David Wilcock

[Monica]

...one must also allow that Ra couldn't know that the curvature of time and space would change but that they do know that 2012 is a definitive date?

That is probably the single best point you have made in this discussion.

[Ali Quadir]

...one must also allow that Ra couldn't know that the curvature of time and space would change but that they do know that 2012 is a definitive date?

That is probably the single best point you have made in this discussion.

It is a strong argument, yet we must also guard against drawing conclusions from this. It may sound plausible. But at the same time, when I board a train I may not know anything about the route it will take. I may not know it's average speed or the variations in it. Yet I know exactly when I will arrive. And all that without an education as train driver!

Without understanding the physics it is impossible to judge whether or not the statements made by Wilcock are correct. As evidence that he is either fraudulent or severely misguided this apparent dichotomy is simply not reliable enough. In formal reasoning I believe this is called a non sequitur. From the apparent dichotomy it does not follow that Wilcock is incorrect.

Yet at the same time nothing in his channeling suggests formally that he IS correct. I said before I have no big opinion of channeling in general. It is the material I judge, not the process. I have not studied the material channeled by Wilcock Ra or other source. And what I've read of it sounded pretty much like more of the same.

Channeled remarks are filtered through the individual unless as you all know very special care is taken. "You shall ascend" might be the proper way to say something but even then it can mean anything.

We should judge the verifiable conclusions drawn. Not the process, not the personal style, and not our gut feeling on the matter. We should also bear in mind that someones personal expressions may be a misrepresentation of something that none the less still is truth. None of us are enlightened enough to actually know this truth. All of us carry flawed representations. Simple differences are not enough to consider someone right or wrong. They are indications of a complex reality. And through all these observations might we come to a conclusion.

@Solo Maters: Wilcock has a very strong ego and his style is disliked by many. Also anything anyone ever says should be followed in the mind of the listener by "That is his opinion at this point in space time and under the influence of this mood" And it should be understood with everyone that the words are rationalisations of perceptions. For this reason I am not interested in personal opinions. Wilcock can think he's the queen of england, and at some level he'd actually be correct. I also tend not to judge these things or take them serious. I can tell you stories about the things people believe that will make you frown. Yet they are so real that people have actually changed their lives over them, been wounded by them, or fallen in love with them.

You claim wilcock has been 100% wrong in some regards. Could you give a clear example of something factual he claims that later turned out to be verifiably wrong? Without going as far as to state that we can never be mistaken for any kind of learning means we must make mistakes. And Davids insights are clearly evolving over time.

[Saidin]

According to David, he is channeling his higher self who is a member of the Ra group. In channeling his higher self, the information is filtered through his fifth density male and female selves.

This is an interesting concept that I have not run across before...do you have a source for this that I can read up on? When I read this is resonated with me and coincides with some meditations and experiences I have had lately.

Many thanks.

[Monica]

do you have a source for this that I can read up on?

Yes. It's documented in post #149 of this thread.

[Saidin]

do you have a source for this that I can read up on?

Yes. It's documented in post #149 of this thread.

There is no mention of 5th density male/female selves in that post. Maybe my query was not clear, but that is the material I am interested in.

[Monica]

do you have a source for this that I can read up on?

Yes. It's documented in post #149 of this thread.

There is no mention of 5th density male/female selves in that post. Maybe my query was not clear, but that is the material I am interested in.

OK thanks for the clarification.

I'm not sure where I read that. I'm looking for it. So far, I've found this:

from http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?op...view&id=13

There will be a pause at the end of that prayer, about 2 minutes in length or maybe a little less, and then I will begin speaking as the source Ra.

This is not Ra as it was expressed in the Law of One books, but Ra that works through my own unique mechanism, which at various times has been called The Three or David’s Guidance System.

OK, I just did a search and didn't find it. I honestly don't remember. It's possible that I read it in a personal correspondence or something. So, I retract the 'male and female selves' portion of my statement, since I can't back it up. Sorry!

[Saidin]

OK, I just did a search and didn't find it. I honestly don't remember. It's possible that I read it in a personal correspondence or something. So, I retract the 'male and female selves' portion of my statement, since I can't back it up. Sorry!

No worries, no need to apologize. I was just curious because when I read your statement it reminded me and apparently clairified some experiences I have had.

There have been two times that I can remember, where I have witnessed a male and female entity discussing things in relation to my path in a deep meditative state. It was always confusing, and I didn't know what to make of it. When I read that it seemed to click, that what I may have been percieving were those selves. I would like to explore the idea further and was hoping you could point me in a direction.

We often finds gems of insight when we were not expecting them.

[Monica]

We often finds gems of insight when we were not expecting them.

Agreed!

I don't know much about that, but I do remember taking a class on creative visualization, which included the typical meet-your-guides meditation, and we were told that each person had both male and female guides. I don't know if that was supposed to be the Higher Self, or just guides...not sure. It was many years ago, and I don't remember what sort of philosophical slant it came from.

