What is everyone's gut feeling on 2012?

[Richard]

I've read a lot of material by numerous channels. Most of it doesn't "resonate" with me at all. I like that term....resonate... (picked it up in the LOO and Q'uo stuff). Its the perfect term for disseminating the information that makes up a person's learning path.

To date only 2 bodies of material "resonate" with me. Well, maybe 3?...if one separates the Ra / Q'uo material. I generally count those as one one source, though I suppose they technically are not. The only other channeled material that affects me similiarly is Kryon (channelled by Lee Carroll). To my knowledge, Kryon has never claimed Confederation affiliation...but that material is incredibly similar to the Q'uo. The main difference being the delivery.

Back to the topic of the Harvest though. So many people speak of the Harvest as one point or incidence. But, technically, isn't the Harvest an ongoing operation? A lot of people have passed on, will pass on or are passing on even as we speak. Are they not being harvested as we speak? In whatever stage of awakening they may be in at the time of passing between now and 12-21-2012.

It seems to me, sometimes, that The Harvest takes on a kind of epic proportion of instantaneous completion on 12-21-2012. Like the Armageddon / Apocalypse scenarios. But is that actually true? I've not read anything that seems to support a one or two day completion of process outside of youtube and mainstream media interpretations. Admittedly, I'm still reading LOO and Q'uo...but what is "time" to a multidimensional entity where everything is occurring simultaneously?

But...in all the infinite universe...or universes...maybe there is a satisfactory scenario that plays out for all of us? Perhaps by defining that endgame, we set the wheels in motion for that to occur? And, most of all...perhaps that is the reason for material like this to bring like minds together in these times?

Richard

[Monica]

...So many people speak of the Harvest as one point or incidence. But, technically, isn't the Harvest an ongoing operation? A lot of people have passed on, will pass on or are passing on even as we speak. Are they not being harvested as we speak? In whatever stage of awakening they may be in at the time of passing between now and 12-21-2012.

It seems to me, sometimes, that The Harvest takes on a kind of epic proportion of instantaneous completion on 12-21-2012. Like the Armageddon / Apocalypse scenarios. But is that actually true? I've not read anything that seems to support a one or two day completion of process outside of youtube and mainstream media interpretations. Admittedly, I'm still reading LOO and Q'uo...but what is "time" to a multidimensional entity where everything is occurring simultaneously?

Hi Richard!

I too have read info from many channeled sources (though I have never read anything by Kryon). And I too resonate with the LOO (I consider the Ra and Q'uo contacts the same source).

I originally posted the following on the 'Channeling' thread (in response to a question) in the 'Olio' forum. I'm reposting it as it really belongs here.

My understanding regarding the real significance of 2012 is that it is the absolute final date for Harvesting of souls. It's important to remember that it's a harvesting of SOULS, not bodies! And many of those souls have already been harvested, when they left 3D reality via natural 'death.'

Ra stated early on that the Harvest could have occurred sooner, if we had all been ready. Say, for example, if the entire population had been ready to be harvested in, say 1995. They could have harvested us then. But the population was not ready, so they have been delaying the Harvest until the last possible second, in order to maximize the chances for polarization, so that the Harvest would be increased (being that the Harvest was so small).

Evidently, the Harvest has increased since the LOO sessions...Q'uo seems to indicate that they are pleased now instead of worried at the, er, tiny Harvest. But, it's still relatively small, apparently, so they are still giving us as much time as possible. But they cannot go past Winter Solstice 2012, for astrological reasons, evidently. Ra said it was 'like the turning of the clock.' Gaia is being very patient, but there is a deadline by which She will no longer be able to support new 3D entities incarnating.

My interpretation is that, while there will indeed be a transitional period lasting perhaps decades or even centuries, 3D entities won't be able to choose polarity after 2012. So, while there will be many 3D entities still here on Earth after 2012, it will be only those who are harvestable, since the Harvest of souls will have already occurred for those discarnate...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it!

[Quantum]

....So many people speak of the Harvest as one point or incidence. But, technically, isn't the Harvest an ongoing operation? A lot of people have passed on, will pass on or are passing on even as we speak. Are they not being harvested as we speak? In whatever stage of awakening they may be in at the time of passing between now and 12-21-2012.

It seems to me, sometimes, that The Harvest takes on a kind of epic proportion of instantaneous completion on 12-21-2012. Like the Armageddon / Apocalypse scenarios. But is that actually true?

Richard
[/quote]

_________________________________________________________________

Hello Richard,

I believe I understand your question, and in large part would feel the best answer might lie between drawing the distinction between what might be considered the ""Harvest" of the individual body complex, i.e. you/me/him/her/us, which does indeed take place, as you state regularly, assuming one passes the grade and does in fact graduate into the next higher density, verses what is to shape up as "THE" culminating event of the "Earth" itself as an intelligent logos complex, and thus life on it as we know it, and therefore an altogether separate graduation from present 3rd density to coming fourth taking place sometime on or around 2012. In other words, its not so much our individual birthday, so to speak, as much as it is Hers. She is however quite accommodating and willing to invite those dressed for the occasion along for the ride as well. In other words, She extends her hand gracefully, in as much as it may be Our Birthday as well, if we would but have it. The irony of this lies in the fact that as a measurement of time its been happening as a function since the beginning, as much as I've been turning grey since the day I was born. So then, when did it start, and on what day do I in fact actually turn grey? Its a process, and in this context has been proceeding, as it were, all along, and happening even as we speak, as much as when we didn't (lol).

