In regards to eating meat

[BrownEye]

dude really? i wish i didn't have to eat. it's a constant struggle with my issues. does the blender help you digest vegetables and lettuce?

Oh yeah. It cuts down on the time needed for digestion. Not to mention I am too lazy for food preparation. If I don't like the taste of a vegetable I toss it in with the rest in the blender.

I get a sore neck just from the time it takes me to wash the kale.

---

Men eagerly displayed their rifles in pickup-truck rear-windows and judged other men by the size of their deer antlers.

This is the case where I live in Nebraska. We were on the freeway last weekend and ended up behind a guy with two bucks on his camper topper with blood running down the back of the truck. My kids were not happy to see that.

Then again, while driving through Eugene Oregon I pulled up behind a lifted truck with a gun rack and a female driver. What was in that gunrack was a 3-4ft long double ended dildo.

[native]

Then again, while driving through Eugene Oregon I pulled up behind a lifted truck with a gun rack and a female driver. What was in that gunrack was a 3-4ft long double ended dildo.

hahahahhah

[Diana]

I don't think eating meat is bad, we where meant to, without our history of eating meat our brain wouldn't have developed to the level it is at now.

I'm not sure of the veracity of this statement. Could you explain?

---

It's all about the intention. If your intention when eating meat is simply to refuel your body there is no hate involved.

Intention is certainly key. But what about being responsible in your choices? I would add to that, that being aware of what you're doing is equally important: being aware of where your food comes from and how it gets to you.

---

If being a veggie is a catalyst for you and it is your will at this time then by all means follow it, just don't preach it as a necessity for spiritual matters as that would be extremely hypocritical of the spiritual journey itself.

I don't think anyone here is preaching. We are trying to offer each other different viewpoints. I, for one, have gotten so many different views I wouldn't have thought of. And, Clordio posed the question, which opens the door to discussion.

---

Nothing tastier then a juicy steak melting in your mouth.

What would you think of your tasty steak if you had to be aware of how it came to you while eating it? Even a humanely raised cow will be terrified to be killed.

Anyone read The Restaurant at the End of the Universe?

[Monica]

I think that TN meant why having discussions in this forum if one finds the material offered by L/L Research unreliable? This indicates that he does find it reliable.

Can you explain what you mean by "reliable"?

Ah, but sometimes people have discussions in order to convince other selves about the "wrongness" in other's thoughs, and "rightness" in their own. No? =)

I don't see anyone doing that here.

I would like to add to what TN wrote, and that is to use the material in order to convince other people of wrongness in other's thoughts/opinions and rightness in their own, by quoting Ra/Q'uo. I am not talking about the facts, but interpretations/understandings/opinions. And I am not talking about attempts of understanding where an assistence is asked, but of a clear, already made up, and firm opinion/s, which in some cases are underlined with quote/s that are digged out from archives in order to establish the "rightness" in their own thought/s.

I agree that we should all be open to new understandings.

But having convictions about certain principles, isn't the same thing as being closed-minded. One can "have their mind made up" about certain principles, yet still be open to new understandings which don't change the core convictions, but can help broaden one's perspective and add texture to those convictions.

Regarding using the material to back up one's points, it works both ways.

If the material isn't to be used to back up one's views, then what is the point of having a discussion based on study of the material?

On the other hand, I don't think it's fair or accurate to assume someone doesn't consider the material 'reliable' just because they question it, or interpret it differently.

If the material is considered 'reliable' and to be used as a doctrine, then it's expected that it will be quoted to back up one's views. But even then, it will be interpreted differently.

I personally don't consider the material to be an infallible authority. I do however see it as a guideline, and in fact is the foundation of my entire spirituality. That's me. Not everyone here feels the same way about the material. And some (like me) don't grant the same degree of reliability to the Q'uo channelings as we do to the Ra material.

That doesn't mean we don't consider it reliable. It means we understand that no material, not even Ra, is 100% free of distortion. The amount of distortion may vary.

[Ankh]

I think that TN meant why having discussions in this forum if one finds the material offered by L/L Research unreliable? This indicates that he does find it reliable.

Can you explain what you mean by "reliable"?

I was offering an attempt of explaining of what TN might have meant in regards to another post.

