In regards to eating meat

[Oceania]

starvation is a manmade problem, when we wake up we will distribute and produce more fairly.

[Monica]

Considering the extreme starvation that persists today, I think ruling out insects as food would be completely absurd.

How would anyone "rule out" anything for others? No one is suggesting legislating diet. We are discussing the spiritual implications of personal choices.

More relevant is the question of why those people are starving in the first place.

I mean, if 4D really exists, there is no starvation, right? And if 4D is coming to a planet near you in December 2012... well... how are we going to get from here to there?

By starting with ourselves.

Aside from that one fine moment of inspiration, I don't see the entire population becoming harvestable by next year. There are other possible scenarios, as discussed in The Harvest threads.

---

the vegetarian debate goes back at least 2500 years.

I'd like to think that humans have evolved a bit in the last 2500 years. Look out just a few decades ago, women and blacks were considered second-class citizens. Humans can evolve. It sometimes happens!

Kind of curious that we just can't seem to all find a common ground on this particular subject. I wonder why that is?

The same reason you and the person who thought war was acceptable in 4D didn't find common ground.

I took a stab at this question here:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...2#pid46642

[BrownEye]

[By the way does anybody recall the word for when something has meaning on more than one level? I've been trying to remember that one all day.]

Euphemism, or from the front page of Bring4th, double entendre.

[Tenet Nosce]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

[Monica]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

COOL!!!

Yeah my cats don't like juice either. :-/

[Tenet Nosce]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

COOL!!!

Yeah my cats don't like juice either. :-/

UPDATE: Day Two of the juice fast. Still feel pretty good overall. Had some headaches last night then woke up to some mild nausea and an -interesting- bowel movement. But everything is on the ups now. I think possibly my sense of smell is improving, but I can't really say for sure. Also, I hardly feel hungry at all. But then again I usually don't.

The cats are out back hunting birds. Weird thing about them is, I never observed them actually try and eat a bird. They appear to simply hunt for the sheer joy of it, and then like to bat around the bird's carcass in the grass once they have made the kill. Cats... gotta love 'em! Keeps those pesky birds out of my garden! Somebody tried to attack my helpless little baby eggplants the other day!

[unity100]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

COOL!!!

Yeah my cats don't like juice either. :-/

UPDATE: Day Two of the juice fast. Still feel pretty good overall. Had some headaches last night then woke up to some mild nausea and an -interesting- bowel movement. But everything is on the ups now. I think possibly my sense of smell is improving, but I can't really say for sure. Also, I hardly feel hungry at all. But then again I usually don't.

you should also pay attention to arrange your food selection so that it will cause you to be * heavy * enough spiritually to match the life you are living.

if, you employ too spiritually light a diet, it would ramp up your sensitivity, your vibration-related, dulled spiritual senses and anything else so much that, you could find going through the circumstances you normally used to go in your life now becomes way too 'heavy' in regard to vibrations, even to the point of causing nonphysical, but seemingly bodily pain.

that being said, i think eating enough bakery goods (bread, fatty but natural baked products etc) seems to provide spiritually enough weight for a person who is living a fairly decent life. but if you are in the army or something, it wouldnt work i think.

The cats are out back hunting birds. Weird thing about them is, I never observed them actually try and eat a bird. They appear to simply hunt for the sheer joy of it, and then like to bat around the bird's carcass in the grass once they have made the kill. Cats... gotta love 'em! Keeps those pesky birds out of my garden! Somebody tried to attack my helpless little baby eggplants the other day!

bird is itself quite clean in regard to spiritual implications of eating of eggplants, since it more steadfastly follows a process of non-destructiveness than us, in this case.

[3DMonkey]

"bird is itself quite clean in regard to spiritual implications of eating of eggplants, since it more steadfastly follows a process of non-destructiveness than us, in this case."


Clean?

I suppose that goes for the cat as well? ... Ignorance truly is bliss. Darn Law of Responsibilty

what would spiritual implications be to a spider, biting as a manifestation of a 5D negative influence?

[Tenet Nosce]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

UPDATE: Day Two of the juice fast. Still feel pretty good overall. Had some headaches last night then woke up to some mild nausea and an -interesting- bowel movement. But everything is on the ups now. I think possibly my sense of smell is improving, but I can't really say for sure. Also, I hardly feel hungry at all. But then again I usually don't.

The cats are out back hunting birds. Weird thing about them is, I never observed them actually try and eat a bird. They appear to simply hunt for the sheer joy of it, and then like to bat around the bird's carcass in the grass once they have made the kill. Cats... gotta love 'em! Keeps those pesky birds out of my garden! Somebody tried to attack my helpless little baby eggplants the other day!

