apologising and empathy

[Ankh]

You answered your own question :¬)

You were a different person, spiritually, mentally and physically (literally, the way you think determines the neurological structure of your brain).

You can forgive yourself, just as easily as forgiving another self, for actions in the past. There is a simple test for this. Ask yourself this...

If the same situation arose again, right now, would I act differently?

If it's a yes, you've used the earlier catalyst, processed it, learned and grown from it. That learning tells you, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that you have changed for the better. You are a different person.

You can forgive the older self, it's not who you are now. Forgive, that 'other self', and live in the moment with love and integrity.

Dear brother,

Never thought of it like that.

I thank you most deeply!

Love and light!

[3DMonkey]

Has any one mentioned this?

The idea of feeling guilty after yelling at someone, or at the least, feeling the difficulty in apology is a clear example of how hurting others actually hurts your self. The other self being yelled at is in control of their hurt received. Their own capacity for acceptance determines their level of pain, and even then if pain is felt its because they don't accept being yelled at. The pain felt by the yeller toward providing apology and the pain felt as guilt is the same struggle of acceptance that prompted the angry yelling to begin with. The apology becomes more beneficial to balance the apologizer than the perceived victim of the fiasco.

[Ocean]

come again?

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these paradoxes hurt my head.

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when you ascend, what happens to your personality? what happens to your passions? do you still love the same things and the same way if you want to?

[yossarian]

your passions? do you still love the same things and the same way if you want to?

It depends where you go when you ascend, but the generally accepted answer is "Yes"

You'll still resemble yourself and your generalized interests will resemble your current self, but be adapted to fit the new environment.

If you go to a 6D environment, you may be almost unrecognizable due to the nature of the new environment being so different from the current environment.

But 4D is some what similar to Earth, the main modification seeming to be an increased social harmony and increased "paranormal" abilities.

[Ocean]

you know what? i love myself. if i'm so afraid of losing unique self i must love myself a whole lot. not in a narcissistic way of course. but as a valid part of the world. i always love people from afar and never imagine i am on the same level. as worthy. i feel like once they see my gunk they will reject me. but i do love myself, even if everyone else rejects me, i see the good in me, the unique value in me. all this self confidence bull doesn't matter. it's all about pride. true humility is not caring about that stuff because you know everyone is a diamond and if there's gunk on the surface, that's just gunk. why am i so focused on my gunk? isn't the real me. it isn't the real anybody. it's so obvious there's a diamond underneath and that's what matters. with everybody. maybe next time i can think of that when i think i see gunk and just see past it to the good stuff and remember diamonds shouldn't yell at diamonds. i will try.

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i hope you're right yossarian. i do still want to be me.

[3DMonkey]

do you still love the same things and the same way if you want to?

You see, Yossarian, I say no. I think nothing is like we see it now. I think when its over, we carry all of it with us, but we don't identify ourselves with it.

An odd example is my thumb. It loved being a thumb, and loved all the things about existing as a thumb. It had accomplished great feats in its existence. When it joined with me, its existence joined with the rest of its Self. Its memories, likes and dislikes became part of the consciousness that is me the whole person. My thumb enjoyed its independence before joining, and now its up to me to recognize that little part of me, which I don't do. The part loses its identity into the greater consciousness and is subjected to my purpose. Its not the thumb it once was.

I'm like the pre-me, independent thumb right now. When I move on I will join with the overall me, and operate as a smaller part of the whole.

[Ocean]

how do you now what your thumb thinks? i don't think harmony means borg cube. it means we're all intune with each other and love so freely we move as one. intuitively in a synchronistic flow.

[3DMonkey]

LOL. I asked it...

I mean, we talk about electricity with polarization talk. We talk about evolution with dna talk. In my vision, I liken the further realms similar to the way cells work in the body. The body moves in an intuitive flow. The tiniest particles in the body mimic the vastness of space. If I am made up thousands of my own incarnations, this incarnation is a drop in the ocean my experiences surrender to.
This incarnation has a purpose. The purpose is not my own. I do not perceive my life fully. My perception is veiled as a tool for a purpose I can not see. I am not here for me. I am here for the Logos.

