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*Bring4th_Austin* · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2011, 05:02 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)

When I first came to this forum, I held beliefs which were not in congruence with the Law of One material. As I expressed these beliefs, they were questioned and I was asked to reconcile them against the backdrop of Ra's words.

At that moment I came to a crossroads, the same that Vbaba came to. There were essentially 4 choices to make.

1) Explain how these views were in accordance to the Ra material. If the questioners were not happy with my explanations, simply acknowledge a difference of opinion and move on.

2) Take into consideration the Ra material that was being shared with me, of which I was unaware and didn't realize was in conflict with my beliefs. It offered a chance to adopt the material and integrate it with my beliefs.

3) Take into consideration the Ra material beings shared with me and reject it as part of my personal beliefs. As I said, it's very easy to say "I don't believe that part of the Ra material."

4) Decide I was not ready to reconcile my current beliefs with the Ra material nor state that there were parts of the Ra material I didn't believe, and leave.

Vbaba chose number 4, a choice every bit as legitimate as the first 3. We don't have to stay inside the "Ra box," but since this is a forum dedicated to discussing the Ra material, you have to be comfortable being outside the "Ra box" when that is the case.

Namaste · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2011, 05:08 PM by Namaste.)

Very good points, but I think 111 was approaching from another angle. Quite simply: where does one draw the line at questioning as to not offend another, regardless of their beliefs?

vbaba was offended enough to leave. Yes one can put the blame in her hands only, as she chose to leave, but can every single person involved honestly say there was not a single ounce of negativity aimed at her?

111 · 06-13-2011, 05:04 PM

I was under the impession this was the bring4th forum, not just a LOO forum. As in bring all of the vibrations of 4th density. Not just the LOO side of the story. So in that respect bombarding Vbada in the Wanderer Story forum of all places was kinda rude. That's a place where people who haven't fit in their whole life are supposed to have to feel safe and share things they have experienced. If vbada had shared this in the Strictly Law of One section (and there is a forum strictly related to the Ra material. This would have been a better place to scrutinize Vbabas words as opposed to question everything on there personal experience. I feel iit was handeled wrong.

06-13-2011, 05:27 PM

Oh it was fine. Vbaba just had a change of heart.

I do that alot, only I never go thru with leaving. She'll be welcomed if she comes back.

*Bring4th_Austin* · 06-13-2011, 06:26 PM

(06-13-2011, 05:03 PM)Namaste Wrote: Yes one can put the blame in her hands only, as she chose to leave, but can every single person involved honestly say there was not a single ounce of negativity aimed at her?

Good food for contemplation.

Oceania · 06-13-2011, 06:48 PM

if it's intuitive expression then say that it is. that's no big deal then. it's not proof we want but some sort of direction as to where these claims came from. it's not a bad thing to ask for that, why are you taking offense? noone afaik said that vbaba can't post on the forums, we merely wanted to have a discussion and that involves questions.

unity100 · 06-13-2011, 06:54 PM

(06-13-2011, 05:04 PM)111 Wrote: I was under the impession this was the bring4th forum, not just a LOO forum. As in bring all of the vibrations of 4th density. Not just the LOO side of the story. So in that respect bombarding Vbada in the Wanderer Story forum of all places was kinda rude. That's a place where people who haven't fit in their whole life are supposed to have to feel safe and share things they have experienced. If vbada had shared this in the Strictly Law of One section (and there is a forum strictly related to the Ra material. This would have been a better place to scrutinize Vbabas words as opposed to question everything on there personal experience. I feel iit was handeled wrong.

lets break it down to plainspeak :

noone has the right to preach others his/her perspective, and expect to not questioned/challenged about it.

that is not called sharing, it is called preaching.

the person in question did not only participate in the wanderer stories thread, sharing his/her subjective experience. there are a lot of people doing that, and they are not being challenged as to their subjective experiences - vbaba participated in many other threads OUTSIDE wanderer stories forum, and started preaching his perspective about a lot of things.

people, naturally have asked his/her sources or rationalizations for those. it doesnt have to be a forum related to Ra material for that - it can and should be done in any forum.

even if s/he did it only in wanderer stories forum, it would still be natural to ask questions/challenge. there is a point where a subjective experience/story passes to being preaching to others - and that's the point when it touches a lot of common subjects that interest/affect many people, and no source/reasoning provided for what is being told.

(06-13-2011, 06:26 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 05:03 PM)Namaste Wrote: Yes one can put the blame in her hands only, as she chose to leave, but can every single person involved honestly say there was not a single ounce of negativity aimed at her?