[Monica]

I believe I understand your question, and in large part would feel the best answer might lie between drawing the distinction between what might be considered the ""Harvest" of the individual body complex, i.e. you/me/him/her/us, which does indeed take place, as you state regularly, assuming one passes the grade and does in fact graduate into the next higher density, verses what is to shape up as "THE" culminating event of the "Earth" itself as an intelligent logos complex, and thus life on it as we know it, and therefore an altogether separate graduation from present 3rd density to coming fourth taking place sometime on or around 2012. In other words, its not so much our individual birthday, so to speak, as much as it is Hers. She is however quite accommodating and willing to invite those dressed for the occasion along for the ride as well. In other words, She extends her hand gracefully, in as much as it may be Our Birthday as well, if we would but have it. The irony of this lies in the fact that as a measurement of time its been happening as a function since the beginning, as much as I've been turning grey since the day I was born. So then, when did it start, and on what day do I in fact actually turn grey? Its a process, and in this context has been proceeding, as it were, all along, and happening even as we speak, as much as when we didn't (lol).

Beautifully said!

[freemason]

Hello the fire, does anyone think that we will more likely reach a collective polarity of harvestable grade to positive?

There's so much information on the Internet now about 2012. It surely is going to be the next big "doomsday" target for the Armageddon enthusiasts, but at the same time, I feel like there will be an uprising of people who feel motivated to discuss how the end of this "grand cycle" will bring on personal transformation and positive change.

What are you all feeling so far as this little competition of opinion begins to lurch upon us more and more with each passing day? Are you all laughing off the "doomsdayers"? Do you have concerns about "Niburu" making a close sweep past us? What are you planning to do to personally bring your own light into this situation?

I think we'd all love to hear where each other stands on this issue! How about you?

Steve

[Quantum]

[quote='freemason' pid='580' dateline='1231817175']
Hello the fire, does anyone think that we will more likely reach a collective polarity of harvestable grade to positive?


Hello Freemason,

I believe that the Ra Material in large part addressed the collective polarity harvest of the entire planet's inhabitants as potentially somewhat small (please correct me if wrong) and that the Quo Material (also part of the Ra collective complex), perhaps as a result of being more recent channeled information, yielded to the possibilities that perhaps a larger portion of the populations polarities may have evolved more over the course of some 30 years since the Ra Material was originally channeled, and thus has been of somewhat more of an optimistic bent. But nowhere in either has there, as I recall (please correct me), ever been a teaching or conveyance of knowledge that the planets inhabitants as a whole, as was the case of Venus, would transition as an entire population complex.

[Lavazza]

As to what will happen to me personally, I will continue ensuring that the first words my wife and children hear every morning when they awake and the last words they hear every night when they sleep is me saying "I love you". I will continue to live my life freely and openly and lovingly to my fellow humans and our planet until I pass away from this existance and have my opportunity to walk the stairs of light and then learn my next stop in this adventure of spiritual evolution.

I really like the way you put that.

[Lavazza]

It has got to be the latter... I just can't imagine that humanity on the whole would suddenly go through a universal problem of conceiving. It doesn't feel natural to think that. I resonate much more with the concept that the entities born continue to be born with dual activation, increasing moreso until the last of the 3D folks are gone, and thus there can be no more dual activation, the kids would simply be completely 4th.

Doesn't that seem to feel more right? I dunno...

It does feel right to me on many levels. We live in an elegant universe. A shift from 3rd to 4th density has no reason to be any less elegant. For my own purposes I can pretty much defeat any argument to the contrary with this line of thought. That's just how I see it

[Monica]

Here is another reference to the 2012 phenomena I might recommend for nothing else than the last 20 minutes entitled "The Esoteric Agenda"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...1249&hl=en

Although it may seem largely doom and gloom initially (the 2 hour version), it "may" nonetheless be somewhat educational in as much as it "may" tie current political/economic events to the 2012 appearance of these inconveniences, as much as any earth change we also speak to with what seems to be greater ease(?) Now, why that is might be fodder for a humorous conversation at a later time on another site for any academic mind as to why one might be considered a doomsayer vs a conspirialitorist vs simply a head in the sand metaphizzler for refusing to consider that changes must manifest as changes vs refusing to not consider these differences at all. We may speak to it as long as we do not s-p-e-a-k- to it. But therein lies the problem. The minute we do speak to it is the same minute we become swept away with it and digress. A-h-h- we are a complicated lot. But I digress. Back to the video: I was not aware for example of the fact that we "may" only be utilizing some 20 of our current 64 possible codes in our DNA structure, made up amino acids in our chromosomes, and that they may be activated at some later time, ie. 2012, as a result of the earth which historically only vibrated at some 7 hertz, to then 9 hertz in 1986-87 (sound familiar to the Ra Material?) and is expected to jump to 12 hertz by 2012. Fascinating if all true.

