Wanderers that are "karmically involved"

[Phoenix]

So, I had a friend for about a two years in lockdown. We spoke everyday and went out with each other once or twice a week. In the heirarchy of Wanderers I believe myself to be a fifth density wanderer and I believed her to be a sixth density Wanderer. When I spent time with her she did have an endless emotional depth and she was struggling with really dark stuff. She had some sort of mental disorder, perhaps a physical brain disorder, that stopped her sleeping sometimes and she had severe clinical depression. She had seen psychiatrists and all that and nothing helped.


She committed suicide on Saturday evening. She jumped off a famous UK spot that is very successful for that kind of endeavor and one wonders why it is still open to the public without any particular attempt to prevent the huge amount of suicides there (Beachy Head).


It strikes me based on that that there would be quite a lot of wanderers potentially that would be karmically involved in a similar way. The Law of One clearly lists that suicide includes 'a dedication to third density for the renewed lessons of the higher self', session 69.6. Since lockdown suicides have gone up in some places by about 400% and this number would include wanderers I think. Does this mean that if some of our number, as wanderers, are going to become karmically involved and have to return that we will all in some manner by tied to the third density after the harvest? Am I going to come back in perhaps a society less under siege and be her friend again?

[Phoenix]

I read your Wanderer story. I see that you have a musical background. Your choice to write a song about what you feel you have lost. The words or notes will come to you. Playback this song and listen to it. Your guides are with you. Let go and grow. Peace be with you.

My story was 7 years ago in 2015 and at the time, I was still holding an innaccurate view of my past which was what has lead to a lot of problems in my life. It has been quite a destructive whirlwind since. For instance, I found out the reason that a lot of things had not worked out socially is that people had intentionally made sure of it in my life. This kind of thing obviously changes my perspective. Even though I am very much inclined to music the reason I thought I should be doing music was likely partly due to social ostracism. If you hang around people and are never invited out then you end up creating the viewpoint you were guided to be alone. Which was never true.


I am not likely to make music for a while anyway. Although I did feel good and a more positive perspective when doing some pentatonics. I am finding dream interpretation very informative. It seems to me, as I gleaned from my interpretations. That her behaviour was not without spite. I saw recently woman recently releasing a chemical weapon and it destroying a party where a lot of music as being played. I have also seen reptilians in dreams recently.

[J.W.]

My heart goes out to your friend and you,

Please do not feel alone in this situation, as myself and others have experienced it.

This moment is for you, and your friend,

We loves you, and we care.

I do hope the community Stewardess circle can provide resources for you with mental health assistant in your area.
If not, please try to seek counseling with the recent event.

My background in the field does provide me with a scope of practice and insight, and any suicides are not without effects to other-self.

Be strong, you have no idea how strong you are.

Feel free to reach out if you feel incline,

I can communicate with you, and listen as another soul,
but I do want you to know that I can't provide professional services for many reasons.

This is something you should, and I strongly suggest seeking,
as someone that have read the Law of One, I hope in your seeking for a therapist, you can discern from those who listen from the heart, or their mind, or both.

Last but not least, I am not sure if you are the same "pheonix" from before? "evolving pheonix?"

if you are, please stay away from that pos that pull members off of this forums to join his "private club" and goes on and on about himself as being a "mentor" and "savior." Telling you to "merge" with his reality and shite.

His attitude and personality comes off as "heh, I know of this angel, or that angel" (if you know who I am talking about)

Focus on yourself, take care, and look towards the goodness in life,
Much love Pheonix

[Phoenix]

My heart goes out to your friend and you,

Please do not feel alone in this situation, as myself and others have experienced it.

This moment is for you, and your friend,

We loves you, and we care.

I do hope the community Stewardess circle can provide resources for you with mental health assistant in your area.
If not, please try to seek counseling with the recent event.

My background in the field does provide me with a scope of practice and insight, and any suicides are not without effects to other-self.

Be strong, you have no idea how strong you are.

Feel free to reach out if you feel incline,

I can communicate with you, and listen as another soul,
but I do want you to know that I can't provide professional services for many reasons.

This is something you should, and I strongly suggest seeking,
as someone that have read the Law of One, I hope in your seeking for a therapist, you can discern from those who listen from the heart, or their mind, or both.

Last but not least, I am not sure if you are the same "pheonix" from before? "evolving pheonix?"

if you are, please stay away from that pos that pull members off of this forums to join his "private club" and goes on and on about himself as being a "mentor" and "savior." Telling you to "merge" with his reality and shite. 

His attitude and personality comes off as "heh, I know of this angel, or that angel" (if you know who I am talking about)   

Focus on yourself, take care, and look towards the goodness in life,
Much love Pheonix

I have never gone by the name 'Evolving Phoenix'. Or asked anyone to join a private club. I was on the site before amongst great disharmony but if you joined in 2020 that was before your time. My last posts are from 2015. Obviously there has been time to mature in this period.


I have a therapist (Partly from all the crap she put me through, she lied a great deal at the end, made up a whole web of confusion), also dream interpretation and I am now heavily Christian. The reason for posting was actually the question I posted not really looking for that kind of personal help from this site. Since there is not much that can modify for the moment what I am sure will be a long grieving process.


In the midst of this though that is a genuine personal insight of mine which I did think was interesting. We are pretty close to the harvest by what most people believe. The girl will probably not be able to incarnate and change her behaviour before the next 5 or 10 years when Harvest is supposed to happen. The statements from the Law of One are that Wanderers cannot leave third density if they are karmically involved. (12.28). One of the things that made me think the spirits would always keep her out of this was that she is a Wanderer, although this assumption was not completely conscious. In a way I am kind of mapping out what my potential future will hold in other lives. Imagining what it will be like to be in another life and have us be friends. But it may very well be that things do not work out like that for some reason.


