Harvest: Do The Math

[unity100]

However, Venus had same veil characteristics and the 3d evolution was harmonious. So the veil situation appears to be not so clear here.

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

It is true that their social complex was composed of 'Ra people' as opposed to this planet's diverse composition, however, Maldek and Mars as far as I know were also fairly homogeneous, at least there is nothing in The Ra Material to suggest otherwise.

we dont know about that.

So the homogeneity of the population does not seem a big factor neither...although the conditions on Maldek and Mars that led to what occurred in both of those planets are different, with much more negativity or service to self in Maldek.

maldek was told to be a potential for mixed harvest. not negative.

But it seems there was no quarantine in Maldek and or Mars.

no such info was given. instead, about this planet's veil, what was told was that 'the light quarantine that would be in place was made heavier' after yahweh's genetic modification flop. this means, there was going to be a quarantine on this planet, but it was made stronger. this implies all 3d planets get quarantined, light, or heavy.

So here was earth a third density planet just begun its fresh first cycle and it was seeded with 3d life forms not originally from the planet.

that is not correct. the body used on this planet was evolved here from 2d forms. this was repeatedly mentioned. genetic material was brought with bodies moved here from mars, but these bodies were told to be incapable of reproducing. yet, yahweh still had done a genetic intervention at the start of this planet's 3d, from what we are told. (how did that happen with bodies unable to reproduce beats me - maybe they modified earth evolved bodies here). these modified bodies mixed with others.

also the native souls graduated in this planet was numbered around 2 billion i believe, in the material.

Maldekians resolved the issue by karmic restitution, Martians?----it seems the Social Memory Complex that transplanted them did not respect(?) their free will.

that complex was yahweh. and what are you basing your conclusion of non-respecting of free will on ?

So is/are the situation/s that you are portraying just referring to earth's?

which situations ?

Would have been a better idea to have transferred Martians to another planet in a 3d environment that does not allow opposable thumbs, etc?

probably.

It was a GUARDIAN who did this. A positive entity, by the way.

yahweh.

It seems to me that the 3d unharvestables would have more opportunity to graduate in a planet where 3d entities are plants, water based or amphibians without possibility of developing nuclear weapons or contamination that could destroy a biosphere.

totally dependent on deep biases of the entity. every soul is fit in the appropriate environment.

[βαθμιαίος]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

[Raman]

It is true that their social complex was composed of 'Ra people' as opposed to this planet's diverse composition, however, Maldek and Mars as far as I know were also fairly homogeneous, at least there is nothing in The Ra Material to suggest otherwise.

we dont know about that.

It is reasonable, in fact that is a huge difference factor occurring in earth.

So the homogeneity of the population does not seem a big factor neither...although the conditions on Maldek and Mars that led to what occurred in both of those planets are different, with much more negativity or service to self in Maldek.

maldek was told to be a potential for mixed harvest. not negative.

Blowing up a planet is more negative that accidental damaging of the biosphere. Besides I did not say harvest was negative but situation/entities more negative at that point in time, Would same negativity occurred in Mars? We don't know that.

But it seems there was no quarantine in Maldek and or Mars.

no such info was given. instead, about this planet's veil, what was told was that 'the light quarantine that would be in place was made heavier' after yahweh's genetic modification flop. this means, there was going to be a quarantine on this planet, but it was made stronger. this implies all 3d planets get quarantined, light, or heavy.

Even if every 3d planet gets a quarantine what happened to earth was a stronger one. could this have anything to do with the stronger veil? We don't know that

So here was earth a third density planet just begun its fresh first cycle and it was seeded with 3d life forms not originally from the planet.

that is not correct. the body used on this planet was evolved here from 2d forms. this was repeatedly mentioned. genetic material was brought with bodies moved here from mars, but these bodies were told to be incapable of reproducing. yet, yahweh still had done a genetic intervention at the start of this planet's 3d, from what we are told. (how did that happen with bodies unable to reproduce beats me - maybe they modified earth evolved bodies here). these modified bodies mixed with others.

also the native souls graduated in this planet was numbered around 2 billion i believe, in the material.