[βαθμιαίος]

Re: male and female spirit guides:

In Book V L/L Research published a question about Jim McCarty's spirit guide Angelica. In their answer Ra said, in part, "each mind/body/spirit complex has several guides available to it. The persona of two of these guides is the polarity of male and female. The third is androgynous and represents a more unified conceptualization faculty."

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=54&ss=1#2

[Sirius]

There have been two times that I can remember, where I have witnessed a male and female entity discussing things in relation to my path in a deep meditative state. It was always confusing, and I didn't know what to make of it. When I read that it seemed to click, that what I may have been percieving were those selves. I would like to explore the idea further and was hoping you could point me in a direction.

We often finds gems of insight when we were not expecting them.

I've had experiences like you mentioned but I knew the "people" I call them Spirits. However, translating my thoughts through TLOO only one was from 6D, SHE was the only 6D spirit I knew or ever encountered. The other Spirit, is hard to clarify clearly, but HE was the biggest divulger of information to me of all Spirits I knew.

We often finds gems of insight when we were not expecting them.

Love and Light

[Eddie]

and if he is relaible I owe him alot hehe
Sirius

David is the one who led me to LLResearch; and for that, I owe him a lot.

On the other hand, he is visibly taken in by obvious con men, like Sean David Morton, Dan Burisch, and Barack Obama.

No one is perfect. Use your filter to find the useful information from anyone with whom you communicate.

[Sirius]

and if he is relaible I owe him alot hehe
Sirius

David is the one who led me to LLResearch; and for that, I owe him a lot.

On the other hand, he is visibly taken in by obvious con men, like Sean David Morton, Dan Burisch, and Barack Obama.

No one is perfect. Use your filter to find the useful information from anyone with whom you communicate.

I have to say the way that David W is treating Obama like a saviour isn't comforting. From what I know, Obama is a lovely liar, carrying on what only bush did. Somehow DW thinks he's helping?

Arguably bringing down the ecconomy is a good thing. Obama can have my support for that!

[Ali Quadir]

On the other hand...

You've got to give Obama credit for his Cairo speech though. Seeing muslims as people and talking to them as such cannot be mistaken for being negative elite. This may not be as visible to us in the west. But it makes a huge difference in the arab world.

Also it's not exactly Obama that trashed the economy. Blaming him for the current mess is like blaming the mess after a party on the janitors.

The man is not a savior I agree with you there. There are no saviors. But I think it's hard to consider him equal to the bush administration. He's a definite turn of events.

You could argue that his acts are lies... But they are acts none the less. With consequences. Positive deeds, positive seeds bear positive fruits. A friend once described it as "God accepts counterfeit coins" meaning that if you for any reason go through the positive motions with negative intent. You'll still get positive rewards. They may not be spectacular. But they will be there.

[Monica]

It's amazing to me how different people can look at the same person and get a totally opposite interpretation/reaction. My brother once told me that he thought God had raised up Bush to save our country!! And this, even towards the end! Can you believe it?

There is so much I could say on this...but I don't want to turn this thread into a political debate. There are plenty of other forums for that!

So, I shall attempt to keep my comments within the context of the Law of One.

We live in a holographic UniVerse. We mirror to one another. Ra has stated that we could all harmonize in one fine, strong moment of inspiration. What does all that really mean?

When I first heard Obama speak, I was impressed. I thought he was surely a Lightworker! But later, doubts surfaced. Conspiracy theorists (who, imo, are right about many things but also wrong about many things) told me not to fall for his slick persona - that he was really a puppet controlled by the power elite. They told me Ron Paul was our guy.

I check out Ron Paul and was extremely impressed with his sincerity, integrity, and brilliance. Whereas I had doubts about Obama, there were zero doubts about Ron Paul. No one owned Ron Paul. His loyalty was to Truth and the Constitution! He could not be bought or sold.

Alas, the media censored him (this isn't conspiracy talk but I actually saw it happen - details upon request) and, despite raising more $$ than all the other candidates, the organized parties seemed to have an agenda to discredit him.

I was devastated when he dropped out of the race. I thought we had failed to get in the one man who could save our country...and maybe the world, from economic collapse and tyranny.

During this time, I felt gripped by fear. I actually began to wonder whether perhaps I had missed the boat and had somehow gotten stuck on an Earth-lookalike planet that would now be destined for another long cycle of barbarism and violence. The future looked bleak. Alex Jones et al were pushing this bleak scenario of a one world order complete with total control of the populace...and of course the same power elite who controlled Bush also controlled Obama, didn't ya know? Concentration camps were now being built and we'd all be rounded up by Oct. 2008. There would be no election, and by 2009 we'd be living in a police state.

The more I dug, the deeper the rabbit hole got. There are numerous websites devoted to this stuff, providing compelling evidence for their conclusions.

But wait! Did anyone catch what I just said? Police state and concentration camps by 2009...hmmmm...that didn't happen did it?

We didn't have an alien mass landing either, which was 'surely' going to happen last year.

What's wrong with this picture?

FEAR. That's what's wrong with it.

While I was in the midst of fear, it all made sense to me...just like Bush being a good guy made sense to my brother. I used to email my Obama-supporting friends with website links, trying to get them to wake up to the deception they had been gullible enough to believe.