I imagine my higher self, which I would be fused with upon harvest, would not hold a grudge against her. If I was to think personally that I do not want to come back for her choice, my higher self and us as beings "up there", I am sure would simply make the loving choice and I would be back. Especially if she regretted the friendship, that we would have had after this point, that we have now missed.


If she was able to harvest I may see her in a couple of years I suppose but that isn't the case on a strict reading of the LOO and it is also not particularly clear what the harvest will actually look like.

[Spiritualchaos]

Here are all the quotes I could dig up, I'll let you decide what resonates with you. I am truly sorry for your loss. ❤

Q’uo - April 14, 2021
I am Q’uo, and I’m aware of the query, my brother. We find in examining the population of so-called wanderers upon your planet, that it is a relatively small percentage of these individuals who become aware of their nature as a wanderer, and an even smaller percentage who then are able to utilize this awareness to refine their seeking and their service. However, we find in examining the remaining population of these individuals—those wanderers who remain relatively unaware or perhaps semi-aware of their nature—that indeed, there are many of these individuals who yet are able to serve and offer the love and the light of the Creator to this planet as they had intended prior to incarnation.

We believe that it is not necessary to fully grasp this nature. And indeed, in some ways, it was not expected by the self to fully understand and come to terms with this true nature of the self but instead to awaken to the biases and the distortions brought with the wanderer through the veil of forgetting. For the wanderer who has not awakened to their true nature, they may yet still sense that nature in an indistinct way and still feel called to perform the mission. And in some cases this lack of awakening to the nature of their wandererhood serves to allow them to integrate more fully within your society and your cultures and allow their true nature as the Creator to shine even more brightly.

However, we do believe it is true that for a wanderer to awaken to their true nature, to integrate this knowledge successfully and with humility, and to explore this aspect of their experience, the potential for such a wanderer is immense and rarely tapped by those so-called unawakened wanderers.

Speaking to the questioner’s mention of the dangerous aspects of incarnating into the third density as a wanderer, we do find that it is more common for those unaware wanderers to, in their confusion, generate what you might call karma or act in ways that then perpetuate their need to continue incarnating in the third density in order to balance that which was imbalanced. Though, we would like to offer comfort to those who may feel concern for these individuals, for such a journey is not a delay, it is not a sidetrack, but instead is another thread woven into the grand tapestry of that individual’s journey from and to the Creator.

We understand that from your perspective within the third density that continuing in such metaphorical darkness might seem as an extension of a form of punishment or imprisonment, but we encourage you to consider the point of view from outside of your veil of forgetting in which experience within the third density is a true gift that may have a great and enduring benefit for the individual on their own spiritual journey.

Q'uo - May 18, 2005

T
I believe I am a wanderer from the sixth density. Can you confirm this for me? Please comment on penetrating the veil of forgetting.

Q’uo
We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We can indeed confirm that you are a wanderer from the sixth density. As to the veil of forgetting, we realize that there are many entities who upon awakening wish to penetrate the veil of forgetting and to discover more about the journey that they have taken up until this incarnation.

For our part, my brother, we are reluctant to encourage you to penetrate this veil. We believe that in many cases there is a permeability to the veil that comes by stages and we feel that it is helpful and healthy for this to occur as long as it occurs naturally, that is, within the context of your process of seeking and discerning what you would call your way forward at this time.

We have found that in many cases when entities penetrate the veil of forgetting and discover one or more of their past incarnations, these entities then pull themselves back into the patterns of those incarnations to some extent, and that they tend to explain things about their present incarnation in terms of the dynamics of past incarnations. We find this to be somewhat deleterious to the progression of evolvement of your spirit because you move into the pattern that has already been explored in the past life rather than staying carefully within the present moment and the present incarnational experience.

We may share with you our opinion that you do not have adhering catalyst, or what this instrument would call karma, coming into this incarnational experience. The people with whom you have agreements in this life are not entities with whom the agreements are concerned with past-life balance. Your agreements all have to do with serving together or learning from each other within this present incarnation.

If you begin to receive bleed-through memories, especially within the dreaming, then you will know that your higher self has seen fit to begin informing you concerning experiences that you have had in past experiences of incarnation. And you can then ask yourself how this information might be helpful in grasping a current situation or in observing a certain pattern of thought that you have observed about yourself and are attempting to penetrate so that you may evolve as a spirit.

The spiritual principles involved in any wanderer’s entry into incarnation are those principles involved with service to others. It is for that reason that wanderers seek incarnation within planet Earth at this time. You have had the distinct and clear perception that you can make a difference in this lifetime. After the incarnation begins, it is much more difficult to have that clear vision that you had before incarnation concerning the nature of your service. As we said earlier, it is very easy for it to seem, to one within incarnation, that service has to do with what one does. And indeed, the outer services are wonderful and create a substantial gift to the one infinite Creator. Yet, my brother, the heart of your service is in the nature of your beingness.

We ask you to consider penetrating to the very center of who you are within incarnation as that goal to which you may bend every effort and serve with the greatest of joy and the feeling of peace that comes with knowing that you are on the right track. Let the being that you are being be your main concern, for as you refine and simplify your concept of who you are, as you breathe in the air and breath it back out and focus on essence, you will find that all of those things that you need in order to express a doingness will come to you very naturally, as if drawn to you magnetically.

[Spaced]

I can only offer speculation as there are no definitive answers to questions like this, from my perspective.