[yossarian]

you know what? i love myself. if i'm so afraid of losing unique self i must love myself a whole lot. not in a narcissistic way of course. but as a valid part of the world. i always love people from afar and never imagine i am on the same level. as worthy. i feel like once they see my gunk they will reject me. but i do love myself, even if everyone else rejects me, i see the good in me, the unique value in me. all this self confidence bull doesn't matter. it's all about pride. true humility is not caring about that stuff because you know everyone is a diamond and if there's gunk on the surface, that's just gunk. why am i so focused on my gunk? isn't the real me. it isn't the real anybody. it's so obvious there's a diamond underneath and that's what matters. with everybody. maybe next time i can think of that when i think i see gunk and just see past it to the good stuff and remember diamonds shouldn't yell at diamonds. i will try.

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i hope you're right yossarian. i do still want to be me.

gunk is holy.

the gunk is ok, we all have gunk, and we're all slowly learning to accept both our gunk and other's gunk.

I know you have gunk. Everyone has gunk. Know what though? I'm ok with your gunk. You gunk may make me cringe, but that's just my gunk.

It's okay to have your gunk. You have a right to your gunk. As far as I'm concerned, your gunk is beautiful, and your virtue is beautiful, and I want you to choose what to do with both your gunk and your virtue and I wouldn't have it any other way. (Even if it means choosing not to choose :] )Basically, I think the individual creative ability of yourself to have the gunk or not have it is itself beautiful.

Think of a character in a book or movie. The most beautiful characters are rarely the ones who are perfect in every way. They always have their gunk, and we can recognize their gunk and see it and experience the pain they feel due to their gunk, and we can even recoil and grimace when their gunk is revealed to us, but we still love them and we still empathize and we still go on the journey with them.

Choose to keep your gunk or don't choose it... I will see your lifestory as beautiful either way.

You won't lose your self. I'm a firm believer in the idea that nothing is ever truly lost. You will change in ways you wish to change but the old self will still be observable and lovable, in your memories, in your visions, in time-space, or whatever. It never really goes away. You can always bring it back if you choose it.

Learning to see the beauty in gunk really goes a long way to seeing the creator in everything. The gunk itself is beautiful and it's also beautiful when people choose to polish off the gunk and turn it into diamond. The whole process is beautiful, like any good story. The hero always has an arc. And the more I get to know about people's arcs in great detail the more every arc is unique and amazing and suprising, while at the same time every arc has deep commonalities.

Anyway embrace your arc and don't despair over your gunk. It's grist for the mill, as Carla says, and it gives your story drama. Without a dragon to slay the story is not nearly as exciting.

---

LOL. I asked it...

I mean, we talk about electricity with polarization talk. We talk about evolution with dna talk. In my vision, I liken the further realms similar to the way cells work in the body. The body moves in an intuitive flow. The tiniest particles in the body mimic the vastness of space. If I am made up thousands of my own incarnations, this incarnation is a drop in the ocean my experiences surrender to.
This incarnation has a purpose. The purpose is not my own. I do not perceive my life fully. My perception is veiled as a tool for a purpose I can not see. I am not here for me. I am here for the Logos.

Well, you are the logos, and your cup will pour back into that ocean eventually.

But you're also yourself. I think most souls have unique patterns, designs, filigrees, that echo throughout their entire journey up the densities.

So in 3D you're an auto mechanic who loves cars, and in 4D this love develops into a love for working on UFOs. Or maybe it takes a totally different turn and develops into a love for studying the locomotive ability of 4D insects or something.

I'm just saying there's a common theme that binds each soul to itself throughout the densities. It's not like you wake up tomorrow and now you're Elvis, a totally different person, it's more like you're yourself with a twist, with a good twist, an appealing twist that satisfies you on some level even if not on an obvious conscious level.