This is where I was at just one year ago.

Fortunately, I recognized that I was in the throes of fear and sought help. I asked for guidance and clarity. I made a conscious choice to get out of the state of fear and into trust and hope. I realize that being fearful was feeding the negative elite and actually contributing to the very scenario I wanted to avoid.

Q'uo answered my call in the form of a channeled session about the failed STS coup. You can see it in the 'Sessions' section. This single piece of guidance completely wiped the mud from my eyes and I realized how the game was played. I was relieved to hear that the bad guys didn't have it all wrapped up, but in fact were in their last throes! I vowed to renew my commitment to seeing the love in every moment.

There was still the issue of whom to vote for. With a new sense of clarity and a clean slate, free of preconceived biases based on faulty info, I made a conscious decision to look at the candidates with neutrality and simply observe. At this point, I realized that writing in Ron Paul's name would be throwing my vote away, and I rejected the slogan that the lesser of the evils is still evil...I made up my mind to vote for the lesser of the evils.

Then something very surprising happened. As I watched the debates and how the campaigns were run, I began to notice interesting patterns of STS & STO behavior. One side was focusing on FEAR...it was Bush all over again. Talk of good guys vs bad guys, a refusal to use diplomacy, an attitude of bullying the rest of the world, to the point of making jokes about war. It turned my stomach!

Meanwhile, the other side seemed to be taking the high road: An insistence on sticking to the issues instead of mud-slinging...And, more importantly, arguing in favor of actually - gasp! - trying to TALK to the perceived enemies!

Now keep in mind that, at this point, I didn't identify with either party. I had just come out of a mindset in which Obama was more evil than Bush! (because he was slicker) so my observations weren't based on biases, I don't think.

One of my Ron Paul 'friends' actually ended our friendship when she learned that I had decided to vote for Obama. Others shunned me as though I were a traitor! I quickly learned to not even mention it. I was still a little shaky as to how I felt about him. I found myself being defensive and saying stuff like, "Well, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt...and I'm trying to see the evil in him, I really am! But I'm just having a hard time!"

And it was true. As I watched how he treated his wife with such respect, as I saw him with his children, as I listened to his talk about peace and diplomacy, and really, really listened, what I heard were STO principles.

And this gave me hope that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't an evil STS deception after all! I decided that if this guy were really an evil puppet, then I could also start believing the fundamentalist religious people who think that whenever someone is healed because of a non-Christian method, that's it's really the devil healing them. Say, what??? Whatever happened to 'judge a tree by its fruit?' I reject the notion that we must live in fear of everything beautiful, because it 'might be the devil in disguise.'

Some of these same people still now say that if Obama succeeds in facilitating world peace, then that confirms he is the anti-Christ! Because, didn't ya know, that's what the bible predicts!

So, where is the true deception? That is the question we must ask ourselves. Are we going to cower in fear that works of peace/healing/beauty are actually deceptions of evil? Or do we embrace the very things that we know to be hallmarks of the STO polarity?

Here's what happened next: On election night, as I was watching the news footage, and keep in mind that I STILL did not have much vested interest in Obama winning, I had one of the most intense psychic experiences of my life! It came from...I don't know...because I surely didn't seek it out. I surely wasn't praying for my chosen candidate to win. I was still unsure whether I'd done the right thing by voting for Obama, or should I have made a stand and written in Ron Paul. So I wasn't like those people who were praying that candidate X win. I prayed only that the highest good for our planet would manifest.

Well, suddenly and inexplicabley I was bombarded with feelings...INTENSE feelings...of relief, joy, hope, and love. I felt that I was suddenly a radio station picking up a signal loud and clear...I could FEEL the emotions of millions of people, rejoicing! And this was before the results were even in! It was as though a huge karmic burden had been lifted...and fear had been replaced by hope. Waves upon waves of ecstatic joy swept over me...and I am certain these were real, coming from other-selves, NOT from me, because, as I said, I just wasn't that into the whole thing. These weren't my feelings. I was picking up some sort of planetary awakening and it was powerful!

I believe that something significant happened that night. It was a practice run for that 'one strong, fine moment of inspiration.' For that is truly what it was! Obviously, there were plenty of people who weren't rejoicing, so it wasn't enough to instantly transform our planet, but it WAS significant!

Does this mean that I now think Obama is perfect? No. But I now realize that, like Bush, Obama is a REFLECTION of our collective consciousness, and will be whatever we want him to be!

In other words, because a significant percentage of the world's population has chosen the principles that Obama (whether truthfully or deceptively) stands for, which are peace, diplomacy, a sustainable future, etc., I truly believe that Obama will be what we need him to be, regardless of whether he started out that way.

It's sort of like in the Oversoul Seven books, where the past was changed because of choices made in the present.

Now, when I look at Obama, I am amazed that I ever thought he could be an STS infiltrator. I just don't see it! I have searched to find the evil in him, and failed. I now question why I did that at all. Didn't I have it backwards??? Aren't we admonished to find the LOVE, not the evil? Do we not draw out the love, the good, when we seek it? Why, then, would we want to entertain the notion that someone who is outwardly doing good things (and yes, I do think Obama is doing good things - the Cairo speech alone was huge, yes, huge!) is really a fraud? Why even go there?

