The Detuning of Session 17 and Ra's True Intentions Regarding 2011 - Part II

[zenmaster]

when someone comes up with strong pointers to its imminent eventuality, suddenly people forget about it.

So just who has come up with strong pointers to its imminent eventuality?

anything than being in some distant, distant future in a hazy fashion enough to have no potential of disturbing the current setup of self, triggers a lot of stuff.

A lot of stuff within yourself, apparently. Your constant accusation of upsetting the applecart in regards to '3D-based plans being cancelled' is your projection. You do at least suspect that, don't you? It's almost laughable if you weren't so serious and adamant about that being the conscious/unconscious rationale or motivation for those that don't subscribe to your biased conclusions/desires. To actually resort to or attempt to appeal to that base, ego-centric mind set does say something about your own 'drama' with regards to how you view the situation.

[BrownEye]

I haven't taken the time to read the whole thread. But good job using your neurons Icaro. Easy to see if you look right at it. Dang I haven't even read through the books yet. A couple pages keep me happy for weeks.

I love this line though.

"Since the concepts of space/time, or physics, and time/space, or metaphysics, are mechanical they are not central to the spiritual evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex."

Im stuck in the mechanical nature of things.

[unity100]

when someone comes up with strong pointers to its imminent eventuality, suddenly people forget about it.

So just who has come up with strong pointers to its imminent eventuality?

there are 4 thread full of quotes and information as of this moment. has the above question been asked in naivete of the expectancy of prompting the other person to go about reiterating all of those again ?

anything than being in some distant, distant future in a hazy fashion enough to have no potential of disturbing the current setup of self, triggers a lot of stuff.

A lot of stuff within yourself, apparently. Your constant accusation of upsetting the applecart in regards to '3D-based plans being cancelled' is your projection. You do at least suspect that, don't you? It's almost laughable if you weren't so serious and adamant about that being the conscious/unconscious rationale or motivation for those that don't subscribe to your biased conclusions/desires. To actually resort to or attempt to appeal to that base, ego-centric mind set does say something about your own 'drama' with regards to how you view the situation.

if you have not attended those discussions, then dont come up talking in such strong fashion. and it seems, you havent.

this situation, and the eventual conclusion that the information dig by tenet nosce has actually pushed me to change my perspective from something 'gradual' to fast. there was no other logical way out of that in the wake of the information that was dug out. had there been 'issues' in me, i wouldnt have been actually arguing for the fast proposition, but instead trying to force myself to come up with some way to ensure that everything was 'gradual'.

i didnt do that. when presented with a more sound and logical information than what i had in hand, i changed my perspective.

what's laughable is someone coming up and accusing someone else with ego-centric this, issues that, projection this, bias that.

let me tell you what bias is

bias is going to the extent of unwittingly proposing invalidation of 90% of the information you actually do NOT want invalidated, and therefore getting into a dilemma - just to be able to go around some information you find undesirable.

if a person comes starts with reinterpreting, and moves on to attempt totally denying existence of, and then goes to calling to authority, than to totally abstracting and metaphorizing everything to the extent of making any kind of information totally ambiguous to oblivion and then moves on to trying to invalidate a piece of undesirable information, not realizing that the proposition that s/he proposes would invalidate ANYthing unwittingly, AND then, even after facing that eventuality, still does not let go of either the material which s/he mistakenly proposed invalidation of in all that haste, nor the attempt to find ways to invalidate a single quote or 1-2 quotes, and tries to introduce 'sufficient' level of invalidation just to invalidate the undesired elements without ANY kind of usable, generally applicable measure and footing ( long isnt it. but it doesnt stop here ) and when that also fails then proceeds to ignoring basic meanings of base, plain grammatical english sentences and makes them refer to something they dont refer and then ....

no really. it is long and tiring. and it is some sequence you apparently had not at all followed. for, this is what had happened. and it seems, its still continuing in OTHER threads that are not directly relevant to this specific subject, despite there are now 2 threads just for this.

this is what you call an 'issue' with a particular information, or, some strong bias which doesnt let go, or some fixation, or whatever you call it. one could easily come up and say 'ra is not infallible, they are wrong in this' and with that they could be even right. but, the person does not want to do that, because s/he trusts Ra and the material. but, s/he doesnt want to have that uncomfortable piece of information in the material either, so attempts to invalidate just that.

so, then dont come up ridiculously accusing me of bias or issues - despite i had promptly changed my perspective regarding this when presented with information i cant easily deny or invalidate - there being no difference on my side in regard to any kind of '3d plans' being cancelled or re-instituted for either of the cases. it actually doesnt differ much for me. but apparently, for others, it does.

sarcasm is something that can be worked out to a certain degree. but, not participating in threads, not knowing about progression of events and arguments, and then jumping in at the butt end of some subject and making grand assumptions and accusations is not. there can be no logical or rational interaction and exchange of any kind of thing, leave aside information or ideas can be done when people do that.

[zenmaster]

Much of that the information is sort of self-feeding. Kind of like seeing things through a small filter of transient interest for the purpose, presumably, of pointing out some imbalance related to denial of 3D-related responsibilities. It mainly serves to reinforce prejudices.

so, then dont come up ridiculously accusing me of bias or issues - despite i had promptly changed my perspective regarding this when presented with information i cant easily deny or invalidate - there being no difference on my side in regard to any kind of '3d plans' being cancelled or re-instituted for either of the cases. it actually doesnt differ much for me. but apparently, for others, it does.

So you change your mind and admit you make mistakes? Fine, but that's not the point and means little with regards to veracity, it does say something about not being rigid in beliefs. Changing your mind does mean you are still struggling with the concept in the context of your own, custom drama which is deep into some obsession (every 20 mins??) to correlate some guy's timing system with the world danger map, solar flares, magnetosphere, etc. (really what are you going to do next month on the 29th?)