If the material isn't to be used to back up one's views, then what is the point of having a discussion based on study of the material?

What I said is that I wished to add to what TN wrote in his post, and that is the material to be used when convincing people of their "wrongness" and it's own "rightness" when discussing opinions/understandings/interpretations.

[BrownEye]

What I said is that I wished to add to what TN wrote in his post, and that is the material to be used when convincing people of their "wrongness" and it's own "rightness" when discussing opinions/understandings/interpretations.

You are totally wrong about him being right about the wrongness of being right about wrong opinions.

---

Ok I admit I am just trolling and don't know wth I just said.

[Monica]

Dog rescues kittens

[BrownEye]

As I walk in to work, on the news, "US lifts ban on eating horses".

I didn't know it was banned. My relatives eat horses. Dogs too. One of the lineage traits to influence catalyst and cause possible choices for me. Talk about not feeling like I belong to the family.

[Oceania]

gosh.

[Monica]

As I walk in to work, on the news, "US lifts ban on eating horses".

I didn't know it was banned.

I didn't either. I wonder why they would ban eating horses. Maybe that was an antiquated law from the horse and buggy days? Still, even then, why couldn't people eat their own horses if they were lame and couldn't perform their work?

Is there a ban on eating dogs and cats in the US?

It all seems to so arbitrary.

[Tenet Nosce]

Either you have not read my posts, or you grossly misunderstand them.

I have posited many logical reasons for not killing animals for food. And I haven't even said anything about the health problems associated.

My apologies for mischaracterizing your view.

I read the Ra material and found a lot of it very compelling. However, I will not take it as the final word. I do however, consider it. I don't appreciate your accusation regarding me throwing out the L/L Research so I can be right, or that I have an "attitude," or that I am trying to convert the rest of the world.

The last part that was after the hard return line was meant to not be directed at anybody in particular. Just a general comment, indicated toward all those who might scroll past the words.

As for claiming you are trying to convert the world- I will take that part back. Those were my words, not yours.

Would you contend that in order to be here on this site that I be a "follower" of Ra? If that is the case, then please, Monica, or some other moderator, ask me to leave and I will do so willingly and with gratitude for my time here.

No. I am neither contending that, nor asking you to leave.

[Diana]

My apologies for mischaracterizing your view.

Thank you .

---

The last part that was after the hard return line was meant to not be directed at anybody in particular. Just a general comment, indicated toward all those who might scroll past the words.

I see that now. Sorry for taking it personally when it wasn't meant that way.

[Monica]

My apologies for mischaracterizing your view.

Thank you .

---

The last part that was after the hard return line was meant to not be directed at anybody in particular. Just a general comment, indicated toward all those who might scroll past the words.

I see that now. Sorry for taking it personally when it wasn't meant that way.

GROUP HUG!!!

[Diana]

Yeah I ran out of my seed bars so I took beans to work, man I am still feeling the side effects. I also can't eat rice anymore.

I have read that the photon has changed the rate of decay, and that our digestion is affected from this. I have also read somewhere that we need to eat less dense foods, or lighter foods. That could have a few different meanings actually.

Where did you read about the photon rate of decay?

And, do you make your own seed bars? If so, could you give me the recipe?

[Derek]

This thread is SO lower three chakras

[Tenet Nosce]

...

Oh holy hell I just typed out a whole response that was actually getting somewhere and my window decided to magically refresh itself! Sorry I will have to leave you hanging for the moment...

[Monica]

Oh holy hell I just typed out a whole response that was actually getting somewhere and my window decided to magically refresh itself! Sorry I will have to leave you hanging for the moment...

Hurry! I can't stand the suspense!

[Diana]

This thread is SO lower three chakras

How so, Derek?

[Tenet Nosce]

Oh holy hell I just typed out a whole response that was actually getting somewhere and my window decided to magically refresh itself! Sorry I will have to leave you hanging for the moment...

Hurry! I can't stand the suspense!

Interestingly, the "work stuff" I needed to do led me to this:

Identifying Smart Food Choices on the Path to Healthier Diets

In my opinion, stuff like this is going to be much more impactful than making meat-eaters "wrong". Sorry that's all I got for ya at this moment.