What's not correct? There were no 3d entities in earth before that happened.

Maldekians resolved the issue by karmic restitution, Martians?----it seems the Social Memory Complex that transplanted them did not respect(?) their free will.

[quote
that complex was yahweh. and what are you basing your conclusion of non-respecting of free will on ?

Complex was yahweh yes you have repeated that a few times..the same yahweh that later was the one wth no name so no yahweh anymore. The confederation implemented the quarantine because of that.

9.8 Questioner: The guardians were obviously acting within an understanding of the Law of One in doing this. Can you explain the application of the Law of One in this process?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One was named by these guardians as the bringing of the wisdom of the guardians in contact with the entities from the Red Planet, thus melding the social memory complex of the guardian race and the Red Planet race. It, however, took an increasing amount of distortion into the application of the Law of One from the viewpoint of other guardians and it is from this beginning action that the quarantine of this planet was instituted, for it was felt that the free will of those of the Red Planet had been abridged.

It was a GUARDIAN who did this. A positive entity, by the way.

yahweh.

oh yeah, the one with no name...

It seems to me that the 3d unharvestables would have more opportunity to graduate in a planet where 3d entities are plants, water based or amphibians without possibility of developing nuclear weapons or contamination that could destroy a biosphere.

totally dependent on deep biases of the entity. every soul is fit in the appropriate environment.

Denebians came in group, Martians too, Maldekians too, Probably at different nexi in development/circumstances opportunities arise to do that.

[zenmaster]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

I don't remember reading that either. Even the indigo-ray adept toils under the veil in the entire extant creation.

[Raman]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

I don't remember reading that either. Even the indigo-ray adept toils under the veil in the entire extant creation.

Well, zenmaster made a joke and made me laugh...what's wrong?

[3DMonkey]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

I don't remember reading that either. Even the indigo-ray adept toils under the veil in the entire extant creation.

Well, zenmaster made a joke and made me laugh...what's wrong?

Hahahaha. What's wrong? is that you've missed out on all the humorous posts from zenmaster's past.

(tip: read every post as a joke first, serious second )

[native]

I remember reading that the veil had less of an influence on Venus because the planet is closer to the sun, much like systems closer to the center of the galaxy create a stronger will to seek. Something like that.

[Raman]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

I don't remember reading that either. Even the indigo-ray adept toils under the veil in the entire extant creation.

Well, zenmaster made a joke and made me laugh...what's wrong?

Hahahaha. What's wrong? is that you've missed out on all the humorous posts from zenmaster's past.

(tip: read every post as a joke first, serious second )

Ok, if you want to do that fine. Too much unnecessary work for me. Too unfair for others. Actually, I am starting to find very irritating/tiring 'leadership roles', one above others and such.

Remember what Ra wanted to append: "a humble messenger".

I understand that the LLO appears to be the only way to progress after 3d or even 3d and successive densities. So this material is crucial. Even this is what Ra has to do in order to be harvestable to 7d: to teach, promote the material. Possibly the only way to leave this octave, and I respect the accuracy some try to integrate in this forum. Most of the time we risk much subjectivity unless we include others in the dance.

---

I remember reading that the veil had less of an influence on Venus because the planet is closer to the sun, much like systems closer to the center of the galaxy create a stronger will to seek. Something like that.

Could you post the Q/A if you find it?

[native]

29.32, 30.13, 30.14, 81.30, 81.31 address what I was saying in regards to position, but I didn't remember correctly. I'm having trouble finding the statement about the veil, so maybe that's wrong also.

"The particular Logos of your major galaxy has used a large portion of Its coalesced material to reflect the being-ness of the Creator. In this way there is much of your galactic system which does not have the progression of which you speak but dwells spiritually as a portion of the Logos. Of those entities upon which consciousness dwells there is, as you surmise, a variety of time/space periods during which the higher densities of experience are attained by consciousness."