UPDATE: Day Three of the juice fast. Still not hungry.

I awoke with quite the sickening feeling of nausea and fear in my belly. My body does not feel good at all. Very achy. I had another small bowel movement followed by a brief emotional breakdown. I do feel very sensitive emotionally and as I could quite easily become overwhelmed. My "other half" feels pretty good. I really don't like that term "other half" it implies that an individual cannot be whole unto their self.

Anyway, I previously felt something strange going on in the heart area, and I have a strange nerve sensation on the right side of my face. I think it is just transient, and related to the emotional instability, but I cannot be sure. I get unusual energetic sensations from time to time and it is difficult to discern between those and the physical ones.

The symptoms seem to have passed, but I took a multivitamin (NewMark Men's Synbiotic One), some iodine drops (Progena Organic Iodide [from alfalfa and sea dulce]), some vitamin B12 (Protocol for Life Balance Methyl B12 10,000 mcg sublingual), zinc (Designs for Health Zinc Supreme), and fish oil (Designs for Health OmegAvail Hi-Po). Just to make sure I am covering my bases. Even with all my knowledge of nutrient content of foods, I cannot be sure I am meeting all my body's needs through juice alone. Actually, now that I am thinking about it, it is quite impossible.

Also, my BMI is down to 18.7. So that means I am in danger of becoming officially underweight.

As for the cats, they are both preening. I recently learned that cats will usually preen after being touched by human hands, as they find the human scent to be rather repulsive.

Also came across a -very- interesting fact in my latest bathroom reader: Pronoia is the Antidote to Paranoia. It says:

Free Will Facts. Neurobiologists at the Free University of Berlin conducted experiments to determine whether fruit flies possess spontaneity. The conclusion? How the insects behave is not merely the result of their automatic reactions to the random stimuli of their environment. Rather, they actually have free will. (Source: tinyurl.com/lof6nj)

Hmm. Fruit flies with free will. I doubt this will change my outlook on swatting them in my kitchen. AND I might seriously consider eating them, were I a starving child in Africa. But, then again, do fruit flies exist where there is no fruit? :-/

[Monica]

I awoke with quite the sickening feeling of nausea and fear in my belly. My body does not feel good at all. Very achy. I had another small bowel movement followed by a brief emotional breakdown. I do feel very sensitive emotionally and as I could quite easily become overwhelmed.

Chinese medicine teaches that certain emotions are stored in certain organs. I found this to be true when I experienced a detox of fear when taking herbs for kidneys (fear is stored in kidneys), anger when taking liver herbs (anger is stored in the liver), resentment ==> gall bladder, love/hate ==> heart, etc.

I've also experienced emotional detox many times when fasting. Very normal. It means the fast is working! The important thing is to not suppress them, but go ahead and release them, by having a good cry, hitting a punching bag, talking about your feelings, etc. It helps to have a supportive partner. Also drink plenty of water and remember to breathe deeply to facilitate the cleansing of the cells. Yoga, massage, rebounding, or any gentle exercise is also helpful.

My "other half" feels pretty good. I really don't like that term "other half" it implies that an individual cannot be whole unto their self.

Oh I agree! I like to say, "A relationship isn't 50/50...it's 100/100."

Anyway, I previously felt something strange going on in the heart area, and I have a strange nerve sensation on the right side of my face. I think it is just transient, and related to the emotional instability, but I cannot be sure. I get unusual energetic sensations from time to time and it is difficult to discern between those and the physical ones.

It's also normal to have heightened sensitivity about bodily sensations.

Just to make sure I am covering my bases. Even with all my knowledge of nutrient content of foods, I cannot be sure I am meeting all my body's needs through juice alone. Actually, now that I am thinking about it, it is quite impossible.

I wouldn't worry about meeting nutritional needs during a fast. It can't be done and isn't the point of the fast. The digestive system shuts down by day 2 or 3, and that's when hunger usually leaves (you're lucky you weren't hungry the first couple of days) and the work of detox begins. Based on our own research as well as working with practitioners who specialized in deep cleansing via fasting, we never took any supplements during a fast, as that would counteract what we were trying to accomplish. We did, however, do lots of juice and green powder (bluegreen algae, chlorella, spirulina, etc.) which actually facilitated the cleanse, as well as kept the body from getting depleted.

As you already mentioned, it's also important to take fiber, particularly if your juicer filters out the fiber.