As I understand it, social memory complexes form a sort of gestalt made up of individual entities. Spiritual growth takes place on an individual level, supported by the collective seeking of the social memory complex. The choice to wander is something undertaken by individual entities, and the consequences are theirs alone. One member of a social memory complex becoming karmically involved would not necessarily mean other members of that social memory complex would also become karmically involved and have to remain in third density. In fact, the majority of the social memory complex would likely have remained in their home density. When the entity does eventually make harvest, maybe they may become part of the new social memory complex formed or perhaps they would return to their original complex.

That said, while the consequences may belong to the individual, they offer catalyst to others who may become karmically involved as well. It's good to remember that according to Ra the alleviation of karma lies in forgiveness.

I would also caution getting too attached to ideas about the harvest and when or how it will occur, as this can serve as distraction from the life we are living in the present. 

I'm truly sorry for your loss. As you go through the grieving process be kind to yourself, and if the emotions are too big to handle alone, please reach out to someone. The universe is infinite, and I'm sure you and your friend will be reunited at some point in the great dance of life, though you will be wearing different masks.

[Spaced]

Speaking to the questioner’s mention of the dangerous aspects of incarnating into the third density as a wanderer, we do find that it is more common for those unaware wanderers to, in their confusion, generate what you might call karma or act in ways that then perpetuate their need to continue incarnating in the third density in order to balance that which was imbalanced. Though, we would like to offer comfort to those who may feel concern for these individuals, for such a journey is not a delay, it is not a sidetrack, but instead is another thread woven into the grand tapestry of that individual’s journey from and to the Creator.

We understand that from your perspective within the third density that continuing in such metaphorical darkness might seem as an extension of a form of punishment or imprisonment, but we encourage you to consider the point of view from outside of your veil of forgetting in which experience within the third density is a true gift that may have a great and enduring benefit for the individual on their own spiritual journey.

This is beautifully expressed, thanks for sharing.

[Phoenix]

Thankyou spaced. Although I only acknowledge your point about not getting too attached to the harvest grudgingly.


Like I said I was a very close friend to this girl and I was very helpful in her mental health I think. A big part of this is that I refused to sleep with her so the relationship remained healthy with none of the compulsive attachments that she tended to get with men. She did tend to throw herself at men which would have sabotaged my friendship with her.


Her and my cousin connected on the pretext of helping each other with mental health since they are both suicidal and then started sleeping with each other. I tried to stay in contact with her but now she was sleeping with my cousin despite me putting a lot of energy into trying to arrange things with both of them they both basically rejected any further friendship and she made up a lot of lies in order to assure me she was OK, these were flat out abusive, pretending behaviours of mine that were nice and caring were somehow abusive. Because obviously I tried to stay in contact with her as I was worried about her.


Then, a few weeks down the line without me as a friend, and not having any other friends (she had lied about that to me, saying she had a lot of supportive friends now lockdown was over), when she had a dark turn she only had my cousin to turn to and they were in a sexual relationship, so not a relationship of mutual support. Then, in a state of being trapped with her own demons she went to Beachy Head. Also, her guilt at how she treated me may have been an element. But of course, this is mostly just educated guesswork.


Obviously, I did not like my cousin much anyway. He has seemed more and more STS recently and he uses a lot of emotional blackmail/ abuse on people. So even though I pray everyday, 'forgiveness' in this instance is going to likely be eclipsed by the need to stay away from him and to keep anyone additional I come into contact with away from him. I hope if I am quite Christian and am aware of dream interpretation and such I will adequately receive the guidance given to me and conduct myself well against this level of "karmic maelstrom", but it seems to me as though it is all getting rather intense.

[Sacred Fool]

Your story touches me far more deeply than most I read here, Phoenix.  I recognise both the sense of deep connection and of deep loss. 

So, what now?  Personally, I would advocate for drilling in more deeply to find the essence of self.  If you can find a way in, it's simply astounding what you can find there: so capacious, so expansive.

Q'uo - May 18, 2005

We ask you to consider penetrating to the very center of who you are within incarnation as that goal to which you may bend every effort and serve with the greatest of joy and the feeling of peace that comes with knowing that you are on the right track. Let the being that you are being be your main concern, for as you refine and simplify your concept of who you are, as you breathe in the air and breath it back out and focus on essence, you will find that all of those things that you need in order to express a doingness will come to you very naturally, as if drawn to you magnetically.

[J.W.]

@Pheonix,

Thank you for clarifying, yes, there is another member with similar name,

Just for context,
It came to my attention that there is an ex-member from the forum that targeted people in distress, and people who are intensely seeking for "answers."
After reading your story and with the username in question, I thought you could be targeted, or may have communicated with that individual.

This is something I've experienced on this forum before, and do want others to use discernment when receiving DM from someone that are inviting them to join a group. (Not everyone is like this, but again, please use caution)

Especially if you have shared something personal on the forum. From what I have gathered, this person and their group keep a close eye on the forum and read everything about others on here.

Most will approach with an open heart and compassion, as this is the nature of bring4th. But some will take advantage of this and use it for their own personal reason.

When I was approached, I knew who they were and the main guy is banned from bring4th. But the others are still members as they don't disseminate anything negative or "show" themselves.

Little did this person know is that I have experience in law enforcement, and medical/psychiatric. So I "joined" their conversations/emails, and tested the water.

All I can say is that one of the hallmark is getting you to feel like you are "birds of feather" and "like minded."
1st will come as a comment or two, then a private message.

I shared my experience with others on this thread:
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=19941

[J.W.]

On the other hand,

It is good to hear that you are being helped by a professional, I stand with both modalities of hard-science and spiritualism, as both are two-sides of the same coin. Especially if you follow Jungian's research.

As mentioned by Spaced, and Fool,

there is a definitive depth to this catalyst in your journey,

on top of being "safely guarded" from more chaos and discord, through the maelstrom, one can find peace, and an open heart in the face of a storm.