[unity100]

we were told that in venus the veil was lighter.

I don't remember that, and it surprises me because Ra has the same archetypical mind as we do. Can you provide a reference?

I don't remember reading that either. Even the indigo-ray adept toils under the veil in the entire extant creation.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#12

aside from what icaro mentioned being an important factor (it is apparent that veils can not be maintained closer to strong logoi), the above piece of information outright lays out the differences in between venus, and mars/maldek/earth experiences :

opposable thumb is something that causes the entity to embark on manipulating its environment, turning attention to outside environment than its own subconscious.

this causes an intensification of the veil by decreasing the input the conscious mind gets from unconscious. moreover, due to conscious mind staying more and more conscious for manipulation of the environment through opposable thumb, the weight of subconscious in the overall balance of the entity decreases.

veil is something that stands in between conscious and subconscious. anything that makes it harder for them to communicate with each other, intensifies the veil.

now, the opposable thumb was also there in Ra's experience probably. however, it appears that the usage of technology to manipulate environment was not as high as the others in their experience. this is evident from the lack of technological information given regarding their experience. actually they state that in a few points, one being about the money - 'not being able to invent money'. in another point, they state theirs as a civilization more bent on studies of archetypes, subconscious etc through sexuality. this identifies the nature of their civilization - one that was not technological as the ones followed. moreover, in all instances that refer to mars maldek or this planet,(atlantis especially) referrals to the technological advancedness of the civilization is made. and in the case of lack of that kind of advancement, it is also mentioned. (in the case of mu).

all these amount to the fact that Ra civilization was less immersed in technology than the civilizations followed. this also means, their veil was much lighter than us. this is also reinforced by the fact that they were working on occult concepts through sexuality - all of which are actually subconscious weighted properties of mind. so, they were leaning on the subconscious side of mind, while we are leaning on conscious.

former reduces effects of the veil, latter increases.

the modifications yahweh made to this planet's population at the start, boosting thinking capability probably also had much more effect than technology tightening the veil for all other technological civilizations - other civilizations apparently used various energy based devices, maybe zero energy devices or light energy based devices (from what we understand from atlantis's sinking explanations). these technologies are less intricate and complex than the mechanical/electronical technology we have at this moment. (actually the new fields we are opening in regard to using light energy puts out the disparage in complexity in between these different technological approaches). our technology probably surpasses others in complexity of their creation, implementation and maintenance, and a good pointer of this is the amount of effort that must be spent getting educated for living in this society, then in a field, then expertise in that field - entire lifespan of an entity living in this sociey is totally occupied by the effort. the ones who dont do it, cant get access to resources to comfortably continue their life and get busy with fight for survival. so, veil is tightened in both ends.

[/quote]

[Raman]

Very interesting about Logoi proximity and veil. Seems very reasonable.

I always wondered about Ra's polarization via sexuality. Both paths (+) (-) would have had to be present for polarization to occur.

[zenmaster]

Interesting thought process, and I've come to many of the same conclusions, but not sure we can conclude that the veil was lighter on Venus. I think it's reasonable to say that the permeability of the unconscious is strongly related to the will and desire of focus as well as the inherent physical constraints (ape-form, brain). In third density, this development (of unconscious 'connectivity') could be fostered by a common need to survive in a certain way - for example methods which organized society in a more harmonious manner. As we move up the chakras, for example, certain ethical principles could become more evident without a lighter veil, if they were understood and taught in a receptive environment. Also better methods of parenting, educating, idea of community, better use of free time, more effective spirituality, etc.