I'm about halfway thru the short segment right now... and so far it's very interesting...nothing negative at all! In fact, I like how he says that the controlling elite are nothing to be feared, and we must love ALL. I can tell already I'm going to have to watch it a 2nd time to catch all the details. Who produced this video? The Zeitgeist people? (Not sure who they are anyway.) Sort of sounds similar in tone.

(the music is a bit annoying though.)

Anyway, good stuff so far...this segment anyway...thanks for sharing!

Edit: OK I watched the rest of that segment, and it seemed to have some good info. But then I watched parts 1 & 2 and blehhhhh very fear-based, and some of it hokey. I see what you mean. I wish I'd taken your word for it and watched only the segment you posted.

[3D Sunset]

[quote='freemason' pid='580' dateline='1231817175']
Hello the fire, does anyone think that we will more likely reach a collective polarity of harvestable grade to positive?


Hello Freemason,

I believe that the Ra Material in large part addressed the collective polarity harvest of the entire planet's inhabitants as potentially somewhat small (please correct me if wrong) and that the Quo Material (also part of the Ra collective complex), perhaps as a result of being more recent channeled information, yielded to the possibilities that perhaps a larger portion of the populations polarities may have evolved more over the course of some 30 years since the Ra Material was originally channeled, and thus has been of somewhat more of an optimistic bent. But nowhere in either has there, as I recall (please correct me), ever been a teaching or conveyance of knowledge that the planets inhabitants as a whole, as was the case of Venus, would transition as an entire population complex.

Hi Quantum,

This is an interesting question. First remember that even Venus did not have the planet's inhabitants as a whole transition to 4D. Indeed, they actually had two positive wanderers inadvertently polarized STS and graduate to 4D Negative while trying to help the unpolarized Venusian population. Imagine how that must have felt! Per below, Ra's Social Memory Complex that graduated together were not the entire population of Venus at the time. Indeed, only 17% of the population graduated with Ra.

Ra Book IV, Session 89
Questioner: What was Ra’s average total population incarnate on Venus in third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We were a small population which dwelt upon what you would consider difficult conditions. Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere.

I believe that it is a given that ours will be a mixed Harvest in that there are certainly those no longer incarnate that were harvestable STS when they died, and they will be (have already been?) included in the Harvest. Now, a separate question is whether or not we could have a significantly increased positive Harvest . This gets me to my favorite quote from LOO:

Ra Book III, Session 65
We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

Love and light,
3D Sunset

[Quantum]

[quote='Quantum' pid='581' dateline='1231820420']
[quote='freemason' pid='580' dateline='1231817175']
Hello the fire, does anyone think that we will more likely reach a collective polarity of harvestable grade to positive?


Hello Freemason,

I believe that the Ra Material in large part addressed the collective polarity harvest of the entire planet's inhabitants as potentially somewhat small .... But nowhere in either has there, as I recall (please correct me), ever been a teaching or conveyance of knowledge that the planets inhabitants as a whole, as was the case of Venus, would transition as an entire population complex.

Hi Quantum,

This is an interesting question. First remember that even Venus did not have the planet's inhabitants as a whole transition to 4D. Indeed, they actually had two positive wanderers inadvertently polarized STS and graduate to 4D Negative while trying to help the unpolarized Venusian population. Imagine how that must have felt! Per below, Ra's Social Memory Complex that graduated together were not the entire population of Venus at the time. Indeed, only 17% of the population graduated with Ra.

Ra Book IV, Session 89
Questioner: What was Ra’s average total population incarnate on Venus in third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We were a small population which dwelt upon what you would consider difficult conditions. Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere.

Hello 3D,

Thank you for the research. To Freemason's question then, it seems we are in agreement, at least in as far as the Materials (Ra/Quo), that Earth will undoubtedly (in all probability) not graduate as a whole. Actually and in fact, on further thought, it would seem that 3D, and 3D Venus included as to your point, as much as 3D Earth, both being by definition one of dichotomy then and now, would necessarily almost always be of a mixed harvest as a result, in as much as a 3D dichotomy of opposites are almost a prerequisite and hallmark of 3D (containing STS and STO) of and within it's sphere. Thus by definition, 3D contains mixed polarity, STS and STO, and thus subsequently by definition may mean almost in every case (possibilities notwithstanding), whether in this Galaxy or (all) others, that a mixed harvest would be the natural result?

To continue the point, it seems then, perhaps sadly, that if Venus only graduated 17% positive, and presumably were in advancement of Earth (next great question/assumption, but sadly lacking in any solid validation) then the Earth's harvest potential in as far as numbers (whose counting anyway) may be less than this low number of 17%?

Thank you again for the insight 3D, which stimulates, as ever, yet more questions, to garner yet more insight..........