Specifically, I was referring to your projections regarding those who disagree with your worldview and how they are suspiciously depicted as being in denial due to somehow having their plans upset (by your contrived sudden 3D-ending scenario). Such a depiction is incongruous on a forum of 'wanderers' or somewhat dedicated 'seekers', who would be past that base level of ego integration.

[unity100]

there is nothing 'self-feeding' about plain direct english sentences.

So you change your mind and admit you make mistakes?

what 'mistake' ? i havent even expressed any kind of conclusion or information regarding this subject in the forum up to that point. more information that in possessed was presented, and i have changed my perspective accordingly, as any rational person should have done. instead of doggedly insisting on my perspective by going to the lengths of hypocritically trying to invalidate entirety of the material.

Changing your mind does mean you are still struggling with the concept in the context of your own, custom drama which is deep into some obsession (every 20 mins??) to correlate some guy's timing system with the world danger map, solar flares, magnetosphere, etc. (really what are you going to do next month on the 29th?)

haaaa -> thats your problem. why dont you just come up directly and spill the problem before going to make grand accusations ?

however none of those have any relevance to the subject, since the entire discussion i have participated and the arguments i have given revolves around whether one should proceed to invalidate entirety of Ra material unwittingly in order to skip by one uncomfortable plain english sentence or not. i defended the latter. as any rational person should do.

Specifically, I was referring to your projections regarding those who disagree with your worldview and how they are suspiciously depicted as being in denial due to somehow having their plans upset (by your contrived sudden 3D-ending scenario). Such a depiction is incongruous on a forum of 'wanderers' or somewhat dedicated 'seekers', who would be past that base level of ego integration.

first, it is not my world view. it is 3 separate, plain english answers to plain english questions, that dont go with the biases of one particular person. i said one particular person, because there is up to this point only one person i have claimed to be seeming to have a bias that s/he cant let go in THIS subject.

and, there IS a bias when someone goes to the below lengths in order to circumnavigate one or two english sentences.

if a person comes starts with reinterpreting, and moves on to attempt totally denying existence of, and then goes to calling to authority, than to totally abstracting and metaphorizing everything to the extent of making any kind of information totally ambiguous to oblivion and then moves on to trying to invalidate a piece of undesirable information, not realizing that the proposition that s/he proposes would invalidate ANYthing unwittingly, AND then, even after facing that eventuality, still does not let go of either the material which s/he mistakenly proposed invalidation of in all that haste, nor the attempt to find ways to invalidate a single quote or 1-2 quotes, and tries to introduce 'sufficient' level of invalidation just to invalidate the undesired elements without ANY kind of usable, generally applicable measure and footing ( long isnt it. but it doesnt stop here ) and when that also fails then proceeds to ignoring basic meanings of base, plain grammatical english sentences and makes them refer to something they dont refer and then ....

this went on for FOUR separate threads which are each longer than at least 5 pages on average. some are even longer.

yes, the above, can only be a bias, fixation, or a fear, or a belief, or ANY kind of thing that does not let one's mind go. period. there is no other explanation, because the person does not exhibit the same behavior in any other kind of seemingly uncomfortable information.

if someone behaves totally contrary to the logic and rationale and behavior s/he presents in any kind of subject s/he participates, but, goes to the extreme lengths to circumnavigate just one little piece of information in the above fashion. yes, its something related to bias or fixation fear, whatever you call it.

'world view' -> what world view. there are around 3 plain english sentences with direct answers to direct questions.

---

really.

why dont you go first read the four threads you are attempting to talk about and see who is actually defending what, and then come make grand assumptions and accusations ?

[Tenet Nosce]

this situation, and the eventual conclusion that the information dig by tenet nosce has actually pushed me to change my perspective from something 'gradual' to fast.

Just for a recap, as I am not sure who you are thinking believes what at this point, I am still of the mind that harvest is a discrete event, lasting about a year at most, which is nearly upon us. What form that will take remains to be seen, and according to my understanding, will vary widely among entities. As such, it would be wise to make efforts to move from a less fearful to a more joyful stance in relation to this event, as is our choice.

My persisting in this thread is an attempt to further understand the torrent of confusion which has ensued, and thereby learn/teach a fundamental mechanic of confusion itself. We are currently looking at some interesting hypotheses here, and so far the effort appears to be fruitful. False conclusions will inevitably be drawn, and premises may be reevaluated. This is the process of learning.

We would suggest that when one is both punished and rewarded for the same action there may be the confusion in the participation in that action. That is so in many realms of your people’s experience and is a portion of the confusion which each has the opportunity to wend its way through, for within such confusion one must exercise the inner strength and become strong. If there were no confusion there would then be less opportunity to gain that spiritual strength by which one may evolve in mind, body and spirit.

If there is some hypothesis present, the conclusion of which leads us to deduce that the Ra material is 90% invalid, then I agree it should be discarded. However I see no such hypothesis here. Either I am missing it, or I am missing a step in deduction from the hypothesis to the untenable conclusion that invalidates the material.

[unity100]

My persisting in this thread is an attempt to further understand the torrent of confusion which has ensued, and thereby learn/teach a fundamental mechanic of confusion itself. We are currently looking at some interesting hypotheses here, and so far the effort appears to be fruitful. False conclusions will inevitably be drawn, and premises may be reevaluated. This is the process of learning.

and my persisting in this and few other threads was due to a necessity to emphasize that hypocritical application of logic and standards and wanton switches of approach depending on subject was something that should not be done. neither giving lip service as 'i am open to all possibilities' while doing all that.

it doesnt even matter who believes what. its totally about something else.

the subject may have been something else than 2011 date. the subject may have been something that is not even related to harvest. but if someone had applied one kind of logic 90% of the time, and then suddenly switched to some other logic for two tiny pieces of information on one subject, but still had taken precautions not to let go of the former approach in order to apply it to everything else when the particular subject is eliminated, i would have given the exact same kind of reaction.

saddest point of all this story has been someone attempting to claim that Ra material was compromised based on on-demand and on the spot subjective non-measurements (questioner's purity at that given point in time instantly measured - really ? despite being irrelevant to boot), just for ONE quote (thankfully it has been expanded to two quotes when objected about the selectiveness), not being aware that the proposition would invalidate everything after that quote, and then being rather hasty in trying to fix it up when faced with the prospect, in a makeshift manner - this time by totally invalidating common english sentences.

my problem is that - if you have a standard, you apply it everywhere. you dont selectively skip it when things get uncomfortable, for any reason.