Please take care, and know that you are doing well, doing the best you can, and you cannot be responsible for the action of another person.

Within the complexity of all that has been disseminated in the Law of One, there is a simplicity that resonate through out the transcript,

which is to be free, from fear, and rejoice in the light.

[Phoenix]

Your story touches me far more deeply than most I read here, Phoenix.  I recognise both the sense of deep connection and of deep loss. 

So, what now?  Personally, I would advocate for drilling in more deeply to find the essence of self.  If you can find a way in, it's simply astounding what you can find there: so capacious, so expansive.

Q'uo - May 18, 2005

We ask you to consider penetrating to the very center of who you are within incarnation as that goal to which you may bend every effort and serve with the greatest of joy and the feeling of peace that comes with knowing that you are on the right track. Let the being that you are being be your main concern, for as you refine and simplify your concept of who you are, as you breathe in the air and breath it back out and focus on essence, you will find that all of those things that you need in order to express a doingness will come to you very naturally, as if drawn to you magnetically.

Yes, what now? Thankyou for asking.


I have felt very deeply before that this girl was part of my "soul group" so to speak. To give you an idea of this, when we met I found out her friendship group had been very close to my former best friend, he had sent her emails with his stories. This guy was one of those involved in the "social ostracism" I mentioned which seemed to be rampant in my twenties. Like everyone I met almost. It is uncomfortable to consider that you had someone be part of your soul group and then they killed themselves. So I am not sure where I go from here from that perspective. Like, can I have friends that I really connect with or is this just not that likely? Would I even want them? Will I even be able to connect after a friendship like this that ended like this? During lockdown we were each others only friends.


Also though, the girl screwed me, she treated me badly, she could have written to me and confessed all rather than going to Beachy Head but in every way she gave up on me. When I remember specific things in relation to this behaviour from them both, how I was suddenly left with no friends at a time of illness after all I had done for her, (I did not expect to see her as frequently necessarily, but I feel she owed me honesty about why her behaviour suddenly became so hostile, this really messed me up). When I remember this I do not feel that bad about her and I feel a sense of 'good riddance'. My grief has come down in intensity quite a lot since then and I feel good about meeting and chatting with other people. Less grief stricken.


In general there are two basic points:


-) My faith in Christianity and my trust my life will grow positively. Hopefully I will find new friends. I have not even the slightest emotional desire or "pull of the magnet" to revisit and befriend any of the people, including my cousin, connected with this girl.


-) I do not have any particular problem with telling people the truth of what happened (but I won't volunteer it either, I know how to play the game), and if my cousin feels like jumping off a cliff too because he can't take scrutiny on his own disgusting behaviour, then best of luck to him.


-) In general I feel that we are kind of very stuck in society at the moment. From a political perspective with everything going on. Prices are rising and there are less and less options and more and more misery. In making my life plans it is difficult. Many times I have wanted to move forward with skills to increase employment but this is yet another example of having yet another personal crisis stop me from being able to do that kind of thing. Since 2015 I was unemployed, then I got a job in a fast food place, then I was bullied badly in an office for two years, two more years in an unpleasant fast food place, then had a bunch of friends turn on me (the best friend I mentioned earlier, and my half sister at this time), then another fast food place, then a sudden illness that had me down for six weeks recently, now this friend committing suicide. So efforts I might have to improve my skills and such. I just never seem to find the time past a personal crisis.


So I am kind of hoping for a shift of the mass arrests sort of variety. Then things can take on their own momentum without me having to direct myself a great deal. Like I sort of alluded to I think in this thread I am starting to feel like the spirits are allowing all this to get too close to the bone and we are taking too many losses. If we had the mass arrests six months ago that friend of mine would still be alive, and people wouldn't be dropping dead for SADS and myocarditis etc.


-) I may post on this forum occasionally.

[J.W.]

@ Pheonix,

please do, and please try to find the balance of who/what to blame in the upcoming catalysts.

I have mentioned in another post about members keep putting out information on who to "blame" with the world's situation.

This is great and all, but in the long run, it could lead to resentment because there is a "target" for people who are suffering.

But no, people will post after post after post about who to blame for covid, vaccine, and all the sts agendas...

There are other facets like non-profit that are mobilizing to help and aid current catastrophe and future ones, I hope more of that will be posted.

so we can the heart open, offer some for of service to others and find understanding, compassion in all.

forgiveness is important in this, at least from what I can see and sensed.

[Phoenix]

On the other hand,

It is good to hear that you are being helped by a professional, I stand with both modalities of hard-science and spiritualism, as both are two-sides of the same coin. Especially if you follow Jungian's research.

As mentioned by Spaced, and Fool,

there is a definitive depth to this catalyst in your journey,

on top of being "safely guarded" from more chaos and discord, through the maelstrom, one can find peace, and an open heart in the face of a storm.

Please take care, and know that you are doing well, doing the best you can, and you cannot be responsible for the action of another person.

Within the complexity of all that has been disseminated in the Law of One, there is a simplicity that resonate through out the transcript,

which is to be free, from fear, and rejoice in the light.

Hello JW, you have written three posts and since I answered the other post apparently a few seconds after you posted those two, I nearly missed all three.


Yeah, that other guy did not sound like me but in relation to my past exploits here I would understand if people were to get a bit jittery with me posting. It was quite an intense story.


I like your line there about not being responsible for the actions of another. There was so much she did that was self destructive and that I could not change. Despite every time she did confide in me something I performed well, I talked to her in a way that helped. She kept a great deal concealed from me which was a huge part of her mental disturbance.