Be well,

Q

[3D Sunset]

Actually and in fact, on further thought, it would seem that 3D, and 3D Venus included as to your point, as much as 3D Earth, both being by definition one of dichotomy then and now, would necessarily almost always be of a mixed harvest as a result, in as much as a 3D dichotomy of opposites are almost a prerequisite and hallmark of 3D (containing STS and STO) of and within it's sphere. Thus by definition, 3D contains mixed polarity, STS and STO, and thus subsequently by definition may mean almost in every case (possibilities notwithstanding), whether in this Galaxy or (all) others, that a mixed harvest would be the natural result?

To continue the point, it seems then, perhaps sadly, that if Venus only graduated 17% positive, and presumably were in advancement of Earth (next great question/assumption, but sadly lacking in any solid validation) then the Earth's harvest potential in as far as numbers (whose counting anyway) may be less than this low number of 17%?

A couple of good questions, one of which is addressed directly by Ra:

Ra Book III, Session 65

Questioner: How common in the universe is a mixed harvest from a planet of both positively and negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes?

Ra: I am Ra. Among planetary harvests which yield an harvest of mind/body/spirit complexes approximately 10% are negative; approximately 60% are positive; and approximately 30% are mixed with nearly all harvest being positive. In the event of mixed harvest it is almost unknown for the majority of the harvest to be negative. When a planet moves strongly towards the negative there is almost no opportunity for harvestable positive polarization.

On the other topic, Ra refused to speculate, but that doesn't keep us from it, of course. Recall that after the second minor cycle a whopping 150 souls graduated. At that time there were around 345,000 people incarnate. Using a similar percentage (.0435%), this would give us around 2.8 million graduates in this Harvest (excluding Wanderers). A valid estimate? Who knows, but it does establish a yardstick and hopefully a lower bound.

Food for thought,

3D sunset

[Bring4th_Steve]

I have no idea how this fits within the LOO view. But I've not read anything, to me anyway, in the words of Q'uo that actually denies that possibility. If indeed we are capable of creating our world, why could we not each envision any possible future.

Richard, this is a good point. If I were to guess, I would say that this does fit rather squarely into the LOO view. I happen to read Joshiah's works, whom the confederation has acknowledged and sort of "tipped their hat" to. Because of that, and becuase I feel positive when ready Joshiah, I tend to put some stock in that entity.

Now if you take some time to read Joshiah's words, it won't take you long to realize that 90% of what Joshiah talks about is creating your own reality. And surprisingly, Joshiah gives a lot more feedback on manifesting and the creation process than I've seen with Q'uo, Latwii or other Confederation sources.

So when you mention that there is the possibility that you will create your own event for 2011/2012, I believe not only is that true for the transition, but for every waking moment of your life! The reason we don't follow this act more is because we are too busy placing blame on outside results, instead of looking on the inside and wondering why we just manifested a particular experience.

Steve

[Quantum]

Actually and in fact, on further thought, it would seem that 3D, and 3D Venus included as to your point, as much as 3D Earth, both being by definition one of dichotomy then and now, would necessarily almost always be of a mixed harvest as a result, in as much as a 3D dichotomy of opposites are almost a prerequisite and hallmark of 3D (containing STS and STO) of and within it's sphere. Thus by definition, 3D contains mixed polarity, STS and STO, and thus subsequently by definition may mean almost in every case (possibilities notwithstanding), whether in this Galaxy or (all) others, that a mixed harvest would be the natural result?

To continue the point, it seems then, perhaps sadly, that if Venus only graduated 17% positive, and presumably were in advancement of Earth (next great question/assumption, but sadly lacking in any solid validation) then the Earth's harvest potential in as far as numbers (whose counting anyway) may be less than this low number of 17%?

A couple of good questions, one of which is addressed directly by Ra:

Ra Book III, Session 65

Questioner: How common in the universe is a mixed harvest from a planet of both positively and negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes?

Ra: I am Ra. Among planetary harvests which yield an harvest of 10% are negative; approximately 60% are positive; and approximately 30% are mixed with nearly all harvest being positive. In the event of mixed harvest it is almost unknown for the majority of the harvest to be negative. When a planet moves strongly towards the negative there is almost no opportunity for harvestable positive polarization.

On the other topic, Ra refused to speculate, but that doesn't keep us from it, of course. Recall that after the second minor cycle a whopping 150 souls graduated. At that time there were around 345,000 people incarnate. Using a similar percentage (.0435%), this would give us around 2.8 million graduates in this Harvest (excluding Wanderers). A valid estimate? Who knows, but it does establish a yardstick and hopefully a lower bound.

Food for thought,

3D sunset

More food for Setting Suns in 3D , and all those participating:
Thank you again for the continuing dialog. It may seem pedantic to pursue numbers, but perhaps it may establish a furthering insight. I applaud you at finding these facts quickly and quick to respond. Yielding to the fact that only 17% of Venus graduated to a positively oriented harvest, and one whose total population was only roughly 32 million, comparatively against 6 Billion on Earth, and using 60% as an average for positive:
1. Did Venus fall far below the average at 17% vs the standard 60%?
2. Or is this to suggest that of the the mind/body/spirit complexes which "were harvestable" (of an unknown number), that 60% of "that number" represented the positive (in the Venus case at 17% of the total population), whereas 10% represented negative, and 30% mixed was largely positive?
2. 60% + 10% + 30% = 100% haverstable.
3. Given 17% may represent 60%, presumably the total percentage of negative population was far far less of the 10%. Most then were recycled and dispatched back to 3D elsewhere in the Venus case?
4.Of the 6 Billion on Earth, of which "an unknown number" on average "will be harvestable", 60% of this number will be positive, 10% negative, and again 30% mixed which will be largely positive.

