn?

Have we not yet learned that words are illusory?

[Shin'Ar]

I think that these terms and defintions have been twisted and turned inside out in so many ways that their true meanings are lost in the confusion.

I also think that everyone, in the depths of their hearts, knows the true defitnions if they would just stop trying to make them meet with their own orientations.

Why can't we all do exactly as Zaxon has done so successfully? he has no confusion over what STS means. Or what STo means. One repulses him and the other is what he chooses.

We all know the difference just as he does. the problem is in wanting it to meet our own defintions.

[Unbound]

Perhaps, but what if someone naturally does not have a distinct repulsion to one or attraction to the other? Are you suggesting that duality exists only as a function of antagonistic opposites and there is no hope for reconciliation, opposites cannot be harmonious? It seems to me that duality can be taken in a similar or dissimilar manner. Everything has both similarities and dissimilarities with everything else, it's rare to find any black and white distinction in reality. That makes no sense to me in the face of Unpolarized Light...

If, as you say, everyone knows in the depths of their hearts the "true" definitions, then I suppose it is by your decree that these true definitions be expressed and sustained?

To be honest, I am still somewhat mystified about these "true" definitions, so could you perhaps enlighten me?

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I raise the issue because I am aware that many are confused, and some who have STO in their hearts spend every moment questioning themselves if they're being STS or not.

[Shin'Ar]

I agree with you that there are grey areas of shadow, as you well know. the shadow is your specialty.

And of course we all have the choice to bounce back and forth. This is the learning experience and the act of balancing which I speak to so often.

what I point here Azrael is that with regard to the difference between STS and STO, there should be no doubt that STS actually IS service to self. And that it is not, according to my understanding of the Ra material, condoned by Ra.

there should be no mistake that what zaxon has spoken of in the Greetings From the Dark thread in the wanderer forum, is true STS. he knows it and most others who are so oriented also know it. the problem arises when some try to make it something else, or something in between.

[Unbound]

And I believe you are correct on that fact, or at least, it is not in Ra's disposition as a member of the Confederation, and they have evolved along a highly STO-oriented path, although are now Unpolarized.

However, we can also take note, that being Unpolarized, Ra most likely still has portions of its complex which have done work in the Negative Polarity, and so we can assume that Ra has experience with the natures of both paths, and are instead exemplifying the power of Choice that is within the Third Density to choose whether or not they will orientate their Third Density teachings towards the path of Service to Others or Service to Self. The entire channeling, from my perception, is an exercise in that exact principle they are seeking to express.

Yes, no?

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As for your reference to Zaxon, I believe I see some confusion surrounding this situation.

I do not believe anyone was mistaking the obvious definition of Service to Self for Service to Others. I can understand how one might take that from some of the manners of expression by some of the people on this forum. Not intentional by any meanings, just a passing confusion.

I think rather that most people here instead try to express that even though others may be on the STS path, it's not WRONG, but there is a common conception that to respect free will is to not attempt to influence the path that another chooses to walk, instead opting that advice only be offered when it is asked for. Else one becomes akin to a preacher on the outside, not that this holds any truth, but it is a perception which influences choices of polarity and movement towards the Light.

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The idea, is, rather, complete faith that all will find their way to Oneness and the Creator.

[Shin'Ar]

And I believe you are correct on that fact, or at least, it is not in Ra's disposition as a member of the Confederation, and they have evolved along a highly STO-oriented path, although are now Unpolarized.

However, we can also take note, that being Unpolarized, Ra most likely still has portions of its complex which have done work in the Negative Polarity, and so we can assume that Ra has experience with the natures of both paths, and are instead exemplifying the power of Choice that is within the Third Density to choose whether or not they will orientate their Third Density teachings towards the path of Service to Others or Service to Self. The entire channeling, from my perception, is an exercise in that exact principle they are seeking to express.

Yes, no?

I am certain that we will find no one person that can say they have only ever been of one orientation. As a matter of fact one cannot know their other self if they have. and understanding that other self is the key to making the Divine Connection.

But, having acknowledged this, there is still direction. Just because we admit that there is Light and dark, and that we have all followed both paths at some time in our evoltuion, does not take away from the fact that there are still two paths, and two directions.

there is still forward and backward. There is still slow and quicker. there is still risky and surer footed. There is still choice which way to go to get to the Light.

If one goes backward into the darkness, that is onviously not the way to get to the Light.

if one chooses to walk toward the Light on a slower more risk filled path, they might get to the Light at some poinmt but it might be thousands of years later and a much more unloving path.

And then we have the fact that if one does manage to get to the Light, one cannot go through that gateway until they make the divine connection of becoming One with the all, of becoming One Consciousness, of becoming the Light. And this cannot be done by one who still believes that they are an individual and serves only themselves.

the ultimate truth is that we are One. And to become One, one must become aware that they are One. and one cannot do this if they choose to believe that they are not One, and instead believe that they are an individual in service to themselves. in servbice to an illusion that does not even exist.

To become the Light, one must know that they are the Light.

[Unbound]

Okay, I think you've expressed it the clearest here than you have before.

This is where there is another point of confusion within the Ra material, once again because of the rampant use of the word "Self" and "Selves". I understand this is probably difficult to make more obvious, but when one is in Service to Self, what exactly is the "Self" defined as at that point? As in, what do you feel the self-image of one such as this would be?

How can one tell if another is attached to their individuated Identity or not?

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A greater question, is it even important to "identify" others as one or the other?

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I also ask you in the light of your own stated Unpolarized state, do you have awareness of the path of Service to Self?