[Raman]

Questioner: Can you tell me why you say that the Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative since there seems to be much negativity here now?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your time/space present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

RELISTENED PROJECT below:

Questioner: Can you tell me why Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.[/quote]

[3DMonkey]

my problem is that - if you have a standard, you apply it everywhere. you dont selectively skip it when things get uncomfortable, for any reason.

I think, in all this, we do understand this unity100. And we, at least I (even though I'm not up in this discussion), view our standards similarly. I know my standards aren't apparent... even to persons IRL, but the thing is, each individuals standards are applied "everywhere" for them. We are all "right" and we are all "wrong". We are each "right" and we are each "wrong".

[Raman]

Questioner: Can you explain what you mean by a seniority by vibration?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final question of this session of working. Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final question of this session of working.

The seniority by vibration is the preferential treatment, shall we say, which follows the ways of the Law of One which encourages harvestable individuals, each individual becoming aware of the time of harvest and the need on a self-level to bend mind, body, and spirit towards the learn/teaching of these lessons, is given priority in order that this entity may have the best possible chance, shall we say, of succeeding in this attempt.

===============================================

Seems these dates will be valuable only to some.

[unity100]

Questioner: Can you tell me why you say that the Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative since there seems to be much negativity here now?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your time/space present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

RELISTENED PROJECT below:

Questioner: Can you tell me why Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

[/quote]

that is an enlightening revelation.

[native]

Raman..Ra is speaking generally in that answer. They're illustrating the topic of seniority by vibration, and how an entity knows when the harvest is so they have priority when incarnating during the harvest.

Here's another from my first post..

52.9 Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

[Raman]

my problem is that - if you have a standard, you apply it everywhere. you dont selectively skip it when things get uncomfortable, for any reason.

I think, in all this, we do understand this unity100. And we, at least I (even though I'm not up in this discussion), view our standards similarly. I know my standards aren't apparent... even to persons IRL, but the thing is, each individuals standards are applied "everywhere" for them. We are all "right" and we are all "wrong". We are each "right" and we are each "wrong".

Arguments have been carried to absurd levels in both parts. Even bringing third world countries into argument into bringing contexts that are no likable to plain personal attacks on the persona.

The main thing is:

1) 2011 is a possible/probable nexus for harvest IN SPACE-TIME.

2) Same date is given by what (very reasonably assumption) the Mayans (or ancestors) which were visited by 6d group x2. This info is contained in the Ra material itself. Now we have 2 6d groups giving the same possible/probable nexus. In the case of south america the date is exquisitely exact.

Knowing this date can make a difference to seniority entities reincarnated to bend mind-body-spirit to learn lessons to have best possible chance.

It seems to me, dates will make sense to these entities.

[3DMonkey]

Questioner: Can you explain what you mean by a seniority by vibration?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final question of this session of working. Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final question of this session of working.

The seniority by vibration is the preferential treatment, shall we say, which follows the ways of the Law of One which encourages harvestable individuals, each individual becoming aware of the time of harvest and the need on a self-level to bend mind, body, and spirit towards the learn/teaching of these lessons, is given priority in order that this entity may have the best possible chance, shall we say, of succeeding in this attempt.

===============================================

Seems these dates will be valuable only to some.

it is of the moment!!

[Raman]

Raman..Ra is speaking generally in that answer. They're illustrating the topic of seniority by vibration, and how an entity knows when the harvest is so they have priority when incarnating during the harvest.

Here's another from my first post..

52.9 Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

See".... becoming aware..." in the quote

[Monica]

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

Hello, did anyone else notice this? For incarnations to take place during harvest, that means harvest is an ongoing process, not an instantaneous event!

[Raman]

Well that means IN THE CONTEXT ---context please...-- lets say harvest is to occur in 2011, it refers to the entities ALREADY incarnated.

[unity100]

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

Hello, did anyone else notice this? For incarnations to take place during harvest, that means harvest is an ongoing process, not an instantaneous event!

an event which will fit within a year.

[Monica]

an event which will fit within a year.

No, I don't think so. Ra is referring to entities incarnating. If only 1 year, then that would be new babies only. Furthermore, Ra specifically said Wanderers...those whose task it is to lighten the vibrations, thus potentially increasing the harvest. This can't mean newborn babies; that wouldn't make any sense.

Let's look at more of that quote:

52.9 Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

That settles it, in my mind. It proves that when Ra said "the harvest is now" they meant an ongoing process, and were referring to the harvesting of individual souls.

The 2011 date must refer to planetary harvest, ie. the official beginning of the transition to 4D, the completion of which will span 100-700 years.

Clear as can be!

[Raman]

Average life span now is what 70-80? Well that applies to whoever will be present (3 density entities) at the time of harvest. So is a person is born in 1936, that quote would apply to her since she is reincarnated at the time of harvest or will be during harvest.

[unity100]

an event which will fit within a year.