---

I will address the "tossing aside" comments, reliability, etc. Especially since Namaste and Ankh have weighed in as well- just so we don't have to retrace our steps here.

To me, a concept such as nested densities is extremely central to the paradigm offered to us by Ra and Q'uo. This is not a sidebar item that can easily be "tossed aside" when it becomes inconvenient to one's argument in a particular thread.

This is what I refer to as playing the "Does Not Resonate" card. If somebody takes a particular quote or transcript and seriously contemplates in their own inner chambers, and comes up with something different than what Ra or Q'uo said- that is a totally legitimate thing in my mind.

Playing the "Does Not Resonate" card refers to using it like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in Monopoly. That means somebody has been backed into a corner in their argumentation, and suddenly throws up "Does Not Resonate" as a last-ditch effort and just trying to basically slither out of it, or save face, or not "admit defeat" or whatever else they might be making up in their mind about the situation.

I have observed the "Does Not Resonate" to be a derailing tactic peculiar to forums of this nature. Of course the reason being that most people wouldn't give any weight to "Does Not Resonate" much less full weight to it as some apparently believe it should carry.

Now I fully admit it is difficult to discern exactly who is doing this and when, which is why I tend to reserve such commentaries for "people in general" and not individuals.

However, that being said, when I observe the same individual forwarding arguments in multiple threads, then playing the "Does Not Resonate" card over and over again, this is when I start to wonder about motives and hidden agendas. Also note that playing the card doesn't have to look exactly like that. I think "It's All Subjective" is a very similar move, for example.

In a different scenario, when I observe that a certain individual almost never plays "Does Not Resonate" but then comes out strongly with it on a particular hot-button issue, I take that as a sign to look for personal bias. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but that is how I think.

No, the material is not infallible. But it is extremely reliable. Having read hundreds of L/L Research transcripts, I can attest that the material is highly consistent, and coherent. It rarely ever contradicts itself, and in those times when I have found a contradiction, I later came to a higher understanding in which the contradictions were resolved. So I tend to trust the material. I realize this may be more difficult for others, for various reasons.

Moreover, I observe that nearly every channeled source offers some discourse on this particular concept of nested densities, and not one has contradicted it. This concept also is a dead-ringer on my internal Truth-O-Meter. So I am really unlikely to budge on this one. I really do apologize if I come across as self-righteous, but I am quite certain this is the correct model for reality.

Life within life within life. Densities within densities within densities.

Seeing as how nested densities is actually part of the fabric of Creation itself, what does this say for the idea of third density becoming fourth density? It kind of doesn't make sense.

What I think you and others are talking about is the process of coming to hold a particular frequency or energy pattern which is congruent with fourth density while still remaining in third density. This is what creates a bridge for consciousness to be transferred from one realm to another.

But fourth density is another realm altogether. Third density is nested inside of it. That is what the material actually says. This doesn't fall under the category of "what TN thinks it says". I am having a really difficult time comprehending how this could be read differently or interpreted otherwise. Though upon reflection I can see that I didn't quite "get" this at first, or even second or third glance. It is a bit elusive to the mind to grasp.

But now that I do, I see that so many other concepts are built upon, or lean upon, this one that to take it away would basically amount to invalidating the whole body of material.

As discussed in The Detuning of Session 17 and Ra's True Intentions Regarding 2011 - Part II I am open to considering that certain sessions carry greater levels of distortion than others, and even attempted to link it to documented evidence of solar activity during or immediately prior to the session. As it turned out, some of the more seemingly contradictory statements appear to be temporally linked to solar activity.

I also noted that reports of "psychic attack" seemed to also coincide with these sessions and further postulated that the negative entities were somehow feeding upon the increased solar energy and resulting geomagnetic fluctuations- which may be intended as a "food" source for human beings. Perhaps this might even be connected to the desire to eat meat?!

However, as regards the session in question, I personally find this to be quite crystal clear. Do you see any signs of distortion in the session that I may have missed?

Moreover, this is what Carla had to say on the matter at Homecoming 2010:

Basically for Q’uo that’s the story. The train’s coming! Get on board and thank the Lord. Everything’s okay, there’s no need to fear.