I considered with interest your posts and I saw your other posts on what the LOO called 'Transcient' material. I used to be heavily addicted to conspiracy, heavily. I really understood what that meant as I came off it and I looked into the psychology of "trauma bonding" which is what it does to a person. However, even so I do not think it is as cut and dry as just barring all material of a political nature. I have got really weird synchronicities that correlate with the Q material in my dreams, and some elements of our society that do relate to the positive and negative can be usefully discussed I think. It is harder to polarise in a state of poverty as an example, or when not having a lot of time due to work responsibilities. Or, I found it interesting recently when I read an article that said women are overwhelmingly more left than men and overwhelmingly the biggest supporters of the suppression of free speech. Certainly that gives us material to consider that might relate to deeper patterns I believe.


Sometimes overengaging in too much abstraction like these forums are devoted to can be a bit maddening and some real world news might be important.

[J.W.]

@ Pheonix,

No worries!

and not at all, I don't know much of your past on here or the exploits you speak of. It was just something that came to mind from recent experience, and also the similar screen name made me think you were someone that was coerced by the leader of that group I was talking about.

But it is irrelevant now,   

My primary concerns was that someone who experienced a suicide from a close relationship are statistically more susceptible to some sort of guilt, and that could lead to self-harm.

For the situation you are dealing with, the least I can say is that... From a clinical perspective, almost all suicide victims, or the ones that survived.
Will always say that they were not in the "right" mind set when it happened.

From a scientific point of view, (without the spiritual talk.) Your brain, the chemical in it, and hormone plays tremendous roles in a person's behavior, choices and action. This could be affected by medication, environmental, and/or situational.

Law enforcement, Soldiers and ems all goes through a "debrief" and break when exposed to some sort of trauma, in order to deal with the prolong effect of it. As blunt as I can put it, this is purely chemicals in the brain, and it is not just something one can "yoga" and "Law of One" it away.

There is something about spiritual communities that sometime in my opinion causes more problems than good. (Perhaps due to the lack of wisdom)

One example that I go back to that we both are familiar about is Don's suicide. Through my training, I often thought and wonder if the three of them (Carla, Don and Jim) took some Psy. classes, and/or trained just a tiny bit in mental health. Then that tragedy could have been prevented.

There were so many "not-to" that led up to Don's death, for example, you simply don't call the cops to drag someone to a mental hospital. Cops, especially back then aren't train to deal with unstable patients.

This became a great lesson for Carla in a way as she stated in the Epilogue 

Any group that stays together and works harmoniously while being of service to the light will begin to attract psychic greeting of the sorts we experienced. In this crucible, every fault and vanity, however small, is a weapon against the self. Ethical perception needs to remain very alert and cogent of issues and values being tossed around. This is a matter of life and death.

This is not just with "any group." It is actually "anyone" that light the beacon must be vigilant as it attracts the moths faster than you can say "oh Sh.."  

I tried to raise this aspect and also questioned the current L/L Research with this lesson as they are moving towards the mainstream platform,
always been curious about how they feel if someone killed themselves after reading the forced marketized version of the materials. 

Your story, was more than just a person who is dealing with loss and grief. 
But it speaks to a larger problem as more and more people that are looking for spiritual "answers" over professional help. 

Something that I feel ethically conflicting. I wonder if l/l will pay for the therapies of people that could be affected negatively from the materials. 

Other than that,
Since you've said a professional therapist is taking care of you, then I am a bit relieved to hear.

In regard with the other post about conspiracy theories, 
I am not sure I 100% get your point here. There are a mixture of LOO materials, your experience, your understanding with scientific psychology, society, poverty and polarization, gender and political geographic differences, and among other topics. 

I considered with interest your posts and I saw your other posts on what the LOO called 'Transcient' material. I used to be heavily addicted to conspiracy, heavily. I really understood what that meant as I came off it and I looked into the psychology of "trauma bonding" which is what it does to a person. However, even so I do not think it is as cut and dry as just barring all material of a political nature. I have got really weird synchronicities that correlate with the Q material in my dreams, and some elements of our society that do relate to the positive and negative can be usefully discussed I think. It is harder to polarise in a state of poverty as an example, or when not having a lot of time due to work responsibilities. Or, I found it interesting recently when I read an article that said women are overwhelmingly more left than men and overwhelmingly the biggest supporters of the suppression of free speech. Certainly that gives us material to consider that might relate to deeper patterns I believe.



Sometimes overengaging in too much abstraction like these forums are devoted to can be a bit maddening and some real world news might be important.

Having too many inlets of "information" can be maddening, and I suggest if you are trying to understand psychology then sticking to scholars and peers reviewed research that has academic credential are much more accurate. Doctorate or master's level education often warns about staying away from "news" outlets and "he say, she say" because it muddle proven research and medical procedure. 

The forums is huge, but I don't think it is fair to say what is too much or too little for someone to engage in. 

When I used to write 20 papers per week for my schooling, some thought it was "insane." Some thought it was not enough. 

To me, it was neither, everyone has their limits. 

Gotta go, with love, and I sincerely do hope you feel better and work things out with your therapist about your friend, 

please take care

[Phoenix]

I looked through the Law of One quote on death.


It strikes me that one of the things very often repeated is 'Bodies will die of third density necessity' During Harvest.


Another source of this kind of information in my opinion is a new astrology system called the Human Design Chart. Whose founder changed his name to Ra Uru Hu. In their system a new type of person will start to be born after 2027 called 'The Raves'. Which will be just unbelievably psychic. What I think will happen is that the raves will be around and regular people will be around until they die of old age.


So I will probably not see her physically for the rest of this incarnation, but the amount of psychic abilities that will be unlocked in the next few years reveals that I will be told directly what is going on with her.