No, I don't think so. Ra is referring to entities incarnating. If only 1 year, then that would be new babies only. Furthermore, Ra specifically said Wanderers...those whose task it is to lighten the vibrations, thus potentially increasing the harvest. This can't mean newborn babies; that wouldn't make any sense.

it doesnt matter whether entity is just 1 years old, or in his/her mother's womb. it is still a fully developed spirit in time/space, where harvest takes place.

all that is needed for harvest is to be in the planetary influence of the planet.

Let's look at more of that quote:

That settles it, in my mind. It proves that when Ra said "the harvest is now" they meant an ongoing process, and were referring to the harvesting of individual souls.

The 2011 date must refer to planetary harvest, ie. the official beginning of the transition to 4D, the completion of which will span 100-700 years.

no 'individual' vs 'planetary harvest' was ever mentioned. when queried about positive/negative harvest, ra answered 'there is one harvest'. not two or three or planetary or individual.

[Raman]

Interesting to note that knowing the date would provide an incredible catalyst for senior 3d entities reincarnating just for harvest time. Moreover it could help wanderers to alleviate karmic issues gathered while in this current incarnation. A date of 2012, would be useless. If this is the case the south american group did a great service.

[native]

That settles it, in my mind. It proves that when Ra said "the harvest is now" they meant an ongoing process, and were referring to the harvesting of individual souls.

And.....50.5 The incarnation was understood to be one which would take place at harvest.

Which do you prefer? At, during, is now, causing a somewhat difficult harvest...take your pick.

[Tenet Nosce]

I had added the [tape flipped] to lawofone.info after listening to that session because that's what it sounded like to me. (There is the sound of tapes being flipped about 45 minutes into each session.) However, after Jim said it was him unloading groceries I went back and listened again and I think he's right.

This is fascinating! See what happened was some months ago I decided to review Book 1 and I noticed it there. But I hadn't noticed it before. This is what caused my mind to fixate there. I had been assuming that it actually was there the last time I read the material, and that my mind was being drawn there for a reason. As it is turning out, this was so but not for the reason I had in my mind.

This is what caused me to take a very close look at that section, and this is when I noticed something else I hadn't noticed before. Namely that Ra had explicitly offered to further discourse on the Law of One, and that Don instead asked about earth changes. Later still, during the ongoing hullabaloo over gradual vs sudden harvest, I went back to see where was the first time harvest actually appeared in the material, and there it was.

Which is why I have been saying that it is "all right there in Book One" because it sets up a vibrational pattern that persists throughout the remainder of the sessions. I am having trouble finding the words to describe it... I have tried forwarding this idea in different ways among various threads but it keeps getting met with resistance. So obviously, I haven't quite landed on it yet.

I'm not sure that it caused confusion. Ra basically just paused and waited for the noise to stop. (They did the same thing when the telephone rang a little bit later.) Carla wasn't in trance during the first session, and Ra hadn't, of course, given them the circle of one ritual yet, so there was no circle walked. Instead, Carla had challenged Ra in the same way that she challenges every source when she channels consciously.

I am saying it did cause confusion, as evidenced by us in this very forum being confused. Do you see what I am saying here?

I'm pretty sure Jim wasn't there when the session started. I don't know if he joined in after he unpacked the groceries. I believe that the session was actually supposed to be a teaching session for Carla's student Leonard and that the only people who were there were Carla, Don, and Leonard.

This is very interesting. Is there anything else you can share about Leonard?

As far as L/L knew going into the session, it was going to be another conscious channeling session with Hatonn, Latwii, or someone like that. They didn't know Ra would speak instead.

Exactly! See this is why I was drawn back in June to look at the transcripts immediately before the Ra contact. I was interested to see what was "going on" and if there was anything there that hinted that Ra was going to come through.

I documented my thoughts in 1981.01.05 - 1981.01.15 Last Hatonn Contact Before Ra. If you go back to that thread and reread them, now understanding why I had looked at those specific sessions, maybe it will make more sense. It also bears directly on this thread. Remember this exchange?

Thus, Hatonn has moved [to the] eighth or final or covering layer or dimension of this particular octave, stretched itself until it covers the entire planet and is tuning in and attempting to ameliorate by love that particular vibration which is doing the most harm to your peoples. This is a vibration of thought, not of deed.

So Latwii is basically insinuating that Hatonn was on the verge of making a mistake and infringing on the will of the people, and then was suddenly moved to 8D?!

I find that kind of strange. Hasn't an 8D entity already balanced love/wisdom and therefore never contemplate infringement on free will.

Ra said that each density has eight sub-densities. Maybe Latwii meant that Hatonn had moved to the eighth sub-density of third density. I agree with you that a truly eighth-density entity, which will have already rejoined the Creator, would be unlikely to make such an effort.

---

[END DIRECT RESPONSE TO βαθμιαίος]

Incidentally, this is what also caused me to read the session immediately following the last contact with Ra. As the contact ended so abruptly, I was interested to see what occurred in the next session. I document my thoughts on this in 1984.04.15 First Hatonn Contact After Ra.

Also notable is that I was apparently under the incorrect assumption that Don's suicide had occurred in the interim, and was projecting some anger into the situation. However, again there I am talking about similar ideas which have now resurfaced in this thread.

I have also observed this to be the thread where I perceived that unity100 was on the attack, after our disagreement in More Positive But Less Harvestable after the "Big Blowout". I recall this exchange where we found common ground:

I try to look at it from Ra's perspective. Ra decides to make an appearance, and almost immediately encounters the very distortion that they themselves unintentionally created over three thousand years prior.

however, the 'here it comes' was not a distortion that Ra created. it was yahweh's doing, in order to communicate coming of 4d. however it devolved into doomsday concept, and its modern reflection in spiritual literature is 'earth changes' in its most mild form.

Again, you can see how this is applicable to this thread.

This brings us right back to another "confusion quote" which Icaro brought up in his first post here. Again, there was another layer of confusion brought it as to information which was missing and added after the relistening project. As you may recall:

No date of 2,600 was ever mentioned before this session.