In a session [recorded] February 13, 2010, Q’uo says, “Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth. Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth. These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within time/space and space/time held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your Sun.”

This is an important point. The densities nest. We don’t stand here on this very ground and then at the Winter Solstice it turns into fourth-density Earth. It continues being third-density Earth. The fourth-density Earth is of a far more dense nature, denser with light; denser with information, and it nests within the third density, which nests within second [density], which nests within first [density]. All of the densities nest together, sort of like those Russian dolls that, [when] you open the biggest doll, there’s a smaller one, then a smaller one, and a smaller one. But I don’t think it’s [exactly] like that. I think the densities interpenetrate.

Fourth Annual Earth Transformation Conference - Kona, Hawaii - Talk on 2012

2012 is a non-event in terms of physicality because it has to do with the planet changing. And that planetary change doesn’t have to do with third density. Fourth density exists, [b]nested over and interpenetrating third density. Third density doesn’t end so the fourth density can take over, that’s not it. Fourth density Earth is a whole different sphere.[/b] You know from your studies in high school [that] there’s so much space between the atoms, there’s plenty of space for things to interpenetrate and plenty of space for a nest of creations.

A Monday night conference call later that year:

I could; actually I’ve had experience with that that is very eye-opening. The first thing that people think about third density going into fourth is that it’s all going to take place on this one planet. That’s actually not true. [Not true... as in wrong]

The densities are nested in this planetary influence. The Confederation always speaks of planetary influences rather than planets, because in each density the planet is there, it looks the same. But third density is a density of physicality. It’s a density of chemicals. It’s a density of our bodies as chemical distilleries.

Fourth density is a density that is metaphysical in nature; and it could be compared to the inner planes in terms of its make-up. So, it interpenetrates, just as first and second density interpenetrate third density, so that we see first density. We see the rocks, we see the powers: the air, the fire, the rain, the earth. We see second density’s animals and plants. But we’re actually on a third-density Earth, and so we are seeing that which includes all of it. In fourth density we see third, second and first densities, but we see them from a metaphysical point of view. They’re all energy. It’s energy bodies. It’s an energy planet. It’s not the same planet. Third density doesn’t have to clear out to make room for fourth density.

“Connecting the Light” interview from November 2009:

Mike: Now, you have been talking mainly about the third density there. So the people that move into the fourth density, will they just simply disappear from sight because they are in the higher vibration and be in a level still around the old Earth? Or will they actually be progressing to a new Earth?

Carla: Well the densities are nested. You have all of the densities nested. And once you grasp the fact that there isn’t any such thing as mass, there is just energy fields, you can see how there is plenty of room to nest all of the densities of Earth together and have them inter-penetrate. So we are interpenetrated with the fourth density now. And as our third-density light wanes and dies, fourth density light dawns and becomes brighter and starts its scroll of unwinding progression through that density.

I think that it is out of courtesy to third density that we don’t see the fourth-density entities now. I think that when the last purely third-density entity is gone, we will start seeing fourth density, just like we in third density now see animals and plants in the second density and the elements and powers like earth, air, water, fire in first density. They inter-penetrate and they can be seen. But the Confederation has said quite a few times that there is a matter of basic good manners, which would mean that you do not blow third-density people’s minds by having fourth density appearing, with so much more light, so much more information, etc.

What you are getting in third density, however, is this inter-penetrated fourth-density light; this light of truth that has so much more information and is pretty much, especially as third density light wanes, forcing the people that are working to make their choice, to make their choice. to see everything about themselves that they did not want to see. It is all coming up and demanding to be noticed so that it can be integrated into the self and so that the self can gather itself into the open heart, forgive itself, accept itself and love itself.

[Diana]

But fourth density is another realm altogether. Third density is nested inside of it. That is what the material actually says. This doesn't fall under the category of "what TN thinks it says". I am having a really difficult time comprehending how this could be read differently or interpreted otherwise.

If I understand this, you're saying that the densities are separate (though nested). But aren't all things connected? Electrons "pop in and out of existence." Where do they go, and why do we only sometimes "see" them? Could it be that different dimensions have a flow in-between them? If so, it would make sense that one could aspire to 4D while in 3D and help pull the energy toward it for all or self.