Good food for contemplation.

i didnt see any 'ounce' of negativity. of course, everyone has different interpretations of negativity, as can be seen from what vbaba says 'questions are ok but persecution isnt'.

and i expect a lot of people who are thinking like him/her, would take questioning when they say 'jesus is the lord of this planet' or similar stuff, as something negative.

it is not.

Oceania · 06-13-2011, 07:05 PM

i agree. and it's not negativity to experience frustration at someone not providing a source for stuff they keep repeating on threads, interesting stuff but no way to validate or explore when the person doesn't reply to queries. what point is to provide information when noone can poke a stick at it? we're meant to be discerning and questioning and that's a good thing, to explore stuff together without getting offended by honest interest. which is what i felt towards vbaba's stuff. i wanted to know more and where it came from. because i don't just believe every fairy story without some sort of logic behind it. such as where did the information come from. a lot of Ra material is something that is outside outside validation, therefore the only validation is that it's part of a reliable in many ways material, which is the whole Ra material. the only reason i consider some of the LOO is because of the validated and discernable parts of it. when someone introduces stuff without any ties to an existing channel or work, then how are we supposed to determine if it's trustworthy? cuz it sounds cool? no, then there really is no way which renders the information mostly unusable and that's a pity. that's just my take on it.

111 · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2011, 07:33 PM by 111.)

(06-13-2011, 06:54 PM)unity100 Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 05:04 PM)111 Wrote: I was under the impession this was the bring4th forum, not just a LOO forum. As in bring all of the vibrations of 4th density. Not just the LOO side of the story. So in that respect bombarding Vbada in the Wanderer Story forum of all places was kinda rude. That's a place where people who haven't fit in their whole life are supposed to have to feel safe and share things they have experienced. If vbada had shared this in the Strictly Law of One section (and there is a forum strictly related to the Ra material. This would have been a better place to scrutinize Vbabas words as opposed to question everything on there personal experience. I feel iit was handeled wrong.

lets break it down to plainspeak :

noone has the right to preach others his/her perspective, and expect to not questioned/challenged about it.

that is not called sharing, it is called preaching.

the person in question did not only participate in the wanderer stories thread, sharing his/her subjective experience. there are a lot of people doing that, and they are not being challenged as to their subjective experiences - vbaba participated in many other threads OUTSIDE wanderer stories forum, and started preaching his perspective about a lot of things.

people, naturally have asked his/her sources or rationalizations for those. it doesnt have to be a forum related to Ra material for that - it can and should be done in any forum.

even if s/he did it only in wanderer stories forum, it would still be natural to ask questions/challenge. there is a point where a subjective experience/story passes to being preaching to others - and that's the point when it touches a lot of common subjects that interest/affect many people, and no source/reasoning provided for what is being told.

(06-13-2011, 06:26 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 05:03 PM)Namaste Wrote: Yes one can put the blame in her hands only, as she chose to leave, but can every single person involved honestly say there was not a single ounce of negativity aimed at her?

Good food for contemplation.

i didnt see any 'ounce' of negativity. of course, everyone has different interpretations of negativity, as can be seen from what vbaba says 'questions are ok but persecution isnt'.

and i expect a lot of people who are thinking like him/her, would take questioning when they say 'jesus is the lord of this planet' or similar stuff, as something negative.

it is not.

. And I feel in the same regards you Preach your views of the Law of One. And you defend your beliefs vigorously. I found the discussion entertaining. That dosent mean I have to feel it was handled with respect. In a since the "christ coinsiousness" is the "Lord" of a 4d sphere. To someone with a diffrent terminology and perspective they may misinterprate this info being preceived. I agree, in re reading Vbaba preached, but when you feel backed into a corner by a million questions at once that's a lot of pressure. I'm not passing judgment on anyone, I'm just saying as a forum I guess I just expected Bring4th to be a little more accepting of outside perspective... But its all good Smile

I wish Vbaba much love and light in their journey! As I wish you all, there's only Love!!

(06-13-2011, 12:05 PM)ahktu Wrote: I think this is the true basis of forming a memory complex. How can bazillions of people be expected to just mesh together seamlessly? Various issues will have to be aired...various personality discrepancies will have to be accepted and balanced. All the skeletons need to come out of the closet, in their various forms. It seems to me like some people would love to pretend that everything is perfect, and that a good relationship involves never disagreeing with anyone or having any sort of problems, ever. In my opinion, this is delusion and little more.