[ada]

This brings such sadness, I was in tears when reading this.
I am so sorry for you and your friend, and cannot imagine what it is like to go through something like that. I hope that you are comforted by others and not remain entirely alone in dealing with this.

[Diana]

I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend, Phoenix, and to hear how troubled she was, and for your own struggles not just dealing with her suicide, but with life in general.

I have felt very deeply before that this girl was part of my "soul group" so to speak. To give you an idea of this, when we met I found out her friendship group had been very close to my former best friend, he had sent her emails with his stories. This guy was one of those involved in the "social ostracism" I mentioned which seemed to be rampant in my twenties. Like everyone I met almost. It is uncomfortable to consider that you had someone be part of your soul group and then they killed themselves. So I am not sure where I go from here from that perspective. Like, can I have friends that I really connect with or is this just not that likely? Would I even want them? Will I even be able to connect after a friendship like this that ended like this? During lockdown we were each others only friends.

I agree with Spaced's ideas on SMCs and the individuals within one. We shift and change and regroup, our paths merge and diverge, but that does not mean we are ever disconnected from anyone or anything.

My brother took his life so I understand the depth and complexity of such circumstances. In my mind, whether one is a wanderer or Earth native or other configuration of incarnation here, and whatever lead to such a decision and act, it is heartbreaking to experience in any capacity of the scenario. But one thing that I feel might be considered is that another person's decisions can be respected—even a decision and act of such finality and seriousness as suicide. What I mean by this is accepting a decision made by another as theirs; that we cannot know the entirety of what lead to it; that we also accept our loss and go through first the grief then the pain which may always be there to a certain extent, but that does not have to be seen as a "bad" thing, because it just is. 

In my case, and I am not saying I know anything more than anyone one else, though my brother died many years ago time has not made anything go away; rather, I accept the pain and loss and that I miss him endlessly and I continue here with this experience. I don't question his decision to end his life because it was not my decision to make nor can I ever know the full story that was his journey and path; I can only accept what he did and who he was and honor those things. The catalyst of the loss is what I am left with then, and the memories and the gift of him in my life when he was here.

Also though, the girl screwed me, she treated me badly, she could have written to me and confessed all rather than going to Beachy Head but in every way she gave up on me. When I remember specific things in relation to this behaviour from them both, how I was suddenly left with no friends at a time of illness after all I had done for her, (I did not expect to see her as frequently necessarily, but I feel she owed me honesty about why her behaviour suddenly became so hostile, this really messed me up). When I remember this I do not feel that bad about her and I feel a sense of 'good riddance'. My grief has come down in intensity quite a lot since then and I feel good about meeting and chatting with other people. Less grief stricken.

This is very sad. I'm very sorry for all you are going through. I am also very very sad for your friend, and what she must have been going through. This world is full of suffering, and we all experience it to varying degrees. We all deal with it in different ways. 

In general I feel that we are kind of very stuck in society at the moment. From a political perspective with everything going on. Prices are rising and there are less and less options and more and more misery. In making my life plans it is difficult. Many times I have wanted to move forward with skills to increase employment but this is yet another example of having yet another personal crisis stop me from being able to do that kind of thing. Since 2015 I was unemployed, then I got a job in a fast food place, then I was bullied badly in an office for two years, two more years in an unpleasant fast food place, then had a bunch of friends turn on me (the best friend I mentioned earlier, and my half sister at this time), then another fast food place, then a sudden illness that had me down for six weeks recently, now this friend committing suicide. So efforts I might have to improve my skills and such. I just never seem to find the time past a personal crisis.

I have a friend whose life could be described above in slightly different details. This "hamster wheel" manifests I think in many lives including my own, where conflicts between survival vs. self-expression, dreams and purpose keep people in loops. It's difficult to deal with and can seem hopeless. One thing I have found that helps me is to have small successes and accomplishments. What I mean by that is whatever the general circumstances, I aim for getting even small things done such as completing a website revision, cleaning the house, getting something done in the yard. For me completing even a small project shifts the focus to success instead of frustration (at least in the moment). The underlying survival issues may still be there, but the balance of blocks and challenges with forward motion can be shifted a little, which changes the overall picture. 

So I am kind of hoping for a shift of the mass arrests sort of variety. Then things can take on their own momentum without me having to direct myself a great deal. Like I sort of alluded to I think in this thread I am starting to feel like the spirits are allowing all this to get too close to the bone and we are taking too many losses. If we had the mass arrests six months ago that friend of mine would still be alive, and people wouldn't be dropping dead for SADS and myocarditis etc.

The last two years of lockdowns and other results of the pandemic (whatever it really was) have certainly raised many questions about the way the human world operates. Things must come out into the light for them to be seen and examined, so in one way all of the suffering caused by the world's reaction (personal, societally, politically, and spiritually) may be a step in the right direction. It is very sad and there is a lot of rage about the injustice in the world and this is understandable. 

I agree with Scared Fool that drilling down into self is a good focus. Ultimately, in my opinion, it is perhaps all we can do.

[tadeus]

Phoenix this is a really sad story and i feel with you.

The conditions of going back to the own density of a wanderer are not really clear.
I don't think that a wanderer have to be harvested again, because his origin is already a higher density.

The question of being karmically involved is much more complicated.
Specially under the conditions of the veil.
But i think a suicide cannot be interpreted as being karmically involved, because it pertains the own incarnation only.
When it is done by the strong will to go back to the own density, i will hope that there will not remain any task that needs more incarnations.

[Diana]

There is a great thread here stuck at the top of Spiritual Development and Metaphysical Matters for International Helpline Resources, in case anyone needs it (whether for self or others):

International Helpline Resource

[3-24-2022]

So she passed on June 11, 2022

I have a technique of keeping specific dates recorded to see if the date reappears, or if something significant happens on the anniversary or same day that it happened.