[Shin'Ar]

Okay, I think you've expressed it the clearest here than you have before.

This is where there is another point of confusion within the Ra material, once again because of the rampant use of the word "Self" and "Selves". I understand this is probably difficult to make more obvious, but when one is in Service to Self, what exactly is the "Self" defined as at that point? As in, what do you feel the self-image of one such as this would be?

How can one tell if another is attached to their individuated Identity or not?

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A greater question, is it even important to "identify" others as one or the other?

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I also ask you in the light of your own stated Unpolarized state, do you have awareness of the path of Service to Self?

I would ask for the indulgence of all interested in continuing on this line of thought regarding identity of self. I have written on this extensively but it would be a very long post and go mostly unread. But if you would be interested I could post portions of it here or email it you. And you are right in the import of this. It is as a matter of fact the key to making the Divine Connection is it not.

[Unbound]

I believe you have seen what I was thinking when I was asking these questions, and indeed this is truly the very core of choosing to see in Oneness.

I ask these questions for the same reasons all questions are asked, for more, and yet clearer expressions of the same wisdom that has always existed.

At this point, I think that rather more people need an example of Unpolarized expression, yes?

[Shin'Ar]

I could just briefly state that what we acknowledge as our identity or self is very similar to what we see when we look at an object.

What we actually see does not exist. What we actually see is the light reflected from it. Our brain is what causes the illusion. Our brain takes that reflecting light and creates an image in the back of our optical organs. Those of you more educated on this can be more laborate but I think most of you are aware of the basics.

Our brain does the same with respect to what we acknowledge as our self. in reality there is no such thing as self. It is nothing more than our physical brain trying to interpret the stimuli to which the environment subjects it to. Smell, taste, feel, etc. the enviromement causes our brains to react ina certain way, and this method of experiencing our world is what becomes our familairity. Our relationships with tohers a round us, and our individual physical reactions to stimuli create our identity.

but this identity is temporary and exists only with the brain. Once this body dies, the brain stops functioing and all that we thought we were, according to our brain, ceases to exist.

That self was an illusion developed from birth.

Our true identity was never the brain or the body. It was the field of consciousness behind it all. It was the Sacred Fire that dances within the being of every creation. It was our divine being.

[Unbound]

Although I'm not sure this is the proper forum of placement, I get the sense that many would be interested in seeing what you have written on this concept.

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http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/200...b-sydrome/

This also seems to be an expression of what you are instigating, yes?

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My next question on this subject would then be, from whence comes Identity, and do disincarnate Beings have Identity? Therein another confusion... is Self, Identity? What is the Personality? Is this Self or Identity?

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If anyone has answers to these questions they can think of from the Ra Material I would also very much welcome those.

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"You will recall that we went into some detail as to how those not oriented towards seeking service for others yet, nevertheless, found and could use the gateway to intelligent infinity. This is true at all densities in our octave. We cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or octave of beingness. This is, however, true of this octave of density. The beings are harvested because they can see and enjoy the light/love of the appropriate density. Those who have found this light/love, love/light without benefit of a desire for service to others nevertheless, by the Law of Free Will, have the right to the use of that light/love for whatever purpose. Also, it may be inserted that there are systems of study which enable the seeker of separation to gain these gateways.

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. The distortion lies in the effect that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve others is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One."

These sorts of expressions, I believe, are where we are starting to see the confusion between what you are expressing and what you are perceiving from others. These are the words of Ra.

[Shin'Ar]

I will start a new thread in OLIO called Perception of Consciousness and post my writing. if the moderators find it a breach or too long they can remove it.

[Unbound]

Olio is anything goes, no such thing as too long or a breach, good idea!

[Steppingfeet]

It seems that it is not popular to express one's interpretations of the Ra material with regard to STS here in this forum.

There are tons of discussions regarding what is STS, what is STO, how they relate, what they mean, what their implications are, whether they are accurate terms, so on and so forth. And there will be many great discussions to come.

If you discover that multiple forum members are not agreeing with your thoughts on STS, it is not the expression or your right to express and speak on the topic with which they disagree, it is the content of your thoughts. Same goes when you encounter agreement.

It is obvious that most here are STS oriented and so my thoughts become agitating to them.

Okay, I've got to ask:

1) What is your most concise definition of the term "service to self"?
2) Why do you feel that participants in this forum match that definition?

I think I will rpobably not be welcome here if I continue to offer my interpretataion of the Law of One and so I will avoid this particular forum and stick to the Olio Forum.

This thread needs rerouted to "Life on Planet Earth". Though it's a pain in the butt sometimes to delineate the difference between what does and does not belong in Strictly, as a general rule of thumb discussions in the "Strictly Law of One Material" sub-forum should make substantial use of and reference to the actual Law of One material.

Peace, GLB

[Shin'Ar]

Yes, I had a feeling that this was not being accepted in the other thread.

To answer your questions Gary,

From what I have read in the Ra material, STS would be acting for the sake of personal gratification or benefit, even if that means at the risk of others. This can be seen in the actions of the Orion. And has been also depicted in the examples that Ra used like Hitler for example.

However having said that, I do not believe that many of our brothers and sisters here have accurately understood this. Many of them seem to have adopted the thinking that Ra condones STS as a necessary means of learning about ones other self, and in so doing they have assumed STS to be okay.


As to your second question which is bascially what someone else has asked me, I am somewhat confused. as it is clear to me that these others are STS oirented and have made it clear that they do not have a problem with STS, I do not understand why you and some others are so unaware of it. Am I missing something?