My husband says that it was when we had our first fight...and stayed together after...that he knew our relationship was strong. It's typical for us to have some huge falling out every few months (at least), usually over something stupid. We scream at each other and slam doors and throw temper tantrums, and then when it's all out we observe the pieces and start sticking them back together again, because we value our relationship more than our pride. When we fight, I do not think "Ugh! I can no longer be with this person!" I think "This is helping us find out new things about each other, so we can get along better in the future." A world without any sort of conflict...I think I'd run away from that as quickly as possible, because it would be fake.

I think that a lot of people, especially wanderers and the like, are experiencing a great deal of sensitivity right now. Just look at my little outburst a month or so back. I got so angry and offended over nothing. The energy is so extremely high right now, I feel constantly on edge. A lot of hidden truth is coming to light, and some of it is hard to digest. Just about everyone I've talked to is experiencing the same thing...emotions running amok, tempers flaring, and a growing inability to express anything through words. Perhaps a bit of understanding and tolerance on all sides is what is needed most. This is the middle of the storm that will usher in a new way of life. It's supposed to be stormy! S**t happens...without it, we'd all still be sitting in caves talking in grunts.

This is the explosion that forms the star.

<3 this BTW

unity100 · 06-13-2011, 07:34 PM

(06-13-2011, 07:12 PM)111 Wrote: And I feel in the same regards you Preach your views of the Law of One. And you defend your beliefs vigorously.

and in case you havent noticed, i am open to providing references AND rationalizations for ALL of what i say, leave aside the ones that contradict Ra material.

some, dont like to do that.

Quote:I found the discussion entertaining. That dosent mean I have to feel it was handled with respect. In a since the "christ coinsiousness" is the "Lord" of a 4d sphere. To someone with a diffrent terminology and perspective they may misinterprate this info being preceived.

well then excuse me but, it is the 'preacher's task to be aware of his/her terminological difference, and explain it to others. everyone else is not bound to know and talk in others' terminologies. when someone asks, you provide your terminology.

he didnt provide any explanation like you provide by interpreting 'lord of this planet' as 'christ consciousness' or anything. you are providing that in your behalf in your mind yourself, and then judging disrespect with your presupposition.

a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

@ndy · 06-13-2011, 07:39 PM

Man, Unity, look at your words, you've got a lot of ego going on. That's great you have rationalizations and explanations, but I in no way see this as a requirement for validity. Certainly, it is useful for you to reconcile it with your own preconceptions about reality, but you really are preaching still. Even religious zealots provide their own rationalizations and explanations. I see you using the "established" view as a fulcrum from which to exude your "authority".

Not that I deny you the right and truth of your knowledge, but your pressure is noxious.

06-13-2011, 08:51 PM

I find funny she was trying to drag a picture to a post...but again I do not mean disrespect...

111 · 06-13-2011, 09:04 PM

(06-13-2011, 07:34 PM)unity100 Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 07:12 PM)111 Wrote: And I feel in the same regards you Preach your views of the Law of One. And you defend your beliefs vigorously.

and in case you havent noticed, i am open to providing references AND rationalizations for ALL of what i say, leave aside the ones that contradict Ra material.

some, dont like to do that.

Quote:I found the discussion entertaining. That dosent mean I have to feel it was handled with respect. In a since the "christ coinsiousness" is the "Lord" of a 4d sphere. To someone with a diffrent terminology and perspective they may misinterprate this info being preceived.

well then excuse me but, it is the 'preacher's task to be aware of his/her terminological difference, and explain it to others. everyone else is not bound to know and talk in others' terminologies. when someone asks, you provide your terminology.

he didnt provide any explanation like you provide by interpreting 'lord of this planet' as 'christ consciousness' or anything. you are providing that in your behalf in your mind yourself, and then judging disrespect with your presupposition.

a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

Namaste brother

*Bring4th_Austin* · 06-13-2011, 09:09 PM

(06-13-2011, 07:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

What's even better than the meaning behind this analogy is the hilarious imagery. BigSmile

06-13-2011, 09:18 PM

Haha is not that the definition of language....

111 · 06-13-2011, 09:20 PM

(06-13-2011, 09:09 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 07:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

What's even better than the meaning behind this analogy is the hilarious imagery.

Yes, its hilarious to make fun of the way some of your fellow wanderers discuss their understandings. The sarcasm and sheer rudeness of this statement screams Unity. The way you have described is exactly how a lot of us discuss and distill our own ideas.

06-13-2011, 09:42 PM

I don't understand 111. she was treated with much respect overall in my opinion..some questions were asked...she said "take it or leave it"...She took no offense on unity100 if I remember her answers to him; I think she was upset with others as a matter of fact...You have to give that person the free will to leave...it was her choice.