[Monica]

Thanks for the thoughtful explanation, Tenet! I'm going to split these posts into their own thread. (So please don't mix any meat stuff into the posts until I can do that.)

I don't disagree with the nested densities concept. I just don't see them as solid and separate. I think entities can 'quantum jump' from 1 reality to another. This idea is supported by M Theory and the work of Nassim Haramein, and is explored in the movie What the Bleep (tho some of the science in that movie is a bit shaky.)

Q'uo has alluded to this too, by speaking about how much power is really in us that we aren't even aware of.

If I understand this, you're saying that the densities are separate (though nested). But aren't all things connected? Electrons "pop in and out of existence." Where do they go, and why do we only sometimes "see" them? Could it be that different dimensions have a flow in-between them? If so, it would make sense that one could aspire to 4D while in 3D and help pull the energy toward it for all or self.

Exactly. And, sacred geometry shows where some of those conduits are. Nassim's work explores this. And my opinion is that's what many of the crop circles are trying to tell us.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thanks for the thoughtful explanation, Tenet!

OK.. also be sure to go back and check on the post again. I think I added to it after you read it.

---

I don't disagree with the nested densities concept. I just don't see them as solid and separate. I think entities can 'quantum jump' from 1 reality to another. This idea is supported by M Theory and the work of Nassim Haramein, and is explored in the movie What the Bleep (tho some of the science in that movie is a bit shaky.)

Well, I would hope so! Which is why I would be "shocked and amazed" that you would conclude that third density becomes fourth density. In particular due to this quote:

February 10, 2008 - Session 13 - Closing Meditation

We realize that it is difficult to imagine what shall happen after the year 2012, since that is when third density ends and fourth density begins. And we can only describe to you that which is to occur by asking you to realize that all of the densities of Planet Earth within this octave, one through seven, are nested together and interpenetrate each other, much as the various channels on your television set are nested together, being picked up by the same transmitters and receivers and being available by the turn of the knob from one to another to another.

Indeed, there are those among your peoples who are able to switch from the channel of third density to the channel of fourth density now [we can "switch channels"?!!] , and who can somewhat reliably report on the development of fourth density. Fourth density, indeed, is fully formed at this time. Because it would violate the free will of third-density entities, fourth density chooses not to be seen, not to be visible to the five senses of your human bodies. Yet it is impossible to eliminate or hide the vibrations of fourth density, which are interpenetrating third density at this time.

Indeed, it is not even desirable to attempt to hide or remove these waves upon waves of fourth-density energy. For they are another part of that which is enabling the last of those who would be harvested at the end of third density on Planet Earth to do their work, to proceed, and to polarize to the extent that they shall, with no trouble whatsoever, walk the steps of light that lead into fourth density.

However, third-density Earth has absorbed a great deal of the accumulated neglect that speaks to the racial karma of many, many of those who are upon Planet Earth at this time, who have come to this planet from planets in which their own third density was interrupted by their removing the ability to live a third-density existence on their home planet. In some cases they have even blown their planet to smithereens. In other cases they have simply rendered the planet or, in Atlantis’ case, the continent, uninhabitable.

There has been an ever-increasing energy among those who are incarnate upon Planet Earth at this time towards desiring to retake the reins of stewardship of Gaia, of Mother Earth, and to administer healing and restoration to the planet which has been so loving and so good to them, and has been their home. And this shall continue for some hundreds of your years to be that great work which many [not all] who graduate from third density wish to accomplish before they move on into other lessons.

So, at this time there is a tremendous energy of new life and new growth upon your planet, due to the influx of fourth-density wanderers from your own planet. Those of you who have children know that these children are qualitatively different than the children that perhaps you knew as a child, or those children which have lived here in centuries past. These are children who are able to run third-density energy and light and fourth-density energy and light. Therefore, to them the veil is much thinner, and the truth of love is much more obvious.

So, within these days when 2012 has come and gone, information such as is collected and offered for sharing by this group shall be increasingly helpful because there will be far more interest in the spiritual as opposed to the religious. And those words which speak to the stewardship of the planet, as well as those words which speak of unconditional love and the oneness of all things, shall be as meat and drink to those who are searching for the way to be of maximum service at this time.