If evidence for deception stares us in the face, then yes, pay attention. For example, we were lied to about 911. The forensic evidence doesn't match the story. So yeah, in a clearly tangible case like that, I do think action is warranted. But a tangible case of forensic evidence proving corruption is a far cry from a nebulous "Despite what you see on the surface, Obama must surely be evil because he associates with so-and-so and we know he's evil because...because...oh yeah he's surely an illuminati because...because..." and their voice trails off because it's all based on fear and speculation!

Obama may make mistakes. Sure, speak up. We don't all agree on his economic policies. So yeah, speak up. But disagreeing on economic policies is a far cry from being an evil STS infiltrator with an agenda to take over the world! (or the anti-Christ!)

Speaking of the world, there is another issue that, imo, is crucially important, and that is what's happening to our planet. The subject of this thread, David Wilcock, thinks that the climate changes are further indications of an instantaneous shift. Perhaps. That's already been discussed. My conspiracy theorist friends think the whole global warming thing is just a hoax. ??? Yep, they really do. A hoax to further the 'one world order' agenda, which they see as inherently evil.

Just because there are changes happening on the Sun and other planets doesn't mean that humans haven't contributed to the toxic mess to the degree that our planet is really messed up right now. It blows my mind that anyone could look at how much we've poisoned our planet (and bodies) and upset the natural balance of Nature, and blow it off as nothing. How could this not affect the planet? Just because the negative elite try to exploit global warming to instill fear and seek control, doesn't mean that we didn't really pollute the planet to the degree that many species are nearing extinction and we just simply can't sustain our lifestyle much longer.

My point is: EVEN IF the 'power elite' uses global warming to further their agenda, so what? The bottom line is that a trend towards green/renewable energy is a GOOD thing. How could it not be? Regardless of the original intention regarding the political exploitation of global warming, can't we all agree that working towards a sustainable future is, helllloooo, in all of our best interests? How can healing the planet and cleaning up the mess be bad? That just doesn't compute! Look at the fruits! People coming together to create sustainable resource technologies is so obviously good that sometimes I wonder if some people aren't so caught up in fear that they'd think a trend towards a healthier lifestyle is somehow evil too. Oh wait, some do!

What I'm proposing is being less concerned about whether STS entities try to exploit global warming, or even whether or how much humans affected global warming, and more concerned about doing positive things for our planet. Why not forget about the controversy and just work together? How could working on better technologies and better utilization and preservation of resources have any down side whatsoever?

I just saw a video called Home that makes Al Gore's video look very dumbed down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

It was much more hard-hitting than the glossed over stuff we see on mainstream media, and painted a very bleak picture. Whereas mainstream media says stuff like "Over the next 50-100 years....blah blah blah" (and of course who cares about that?), Home bluntly states that we must do something NOW, that we have less than 10 years to avert major planetary changes that will radically affect us all.

I was feeling pretty bummed and wondering why I had subjected myself to this seeming negativity when, suddenly, towards the end of the movie, it took a positive turn. It started talking about all the positive things that are happening...the eco-city in Denmark, the windmill farms in the US, the acres and acres of huge solar panels in deserts...and WOW!!! There are many people out there who are DOING THINGS!

The movie ended on a very hopeful note, and I was brought to tears!

I was overcome with joy and appreciation for what others are doing to heal and restore our beautiful planet. And I realized that all is as it should be, in the present moment. I had to admit, that during that time I was campaigning for Ron Paul, the only issue I disagreed with him on was the environmental issue. He seemed to think that it would work itself out and was loathe to have any sort of govt. intervention. I am now glad that Obama is our president, because he seems much more aware of and concerned about global warming, and seems to be championing a shift towards green and renewable resources.

I no longer see the idea of a 'new world order' as the boogie man. A planetary govt. can be either STS or STO. Clearly, a tyrannical planetary machine would be STS...that's what they apparently have on STS planets, right? But why do so many people fear this? Why are they so freaked out about it? Well, methinks, because they know on some level that such planets DO exist...but they are gripped by fear, the very thing that could attract such a scenario, at least for them, if not collectively. We all go to the place we are the most comfortable, right? Perhaps that bleak scenario is being manifested, for those who choose it.

In contrast, look at the model presented in Star Trek: Countries ceased to exist long ago, in favor of a planetary govt. system that was, in the case of the Federation, GOOD. Is this not a crude model for an SMC?

The structure is being laid. That structure could be used for STS or STO. It's not about who's president. It's about US and what WE decide! Our collective choices determine whether our leaders further peace or initiate more barbarism. If we don't like what our leaders are doing, we must look at ourselves and see what is being reflected out into the outer world. It's not about whether Obama is a good guy or a bad guy. I now see him as a good guy. What do you see?

[Sirius]

Lovely post!

I would answer your closing question, I try to not see him at all.