This then leads me to more questions as a result of either clear logic or muddled understanding:
1. In the Venus case, the entire population went one way or the other (i.e. positive, negative, or re-cycled and summarily dispatched back to another 3D locale in a Galaxy Far Far Away as a result of not making the grade either positive or negative as a result of the planet presumably going positive(?)
1. Did it in (Venus) in fact go Positive vs Negative?
2. Is it now 4D Positive?
3. Are 4D mind/body/spirit complexes in fact presently inhabiting Venus?
4. This Grand Cycle of 75,000 years representing 3 cycles round the Central Sun, of which one revolution is 25,000 years, is one in which an entire planet, ours in this case, at the end of 75, 000 years is in like kind going one way or the other, in this case positive as given by Ra. Thus as the Marines are wont to say "No One Gets Left Behind". This then may not lend itself to the math in the closing statement comparing only 150 souls previously in the last 25,000 cycle as a result of this final cycle being a closing cycle of the 3 time loop equating to the aforementioned 75,000 year cycle wherein the planet goes, as do all of its inhabitants, as 100% one way or the other, or dispatched to another 3D'er paradise elsewhere. I am making the distinction between an ordinary 25,000 year cycle of once round the center of our universe (galaxy),wherein the mind/body/spirit complexes may harvest (or not), vs the 3 time loop of 75,000 years round the center of our universe (galaxy), wherein the planet itself harvests as a function of an allotted time, as in the clock striking twelve.

Is this relevant? Any thoughts / responses?

[Lavazza]

Recall that after the second minor cycle a whopping 150 souls graduated. At that time there were around 345,000 people incarnate. Using a similar percentage (.0435%), this would give us around 2.8 million graduates in this Harvest (excluding Wanderers). A valid estimate? Who knows, but it does establish a yardstick and hopefully a lower bound.

Hmm, interesting but I think I disagree with the idea of these percentages being constant across multiple harvests. In the first harvest there was a 0% graduated. The next time, .0435% graduated, which in itself indicates that the graduation rate is not tied to a percentage so much as it is to the state of the entire world's mind / attitudes / actions at that time of harvest. This is probably why Ra stated that on mostly negatively polarized planets it is almost impossible to graduate in a positive sense. And at any rate, 2.8 million seems like a low number of people who are >51% in service to others at this time.

I do wonder though how many people are graduating positive. Even if we got to 10%, that's still a LOT of entities.

[3D Sunset]

More food for Setting Suns in 3D , and all those participating:
Thank you again for the continuing dialog. It may seem pedantic to pursue numbers, but perhaps it may establish a furthering insight. I applaud you at finding these facts quickly and quick to respond. Yielding to the fact that only 17% of Venus graduated to a positively oriented harvest, and one whose total population was only roughly 32 million, comparatively against 6 Billion on Earth, and using 60% as an average for positive:
1. Did Venus fall far below the average at 17% vs the standard 60%?
2. Or is this to suggest that of the the mind/body/spirit complexes which "were harvestable" (of an unknown number), that 60% of "that number" represented the positive (in the Venus case at 17% of the total population), whereas 10% represented negative, and 30% mixed was largely positive?
2. 60% + 10% + 30% = 100% haverstable.
3. Given 17% may represent 60%, presumably the total percentage of negative population was far far less of the 10%. Most then were recycled and dispatched back to 3D elsewhere in the Venus case?
4.Of the 6 Billion on Earth, of which "an unknown number" on average "will be harvestable", 60% of this number will be positive, 10% negative, and again 30% mixed which will be largely positive.

This then leads me to more questions as a result of either clear logic or muddled understanding:
1. In the Venus case, the entire population went one way or the other (i.e. positive, negative, or re-cycled and summarily dispatched back to another 3D locale in a Galaxy Far Far Away as a result of not making the grade either positive or negative as a result of the planet presumably going positive(?)
1. Did it in (Venus) in fact go Positive vs Negative?
2. Is it now 4D Positive?
3. Are 4D mind/body/spirit complexes in fact presently inhabiting Venus?
4. This Grand Cycle of 75,000 years representing 3 cycles round the Central Sun, of which one revolution is 25,000 years, is one in which an entire planet, ours in this case, at the end of 75, 000 years is in like kind going one way or the other, in this case positive as given by Ra. Thus as the Marines are wont to say "No One Gets Left Behind". This then may not lend itself to the math in the closing statement comparing only 150 souls previously in the last 25,000 cycle as a result of this final cycle being a closing cycle of the 3 time loop equating to the aforementioned 75,000 year cycle wherein the planet goes, as do all of its inhabitants, as 100% one way or the other, or dispatched to another 3D'er paradise elsewhere. I am making the distinction between an ordinary 25,000 year cycle of once round the center of our universe (galaxy),wherein the mind/body/spirit complexes may harvest (or not), vs the 3 time loop of 75,000 years round the center of our universe (galaxy), wherein the planet itself harvests as a function of an allotted time, as in the clock striking twelve.