Also, my BMI is down to 18.7. So that means I am in danger of becoming officially underweight.

I wouldn't be concerned about that. You'll bounce back after the fast.

As for the cats, they are both preening. I recently learned that cats will usually preen after being touched by human hands, as they find the human scent to be rather repulsive.

That must have been written by a dog lover/cat hater! Cats loooooovvvvvve being touched by humans! They rub up against us, they snuggle, they adore being petted/stroked, and even demand it! And here's proof: The purrrrrrrrr to let us know they love it!

As they say, "When in doubt, wash!"

[BrownEye]

Good job on the fast. Some of the numbness will go away making for a lot of strange sensations LoL.

[Tenet Nosce]

Just got a juicer! YUM!

UPDATE: Juice fast, Day One. I feel pretty good, but the cats do not seem too interested in partaking of the juice.

UPDATE: Day Two of the juice fast. Still feel pretty good overall. Had some headaches last night then woke up to some mild nausea and an -interesting- bowel movement. But everything is on the ups now. I think possibly my sense of smell is improving, but I can't really say for sure. Also, I hardly feel hungry at all. But then again I usually don't.

The cats are out back hunting birds. Weird thing about them is, I never observed them actually try and eat a bird. They appear to simply hunt for the sheer joy of it, and then like to bat around the bird's carcass in the grass once they have made the kill. Cats... gotta love 'em! Keeps those pesky birds out of my garden! Somebody tried to attack my helpless little baby eggplants the other day!

UPDATE: Day Three of the juice fast. Still not hungry.

I awoke with quite the sickening feeling of nausea and fear in my belly. My body does not feel good at all. Very achy. I had another small bowel movement followed by a brief emotional breakdown. I do feel very sensitive emotionally and as I could quite easily become overwhelmed. My "other half" feels pretty good. I really don't like that term "other half" it implies that an individual cannot be whole unto their self.

Anyway, I previously felt something strange going on in the heart area, and I have a strange nerve sensation on the right side of my face. I think it is just transient, and related to the emotional instability, but I cannot be sure. I get unusual energetic sensations from time to time and it is difficult to discern between those and the physical ones.

The symptoms seem to have passed, but I took a multivitamin (NewMark Men's Synbiotic One), some iodine drops (Progena Organic Iodide [from alfalfa and sea dulce]), some vitamin B12 (Protocol for Life Balance Methyl B12 10,000 mcg sublingual), zinc (Designs for Health Zinc Supreme), and fish oil (Designs for Health OmegAvail Hi-Po). Just to make sure I am covering my bases. Even with all my knowledge of nutrient content of foods, I cannot be sure I am meeting all my body's needs through juice alone. Actually, now that I am thinking about it, it is quite impossible.

Also, my BMI is down to 18.7. So that means I am in danger of becoming officially underweight.

As for the cats, they are both preening. I recently learned that cats will usually preen after being touched by human hands, as they find the human scent to be rather repulsive.

Also came across a -very- interesting fact in my latest bathroom reader: Pronoia is the Antidote to Paranoia. It says:

Free Will Facts. Neurobiologists at the Free University of Berlin conducted experiments to determine whether fruit flies possess spontaneity. The conclusion? How the insects behave is not merely the result of their automatic reactions to the random stimuli of their environment. Rather, they actually have free will. (Source: tinyurl.com/lof6nj)

Hmm. Fruit flies with free will. I doubt this will change my outlook on swatting them in my kitchen. AND I might seriously consider eating them, were I a starving child in Africa. But, then again, do fruit flies exist where there is no fruit? :-/

UPDATE: Day 4

Last night I "cheated" and had a few beers. They were made with beet juice, so that was my tenuous rationalization to make it "OK".

More relevantly, I observed that I lost another two pounds. My body does not look good to me at all, and I already know how difficult it can sometimes be for me to put on weight.

My overall sense of health does not appear to be much improved. Then again, I was feeling just fine before the fast.

I have decided to have some almonds, although I am still not hungry. We shall see how things develop from there.

[BrownEye]

I will add a few bits of info that help to understand my stance on animals.

I did not become vegetarian out of care for animals. I had only changed for health reasons, after an eye opening conference done by an ER doctor. He showed a nice side by side comparison of the internal organs which explained why I had started to see digestive problems, along with the "greasy feeling" in the blood I was at the time feeling.

After having been clean of meat for some time the compassion for animals came out. A side effect was that animals do not run from me, they just tend to sit right there and watch me, or even act like I am not there. I laugh at my hunter buddies, and how everything runs from them because of the carnivore smell that emanates from their body scaring off their prey.