[unity100]

Interesting thought process, and I've come to many of the same conclusions, but not sure we can conclude that the veil was lighter on Venus. I think it's reasonable to say that the permeability of the unconscious is strongly related to the will and desire of focus as well as the inherent physical constraints (ape-form, brain). In third density, this development (of unconscious 'connectivity') could be fostered by a common need to survive in a certain way - for example methods which organized society in a more harmonious manner. As we move up the chakras, for example, certain ethical principles could become more evident without a lighter veil, if they were understood and taught in a receptive environment. Also better methods of parenting, educating, idea of community, better use of free time, more effective spirituality, etc.

it is not that complex. the will would not precede the mechanics. because you are taking it as complex, you are missing the evident conclusion :

contacting the subconscious is proportional to the conscious mind not being busy. this is evident with the need to meditate - meditation is an act that attempts to free the mind from being busy with external happenings and objects.

and if you look at the societal situation in which entities are totally invested in their own doings, things outside, manipulation of outside, and what that results in, the proof stands in front of you. leaving aside people being too busy to contact their subconscious, the busyness and eventual separation from their own subconscious - which provides motives and power for doings of the entity - becomes so strong that it leads to imbalance of entities and various disorders, needing treatment. the people are not even able to pay proper attention into what's going on in their own families in their own home.

another reinforcing factor is the linguistic capability modifications yahweh made. these modifications boosted speech capability, and as a results shifted the capability of entities to more verbal forms of expression/communication than telepathic.

when the speech capability doesnt allow too intricate a language, you stand to pay more attention to sentiment, feeling, atmosphere in which something is said.

a good language is japanese language. it is not as intricate as the other languages, and words mean many different meanings depending on context and the sentiment. therefore, it becomes important to precisely discern the situation/concept during communication. this immediately reflects on their art too, their art forms tend to be more visual, conveying situations/emotions by depicting them than telling them in writing. this even reflects in the cultural reality that are anime, manga or other visual expression forms - they go far beyond the age groups and demographic their near-equivalents are meant to be for in western world. these even reflect in concerns that are shaped into sayings, like (roughly translated) 'my feelings will go out to him/her/them'. (not the equivalent of 'my heart goes out to' or something, it involves expression/communication of feelings precisely to other party).

so, its rather simple. the more the entities are involved in external objects and concepts, manipulating them, the heavier the veil will become.

the solution is to reduce complexity, and decrease need for entities to manipulate external environment, leaving them time to be with their own thoughts and feelings.

[βαθμιαίος]

Your understanding of the differences on Earth and Venus seems both subtle and profound. However, your understanding of the veil is different than mine. I understand it to be architectural and hence identical throughout the creation of our sub-Logos, and I suspect that it's not all that different throughout the creation of our Logos.

What you take to be differences in the veil I understand to be different free will responses to third density.

[Raman]

Your understanding of the differences on Earth and Venus seems both subtle and profound. However, your understanding of the veil is different than mine. I understand it to be architectural and hence identical throughout the creation of our sub-Logos, and I suspect that it's not all that different throughout the creation of our Logos.

What you take to be differences in the veil I understand to be different free will responses to third density.

There was no veil in third density in the more interior aspects of the galaxy, the veil does appears after wards, far away for the Galactic Logos as development occurs. It we take in consideration a holographic nature of the Creation, we can extrapolate that to other sub-Logoi, however, this is reasonable but could not be so significant.

The act of Yahweh (name later taken/usurped by the Orion group) seems very significant, since these were the first 3d entities on earth at the begiunning of the cycle and what it initiated the quarantine (or stronger). The usurpation of the name is very significant since genetic manipulation as unity100 said, refers to speech.

Mentioning speech manipulation and Denebians, is there anything in the Ra material that could be hinting to another manipulation by another group in the for example Denebians case or once the martians were manipulated, this was the base for all others including Denebians, etc?

We are talking about a very short period of time in which things change rapidly due to manipulation of 2d entities.

[unity100]

Your understanding of the differences on Earth and Venus seems both subtle and profound. However, your understanding of the veil is different than mine. I understand it to be architectural and hence identical throughout the creation of our sub-Logos, and I suspect that it's not all that different throughout the creation of our Logos.