Often when I get pessimistic and down on my life circumstances I reach a point in meditation where it seems like I have a creative choice and the choice is: It's my life, if I don't like the Earth I can leave. And then as soon as the choice presents itself I realize that.... no... despite the suffering I do want to be here... this does satisfy me on some deep level... it's still myself and it's an aspect of myself but i'm just not always conscious of it.

Then a month later maybe I'm back down in the dumps cursing the universe for putting me in the gutter or whatever, but my point is just that there is some kind of theme here, some kind of uniqueness that binds all the experiences together and ultimately it's toward a deep satisfaction on some infinite level.

Anyway 3Dmonkey I like your statements about other realms, I just think yours are sort of like a refined version of what I'm saying, whereas my ideas are more generalized. I am emphasizing the cosmic infinite similarity between self and self and you are emphasizing the cosmic difference - I see both similarities and differences but perhaps right now my mind prefers to see the similarities.

In any case one thing I'm deeply convinced of is that nothing is lost, and so there is no need to fear loss. Once you overcome some negative tendency you always have the option to put it on again.. typically when you do this though it just helps you rediscover that your first choice was indeed your preferred choice. Or maybe sometimes you don't, but that's fine too. Why not?

[Ocean]

thank you yossarian, that was beautiful. and in movies i always love the gunk! how funny.

[turtledude23]

more on empathy.

someone said in the density thread that seeing earthquakes people care, but um, i feel nothing watching earthquakes and floods and stuff. i just think another catastrophe. i think i decided a long time ago it does no good to feel bad for everybody cuz then i'd be rolling in pain all day. what's the appropriate response? i don't get it. sometimes i feel really cold. :/ clearly it's awful for the people there and if i was there i'd care but i have no frame of reference for what an earthquake is like. i guess i just can't imagine it. meh. what is empathy? if they say worry does no good, doesn't empathy cause worry? i'm so confused. i know we should not worry and just send love and prayers so i guess i should pray for japan more. but i just don't get why i never feel anything when others do. and when others don't i do. i cried watching anne frank's diary, and i though at the end of it so many people went through that i can't possible watch all their stories. i can't cry for them all. i remember thinking about war on TV that i can't feel anything for those people.

Empathy is opening the heart to another; to understand their circumstances and to offer support.

Do not judge yourself by your reactions to what you see on TV. It's different, years of TV makes many people desensitised to it. If the same thing happened on your doorstep, you might be surprised how you would react.

Abraham and Bashar give the advice that joining others in sorrow/grief only adds to the current circumstances. Lowering one's vibration from love to fear/pity, in the name of being 'empathic', is counter productive.

You may not instinctively burst out to tears in front of the news, what matters is what you consciously choose to do. Do you choose to keep the heart closed? Or do you choose to offer love, in any means you see necessary. These are the choices we make day by day.

We're in the Density of Choice. Choose consciously.

Thanks Namaste! I sometimes felt guilty about not feeling for the people I hear about in the news suffering, but its not as natural as me actually seeing it in person.

[Ankh]

I mean, we talk about electricity with polarization talk. We talk about evolution with dna talk. In my vision, I liken the further realms similar to the way cells work in the body. The body moves in an intuitive flow. The tiniest particles in the body mimic the vastness of space. If I am made up thousands of my own incarnations, this incarnation is a drop in the ocean my experiences surrender to.
This incarnation has a purpose. The purpose is not my own. I do not perceive my life fully. My perception is veiled as a tool for a purpose I can not see. I am not here for me. I am here for the Logos.

See, and you wonder whether you belong here or not, brother! These deep realizations is not something average joe would go ahead and come to conclusion to over a lunch break.

[Namaste]

Has any one mentioned this?

The idea of feeling guilty after yelling at someone, or at the least, feeling the difficulty in apology is a clear example of how hurting others actually hurts your self. The other self being yelled at is in control of their hurt received. Their own capacity for acceptance determines their level of pain, and even then if pain is felt its because they don't accept being yelled at. The pain felt by the yeller toward providing apology and the pain felt as guilt is the same struggle of acceptance that prompted the angry yelling to begin with. The apology becomes more beneficial to balance the apologizer than the perceived victim of the fiasco.