This is incorrect. There was a question/answer in session 16 that wasn't published until the relistening project. This is what Ra was correcting in session 17. See http://www.lawofone.info/show-diff.php?s...&sc=1&ss=1

Questioner: [What contacts has the Orion group made with our planet?]

Ra: I am Ra. Approximately four five thousand [45,000] years ago an attempt was made. It was not successful. Approximately two six oh oh, 2,600, years ago the group sent an entity of social memory complex to this planetary sphere. This effort met with some success but was in the space/time continuum lessened in impact. Since approximately two three oh oh, 2,300 years ago in your measure this group has constantly been working upon the harvest just as the Confederation.

Questioner: Can you name the entity that they sent 2,600 years ago?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity named by your peoples, Yahweh.

Now looking again at the "correction quote":

Ra: Before we communicate by answer we shall correct an error which we have discovered in the transmission of our information to you. We have difficulty dealing with your time/space. There may again be errors of this type. Feel free to question us that we may recalculate in your time/space measurements.

The error we have discovered concerns one of the arrivals of both the Orion group into your planetary sphere of influence and the corresponding arrival of emissaries of the Confederation. We gave dates of 2,600 years for the Orion entry, 2,300 for Confederation entry. This is incorrect. The recalculation indicates numbers 3,600 for Orion entry, 3,300 for Confederation entry.

we see that the corrected dates are: 3600 years ago (~1600 BC) for Orion entry, and 3300 years ago (~1300 BC) for Confederation entry. Which is precisely the time I offered in More Positive but Less Harvestable for the Ra contact with Akhenaten, which is also consistent with the historical record.

unity100 picked up that I had made an error with respect to the "true" and "false" yahweh, but himself gets the dates wrong in his correction:

that wouldnt be relevant. 'yahweh lurking around' would be inappropriate for the time of Ra contact, since you are apparently referring to the orion entity which usurped yahweh's identity after 1600 BC. Ra contact, in the latest, is 2300 BC or so. before 1600 BC date, yahweh was the confederation entity, positive yahweh. there would be no concept of yahweh 'lurking' around that time.

Argument then ensues between unity100 and I over the validity of specific dates offered in the material, which eventually evolves into a multiple thread discussion over 2011 as the harvest date.

This, in fact, is the source of the idea that there could have been something interfering with the material that might be further connected to confusion in the query, an interfering entity, or both.

This idea was then batted around among the various threads, and for the most time being batted down. There appears to me to be great concern that the material will somehow become "invalidated" by the propositions offered in these threads. Others do not see it as such.

Might I also note that I have found unity100's assessments of the material to not only be very precise, but also well-studied. I have also found his replies, though sometimes irritating, to be the most effective catalyst which has propelled me to seek deeper into the information for which I am grateful.

And I have yet to re-read Book 4.

---

[BEGIN DIRECT REPLY TO unity100]

With all due respect, I have now point blank pointed out how- in the very two quotes in question- you made serious errors specifically with respect to numbers in the material.

First, you incorrectly corrected me on the date for the Ra contact to be 1333 BC, at the time of Ahkenaten, precisely as I stated in my posts, which caused me to deeply doubt myself and question the ideas I had been formulating at the time. The correct date is 3300 years ago, meaning 1300 BC.

Secondly, you directly misstated that Ra said harvest was in 2011, when Ra did not. Don said harvest was in 2011. Whether or not harvest was indeed in 2011, relative to that nexus, is beside the point.

The point is for you to acknowledge this, and also notice your above error, and also notice how they are connected. The opportunity is for you to question why.

My best regards.

---

Questioner: Can you tell me why you say that the Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative since there seems to be much negativity here now?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your time/space present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

RELISTENED PROJECT below:

Questioner: Can you tell me why Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

that is an enlightening revelation.


:exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

[unity100]

That settles it, in my mind. It proves that when Ra said "the harvest is now" they meant an ongoing process, and were referring to the harvesting of individual souls.

And.....50.5 The incarnation was understood to be one which would take place at harvest.
Which do you prefer? At, during, is now, causing a somewhat difficult harvest...take your pick.

THIS was the hypocrisy and double standards i was talking about.

in this very thread, you argued for pages that becasue don asked about specific things/events, the contact was compromised because of this or that. you insisted incessantly on that, trying to invalidate the 2011 date about the harvest event. not to mention you have dubbed harvest a specific, transitory event to justify your claim.

then here you are, trying to reach a conclusion by using the very same kind of quotes you think that support your claim ?

with your claim in this thread, the very quotes you are trying to use as support for your claim (even if none apply) are negatively influenced specific material.

in short, another streak of hypocrisy and double standards -> quotes are negatively influenced when they oppose your view, and others of the same qualification are suddenly reliable because they support your perspective. even the concept of harvest, which was totally abstracted and metaphorized into a 'present moment' bliss and dubbed transitory suddenly became non-transitory when its needed.

double standards. no less. the problem here and the discussion is not harvest or its date. its this.

[Monica]

it doesnt matter whether entity is just 1 years old, or in his/her mother's womb. it is still a fully developed spirit in time/space, where harvest takes place.

all that is needed for harvest is to be in the planetary influence of the planet.

Please re-read my post. Ra is referring to Wanderers who are increasing the harvest, and says that they choose to incarnate during harvest. There is no way Ra could be referring to babies. That would be absurd. Wanderers increasing the harvest, during the harvest. It's clear that the harvest is a span of time, to allow those Wanderers to incarnate and do their work.

no 'individual' vs 'planetary harvest' was ever mentioned. when queried about positive/negative harvest, Ra answered 'there is one harvest'. not two or three or planetary or individual.