What you take to be differences in the veil I understand to be different free will responses to third density.

this is what im talking about when i say 'taking it complex'. you are taking them as separate machinery. but, thinking simply, what is the purpose of the veil ? to put a wall in between conscious and subconscious. so then, anything that amplifies that effect, will amplify the veil.

however, unfortunately, it seems this is not so much a function of 'free will' it seems. for, there isnt a choice in this - you need to fit in with the necessities of this civilization. if you dont, you cant survive, or survive properly. even back in 3000 BC, everyone had to use tools and whatnot and constantly push the envelope either to survive in nature, but more to defend themselves against others' aggression.

institutionalization of orange/yellow ray divisionism in the mechanics of property ownership/trade and eventual capitalist system brought the survival fight against others right into the home, as opposed to previously it being something happening in between nations, or at most tribes or villages.

you cant choose in such an environment. you have to survive. you have to fit in.

Mentioning speech manipulation and Denebians, is there anything in the Ra material that could be hinting to another manipulation by another group in the for example Denebians case or once the martians were manipulated, this was the base for all others including Denebians, etc?

no there wasnt.

[βαθμιαίος]

So do you think that we, now, don't have free will? It seems clear to me that we do, but it sounds like you think we don't.

[Bring4th_Austin]

So do you think that we, now, don't have free will? It seems clear to me that we do, but it sounds like you think we don't.

I would walk a similar line as Unity in saying that the free will in this Logos is somewhat compromised. We can take an extreme example of this in the act of torture. Someone who is restrained, kept alive, and tortured has no choice in the matter and obviously suffers greatly. The only free will they have is how they feel about the situation, but nothing within their free will allows them to escape the situation. On top of that, how much free will does that person have to genuinely feel about a situation like that when our psychology would prevent us from being happy with it?

Basically, what it seems like to me, is the free will which was available to us was too easily turned against us. STS individuals can use their own free will to limit the free will of others. Without venturing into a victimization standpoint, I don't find this balanced.

I also feel like Unity's point is valid. In an environment as harsh as our's, survival comes before choice. When making a preferred choice could indirectly lead to the cessation of the incarnation, I don't feel like that is balanced either.

[Confused]

I would walk a similar line as Unity in saying that the free will in this Logos is somewhat compromised. We can take an extreme example of this in the act of torture. Someone who is restrained, kept alive, and tortured has no choice in the matter and obviously suffers greatly. The only free will they have is how they feel about the situation, but nothing within their free will allows them to escape the situation. On top of that, how much free will does that person have to genuinely feel about a situation like that when our psychology would prevent us from being happy with it?

Basically, what it seems like to me, is the free will which was available to us was too easily turned against us. STS individuals can use their own free will to limit the free will of others. Without venturing into a victimization standpoint, I don't find this balanced.

I also feel like Unity's point is valid. In an environment as harsh as our's, survival comes before choice. When making a preferred choice could indirectly lead to the cessation of the incarnation, I don't feel like that is balanced either.

Good points, a! You and unity100 have brought out some very nuanced points well. They are difficult to accept; but if one views this in a disinterested mode, it does appear there is strong backing for this from the LOO -

71.14 Questioner: You have made the statement that pure negativity acts as a gravity well pulling all into it. I was wondering first if pure positivity has precisely the same effect? Could you answer that please?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Good points, a! You and unity100 have brought out some very nuanced points well. They are difficult to accept; but if one views this in a disinterested mode, it does appear there is strong backing for this from the LOO -

71.14 Questioner: You have made the statement that pure negativity acts as a gravity well pulling all into it. I was wondering first if pure positivity has precisely the same effect? Could you answer that please?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

I'm trying to wrap my head around that bolded section. Even if someone were not of "positive purity," and did not wish for the STS entity to have their free will, the STS entity could enforce their own free will upon the other entity.