What your post details is what I learnt from reading Hidden_Hand. Alex Jones & co are providing STS power with giving them fear, the more people they make scared of a NWO, the quicker it will manifest. I used to be really into all of the conspiracy media, and in a way I think it serves as a sort of awakening for some, for those who still hold thier materialist values. It's been over a year now since I have actually read something about politics and felt that I had to know. Following your thoughts of conspiracy and trying to be a positive entity are two things which cant mix. So I just stopped caring about politics. From my perception they dont make such a direct interfereance, so I was at liberty still, to be able to choose to ignor it. After all there are MANY thing on this planet which are negative, it is the nature of the planet, to be in duality.

What I concentrate on is what is actually happening in MY reality, the actual manifestations in relation to me. My 'inner circle' is a very bright place, take a step outside of it however, I would just be reminded of the bad things in this place. Part of the way I have learnt to learn about myself is to cut out a lot of the outside world. Evidently this approach has it flaws, but it works for me at this moment in time.

The reason I don't attempt to change my ideas of Obama or any conspiracies is in short fear still. I'm not going to build up my perception of something which lacks foundations. The higher we build him up, if/when he falls, the higher he is, the more it hurts. It is for that I don't let him have any presendence in my reality.

Your star trek example is spot on, and I have had the same thought, with the same example since I was little. But as we all know is true to TLOO this cannot happen until everybody/majority are polarised. Weather or not 2012 holds any substance, this will happen in 2012 or thereafter.

*I have never put these thoughts into words, and it is proving difficult, but im trying!*

Why I'm so distressed about the whole issue, is it's continuity. The people who have not 'awakened' to this greater reality still suck it in, and for those who are awake but are making it positive just like David W, I really do not want to see these people get hurt for being wrong. In this arena, being wrong is a heavy blow.

I used to consider myself clairvoyant, I had a Spirit community that I was in common contact with. I realised that something was wrong, and this brought doubt into every orifice of my beleifs. The way I look at it, I'm still clawing back to where I was.

For the sake of 'argument' :
I sincerely doubt Obama wrote that speach. and after all they are words. As you said don't judge until you see his actions. He has not made any real world changing actions the way I can see it.
The feeling of positivity you felt as Obama was voted in was real, but misplaced. MILLIONS rejoiced with his election, after all he's the first black president, which is a change within itself, a beacon of hope for a lot of people. All of his promises he has made about his country he has not forfilled. The misplaced joy was in responce to his lies. by giving him such a place, if he did do ONE thing which was obviusly negative, the high fall for all of his supporters is inevitable.

I have learnt a lot for just writing this post, about how fear does have a place in my life when it shoulden't, but the way I look at it, I know where not to look for Joy and Love. Obama is just one of them.

Ali - I am not saying the ecconomy is Obamas fault, It is nobodies fault, but if we must point the finger point it at the federal reserve, those who Obama is giving extra powers to make sure they know who to blame next time. ie giving them more power to do worse in shorter time.

SMC? In other words? Don't know what they mean

I have poured out a lot of thoughts and feelings here, I'm not sure where the trail has lead, but I hope that you can understand my view point on such aspects of this planet. Collectivly as a planets population we could make good things manifest through him, but unfortunately we are nowhere near such unity to make this happen.

Ron Paul 2012 might bring about that polarizing moment

Love and Light to all, including Obama who needs as much as we can give.

[Monica]

Lovely post!

Thanks!

I would answer your closing question, I try to not see him at all.

Hmmm...ok.

What your post details is what I learnt from reading Hidden_Hand. Alex Jones & co are providing STS power with giving them fear, the more people they make scared of a NWO, the quicker it will manifest.

Agreed.

I used to be really into all of the conspiracy media, and in a way I think it serves as a sort of awakening for some, for those who still hold thier materialist values. It's been over a year now since I have actually read something about politics and felt that I had to know. Following your thoughts of conspiracy and trying to be a positive entity are two things which cant mix. So I just stopped caring about politics. From my perception they dont make such a direct interfereance, so I was at liberty still, to be able to choose to ignor it. After all there are MANY thing on this planet which are negative, it is the nature of the planet, to be in duality.

I think we each have to find our own balance. You're right that there are many negative things, and we can't single-handedly address them all. But if we feel drawn to a particular cause, then there is value in our pursuing it, as long as we can do so in a constructive way, rather than succumbing to fear about it. I personally was very involved in politics last year, but now am not, but can't say that I won't be in the future.

What I concentrate on is what is actually happening in MY reality, the actual manifestations in relation to me. My 'inner circle' is a very bright place, take a step outside of it however, I would just be reminded of the bad things in this place. Part of the way I have learnt to learn about myself is to cut out a lot of the outside world. Evidently this approach has it flaws, but it works for me at this moment in time.

I don't go looking for stuff, but when it penetrates my circle, I don't want to cut it out. I'd rather transmute it, if possible. I don't see how I could see the outside world as truly 'outside' if we're all one. Yet, neither do I want to dwell in the dark places that on this planet. It's rather paradoxical.