OK, I concede that point, and was just about to edit my post, but you beat me to it. Upon re-reading the quote, you're right: it is clearly referring to individual harvest. However, the other quote about Wanderers also was clearly referring to individual harvest, over a span of time. Thus, there are only 2 possibilities, as I see it, that could reconcile these 2 points:

1. 2011 is simply a date that's included in the span of time designated as Harvest. Ie., if harvest of individuals may span, say, 3 or 4 decades, 2011 might just be 1 year included in that span, and isn't anything special. I don't think so; this could be literally true, but is rather absurd.

or

2. (more likely, in my opinion) Is that Ra considers a few decades, in the same way that we consider a minute or a second. Thus, Ra's choice of the word now refers to a span of time. It's instantaneous to Ra, but to us, it's not. What, then, is special about 2011-2012? It must be a cut-off point of some sort. Not imminent death for all Wanderers! Q'uo's answer on this seems to make the most sense to me. If this Q'uote is to be trusted, it must be realized that Q'uo is talking to Wanderers! Talking about staying here on the Earth, to clean up the mess. But there IS a demarcation. 2011 as an exact date IS given.

It's the end of the time lateral. It's the date when Earth will be, officially and completely, 4D.

The time is coming and indeed is nigh at hand when something you might call a tipping point is imminent. And indeed it stands before you at this time. What is that tipping point? That tipping point is a straw vote, shall we say, an informal poll, if you will, of the tribes of humankind, to see if the majority of entities want to separate themselves forever from any path except violence or if they want to progress into fourth density and beyond.

There are entities from fifth density on the service-to-self path that are attempting a coup, shall we say, of this train of humankind running along this parallel time track. They would like it not to rejoin the main track. The guardians of this planet and those light givers within your planetary forces, both seen and unseen, have all moved heaven and Earth, literally, to create a slowing of the forces of time so that every possible instant may be given to the development of planet Earth’s human population to the point where the vote of the straw poll is for service to others and not for service to self; for radiance, peace and harmony rather than contraction, war and hostility as a background to the everyday life.

We are very hopeful. If that last moment were this very day, the straw poll indicates that your planet will rejoin the typical, normal progression of space/time. What the negative entities would like to do is to have that tipping point go the other way and to have people say, “No, no, it’s important to war because we want to gain resources, because we want to defend our family,” and because of the whole laundry list of those things that the great apes are instinctually bound to consider priorities.

At that level, there is almost no time/space or space/time wherein a third-density entity may make that primal choice for service to others on third-density planet Earth. Your density has now become fourth density. It has not waited until this year or even several years before this but has been vibrating in fourth density to the exclusion of creating more third-density light.

Therefore, those third-density entities who now walk the planet are more and more sensitive because they do not have the support of third-density light which hides most of the truth. Rather they have fourth-density light interpenetrating their third-density understanding of their world, creating an environment where it seems and indeed is happening that wave after wave of truth and light and understanding is washing over this planet.

The fourth density is the density of love. But it is also called the density of understanding. What is happening to entities now is that that which is in their thoughts and in their unexamined assumptions is being mirrored out to them in everyday life for them to see clearly. They no longer have so much of a cushion of easy untruth because if they are awakening spiritually there are forces within them that have determined and intended to challenge those unspoken assumptions which are not serving the greater good.

So, insofar as you as a third-density entity are unawakened, you will simply find life getting harder. It seems that more extremes are taking place. You are not feeling as well. You lose more jobs. Whatever it is that you are working on [in] this life, there become problems with it that seem harder than they used to be. This is because you are not protected from your truth as you once were.

Now, entities who are awakened are experiencing the identical situation, are experiencing an increase in suffering and are experiencing more difficult times. However, what they have on their side is that they have set their intention to serve others and to know the truth in order to serve others. This creates a fourth-density support system that is powerful indeed and can take the place of the previous comforts of the unawakened.

However, when you become awakened and set your intention to be an ethical being that is worthy of fourth density, you also ask of yourself that you begin to live the life that reflects those fourth-density values that are implicit and explicit when you think about service to others.

The principles involved in service to others are implicit in all that is done in that when you meet the moment, you are meeting it as one who serves. That is a general standpoint and that basic viewpoint brings to you a wider point of view which is based upon the guidance that you are receiving which is activated by your desire to serve. When you ask for the truth, the truth is there before you. Ask and you truly shall receive.

And then you are responsible for your actions in a way which was inconceivable when you did not know and had no knowledge of how the spiritual forces of evolution work. That of which you are ignorant, you cannot be held responsible. When you become aware of the spiritual principles involved in natural evolution, then you become also responsible for acting upon that knowledge.

This is not an easy time because of these factors. As the song before this meditation says, entities may often be standing knee-deep in the river of love and light and dying of thirst [2] because they do not know how to scoop that life-giving liquid up into their bodies, their minds, and their spirits. How do you crack up an earthly life and let the sun shine in?

Fortunately, my friends, it is not a matter of cracking open your life to let the sun shine in. It is a matter of cracking open your personality to become aware of the sun that is already shining, in an infinite supply, into your heart, your mind, and your consciousness, into every fiber and cell of your being, both physically and non-physically.

To sum up this third level, we would say that to the best of our knowledge—which is not without error but is only opinion—the timetable of your planet is a set one. The planet itself, minus the time lateral, will completely shift into fourth density at the winter solstice of 2011.

There is an area around this time that is not clock time because the change is not in space/time but in time/space. That penumbra, shall we say, of the time of shift began approximately in 1998.

As we give this instrument dates, be aware that we are not particularly good with numbers. There was in the planetary energy system an adjustment made at one point that would simply remove the planetary population through natural means because it was failing to come to harvest. This pole shift was averted in 1998 by many groups such as this one [that] were aware that consciousness needed to be lightened and [that] spent a good deal of time and energy as light bringers and those who spoke about these energies, these times, and the spiritual principles involved in evolution.