Is this relevant? Any thoughts / responses?

A lot of questions and a little, I fear, muddled thinking. The 60% number represents the percentage of all 3D planets that have a strictly positive harvest. This means that in those harvests, only positive enties are harvested. Interestingly, even Earth fell into that camp during the second minor cycle. Similarly, the 10% number represents the number of strictly negative harvests. The remaining 30% of all harvests are mixed, as is the case with our lovely blue orb.

Separately, it is true that all souls will be harvested and then triaged according to their progression (i.e., 4D Positive to remain on Earth, 4D Negative to go to some newly minted 4D Negative planet elsewhere, and the remainder - the vast majority by all accounts - to go to another 3D planet and try again to polarize and advance). You make a good point as to the ambiguity of our use of the terms "harvest", in that just as when wheat is harvested, all plants are reaped, and a separate process separates the wheat from the chaff as it were. I have not seen anything, however that indicates that the third cycle is more prolific in producing souls that are ready to advance, except for the added evolutionary time and extra attention that major cycle harvests get in the form of wanderers and other positive and negative attention from higher realms.

As to the question of what is Venus now, Ra indicates the following.

Ra Book IV Session 89
Questioner: It appears that the end of Ra’s third density coincided with the beginning of this planet’s second density. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is roughly correct.

Questioner: Did the planet Venus become a fourth-density planet at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Questioner: Did it later, then, become a fifth-density planet?

Ra: I am Ra. It later became a fourth/fifth-density planet; then, later a fifthdensity planet for a large measure of your time. Both fourth and fifthdensity experiences were possible upon the planetary influence of what you call Venus.

Questioner: What is its density at present?

Ra: I am Ra. Its core vibrational frequency is sixth density. However we, as a social memory complex have elected to leave that influence. Therefore, the beings inhabiting this planetary influence at this space/time are fifth-density entities. The planet may be considered a fifth/sixth-density planet.

As I said earlier, my 2.8M positive souls to be harvested is, I hope, a grossly low number. I simply included it to give people a feel of the size of this harvest if the same relative percentage were maintained as in the second minor cycle. Similarly, I feel that the 17% positive graduation of Ra's time would represent an upper limit to the size of this harvest, that number representing just over 1 billion souls.

Hope that helps,

3D Sunset

[freemason]

If we consider that Ra notes how a person to be of harvestable quality STO would be recognized by those surrounding them as someone extraordinary. For this reason I consider that the old all are worthy/none are worthy is in evidence. I hope there is a curve, for a 51% grade is as difficult as a 95% grade STS. I have been therefore hopeful that due to the law of Squares, a collective harvest would be easier to attain as we lean into the work together these last years

[Monica]

This is an interesting question. First remember that even Venus did not have the planet's inhabitants as a whole transition to 4D. Indeed, they actually had two positive wanderers inadvertently polarized STS and graduate to 4D Negative while trying to help the unpolarized Venusian population. Imagine how that must have felt!

I remember that example well, of good intentions that got corrupted. I remember Ra said "They were disconcerted."

Those words have served as a reminder to me all these years...I don't want to be...disconcerted!!! Yikes!

Ra Book III, Session 65
We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

That is one of my fav quotes too! I looooooove it! I agree that it seems pretty obvious it'll be a 3-way split...but I want to always remain open to miracles!

---

To continue the point, it seems then, perhaps sadly, that if Venus only graduated 17% positive, and presumably were in advancement of Earth (next great question/assumption, but sadly lacking in any solid validation) then the Earth's harvest potential in as far as numbers (whose counting anyway) may be less than this low number of 17%?

Q, I was thinking that very thing. The Harvest must have very small indeed 30 years ago...but according to Q'uo we are doing much better now. Still, it does seem to be a very small percentage, doesn't it...

I wonder what the negative percentage is.

---

On the other topic, Ra refused to speculate, but that doesn't keep us from it, of course. Recall that after the second minor cycle a whopping 150 souls graduated. At that time there were around 345,000 people incarnate. Using a similar percentage (.0435%), this would give us around 2.8 million graduates in this Harvest (excluding Wanderers). A valid estimate? Who knows, but it does establish a yardstick and hopefully a lower bound.

(Speculating here) Maybe that's what Ra meant by 'small' 30 years ago...and maybe now it's more like 5 or 10 percent...? Still a lot lower then the Venus Harvest, but considerable improvement over the last 10 years...and Q'uo has indicated that we've had considerable improvement.

---

...I happen to read Joshiah's works, whom the confederation has acknowledged and sort of "tipped their hat" to. Because of that, and becuase I feel positive when ready Joshiah, I tend to put some stock in that entity.

Now if you take some time to read Joshiah's words, it won't take you long to realize that 90% of what Joshiah talks about is creating your own reality. And surprisingly, Joshiah gives a lot more feedback on manifesting and the creation process than I've seen with Q'uo, Latwii or other Confederation sources.