The reason I don't attempt to change my ideas of Obama or any conspiracies is in short fear still. I'm not going to build up my perception of something which lacks foundations. The higher we build him up, if/when he falls, the higher he is, the more it hurts. It is for that I don't let him have any presendence in my reality.

Do you believe we can affect one another? Do you believe we mirror one another? Do you believe we create our realities?

I'm not saying to put Obama on a pedestal. I don't think it's a good idea to ever do that with anyone.

Why I'm so distressed about the whole issue, is it's continuity. The people who have not 'awakened' to this greater reality still suck it in, and for those who are awake but are making it positive just like David W, I really do not want to see these people get hurt for being wrong. In this arena, being wrong is a heavy blow.

That's precisely why I do feel it's important to do what we can to wake people up. As for those who have a vested interest in a certain outcome, well, that's always risky.

I used to consider myself clairvoyant, I had a Spirit community that I was in common contact with. I realised that something was wrong, and this brought doubt into every orifice of my beleifs. The way I look at it, I'm still clawing back to where I was.

I think I understand what you went thru. I too have had my beliefs completely dismantled, more than once! I no longer see it as a negative thing, but as making room for new ideas and growth. Sometimes we have to empty our cup.

For the sake of 'argument' :
I sincerely doubt Obama wrote that speach. and after all they are words. As you said don't judge until you see his actions. He has not made any real world changing actions the way I can see it.

I'm not referring to any single speech but to the many times I've seen him speak, including times that were unscripted. I disagree that he hasn't had any world-changing actions. I consider reaching out to the rest of the world with respect and diplomacy a huge positive action!

The feeling of positivity you felt as Obama was voted in was real, but misplaced. MILLIONS rejoiced with his election, after all he's the first black president, which is a change within itself, a beacon of hope for a lot of people. All of his promises he has made about his country he has not forfilled. The misplaced joy was in responce to his lies. by giving him such a place, if he did do ONE thing which was obviusly negative, the high fall for all of his supporters is inevitable.

Respectfully, I disagree. But I don't really want to discuss politics in depth here, aside from its Law of One application. Thank you for your comments!

I have learnt a lot for just writing this post, about how fear does have a place in my life when it shoulden't, but the way I look at it, I know where not to look for Joy and Love. Obama is just one of them.

Ra said to see the Creator in one another, and to find the love in the present moment. Why would you want to exclude anyone from that?

SMC? In other words? Don't know what they mean

Oops, sorry. SMC=Social Memory Comples. In other words=In other words.

I have poured out a lot of thoughts and feelings here, I'm not sure where the trail has lead, but I hope that you can understand my view point on such aspects of this planet. Collectivly as a planets population we could make good things manifest through him, but unfortunately we are nowhere near such unity to make this happen.

We have to start someplace. We have to start somewhere. What better place than here, what better place than now?

Ron Paul 2012 might bring about that polarizing moment

Age will prohibit Ron Paul from running in 2012. His son Rand is already being groomed for a run at some point, not sure when. Even if Ron Paul did run, I don't think we can expect him to 'save' our country any more than we could expect Obama to. The point I was trying to convey in my previous post is that our leaders tend to REFLECT what we are ready to manifest, as opposed to doing it FOR us.

Love and Light to all, including Obama who needs as much as we can give.

Good to hear that!

[Sirius]

Methinks I might need to make my 'circle' bigger Recently I have actually been catching myself thinking that "Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible. " is a very long way away. Catching myself with these thoughts, I know that it isn't helping, so I figure it's time I really started this polarizing business. I mean I try to be nice as often as posible, but these are not thoughts of polarization if you know what I mean?

Thinking about it a political leader MUST reflect what we want otherwise the people would riot and get them taken out of office. Unfortunately people from the UK don't seem to think protests and riots don't work anymore. I think the closest thing we get are train strikes a couple of times a year, and that means it costs nearly double what it did a few years ago -_-

[Monica]

...a political leader MUST reflect what we want otherwise the people would riot and get them taken out of office.

That sure didn't work in Iran.

I disagree that the political leader reflects the will of the people, as far as conscious will. Most of the US disapproved of our last 'leader' and there was much question about the legitimacy of his election both times. Exactly what happened in Iran, except Iran was much more blatant. Here, people just complained on youtube videos and nothing ever got done and probably couldn't have been proven anyway.

What I meant by 'reflecting the people' is their true, subconscious, karmic projections of will. Very few people consciously wanted GWB by the end of his term, but, on some level, he was, apparently, exactly what we all manifested. My whole point about Obama was that his election represented a conscious shift in people's wills. Whether Obama turns out to be a good guy or not, a shift in consciousness has already been set in motion, and future leaders will increasingly reflect that, especially as we transition to 4D. Manifestation will become more rapid and transparent.

We are in the transition but we aren't quite there yet. That's why, imo, there is still so much doubt about Obama. Ironically, the shoe's on the other foot now - Obama haters are circulating the same complaints about him that Bush haters did about Bush. Which I find amusing, because, imo, he's so drastically different from Bush.