This work has enabled this planet to have the added physical space/time for those entities within incarnation at this time to come to harvest on their own and also in order to give entities who graduated early the opportunity to come back into this planetary environment you call Earth and help accelerate the shift in consciousness. They, more or less, shall we say, have stacked the deck, making the tipping point ever closer towards rejoining the main line of space/time.

We confidently believe that your planet will rejoin that natural movement and progression of your planet into fourth-density space/time.

(Side one of tape ends.)

(Carla channeling)

We do not believe that the entities who attempted this coup will be able to convince the majority of entities upon planet Earth that a fear-based and violence-ridden solution is the correct solution to the ethical dilemmas of this time.

If entities convinced themselves that the forces of war are the correct forces in which to invest, your planet would be lost and would become a feeding ground for fifth-density entities who feed off of fear and suffering. This would be a slavery which all the slaves agreed was needed.

We believe that your people will throw off the yoke of slavery to violence and begin to sustain responsible efforts to become truly free, to evolve, and progress. It is, as always, the choice of those of planet Earth and none other may vote in this particular referendum.

So, it is in your hands. There are waves of energy coming at this planet that you so lovingly enjoy each and every day, every month, quarterly, yearly, and at times which are irregular but based upon time/space events rather than space/time events. In an irregular manner, however, they also offer unique and sometimes highly discomfiting waves of energy.

These are energies of the shining, glorious, honest truth. Embrace them insofar as you can. See how you might cooperate with these energies. If they bring things up in your life that you have not wanted to face, give yourself a smile, because you need it, and then sit down to do your work, my friends.

Remember who you are and why you came here. Remember what it is that you think you want to do in order to serve. And then look that shadow side of yourself, that has been flung up against your eyes, straight in the eye, thanking it for the gift that it is, and realizing that it is not the truth of you but it is a portion of the truth of you that you have not examined and therefore that you have not brought into the light and the love of your heart.

Do not allow yourself the easy way of projecting that concern onto other people or a situation that is beyond you. Bring it into your own life. Bring it into your own heart. And take responsibility for dealing with that energy that disturbs you.

You are fully capable of doing this, my friends. You have every faculty available to you: your intellect, your intuition, your support system, however you see that to be, and your choices as you move through life. You could say indeed that 2007 was the year of shift and you could be right. You could have also been right in 1962 when this instrument first became aware of a channeled group that predicted Armageddon and the need to get to safe places, and every year since then.

At every point that is now, there is a branching off into an infinite number of possibilities. The world you make is the world you choose at each of those moments of now. You have accumulated a good many of them in your lifetime but they are as nothing compared to the choices that you make once you become aware that choice is a very blessed and central way of embracing your truth, your progression, and your acceleration of your evolution, spiritually speaking.

This is one of my favorite Q'uo channelings. I find it quite profound, and it reconciles all that we are discussing here in this thread.

Sessions in Focus > 2007.02.11 World Events, Failed STS Coup, Rejoining Time-Lateral

[unity100]

unity100 picked up that I had made an error with respect to the "true" and "false" yahweh, but himself gets the dates wrong in his correction:

that wouldnt be relevant. 'yahweh lurking around' would be inappropriate for the time of Ra contact, since you are apparently referring to the orion entity which usurped yahweh's identity after 1600 BC. Ra contact, in the latest, is 2300 BC or so. before 1600 BC date, yahweh was the confederation entity, positive yahweh. there would be no concept of yahweh 'lurking' around that time.

#1 there is no misconception or date error in the above post.

3600 years ago calculates into 1600 BC. and it says 1600 Bc above. like in the correction. Ra contact evaluates into latest being in 2300 BC, if you look at the story of pyramid building.

Might I also note that I have found unity100's assessments of the material to not only be very precise, but also well-studied. I have also found his replies, though sometimes irritating, to be the most effective catalyst which has propelled me to seek deeper into the information for which I am grateful.

yet my irritating yet thought-provoking answers do not help anyone from making hasty conclusions. you still are saying that there was a date error in my post #1, which was something that remained from months ago.

With all due respect, I have now point blank pointed out how- in the very two quotes in question- you made serious errors specifically with respect to numbers in the material.

First, you incorrectly corrected me on the date for the Ra contact to be 1333 BC, at the time of Ahkenaten, precisely as I stated in my posts, which caused me to deeply doubt myself and question the ideas I had been formulating at the time. The correct date is 3300 years ago, meaning 1300 BC.

that is incorrect.

ra CONTACT is something that you can use for Ra's first manifestation among egypt entities, or, their pyramid manifestation, which apparently ended circa 2300 bc or so, after a few thousand years. after this point, there is no 'contact' in the sense of a contact being made.

akhenaton receiving various teachings or inspiration through various means does not classify as contacts like the above. its no different than a random prophet in middle east receiving stuff. if, you would like to dub this as CONTACT, then you can count any entity which received any kind of thought inspiration throughout history as a 'contact'. however apparently this is not being seen as such by the guardians or council of nine.

Secondly, you directly misstated that Ra said harvest was in 2011, when Ra did not. Don said harvest was in 2011. Whether or not harvest was indeed in 2011, relative to that nexus, is beside the point.

The point is for you to acknowledge this, and also notice your above error, and also notice how they are connected. The opportunity is for you to question why.

i cant correct any error i have not made. as for 2011 date, ra's answer evaluates to 2011. 'this is an approximation' -> what is an approximation ? how many approximations did don make in that statement ? one. the other is asking whether it was a period of time, querying a total opposite concept. there was not even a period of time mentioned so that one could answer 'this is an approximation'.

you cannot answer 'this is an appropriate nexus' to the question that is 'or will it be spread out'. there is no approximation in that.