That place you mentioned Beachy Head is unique I never heard of it but am aware of several other places where people jump to end their lives. I think the reason they do not try to do more to prevent people from jumping is because the unfortunate truth is that people will simply find a way if they want a way out, and it would be too expensive to try to demolish or block off that zone. It does look like there are therapists that patrol the area to try to talk people out of it based on some research I did.

I think it is difficult for me to relate to being devastated by romantic relationships because I've never had one, and when I read comments on the internet hating on "incels" or reading about men upset over their relationships ending, I think of the number of holy men throughout history who were celibate and unmarried as an ideal goal, or like the speculation about Isaac Newton dying a virgin because he wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship while hes known for pioneering our understanding of the nature of light and physics. I figure with the pandemic, it is even more difficult to get people out of their own imagined ideals of what people need to look and behave like.

I say this because I bet there are a lot of angry people who feel unaccepted because they don't have relationships while I don't relate to being angry over not being seen as a "super hot guy" (meaning they like the way you look so much omg)... I just ignore people who don't like me. There is more to life than having a girlfriend, which might sound callous but what do you say to all the guys that have difficulty getting girlfriends?

I think it is important to accept your circumstances. It is not your fault. The alternative to this attitude for anything would be to just not accept your circumstances, which does not sound like a healthy attitude.

Also stories of suicide by certain famous people upon closer look such as Robin Williams turned out to happen because of severe pain from from injury or illness, not because they did not like being alive. I point out that those were examples of people with terminal illness doing it for the same reason an eldery dog would be euthanized, it was not because they did not want to live. I doubt they wanted people to copy their actions.

[IndigoSalvia]

I am reading this thread, and am not sure about what I can add. The discussion touches my heart.

The loss of another ... there is a departure between two beings, and these two paths may not cross again (in the physical), whether by accident, intent, death, etc.

For me, I often grieve over time. Big waves, and also little waves of grief (and all that masquerades as grief). Little things can remind me of another who is gone; these little reminders pop up randomly, and voila! catalyst. If I can, I look at whatever arises with loving curiosity.

[3-24-2022]

Well I have something to add to my previous comments

I don't like the phrase "feeling sorry for him" or something when it is meant in a condescending way.

Maybe some people don't care if people "feel sorry" about them because it is hot air, if you feel like making a difference for someone you give them help.

[Phoenix]

Thankyou Diana,


I had suspected what you said about the grief never ending. I am working from home this week, when I went into work on Monday I just went into the toilet and cried on my break. Full on crying like I have not experienced in this life to memory.


In general I have been looking and thinking of Mediums, but there is more to this. I think part of the reason that I have come back to the Law of One material is that it makes me massively psychic and I can feel a lot about the situation now that I couldn't feel before, since I have been rereading the Law of One. The LOO text itself also gives me insight into the situation. These psychic senses though are not what one would expect. They are not sweet and lovey - dovey.


It seems to me that the Law of One, session 69.6 does in fact state that Wanderers have to return. Also, what is being karmically involved? Session 12.29 offers clues and by the end her life was an absolute mess with a lot of people hurt.


I feel a bit pissed at the idea that there would be another set of incarnations on another planet in 75,000 years since as the Law of One stated, the fifth density wanderers are harvestable to the next density, so we are holding back on that in order to aid the sixth density entities here. I feel that my "wisdom" is at a kind of maddening level and it is time for me to go onto the next density, and it would be unusual if I were to make the choice to stay on another third density incarnation before that harvest. I imagine the relationship between my fifth density self and the sixth density on this planet at the moment is one where these things can be talked out and we almost always make sacrifices for each other. But I feel upset that is the case. I feel the things that we would be karmically forced to repeat are really not that important in the grand scheme of things so to come back just for that is ridiculous. It also strikes me slightly though a lot of us might have to repeat the density just because of the trauma. I see a suicide or vaccine complication (including death) on my twitter every day.


In general, like some of the responses here reflect though, there is very little that we can actually know. I do not know for sure that she will be able to harvest without incident because of some element that the LOO hasn't mentioned.


I know it seems a bit mad but I have a naturally suspicious way of viewing the world. All the people that have told me she is dead are very capable of lying, even habitual liars. I have not met the police or her mother and not been updated on funeral arrangements. I know that seems unlikely but it is part of how I am thinking.


I was not sleeping with her, I can't believe that is even an issue brought up here. I was very clear about what the boundaries are that I wanted to keep our connection a friendship. It was me keeping it in that place that allowed me to be an actual support to her since she once said to me that when she slept with people she became overemotional and the relationship escalated. She was very sexual she did kind of plead a bit for sex and who knows, if we had of had sex she may have stayed. I could have maybe offered sex with her on the condition she doesn't kill herself.


I find it very hard to accept that I should not know what has happened to her and not have answers to these questions. I am growing tired of the ridiculous limitations of some of the population living here that bars so much knowledge from the rest of us. As I said in accord with the Human Design Chart, whose founder changed his name to Ra Uru Hu, and which has a lot of signatures that link it in my opinion to the LOO. The raves of very psychic people will come in in 2027. It is not beyond the capacity of this society to create a system whereby a good understanding of these concepts can be explored with the aid of psychics and things right now.


I am thinking about mediums like I said. Obviously, one of the problems with mediums is charlatans and it seems to me, that if mediums were real they would not be allowed on the Mainstream media. But it is very possible there are those that would have a gift like that. If we lived in a healthy society like I said we should be able to determine which are lying and which are legitimate. But we do not. I have a Christian friend who does not want me to go to a medium and I have been thinking of the Law of Ones guidance where it said that there is the possibility of contact with a negative contact if importance is placed on specific information. A lot of these mediums drop very specific information. So obviously this is an element of it. With the Law of One as a good backbone, perhaps some investigation can be done?