So when you mention that there is the possibility that you will create your own event for 2011/2012, I believe not only is that true for the transition, but for every waking moment of your life! The reason we don't follow this act more is because we are too busy placing blame on outside results, instead of looking on the inside and wondering why we just manifested a particular experience.

Steve

Powerful stuff, Steve! I agree totally!

We are holographic beings...and Q'uo had acknowledged countless times that the best way to heal the outer reality is to heal the part of ourselves that is being mirrored.

So, it behooves us to hold high that vision of that "one, strong, fine moment of inspiration."

Whether it is sufficient to result in a group Harvest or not, is irrelevant...at the very least, it may result in a larger Harvest than would have occurred, had we NOT held high that vision!

Ask any empowerment guru - they will tell you that if you set your goals high but don't reach them, you will likely go further than if you had set your goals low. Reaching the goal is secondary to reaching as high as you possibly can.

Our task is to do what we can to increase the Harvest...by envisioning a large or complete Harvest, we may do more to increase the Harvest than if we are willing to settle for partial results.

[3D Sunset]

If we consider that Ra notes how a person to be of harvestable quality STO would be recognized by those surrounding them as someone extraordinary. For this reason I consider that the old all are worthy/none are worthy is in evidence. I hope there is a curve, for a 51% grade is as difficult as a 95% grade STS. I have been therefore hopeful that due to the law of Squares, a collective harvest would be easier to attain as we lean into the work together these last years

Hi Freemason,

I agree with your comment, and it reminded me of the quote that I made the title of this post, which I modified from its original by adding a little capitalization: "Many hands make Light Work" (in the spirit of this website and its affinity for double entendres, I think it fits).

I don't think there will be any grading on the curve however. Everyone that graduates must make the grade individually. When surrounded by a large number of Light Workers, however, it is much easier to become one yourself. Yes, STO is both contagious and addictive. Bringing this back to the idea of a harmonious harvest, I think that it is quite possible, and we could see it continue to grow and expand as time marches forward.

That, at any rate, is both my hope and my dream. But on another level, even though we should dream big, I think we need to recall that even if our work only reaches a single entity, then it was a total success. For all are one, and to have reached one, is to reach all.

3D Sunset

[3D Sunset]

DreamingPeace wrote:
(Speculating here) Maybe that's what Ra meant by 'small' 30 years ago...and maybe now it's more like 5 or 10 percent...? Still a lot lower then the Venus Harvest, but considerable improvement over the last 10 years...and Q'uo has indicated that we've had considerable improvement.

Let's suppose for a moment that everyone calling Confederation Sources in 1981 were now harvestable or already harvested (if they have already left incarnation). This would give us at least 632 Million souls minus the number of wanderers (then 67M) or about 560M souls harvested positively inito 4D on Earth. This approaches the 10% number of which you speak, so clearly that is not an unreasonable possibility.

Given that though, it is amazing to contemplate just what a 4D social memory complex (SMC), formed of almost 600M entities would be like. Notice especially the quotes pertaining to harmony and individual differences expressed by Ra below.

Ra Book I, Session 16
Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a short description of the conditions in the fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thought of other-selves; it is a plane wherein one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

One wonders if it is easier to form such a harmonious SMC of 6.5M as did Ra, rather than possibly 600M from Earth. Is there perhaps an optimal size for SMCs? Could such a great number of souls possibly form multiple SMCs in early 4D and then integrate them later? These are rhetorical questions, of course, as there is no way to answer them from within our current 3D matrix. But it is one more source of wonder and mystery.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[freemason]

Sunset, I sometimes think of mankinds population and collective evolution in terms of a golden section spiral, the longer the spiral continues outward, the more exponential growth it has. Like a nautilus shell. I think, either we will meet with the self limitation of that expansion or as a planet we will be able to unify and make the next turn, at the least in our hearts i hope.

[Richard]

I've gone back and started reading the LOO from the beginning. I'm pretty sure that LOO Book 1 says that humanity doesn't have to be aware of The Law of One to be harvestable. Only that they have to be living positively 51% of the time within the framework of whatever religion or path they are following.

And that those that don't harvest due to not being ready will go through 3rd density again elsewhere. But this is confusing to me...because I know I read in one place that non harvestable entities would reincarnate offworld and I read today (LOO Book 1) that they might reincarnate in one of the many available sub 3rd densities.

Can anyone more well versed in this material clarify that for me?

Thanks,

Richard

[Monica]

I've gone back and started reading the LOO from the beginning. I'm pretty sure that LOO Book 1 says that humanity doesn't have to be aware of The Law of One to be harvestable. Only that they have to be living positively 51% of the time within the framework of whatever religion or path they are following.

Yes, you're right on, Richard. The vast majority of harvestable entities have no clue about the LOO. Just think of all the people in mainstream religions, or no religion at all, but who have opened their hearts...This is one of the key points that totally blew my mind when I first read the books...it made such perfect sense...that the criteria for harvest would be based on something tangible and substantial...rather than arbitrary beliefs.