Even removing STS from the equation completely leaves me with some gaps. Let's take the bull example Don used in the material:

42.2 Questioner: I will attempt to make an analogy. If an animal, shall I say, a bull, in a pen attacks you because you have wandered into his pen, you get out of his way rapidly but you do not blame him. You do not have much of an emotional response other than the response that he might damage you. However, if you encounter another self in his territory and he attacks you, your response may be more of an emotional nature creating physical bodily responses. Am I correct in assuming that when your response to the animal and to the other-self is that of seeing both as Creator and loving both and understanding their action in attacking you is the action of their free will then you have balanced yourself correctly in this area? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, the balanced entity will see in the seeming attack of an other-self the causes of this action which are, in most cases, of a more complex nature than the cause of the attack of the second-density bull as was your example. Thus this balanced entity would be open to many more opportunities for service to a third-density other-self.

As stated, the balanced entity would not react in any way except to protect the free will of the other first, and their own body complex second. Let's say there is no escape, and the only options are to harm the other entity or to let it harm you (completely possible situation). Why is a choice like this necessary? The preferred choice, allowing the other-self to do as it pleases, would end in the cessation of incarnation. Can we really call it freewill when the preferred choice kills us? In my opinion, if we experienced true freewill, death would not be the only option for an entity wishing to preserve the freewill of an other-self.

[Confused]

Why is a choice like this necessary? The preferred choice, allowing the other-self to do as it pleases, would end in the cessation of incarnation. Can we really call it freewill when the preferred choice kills us?

a, I guess that is what the Galactic Logoi and the One Infinite Creator would like to learn from our experiences. The very questions you ask and wrestle with. You/we are doing the research and the homework, and when you/we become the expert(s), you/we will go and present this at the Board Meeting of the Galactic Logoi. I am saying that metaphorically, of course, but I meant it.

However, the mystery in this equation is TIME. If all is one time - then, is not the start and the end of the experiment, and all in between, known already! Is complete ignorance and full knowledge the same?

[Bring4th_Austin]

You/we are doing the research and the homework, and when you/we become the expert(s), you/we will go and present this at the Board Meeting of the Galactic Logoi. I am saying that metaphorically, of course, but I meant it.

That is going to be one long metaphorical PowerPoint presentation.

[zenmaster]

It is certainly the case that 'true will' or the being on one's path is a reduction of complexity to a point of one way. This is understood. But if you want to relate the incidental aspects, there is necessarily a complexity.

[Confused]

That is going to be one long metaphorical PowerPoint presentation.

Ha ha ha! yes. We will go in our best suits.

People usually say that earth is a school. If this is indeed a school, then the course we are studying for might very well be MGA (Master of Galactic Administration). Oooppsss.....some might not like the word - 'master', as it may sound a bit like STS.

However, at the galactic level, it is OK, I guess At that level, all is after all unified.

---

It is certainly the case that 'true will' or the being on one's path is a reduction of complexity to a point of one way. This is understood. But if you want to relate the incidental aspects, there is necessarily a complexity.

Oh boy! you do indeed clearly befit the title of zenmaster, z.

You are definitely a master of Koanic type linguistic expressions

[3DMonkey]

The only free will they have is how they feel about the situation,

IMO, this is the one and only correct summation of what "free will" is. I think to go beyond that is folly.

---

As stated, the balanced entity would not react in any way except to protect the free will of the other first, and their own body complex second. Let's say there is no escape, and the only options are to harm the other entity or to let it harm you (completely possible situation). Why is a choice like this necessary? The preferred choice, allowing the other-self to do as it pleases, would end in the cessation of incarnation. Can we really call it freewill when the preferred choice kills us? In my opinion, if we experienced true freewill, death would not be the only option for an entity wishing to preserve the freewill of an other-self.

Free. Free to choose whatever mental reaction. That's it. .... IMO, take death out of the equation because we will die, and that is that.

[Raman]

It seems initial manipulation of the martians initiated institution of the quarantine or if quarantine is a fact for each 3d planet, it made this current quarantine much more different and strict, and allowed re-establishment of free will. That means that there was equal opportunity for negative or positive influences thorough the window effect. Seemingly, the orion influence was very successful mainly in the last few thousand years to present. Since the societal complex was not oriented positively it was just enough one successful entry to have great effect on yellow/orange ray patterns.