The other big issue is the amount of "help" possible from us. I have tracked the whereabouts of a few souls of my former pets. What I found is that through my interaction, one of them made a jump to a different species. From a ferret to a dog. Every other pet I could think of is the same species of animal living somewhere on the same continent.

So to think that I was personally able to help a specific soul in a lower density evolve directly after interaction with myself is a pretty awesome feeling. This to me says that we as an individual can have a huge effect on evolution itself, if we choose to do so.

[Monica]

My overall sense of health does not appear to be much improved. Then again, I was feeling just fine before the fast.

I suggest not expecting to notice benefits this soon. The 'high' from fasting usually kicks in after a few days, and the cleansing benefits are similar to what you might experience by starting an exercise regime, only faster. In other words, I wouldn't expect to necessarily 'feel' anything at this point, but what usually happens is just a heightened sense of well-being, ie. lighter...more vitality because the sludge has been removed.

At any rate, 3 days is simply not enough time to judge it. I normally fast for at least a week, sometimes 2. (The most I've done is 3 and that was kinda rough towards the end...1 week is sufficient in most cases unless the person is really sick and toxic.)

I have decided to have some almonds, although I am still not hungry. We shall see how things develop from there.

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Eating even a single bite of solid food will reactivate the digestive system, and end the fast. You will probably then get hungry.

I've found that it's much easier to just do liquids only - nothing solid at all - than to tease myself with a few bites of food. If I am trying to fast, that is.

Another approach is to just do a raw foods cleanse; ie. unlimited fruits, veggies, juices, nuts and seeds. That works too, to cleanse the body, and it's completely stress-free since the person can eat as much as they want. But it's not a fast. It works just as well; just not as fast. (pun intended.)

[unity100]

it is also possible that you may feel crankiness and incompatibility with your environment, life and so on after becoming vegetarian. i found out that in my case this was due to my new lighter vibration and psychology. living in a heavier vibration environment started to disturb me. i had to change my life.

[BrownEye]

I just experienced something that was an eye opener today.

I was starving at work, did not bring enough lunch, and grabbed a small bag of chips from the vending machine. Within 10-15 minutes I received what is called a psychic or astral attack, a burning sharp pain on the back side of my neck. I recognized this feeling from previously pinpointed and validated attacks. It was fairly strong, and I was also able to pinpoint the source.

Shortly after I realized something, that the junk food I ate had allowed something, like a hole in my shielding, making it easier for something to attach to me.

As soon as I got home I looked into it, and got hold of the others to check on this. It seems a good diet has a huge effect against astral entities and other dark spirit forms. A good diet makes your system stronger in more ways than one. This was one of the reasons for fasting in the old days, to clear out poisons along with negative attachments.

The logic can be seen in this way. We know that certain stones ward off demons/spirits/astral critters, by absorbing negative energy, which in turn makes these sorts of entities weaker by taking it from them. So, if we had those same minerals in our body it has the same effect, even better I would say. There are many different stones that have the same effect on these negative things.

I gotta say, tonights experience has sort of solidified the dietary importance to me even more.

[Monica]

the junk food I ate had allowed something, like a hole in my shielding, making it easier for something to attach to me.

I've had similar experiences. About 10 years ago, I actually ate meat again for awhile, in a desperate attempt to alleviate some unusual physical ailments. It didn't help at all, so after nearly a year, I went back to my vegetarian self. But during that time that I was eating meat (salmon and organic chicken), I had nightmares. They weren't even just nightmares, but a strange feeling of an evil presence in the room, when I was in a twilight state. It was very, very creepy! I experimented and found a direct correlation between the days I ate meat and the days I didn't. But, the effect would last several days, so it took me awhile to figure that part out. If I ate chicken on Monday, I would have nightmares for several nights after that, even if I ate no meat the next few days.

I realize the meat-eaters may now say, "But I eat meat and I never have nightmares." Well, Pickle probably didn't notice any effects from junk food, back when he used to eat it regularly. But after quitting something and going back to it later, one can feel the difference. After being a vegetarian for nearly 20 years, I could no longer tolerate the vibrations of dead animals.

The logic can be seen in this way. We know that certain stones ward off demons/spirits/astral critters, by absorbing negative energy, which in turn makes these sorts of entities weaker by taking it from them. So, if we had those same minerals in our body it has the same effect, even better I would say. There are many different stones that have the same effect on these negative things.