And that those that don't harvest due to not being ready will go through 3rd density again elsewhere. But this is confusing to me...because I know I read in one place that non harvestable entities would reincarnate offworld and I read today (LOO Book 1) that they might reincarnate in one of the many available sub 3rd densities.

Can anyone more well versed in this material clarify that for me?

I'm not sure what the confusion is...

non harvestable entities would reincarnate offworld

and

they might reincarnate in one of the many available sub 3rd densities.

...seem to be saying the same thing to me...'offworld' meaning not on Earth. I'm not sure what a 'sub' density is in contrast to a density, but, at any rate, they won't be here.

[3D Sunset]

Sunset, I sometimes think of mankinds population and collective evolution in terms of a golden section spiral, the longer the spiral continues outward, the more exponential growth it has. Like a nautilus shell. I think, either we will meet with the self limitation of that expansion or as a planet we will be able to unify and make the next turn, at the least in our hearts i hope.

A wonderful and worthwhile analogy, thank you Freemason.

3D Sunset

[DanielDillon]

My friends, let me attempt to show you an alternative perspective.

To do this, see your self not as all you have known yourself to be since you were born.

Now what is left? We are now an entity, an individualized portion of consciousness of the One Creator. OK, we also know we are multi-dimensional. Therefore, it is possible to consciously view other parts of our self.

We do this in our physical vehicles every day. When we expand our consciousness and are mindful, parts of our selves flash thoughts, and other parts make decisions etc. Imagine all our selves in all dimensions as such, abstracted from this physical reality.

Now, from this higher perspective as an entity, do we now consider the illusions of space/time and how those events work themselves out as of any importance? Do we fear our death? Of course not, for we exist on all levels at all times. And all things are one.

OK, from our expanded perspective, we want to program and experience the best possible catalyst of the physical illusion so we may learn the lessons of love.

This is where the importance stops.

I believe we are all missing the point completely.

All begins and all ends in mystery. There is an infinite amount of information in this 3D reality regarding 2012. The physical is an illusion, may scientific data be an illusion also, or even but a scratch on the surface as Ra suggests.

2012 is the point of mystery.

It is time to do what we came here to do. Transcend all prior knowledge, all history. For now is the end of time. All is mystery, let us regain the awe, and once again connect to that which is mystery of the One and Infinite Creator.

It is time to consciously realise, that the past will no longer become important. We shall forgive ourselves and all others. We shall reconnect with source. We are the source. You see, written history does not dissappear. This is a story of consciousness, and how consciousness will no longer be stuck in the past, or worried about the future. When consciousness is in the moment, there can be no linear time. This is the future level of understanding.

So many books, so much information, infinitely different viewpoints. All pointing to one certain thing.............Mystery!

We need not try, we only need to be. Be one in the moment.

Talking through my 'Higher Self'; 'I have no concern regarding the manifestation of physical death, as all probability/possibility vortices regarding this matter will all provide a means of learning for my 3rd dimensional mind/body/spirit complex.

Talking through my earth bound mind/body/spirit complex; 'A catastrophic death of all human kind in a sudden event is the worst fear I can perceive on this plane. I thank the Creator for this gift. I can perceive of no greater catalyst for transformation.'

Let us not get lost in transient physical details. Let us teach/learn together that which we came to do. The answers lie within, not externally. The path is inside us all. We are an instrument of the Creator, it is time to tune in.

Peace, Love and Light.

Daniel

[Monica]

Wow, Daniel, I got a rush of energy when I read that! Thanks for the reminder!

[ayadew]

Very inspiring DanielDillon, but some external sources can be a great catalyst for teaching/learning, such as your post!

PS. DreamingPeace, you do not have to quote the entire post, it "floods" the forum a bit, we all can understand what you comment on.

Peace and love

[DanielDillon]

I will dedicate the rest of my life here to balancing my self, so that I can be of better service to others. It is my only goal in life. I do this out of love for you all.

I agree external sources can be useful for growth and polarisation for an entity that has chosen service to others, and also for those polarised towards service to self.

The faculty of perception of each individual will discern the differences between information, and the will is used to choose the assimilation of such information into the mind. Here, we need to rely on our inner guide, our inner tuition (intuition for short).

When we ask 'what is our intuition', 'who is the inner tuition?', then we re-connect with the source and begin opening the heart. For the inner tuition is the voice of our true heart and our true self.

An external source that some view as 'fear based' should not be discredited as disinformation as fear is involved. The information is not the fear, it is the perception of the individual. The fear is the catalyst, and should highlight the things needed to be worked upon.

Love and Light

[fairyfarmgirl]

I will dedicate the rest of my life here to balancing my self, so that I can be of better service to others. It is my only goal in life. I do this out of love for you all.

Thank you, DanielDillon!

I continue to dedicate my life to self-actualization and in doing so I am merging into oneness while still being here. This allows for me to be of service to others. It is a process...LOL... and I am by no means an avatar... just moments of oneness building upon more moments.

Thank you.

fairyfarmgirl

[ayadew]

Yes, thank you. I am grateful to all of you.