Overall, the harvest will be mixed. This means that planet will be 4d positive since the majority of mixed harvest produce this outcome with a majority non harvestables.

[Bring4th_Austin]

The only free will they have is how they feel about the situation,

IMO, this is the one and only correct summation of what "free will" is. I think to go beyond that is folly.

---

As stated, the balanced entity would not react in any way except to protect the free will of the other first, and their own body complex second. Let's say there is no escape, and the only options are to harm the other entity or to let it harm you (completely possible situation). Why is a choice like this necessary? The preferred choice, allowing the other-self to do as it pleases, would end in the cessation of incarnation. Can we really call it freewill when the preferred choice kills us? In my opinion, if we experienced true freewill, death would not be the only option for an entity wishing to preserve the freewill of an other-self.

Free. Free to choose whatever mental reaction. That's it. .... IMO, take death out of the equation because we will die, and that is that.

I disagree. Going back to the example of being tortured...what if the person being tortured wished to escape? What if they wished to not be tortured? Or wished to die to stop the suffering? Simply wished not to suffer? None of these things would happen. Their free will is not honored in any sense. Being free to think "hmm...being tortured isn't so bad" is definitely not my opinion of free will.

[3DMonkey]

The only free will they have is how they feel about the situation,

IMO, this is the one and only correct summation of what "free will" is. I think to go beyond that is folly.

---

As stated, the balanced entity would not react in any way except to protect the free will of the other first, and their own body complex second. Let's say there is no escape, and the only options are to harm the other entity or to let it harm you (completely possible situation). Why is a choice like this necessary? The preferred choice, allowing the other-self to do as it pleases, would end in the cessation of incarnation. Can we really call it freewill when the preferred choice kills us? In my opinion, if we experienced true freewill, death would not be the only option for an entity wishing to preserve the freewill of an other-self.

Free. Free to choose whatever mental reaction. That's it. .... IMO, take death out of the equation because we will die, and that is that.

I disagree. Going back to the example of being tortured...what if the person being tortured wished to escape? What if they wished to not be tortured? Or wished to die to stop the suffering? Simply wished not to suffer? None of these things would happen. Their free will is not honored in any sense. Being free to think "hmm...being tortured isn't so bad" is definitely not my opinion of free will.

That's what I'm saying. Free will is only of the mind. Nothing else.

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It might not be your opinion, but that's all it ever was, is, will be.

[Raman]

Funny that sometimes we say is just 'catalyst' and others is a free will issue or incarnational agreement and at another times we consider this to be one of the possibilities in a infinite subset of a density (by a factor of 7)..recall each octave has 7 densities each density 7 subdensities then 7 sub-sub densities and so on so every possibility is bound to occur.

I guess a negative attack will be a free will offense against an entity (again others will say 'oh is just catalyst'); Then one has to say that free will is also a density dependent fact (like the imposition of the quarantine was done to preserve free will against orions future uncontrolled inroads lets say). Even then if orions own a planet by force apparently free will appears shortly thereafter the invasion, since free will is one of the primal distortions of the LOO..I'm thinking the planetary population is manipulated into this so voluntarily abide the orions dictatorship (I am thinking akin --although not the same as forceful conquest) to the current money dictatorship we have here...we mainly go with the current system on a voluntary basis manipulated under an elite (bankers, governments, military, etc).

So if you were being tortured who is against your free will? The torturer? The entity who thinks is the perfect citizen paying the taxes for this situation to occur via unjust laws, etc?

Was that an incarnational agreement? 'just catalyst'? the result of an injust society? Why injust? orange ray blockage or oppression by a negative group/thinking patterns?

3d free will is very tricky and even then it is 'guided' by archetypical mind/archetypes.

[zenmaster]

4D entities are kind of naive, and don't really know how they are about to infringe without a focused 'scan'..