Many and many are those who are incarnate at this time as fourth-density wanderers from third density Earth. They have come back for the reason of stewardship to the planet, and within this next five-year period, for the lightening of Planet Earth and the maximization of the harvest of Earth. [This is the "true" purpose of Wanderers, by this I mean as in "true north" of their inner compass]

This is that of which we see as a valuable service, and we are ready to offer our thoughts through instruments such as this one not only until 2012 but as long as there are those entities upon Planet Earth who are devoted to the restoration of the planet and to the healing of the nations.

Shall you in one fine, strong moment be able to change the face of the Earth? Naturally, it is extremely unlikely. It is likely that those who are polarizing towards negative graduation shall continue to hog the news, the headlines, and the avenues of power on this planet. And yet the vast majority of the population of Planet Earth lives without regard to the avenues of power, looking for truth, justice, liberty, beauty and all the fourth-density values within the humble pages of a humbly-lived life.

Based on your signature, I think Q'uo may have intended this one especially for you!

---

If I understand this, you're saying that the densities are separate (though nested). But aren't all things connected? Electrons "pop in and out of existence." Where do they go, and why do we only sometimes "see" them? Could it be that different dimensions have a flow in-between them? If so, it would make sense that one could aspire to 4D while in 3D and help pull the energy toward it for all or self.

I think this addresses these questions quite nicely. And also, please read what I quoted in my response to Bring4th_Monica, as this "just so happens" to come from the same session where Q'uo is talking about nested densities:

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...10_04.aspx

The new paradigm is that in which entities share and share alike, in which entities love each other, become harmonious with each other, and create one world of peace and prosperity. That kind of prosperity does not create huge differences in estate but rather tends toward that happy situation of there being enough of the resources that are needed for all entities.

It is not that this new paradigm can be put into effect and a new fourth-density planet be created in third density. That is not what we are saying. What we are saying is that in third density, the focus in terms of the purpose of third density is upon each emerging self-aware spirit or soul becoming able to make the free-will choice between the polarity of service to others and the polarity of service to self through faith alone.

All I am trying to say is that this free-will choice can be made by a meat-eater. And upon arrival in fourth-density they will not be offered meat to eat. Problem solved.

[Ruth]

"Shall you in one fine, strong moment be able to change the face of the Earth? Naturally, it is extremely unlikely. It is likely that those who are polarizing towards negative graduation shall continue to hog the news, the headlines, and the avenues of power on this planet. And yet the vast majority of the population of Planet Earth lives without regard to the avenues of power, looking for truth, justice, liberty, beauty and all the fourth-density values within the humble pages of a humbly-lived life."

Tenet Nosce, do you think Q'uo is saying that we should be trying to hog the avenues of power? That doing so would somehow assist with changing the face of the Earth?

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet Nosce, do you think Q'uo is saying that we should be trying to hog the avenues of power? That doing so would somehow assist with changing the face of the Earth?

No, I would infer that Q'uo would suggest precisely not trying to hog the avenues of power. This is why I tend to downplay the importance of advocacy and "rising up" against the establishment. This is also why I feel like trying to legislate "4D values" or behaviors misses the mark.

The government really isn't in charge anyway. They clearly answer to transnational corporations and banks. It just seems like wasted effort to me.

---

I would advise a tactic more focused on withdrawal of support or nonviolent nonparticipation in those avenues of power currently being hogged. This definitely means not buying Tyson chicken... but as for an organic free-range chicken from the farm up the street? I just don't see how that makes sense. Those are the people that I do want to support. I don't see anything wrong with their raising animals for meat. When they get to 4D they will need to find a new job, and new food, along with the rest of us. I see those people as allies, not enemies.

Why would we waste our precious time (it is of the essence) on idealistic battles aimed at the global implementation of vegetarianism? I think such a feat would require time beyond the "few hundred years" we have been given. It would appear easily overlooked that people have been arguing about vegetarianism for at least 6000 years- since before the Ra contact with Imhotep. If you ask me- I think it mostly serves the interests of the power hogs to keep the people fighting over these idealistic side-issues.