It could be argued that that's just the way it is when the other political party takes over. But I think it's something far deeper than that. I think it wouldn't matter if Gandhi himself were elected president - there would still be those who would hate him (as before).

At least until the consciousness is raised to the degree that we could have that one fine, strong moment of inspiration!

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Wow, long post Monica, and good debate (as it's kept to Law of One rather than political discussion).

I don't think discussion of politics should be totally off the table, because it is, obviously, part of life on Earth. There are plenty of other forums in which people debate politics ad nauseum. It would be a waste to do that here. But if we discuss the political machinations and how they affect us from the lens of the Law of One, then maybe we can get some clues as to how to deal with them in a positive way that's in alignment with Law of One principles.

I know what you mean about fears, especially the insidious ones which are cleverly slipped into our consciousness. I went through some very powerful and scary times for a few years, letting go of various fears by 'being put' in situations where I had to face them. Of course it was me who created the situations, or brought them to me, but good grief did I go through the mill! I had some friends about four or five years ago who were very much wanderers and spiritual seekers, but they'd been into David Icke and other conspiracy theorists for a long time, and were really very paranoid, living in constant fear of mind control, government aircraft spraying toxic chemicals onto cities, etc. You name it, they feared it. In fact, I don't think it'd be unfair to say that anything people came up with which was anti-government and anti-military, no matter how ludicrous it was, they'd sign-up at once by default!

I agree and wow, me too! I really had to face some deep fears and it wasn't fun. Having gone thru it, it can help us to be more compassionate as we see our friends go thru it. So many of them are so caught up in their manifestation of fear that they don't even realize that they have anything to do with it at all. There's a pervasive victim consciousness. You're right: They see everything, everything as a conspiracy!

I'm generalizing here and speaking only of the more extreme cases, not all people who believe in some conspiracies. I believe there are some conspiracies, and I know I don't like getting lumped in with the 'conspiracy theorist' stereotype so I don't want to perpetuate that. So I will clarify that I speak only of those who have fallen so deeply into the rabbit hole that they think the rabbit hole is the entire reality, and have lost sight of the larger reality. How deep does the rabbit hole go? as they say. Well, it goes very deep indeed! But, it's still just a hole, a small chunk of real estate on this huge, beautiful planet! I say to them, "Get out of the rabbit hole and get some fresh air and sunshine - it'll do ya good."

I told one friend, "Do you honestly believe that every cold, flu, or hurricane that comes around is artificially created/manipulated? Think about that. Are you honestly saying that those things never happen naturally anymore?"

Those who dwell in the rabbit hole have given away their power. They think the power elite totally runs the show, and they are mere puppets, victims. I think they give the bad guys waaaaaay too much credit! I tell them, "Do you really think the power elite has it all wrapped up that tightly?" but unfortunately, yes, that is exactly what they think! They think everything that happens, no matter how small or insignificant, is all part of the 'master plan.'

I say hogwash to that! That's not taking into account the mixed polarity of most people, even some who might be considered 'power elite.' We know better than to assume that even the 'bad guys' are all totally STS. They're struggling to polarize too, remember? And not even Hitler, the meanest and baddest of them all, made it. Harvest to 4D negative is no small feat. It's a very difficult task. Meanwhile, as they struggle, it is the very nature of STS to fight amongst themselves. It's a dog-eat-dog world they live in. They can't possibly have it all wrapped up, because they're so busy double-crossing one another.

Add to the mix the projections of everyone else. STS 'power elite' don't have a monopoly on manifestation!! We are all contributing to the collective reality. It completely goes against the very principles of the Law of One to think that the STS entities control everyone else. It's so blatantly against Law of One principles that I wonder how I ever fell for it, even momentarily.

You're so right when you say that letting go of our own fears is what we must do. As I've said before, my feeling is that when enough have done that, we'll hit the tipping over point into a new level of being. It's coming, just not tomorrow at 4pm.

Agreed!

[fairyfarmgirl]

Discussing polarization and transmutation of the planet does nothing to assist. This is a love in action action that is required. Be Peace. Be Joy. Be truth. Be love. Instill Compassion in your minds and the Wisdom in your hearts... mix the two and circulate the energies to synthesize to compassionate wisdom.

fairyfarmgirl

[xlsander]

I have been to the new world conference in zürich last weekend - guys it was really awesome!

I will tell more if any of you is interested to hear more

[Sirius]

absolutely! I would be interested even if 'it does nothing to assist'
Maybe make a new thread? I see tumbleweeds

________@___

[AlexKawajima]

absolutely! I would be interested even if 'it does nothing to assist'
Maybe make a new thread? I see tumbleweeds

________@___

I was pretty glad to have been able to attend his 2 - 3 hour lecture in LA at the Conscious Life Expo. It was a really great event. I would have ended up getting his other lecture, but I actually had purchased the 7 hour David Icke lecture before and did not have much money.

I kinda wished I would have attended David Wilcock's other lecture the next day, but I ended up going to the beach in Venice and it was really rainy and quite nice actually. I spoke with him a little bit and found him to be a pretty fun and enlightening person. We had a slight conversation about blackmetal/death metal/Heavy Metal music and whether or not it is not positive for an awakened individual like myself on a path to something better, but he did have some other commitments to get to, so we did not get to finish the conversation.