I mean, we talk about electricity with polarization talk. We talk about evolution with dna talk. In my vision, I liken the further realms similar to the way cells work in the body. The body moves in an intuitive flow. The tiniest particles in the body mimic the vastness of space. If I am made up thousands of my own incarnations, this incarnation is a drop in the ocean my experiences surrender to.
This incarnation has a purpose. The purpose is not my own. I do not perceive my life fully. My perception is veiled as a tool for a purpose I can not see. I am not here for me. I am here for the Logos.

Very insightful notions, 3DM. I agree with Ankh entirely :¬)

turtledude: You're welcome brother.

[kycahi]

I had a very nice, astrology-loving female housemate when the 9/11 catastrophe happened. It affected her deeply and she took offense when I made a lame joke along the lines of "Two weeks ago NASA sent up that [whatever] and now this. Don't tell me they aren't related!" She absolutely couldn't hear that joke and told me how wrong I was to make fun during those tragic times.

To me, humor is always okay and anyway, we were in CA and couldn't go and help dig in Ground Zero. Is she right or am I? Of course we both are micro distortions of the One and therefore both okay.

I watched the horror unfold with fascination and concern but, as Ocean correctly said, no point in gnashing teeth and worrying. Worry is never productive. If you fear a calamity then plan for it. Otherwise, see what you can do to help others while keeping a clear and calm mind.

On this topic, I encourage everyone to be social, and I don't mean on these fora or on facebook. Be around people that are interesting and interact with them. I'm a true introvert, but I get out of my shell when I volunteer for a film festival or writers conference; I have conversations with strangers and pour on the respect even before I know them much. This is so rewarding I can't begin to describe it. There I deal with mostly strangers (friends I haven't met yet, per Will Rogers), I can be whoever I want to be with no prior expectation in their minds. It's so liberating and self-improving. How can you not improve the person that you are when you stretch your outward self?

[Ocean]

people are guilted into feeling bad when they see stuff happen, like wars and stuff, then they gotta wait 20 years to laugh at it. like the south park episode. i think there's a balance. if you feel the humor is ok, and you're not actually glad someone is hurt, then what does it matter? you'll find the wisdom to know if you're doing something bad there. of course if someone is affected it's not good sense to tell them in front of them.

[turtledude23]

people are guilted into feeling bad when they see stuff happen, like wars and stuff, then they gotta wait 20 years to laugh at it. like the south park episode. i think there's a balance. if you feel the humor is ok, and you're not actually glad someone is hurt, then what does it matter? you'll find the wisdom to know if you're doing something bad there. of course if someone is affected it's not good sense to tell them in front of them.

I have a theory that its okay to laugh at something you know is wrong and that you wouldn't do. For instance if I had my way there'd be no wars or nuclear power, these problems exist despite my opposition to them, so why should I expected to feel bad in a particular moment about something I must've felt bad about at some point already?

[Ankh]

she took offense when I made a lame joke along the lines of "Two weeks ago NASA sent up that [whatever] and now this. Don't tell me they aren't related!" She absolutely couldn't hear that joke and told me how wrong I was to make fun during those tragic times.

To me, humor is always okay and anyway

I love to make jokes. I would love to make jokes about everything, but I don't think it's a appropriate though, not here, being veiled and everything. Ususally I just think in jokes and answer in the manner that seem appropriate to the situation. Don't know if it's good or bad, it's just not completely "me" in that answer as I hold back what I am really thinking. It specially applies in situations of sensitive nature, like quakes and 9/11.

[3DMonkey]

Express joy if you are joyful. Awareness of the listener's response is wise. Your joke, kyachi, doesn't sound hurtful. (doesn't sound funny, but oh well hehe )

Some people like to hide insults in jokes. Like "you are officially gay...... I'm being sarcastic!". Mister Blank, you might save that joke for someone you know well enough to find the humor in it.