I think it's more than that. You didn't just lose all your minerals from eating a bag of chips. That bag of chips didn't so much take anything from your body, as it did add negative substances. I think it's more a case of negative substances attracting entities of the same frequency.

When I ate the meat, I was absorbing all the fear that the chicken or fish had at the moment of slaughter. That fear attracted negative entities who feed on fear. This had been happening all along, but after cleaning my system by being a vegetarian all those years, I was able to perceive and recognize it.

[native]

When I ate the meat, I was absorbing all the fear that the chicken or fish had at the moment of slaughter. That fear attracted negative entities who feed on fear. This had been happening all along, but after cleaning my system by being a vegetarian all those years, I was able to perceive and recognize it.

That's an interesting thought, but could your nightmares simply have been a reflection of the turmoil within your consciousness? Given that you have such strong feelings on this subject, the fact that you had to compromise your beliefs and put a strain on yourself emotionally (I imagine you weren't happy about having to eat meat), your emotional state could have opened yourself up to a negative state. Your dreams perhaps were simply reflecting the disharmony you felt within yourself.

[BrownEye]

Pickle probably didn't notice any effects from junk food, back when he used to eat it regularly.

This shows the elimination form of diet experimentation. When you feel better after removing something from your diet, chances are it is not good for you.

I think it's more than that. You didn't just lose all your minerals from eating a bag of chips. That bag of chips didn't so much take anything from your body, as it did add negative substances. I think it's more a case of negative substances attracting entities of the same frequency.

I should have been more specific. It seems that I took in poison which I suppose can create doorways into my self. Many natural hallucinogens accomplish the exact same thing, while also being considered toxic. What I experienced was a weakening of my energy self. So this means that the opposite would also be true, and the diet is a less "conscious" mode of defense.

could your nightmares simply have been a reflection of the turmoil within your consciousness?

There is a small possibility.

The last time I tried to eat a salad with chicken, it made me sick. I had a completely localized pain that started up high and slowly made its way through my system. It was the strangest thing to "feel" this pain move from side to side and around the bends instead of the generalized whole area pain I was used to growing up. The sensitivity and awareness really changes when the system gets cleaned up a bit.

Other than that, I quit mainly because I got to where I could not digest meat. If I was to eat meat today, I would not poop for about a week. That just does not work for me.

[Monica]

That's an interesting thought, but could your nightmares simply have been a reflection of the turmoil within your consciousness? Given that you have such strong feelings on this subject, the fact that you had to compromise your beliefs and put a strain on yourself emotionally (I imagine you weren't happy about having to eat meat), your emotional state could have opened yourself up to a negative state. Your dreams perhaps were simply reflecting the disharmony you felt within yourself.

No, because by the time I finally decided to eat meat, I have already gone thru all the turmoil. A nutritionist friend kept telling me my problems were because I was a vegetarian. Only because I was in a position of weakness (being sick) and had exhausted all other avenues, ie. very desperate, did I finally agree to try it. But I agonized for weeks before I finally did it. So if the nightmares were because of inner turmoil, then I would have had them during those weeks of agonizing.

But I didn't. They started the first day I ate meat. And, it was a very strange feeling...hard to describe...but a feeling of some other presence being with me. Not at all like nightmares I've had which reflected fears or stress in my life. In other words, I've had nightmares during times of stress, which were nothing like this. This was different. This was a vibrational thing.

[native]

Strange. My only suspicion is if you are actually consuming fear of the animal, or if you are only consuming your own negative thoughts. We know that we can program crystals and send love to a crystal such as water, so I'm wondering if by the act of eating meat, you were surrounding that with negativity and then consuming it. But I'm not sure how easily we can program meat

---

The last time I tried to eat a salad with chicken, it made me sick. I had a completely localized pain that started up high and slowly made its way through my system. It was the strangest thing to "feel" this pain move from side to side and around the bends instead of the generalized whole area pain I was used to growing up. The sensitivity and awareness really changes when the system gets cleaned up a bit.

I'm not doubting the sensitivity part of it..I've experienced it myself with things I've stopped consuming.

[Oceania]

Abraham says blessing the animal the meat came from, and blessing the meat, will help. i still don't want to eat meat though.

[BrownEye]

We know that we can program crystals and send love to a crystal such as water, so I'm wondering if by the act of eating meat, you were surrounding that with negativity and then consuming it. But I'm not sure how easily we can program meat

We can program living things, such as water, crystals, plants, etc. I think once the flesh is dead the only thing that can be programmed would be the bacteria in the flesh.