If one observes the world right now- it seems that every special interest group with a particular agenda has at some level decided that 2012 is the year to "make it happen". Whether the agenda is "good" or "evil" doesn't matter. It has a negative effect on polarity. Why so quick to draw lines in the sand and take up battle arms? What program is telling us to prepare for "Armageddon"? Which voices are we really listening to? :idea:

(09 Apr 89)

However, that Armageddon, shall we say, has been raging for two hundred of your years already upon the spirit plane and seems to be that which has no probability either way, for the good [in] winning loses its polarity and must fall back to regroup, at which time the negative moves forward to take light. The battle is a delusion of fourth density, which fourth density entities learn for themselves the wisdom or folly of.

The battle is a delusion. This q'uote is over twenty years old. And still some 4D entities associated with Earth continue to rage Armageddon on the spirit plane. Haven't they had enough yet? Or will they not rest until every last animal roams free in the streets? I suppose they, too, would declare that they just "do not resonate" with those of Q'uo.

There are other hot-button side-issues such as this one. I won't name them all so as not to be incendiary and further derailing, but think about what other kinds of "highly charged" topics become non-issues when truly viewed from a higher perspective.

I will give one example... murder. See, in third density the veil allows me to believe that separating your consciousness from your body will somehow free me from your influence. Since you appear "dead" I get to believe that you can no longer exert whatever negative influence I thought you had over me. Of course in actuality, my believing this doesn't really make it true. But at least I get to live in my little fantasy world for a while, or until I bite the big one myself at which point I will be promptly smacked in the proverbial face with the reality that I previously denied.

In fourth density, such logic is absurd. It is patently obvious that such an act would only serve to karmically bind me to you. Moreover, prematurely separating your consciousness from your body might even result in you receiving a new and improved body with which to point and laugh at me for actually having done you a service! Therefore it is not morally wrong inasmuch as just plain stupid or nonsensical. Therefore, not really an issue. To me... this is what is really meant by "4D values".

Then again, it would appear that many 4D entities still perceive participating in battles of various sorts as wise and/or necessary, so maybe I am projecting 5D/6D values into 4D. :exclamation:

Nevertheless, I also find this happens to explain why negative entities use murder as a means of last resort. It is much more advantageous to imprison their adversaries, whether in physical shackles hanging from a dungeon wall, or in a tiny cubicle with fluorescent lighting, or even in their own living room watching Jersey Shore. Whatever suits the spirit of the times. I think when certain people get "taken out" it is a sign that something went horribly awry with the negative agenda. Something slipped past their ability to control because at the highest levels they understand what really happens on the other side of the veil. It is a sign of desperation or "failure to accept that which is given".

(09 Apr 89, cont.)

However, you are more than pawns in this game. These entities are not more powerful than you, not in the metaphysical sense. That is, perhaps they might, in some negative manner, cause the entity to cease living, cause the discomfort or the pain, the embarrassment or the humiliation or the fright, but they too are bound by the basic laws of free will and prey largely upon those whose minds are not complex in their thinking processes.

Interesting. This would seem to imply that killing another entity is not actually an act of power in favor of the killer.

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

When contrasted with imprisoning consciousness within the body, and not allowing it to freely depart. Now that is a real crime in my book.

[Namaste]

Dog rescues kittens

You have to be one seriously unevolved, compassionless ******* to do that to animals.

It's a paradox. While I understand how people can do it, I don't understand how people can do it.

*Balances self*

[Oceania]

*hugs*

[BrownEye]

When contrasted with imprisoning consciousness within the body, and not allowing it to freely depart. Now that is a real crime in my book.

Hmm, do you feel imprisoned?

[Oceania]

i do! but i'm afraid to leave

[BrownEye]

It sounds almost like he feels that our existence is some sort of evil conspiracy LoL.

In reality, outside of the trap of the body, in our level of evolution, we would be like a person without hands or arms. We can travel and move our consiousness around, but we cannot do anything.

[Ruth]

In reality, outside of the trap of the body, in our level of evolution, we would be like a person without hands or arms. We can travel and move our consiousness around, but we cannot do anything.

I think we can "do" a great deal - but it is all spirit/energy work - not physical. At least I haven't advanced enough to make an impact to make objects move etc. like some have.