I am sure that the knowledge lies within, but I find myself confused sometimes in my life in all its occasional wierdness, but I have no doubit that sick music (sick being uber awesome) will surely remain awesome,...hopefully not straying too far off from this subject.

[BrownEye]

I haven't made it completely through this thread. Just figured I throw my 2 cents in. I came across Wilcock about 5 years ago when I was researching Edgar Cayce archives and something turned me away instantly. Recently the LOO had completely attracted me and i've branched out to a few other sources of interest in trying to get specific answers. I've circled back to the Wilcock information again and have been reading up a bit. It strikes me as very strange how much he talks about himself rather than just the message. I've spent about 5 days now reading his stuff and i've been kind of "wow" all the while feeling something wrong. This morning while reading more I just kind of felt like I was being moved away from the source of "feeling good" that came from the LOO and a few other sources.

Has anyone else had this happen? It seems like he has this self verification thing going and almost like he brags about his abilities. Just made me feel like I was being steered away from my search.

[Sirius]

I think it would be those feelings which made me create this thread in the first place.

One thing is for sure, he is at least in part a crazy stargate fan

He did have some useful things, like the montauk project and such things, and like you, I had also gone past the david W, LOO included, and then circled back to them later

[Monica]

We had a slight conversation about blackmetal/death metal/Heavy Metal music and whether or not it is not positive for an awakened individual like myself on a path to something better, but he did have some other commitments to get to, so we did not get to finish the conversation.

I am sure that the knowledge lies within, but I find myself confused sometimes in my life in all its occasional wierdness, but I have no doubit that sick music (sick being uber awesome) will surely remain awesome,...hopefully not straying too far off from this subject.

I too had a conversation with DW about heavy metal music (in its various genres). There is another thread already devoted to the topic of metal music's effects upon our spiritual path. I'll dig it up and post the link so we can discuss it more on that thread.

[airwaves]

Umm... My favourite band are Type O Negative. Does that mean I'll go to hell, at least with a couple of gorgeous Goth babes..? I hope so!

There is no hell my friend. Feel free to live as you wish!

[BrownEye]

I have a few Type 0 albums. All of the Primus albums. I like most of the grunge music but for the last 5 years mostly listen to ICP. Don't know how I came around to liking them when I hated their sound at first. Must be the power of the dark side ha.

BTW if you like Type 0 Negative have you listened to Theater of Tragedy? I think thats the name, the vocals are awesome.

[airwaves]

On a more serious note, and certainly for another thread... What do you think fantasies of power and 'dark' stuff are really about? I mean, 'having control over your world' is a rather obvious psychological, erm, thingy, but personally I think there's more to it than that. There's something very attractive about being a super-hero and leaping from tall buildings, especially dressed in black and with a Gothic soundtrack cranked up really loud. Where did all that come from..? Is it only a modern invention, do you think..?

Well, in 4d, along with unconditional love(witch i have a great yearning for right now being that my catalysts have spiked to an extreme lately) we will have the super-hero powers so to speak. In fact upon entering 4d among the first things I will do after having mastered my powers is jump off a very high place. In a couple of months, once I have all of this "catalyst" under control, (fingers crossed) I plan to go sky diving. My dear wandering brother tells me that it is exhilarating, and I'll take his word on anything so it is worth a try.

As for the snozberries Mr.. I got that quote from the movie Supertroopers; definately watch it if you get a chance. I chose it as my sig after a discusion about psychedelics in another thread.

I personally prefer eating them before during or after a mentally straining task such as saving my brothers marriage, preventing a friend from committing suicide, or somethng else of that nature. (errrrg my life is a movie)

Lol That has to be the dirtiest thing I have ever said on this web site in retro spec. Snozberry is a euphamism for penis, Ewwwwww amirite?

Love an peace my friends

[airwaves]

Haha Airwaves! And ewwwww, from me at least. Being a straight guy, snozberry is definitely something on my 'NOT to do list'. (God, this thread is SO going to get booted into the forum hell...)

I have this dirty little tendency of knocking threads so far off topic that most people just get disgusted and stop posting in them. It is less common here, but I get my kicks off of trolling around like a 12yo all jacked up on mnt-dew.

[ayadew]

I have a few Type 0 albums. All of the Primus albums. I like most of the grunge music but for the last 5 years mostly listen to ICP. Don't know how I came around to liking them when I hated their sound at first. Must be the power of the dark side ha.

By the way if you like Type 0 Negative have you listened to Theater of Tragedy? I think thats the name, the vocals are awesome.

ToT has varied quality I think, Aegis was great, and their latest (storm) is also fantastic with songs such as Fade and Storm.

Really, I never pictured we'd speak about ToT in a David Wilcox thread!

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Doesn't take 4th density to have super powers.. I encourage you to try lucid dreaming. The only super powers I can see about 4th density is the pure knowledge one will recieve with a consciousness which senses isn't limited to a rock in space.