*Bring4th_Austin* · 06-13-2011, 09:45 PM

(06-13-2011, 09:20 PM)111 Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 09:09 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 07:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

What's even better than the meaning behind this analogy is the hilarious imagery.

Yes, its hilarious to make fun of the way some of your fellow wanderers discuss their understandings. The sarcasm and sheer rudeness of this statement screams Unity. The way you have described is exactly how a lot of us discuss and distill our own ideas.

The analogy is an analogy, the imagery is funny, where is the insult?

111 · 06-13-2011, 09:51 PM

(06-13-2011, 09:42 PM)Raman Wrote: I don't understand 111. she was treated with much respect overall in my opinion..some questions were asked...she said "take it or leave it"...She took no offense on unity100 if I remember her answers to him; I think she was upset with others as a matter of fact...You have to give that person the free will to leave...it was her choice.

I'm willing to accept that, if you go back and read this forum I wasn't directing my words at anyone. Unity took in upon himself to question my opinons. And I really don't find it nescesary to discuss Vbaba or this thread any further. Thank you tho Raman, I should do better at seeing others perspectives as well. Sorry guys if any of my opinions offend you.

06-13-2011, 09:51 PM

by the way 111 you can get the books that she based her info from...she mentioned those a few times I think.

they sell those at piquapress.com based in Florida. Wrote by Chief Little Summer."The Teachings for the 4th density aquarian" or something like that.

Ankh · 06-13-2011, 10:08 PM

(06-13-2011, 06:26 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 05:03 PM)Namaste Wrote: Yes one can put the blame in her hands only, as she chose to leave, but can every single person involved honestly say there was not a single ounce of negativity aimed at her?

Good food for contemplation.

Hey. What's a guy got to do? Leave the forum to get some love around here?

(06-13-2011, 08:51 PM)Raman Wrote: I find funny she was trying to drag a picture to a post...but again I do not mean disrespect...

Awwww. Now that is wrong

I thought vbaba was "cute". Honestly, I couldn't make it through any post of hers. There was too much new info to process. I could see she was setting herself up by lobbing them out there. Yeah, she told me "take or leave it" when I was joking about cats ( I mean devils).

Everyone, the joke could be on us. She could've been pulling our chain the whole time.

Bye gones.

Namaste · (This post was last modified: 06-14-2011, 04:35 AM by Namaste.)

As with any set of circumstances, it's very easy remove responsibility from one's self and blame another, but, what was the outcome? Non-acceptance - the bain of all organised religion. What is the message of the Ra Material? Acceptance (in part). We are one. Each facet of the oneness is beautiful in its individuality, and should be treated as such.

vbaba acted as catalyst for this forum, and the outcome speaks more than the words offered here.

The reason I'm re-iterating this is simple; a crux of positive polarisation (and the evolution of our species) is that we accept each other, without having to repeatedly question (past another's comfort levels) until the person either changes their beliefs to your own, or leaves. That is far from the message Ra offers. It's not about the technicalities. Technicalities I might add, that no one here can prove, at all. The only thing one can prove/measure (at this time) is how one acts towards another. This is where efforts should be made if one is wishing to polarise positively and help this planet evolve. It's not about my beliefs vs. your beliefs (even on this forum), it's about my beliefs AND your beliefs.

Peace and love, brothers and sisters :¬)

Ankh · 06-14-2011, 04:37 AM

There should be a button called "love this post".

Oceania · 06-14-2011, 06:06 AM

noone was doing that. i for one was interested in discussing vbaba's stuff. if vbaba chooses, and it is a choice according to LOO, to take offense, then why are all the questioners at fault here? why is vbaba the only one who can take offense here? someone who is not to be offended by any challenge whatsoever while the rest of us can fend for ourselves? how is that fair? in all fairness, vbaba was free to ignore the questions. this isn't a prison where people are forced to do stuff.

Ankh · (This post was last modified: 06-14-2011, 06:38 AM by Ankh.)

I wholeheartedly agree with Namaste.

As a Wanderer I feel that my honor/duty is not to challenge someone, or bring them down, but to build people up. To give them a comfort and support in their seeking, no matter how far it may seem to be from my own "truth". There is enough challenge in this world, there are enough catalysts. I came here to share love and light. This planet and people here are aching for that. It is their next destination. And we came here to increase the Harvest, to increase these numbers, not to shrink them. So if someone says that a spacecraft will take this person onboard where the new 4D body is awaiting that has been manifactured at the rings of Saturn, I will give that person the support and love as primarily action, and then gently and softly show the section in the material where it is stated otherwise, without the expactation of that person believing it. That will be this person's choice.