[native]

Wasn't there a part where Ra suggested giving thanks for the food at the table before consumption..to surround the food with energies?

I lean more towards the idea that the stronger your feelings towards what you're consuming, the stronger the effect will be. Even inanimate objects can affect our consciousness, as the bible was used to tune Carla. We also charge objects for the use of invoking the magical personality when we put them on.

[BrownEye]

Wasn't there a part where Ra suggested giving thanks for the food at the table before consumption..to surround the food with energies?

I lean more towards the idea that the stronger your feelings towards what you're consuming, the stronger the effect will be. Even inanimate objects can affect our consciousness, as the bible was used to tune Carla. We also charge objects for the use of invoking the magical personality when we put them on.

That sounds more like transmutation maybe. I have tested which foods blessing will change for me. Dried or cooked processed food will not change. Wet foods will change, even canned foods. I even tried this after microwaving food. But if food had no water content whatsoever I could not change it. This is just my personal experience though. Maybe others can do more.

[Monica]

Strange. My only suspicion is if you are actually consuming fear of the animal, or if you are only consuming your own negative thoughts. We know that we can program crystals and send love to a crystal such as water, so I'm wondering if by the act of eating meat, you were surrounding that with negativity and then consuming it. But I'm not sure how easily we can program meat

I don't think it was programming at all, but simply physiological. We know that fear generates hormones in the body. It's a known fact. Those animals had those fear hormones, which in turn got into my body, physically, which in turn attracted the nasties. I just was never aware of the nasties before because I wasn't as sensitive before.

This also fits in with why some psychics claim that meat 'grounds' them by making them less sensitive.

Abraham says blessing the animal the meat came from, and blessing the meat, will help.

It might help the person eating it, but it does nothing for the animal.

And, it's inefficient. Why have to spend so much energy attempting to transform it?

i still don't want to eat meat though.

Me neither.

We can program living things, such as water, crystals, plants, etc. I think once the flesh is dead the only thing that can be programmed would be the bacteria in the flesh.

Exactly.

---

Wet foods will change, even canned foods. I even tried this after microwaving food. But if food had no water content whatsoever I could not change it.

That's very interesting! It suggests that it's the water you are affecting, not the other substances.

[Oceania]

it's why i eat junk food at times, to make myself not sensitive. in fact i've felt junk food is protective all my life. it made me able to tolerate living in a lower atmosphere i spose.

---

i figured it was the water too. dense dry solid foods are prolly harder to affect.

[Monica]

Even inanimate objects can affect our consciousness, as the bible was used to tune Carla. We also charge objects for the use of invoking the magical personality when we put them on.

It could be that it has less to do with the object, than with our perception of the object, in those cases. As you were suggesting with my view of meat. I'm not disputing that this dynamic exists. A Bible, for example, carries the potential for a very high charge. But the charge is in the people's reaction to it, not the object itself. People either adore their Bibles or, in the case of non-Christians, might actually loathe them. Look at the difference between how a Muslim might feel about their Koran, vs. how a Christian might feel about the same Koran. A Christian might think it's 'satanic' and actually hate it.

It's the same book. It has nothing to do with the substance in the book, but in the person's view of it. Thus, the charge is in the person, not in the object.

However, that doesn't negate the possibility of some objects carrying a charge because of the substance they are made of, independent of people's view of it.

A bit of arsenic is poisonous, whether the person is aware that they just ingested arsenic or not.

Likewise, a piece of dead animal tissue has fear hormones, physically, whether the person is aware of it or not.

The only difference is in how the person reacts to those fear hormones. I was eating fear hormones for years before I became a vegetarian. That didn't change. When I ate meat again later for a short while, the only thing that changed was that I became aware of it.

---

it's why i eat junk food at times, to make myself not sensitive. in fact i've felt junk food is protective all my life. it made me able to tolerate living in a lower atmosphere i spose

There could also be an emotional component there. Junk foods are notoriously good comfort foods. When people feel stressed or depressed, they often reach for the wine, the cheese, the chocolates, the ice cream, the cookies...they are known to help suppress strong emotions and temporarily seem to make the person feel better.

The emotions tend to just get buried though.

[native]

It's a complex topic for sure..I don't know the answers.

[Nyu]

Hmm, juice fast eh? I did a full fast a few weeks ago but I only lasted 2 days.. and I don't think I realised that diet is what makes you become spiritually lighter. I have the urge to be total veg but at the same time it can be difficult with a busy lifestyle.. keep on truckin'