---

Please re-read my post. Ra is referring to Wanderers who are increasing the harvest, and says that they choose to incarnate during harvest. There is no way Ra could be referring to babies. That would be absurd. Wanderers increasing the harvest, during the harvest. It's clear that the harvest is a span of time, to allow those Wanderers to incarnate and do their work.

if you keep an incarnation in a period that will chance up with the harvest date, you are keeping an incarnation DURING harvest, naturally. it doesnt matter whether the harvest fits in a second, or half a year.

OK, I concede that point, and was just about to edit my post, but you beat me to it. Upon re-reading the quote, you're right: it is clearly referring to individual harvest. However, the other quote about Wanderers also was clearly referring to individual harvest, over a span of time. Thus, there are only 2 possibilities, as I see it, that could reconcile these 2 points:

1. 2011 is simply a date that's included in the span of time designated as Harvest. Ie., if harvest of individuals may span, say, 3 or 4 decades, 2011 might just be 1 year included in that span, and isn't anything special. I don't think so; this could be literally true, but is rather absurd.

or

2. (more likely, in my opinion) Is that Ra considers a few decades, in the same way that we consider a minute or a second. Thus, Ra's choice of the word now refers to a span of time. It's instantaneous to Ra, but to us, it's not. What, then, is special about 2011-2012? It must be a cut-off point of some sort. Not imminent death for all Wanderers! Q'uo's answer on this seems to make the most sense to me. If this Q'uote is to be trusted, it must be realized that Q'uo is talking to Wanderers! Talking about staying here on the Earth, to clean up the mess. But there IS a demarcation. 2011 as an exact date IS given.

1 - harvest of individuals in the sense you are referring to is possible at any given time in a 3d cycle. any entity contacting infinite intelligence qualifies for harvest. this seems why all the pyramid efforts were undertaken, all directed at accomplishing some kind of infinite intelligence contact for students as a primary objective in regard to teaching, in addition to various other aims like healing bodies and balancing the planet.

if, the aim is for that, wanderer can incarnate at any given time. its not needed that there be a harvest cycle end.

2 - all date and time given in the material were given in our time units and by our own time estimates and understanding. nothing else. whenever anything that involved Ra's own perception of time was up or something else was up, it was explicitly mentioned. and in all cases it was either said that estimation was meaningless, like the exact locations of the harvested entities from this planet like rasputin.

again, all date and time given in the material were given in our time units and by our own time estimates and understanding.

[Tenet Nosce]

saddest point of all this story has been someone attempting to claim that Ra material was compromised based on on-demand and on the spot subjective non-measurements (questioner's purity at that given point in time instantly measured - really ? despite being irrelevant to boot), just for ONE quote (thankfully it has been expanded to two quotes when objected about the selectiveness), not being aware that the proposition would invalidate everything after that quote, and then being rather hasty in trying to fix it up when faced with the prospect, in a makeshift manner - this time by totally invalidating common english sentences.

I earlier forwarded an idea that the "compromised" portions of the material are simply the direct result of distorted queries and improper syntax. Which, incidentally, does not require speculation about any manner of outside interference with the material... negative entities, solar flares, and the like.

All it supposes is that a confused query yields a confused answer. Yet even this simple proposition seems beyond your willingness to accept. You seem to think that this would somehow invalidate the material.

my problem is that - if you have a standard, you apply it everywhere. you dont selectively skip it when things get uncomfortable, for any reason.

Honestly, I am not sure to what degree you are observing me to be hypocritical here, or that it really matters. However- you have continued to fail to apply your own standard to the anomalous quote:

The harvest is now.

As I stated before, you are performing the same sort of mental maneuver that you are being critical of in others. You take the word "now" and then distort it outside of its normal meaning of "in the moment or immanently" and somehow manage to twist the word "now" into meaning "30 years from now". This is the same sort of denying plain English language that you are railing against.

For my part, I am willing to accept that "The harvest is now" is just an outlier- an error. Something Ra did not go back and fix, for whatever reason. That the material could possibly suffer from any error of any kind appears to kick you in to vehemence, which I do not understand.

If the material is what it is, then it can stand up to questioning. I say the very same thing about people who refuse to entertain any questioning of their religious beliefs. If what you believe is true, then it can stand on its own two feet and is not in need of defense of criticism.

---

ra CONTACT is something that you can use for Ra's first manifestation among egypt entities, or, their pyramid manifestation, which apparently ended circa 2300 bc or so, after a few thousand years. after this point, there is no 'contact' in the sense of a contact being made.

akhenaton receiving various teachings or inspiration through various means does not classify as contacts like the above. its no different than a random prophet in middle east receiving stuff. if, you would like to dub this as CONTACT, then you can count any entity which received any kind of thought inspiration throughout history as a 'contact'. however apparently this is not being seen as such by the guardians or council of nine.

Pardon my idiocy, but when Ra says:

The recalculation indicates numbers 3,600 for Orion entry, 3,300 for Confederation entry.

That means there was a Confederation entry 3,300 years ago, in 1300 BC. Right?

[Raman]

Regarding 'harvest is now'. I must remind the participants that the context used is about why not to try to increase longevity. This is the context. Compared to trying to increase longevity by 100 years is absurd since 'harvest is occurring soon' "now.."

Then see this as well. A more proper context:

6.19 Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless.

[native]

saddest point of all this story has been someone attempting to claim
that Ra material was compromised based on on-demand and on the spot
subjective non-measurements

Nope. This was based on errors themselves, especially Ra stumbling their words after sufficient detuning. If you haven't noticed..after reflecting on the channeling process itself, I have evolved my opinion to agree that Ra could not have been manipulated themselves, but perhaps lacked clarity. It seems that within the allegories, Ra was referring to negative influence that was being placed on Don. Or not..but it gets you to think, and that's the point.

Or should I not grow and evolve, so you don't have to add another chalk mark to the board where you're keeping tabs on how my opinion changes?