Zygra · 06-14-2011, 06:59 AM

(06-14-2011, 06:36 AM)Ankh Wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with Namaste.

As a Wanderer I feel that my honor/duty is not to challenge someone, or bring them down, but to build people up. To give them a comfort and support in their seeking, no matter how far it may seem to be from my own "truth". There is enough challenge in this world, there are enough catalysts. I came here to share love and light. This planet and people here are aching for that. It is their next destination. And we came here to increase the Harvest, to increase these numbers, not to shrink them. So if someone says that a spacecraft will take this person onboard where the new 4D body is awaiting that has been manifactured at the rings of Saturn, I will give that person the support and love as primarily action, and then gently and softly show the section in the material where it is stated otherwise, without the expactation of that person believing it. That will be this person's choice.

wow. on the spot

Namaste · 06-14-2011, 07:09 AM

(06-14-2011, 06:36 AM)Ankh Wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with Namaste.

As a Wanderer I feel that my honor/duty is not to challenge someone, or bring them down, but to build people up. To give them a comfort and support in their seeking, no matter how far it may seem to be from my own "truth". There is enough challenge in this world, there are enough catalysts. I came here to share love and light. This planet and people here are aching for that. It is their next destination. And we came here to increase the Harvest, to increase these numbers, not to shrink them. So if someone says that a spacecraft will take this person onboard where the new 4D body is awaiting that has been manifactured at the rings of Saturn, I will give that person the support and love as primarily action, and then gently and softly show the section in the material where it is stated otherwise, without the expactation of that person believing it. That will be this person's choice.

An inspirational post, Ankh. Thank you.

unity100 · 06-14-2011, 07:38 AM

(06-13-2011, 07:39 PM)Azrael Wrote: Man, Unity, look at your words, you've got a lot of ego going on. That's great you have rationalizations and explanations, but I in no way see this as a requirement for validity. Certainly, it is useful for you to reconcile it with your own preconceptions about reality, but you really are preaching still. Even religious zealots provide their own rationalizations and explanations. I see you using the "established" view as a fulcrum from which to exude your "authority".

Not that I deny you the right and truth of your knowledge, but your pressure is noxious.

did i say what i was saying was valid because i was providing rationalizations ? doesnt my bright blue signature catch your attention ?

and now it ended up as 'ego' to demand rationalization and explanation for something someone is telling as truth. like '4d bodies are manufactured in saturn's rings'.

excuse me. i wont discuss it in detail or lengthen this talk further - it isnt ego to ask rationalizations in a discussion.

it isnt ego to talk on and on on a subject by providing your reasons and logic while telling your perspective.

it is called 'discussion'.

(06-13-2011, 09:09 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:
(06-13-2011, 07:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: a situation in which people are slinging around such terminologies, and others reinterpreting them to the extreme and making those terminologies and logic fit in their mind by themselves, would be like a situation in which a group of monkeys talking to each other without really understanding what others are saying, but all believing that they are actually talking and understanding each other.

What's even better than the meaning behind this analogy is the hilarious imagery.

it was actually going to include monkeys' butts, but i held back, out of respect for the elderly.

(06-14-2011, 04:35 AM)Namaste Wrote: The reason I'm re-iterating this is simple; a crux of positive polarisation (and the evolution of our species) is that we accept each other, without having to repeatedly question (past another's comfort levels) until the person either changes their beliefs to your own, or leaves. That is far from the message Ra offers. It's not about the technicalities. Technicalities I might add, that no one here can prove, at all. The only thing one can prove/measure (at this time) is how one acts towards another. This is where efforts should be made if one is wishing to polarise positively and help this planet evolve. It's not about my beliefs vs. your beliefs (even on this forum), it's about my beliefs AND your beliefs.

Peace and love, brothers and sisters :¬)

the particular problem here, is that we are here for information too.

and in that regard, someone saying that, say, s/he is coming from 4 octaves above and giving us a lot of 'facts' about how things go around in universe ...

............

i really dont know what we are discussing at all.

accepting what someone else says without weighing it first and asking for proof is NOT love.

its foolery. you are not accepting the PERSON with that act. you are accepting what the person SAYS. there is a mountain of difference in between the two.

Namaste · 06-14-2011, 07:49 AM

A quote, for us all to enjoy. Quite apt, as it literally just popped into my inbox.

Quote:Cleverness is a gift, kindness is a choice. Gifts are easy; they're given after all. Choices can be hard. You can seduce yourself with your gifts if you're not careful, and if you do, it'll probably be to the detriment of your choices.

Jeff Bezos

zenmaster · 06-14-2011, 08:31 AM

Is what the ego wants a virtuous thing?

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