Also, I remember a site that used to link to this one that discouraged psychics called 'Are you living in the light or dancing with the dark', saying that 95% of psychics are connected to demons. It also mentioned that your friends and family intuitively arrive at the right conclusions for free. Something that has come up a few times from those that seem to genuinely care about me is that sometimes people have a problem in their brain that means they are suffering invisibly and this was the case for her. She once said to me that when people try to convince her to not commit suicide it was because they are selfish because they did not understand how much she suffered.


The spirits have amazing ability at foresight so this must have been known when I first met her this is how it would go down!


I am also having a lot of dreams that are guiding me on it. These are EXTREMELY insightful, and I have the sensations I get while praying and things. There is also another element of not trying to get her perspective too much since she was a toxic person, and when she was alive I would not be in contact with her anyway. One of the things Buddhists say sometimes is that if someone dies they don't become a good person just like that. It would seem the case from an LOO perspective that if they are transferred into an indigo ray body temporarily than they would be a lot more saintly, but I feel it is the case that they are still messed up with some of the things they used to think while living. Healing isn't immediate and when healing something it often has to become the only thing we consciously think about for a while. So what I meant to say is perhaps my energy should go other positive things. Just because she's dead it is not clear that dynamic should change.

[Sacred Fool]

'Are you living in the light or dancing with the dark'

 
For me, this thread expressed much anguish around the archetype of The Choice.  There is a desire expressed to court the maiden, not just take advantage of her, but then this is "second guessed."  The desire is to have a more meaningful connection, but this is answered by feelings of betrayal.  The desire is to move to the heart, but what is gained is the crown of thorns.  Fulfillment is sought in love, but what is reflected back is distance, failure and emptiness. 

I'd say this is a very challenging courtship.  It's maybe not so easy to pick the love out from the fertiliser, nor to find the pathway to the heart from amongst the many avenues leading nowhere?  Even so, the heart is there, nearly in plain sight, oddly enough.  In fact, this fact is what makes the situation all the more poignant....like a parched wanderer in the desert so close to the source of water................

[ada]

Regarding the 75,000 years, if I may offer my thoughts and perhaps ease your mind a little, as I've also pondered about it many times over.

Firstly, "All is well". I think this is very important to keep in heart and mind as it holds much meaning.

Secondly, the reference to the grand cycle of 75,000 years, that it is roughly when an inhabited 3rd density planet undergoes a shift in vibration and allows a harvest for souls to graduate into a higher density.
This most likely happens everywhere, all the time. The thing to keep in mind is that each soul eventually will evolve into a higher density state, but only when the previous density is no longer needed, when there is nothing more for them to learn, through choice and service.

What I am trying to get at, is that there is no loss, it is not that one will be 'stuck' as if they missed an 'opportunity'. But rather that they will have more time, more space, to experience and learn what they seek until they are appropriately ready to leave the previous density behind.

The special thing about wanderers, and a 3rd density planet such as ours, I think, is that it allows a unique experience where souls from different densities can briefly meet, equally, and exchange in light and love.
This small service may affect those souls in an unimaginable way and help them in their seeking, so do not fret, you have left everything behind to incarnate into a veiled experience as you reach out your hand in love and kindness.


Lastly I will leave some quotes from the material that I think may be relevant:

1.1 Questioner: It seems members of the Confederation have a specific purpose. Is this true with you, and if so, what is your purpose?

Ra: I am Ra. We communicate now. We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.
We are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to your peoples. We have walked your earth. We have seen the faces of your peoples. This is not so with many of the entities of the Confederation. We found it was not efficacious. However, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One. We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times.
Does this give you enough information from which to extract our purpose, my brother?

1.7 Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.
That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.
In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
May we enunciate this law in more detail?

9.4 Questioner: The way I understand the process of evolution [of a] planetary population is that [a] population has a certain amount of time to progress. This is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. At the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. What caused this situation to come about… preciseness of the years, 25,000 years, etc.? What set this up to begin with?

Ra: I am Ra. Visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your Council of Saturn. Continue seeing the rhythm of this process. The living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. Each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. Thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. The timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.
This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.

20.27 Questioner: I will make this assumption, then: if maximum efficiency had been achieved in this 25,000-year period the entities would have polarized either toward service toward self or service to others, one or the other. This would have then made them harvestable at the end of that 25,000-year period to either service-to-self or service-to-others type of fourth density, in which case they would have had to move to another planet because this one would have been in third density for fifty more thousand years. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us untangle your assumption which is complex and correct in part.
The original desire is that entities seek and become one. If entities can do this in a moment, they may go forward in a moment, and, thus, were this to occur in a major cycle, indeed, the third-density planet would be vacated at the end of that cycle.
It is, however, more toward the median or mean, shall we say, of third-density developments throughout the one infinite universe that there be a small harvest after the first cycle; the remainder having significantly polarized, the second cycle having a much larger harvest; the remainder being even more significantly polarized, the third cycle culminating the process and the harvest being completed.

52.9 Questioner: Well, I would just include the question as to why time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.
The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.
There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.
The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher-density catalyst.
The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfectly balanced. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

[Sacred Fool]

The thing to keep in mind is that each soul eventually will evolve into a higher density state, but only when the previous density is no longer needed, when there is nothing more for them to learn, through choice and service.

 
Yes, and another way of putting this is that the opportunities to explore the basic lessons of acceptance and universal love are inexhaustible.  Therefore, there is no need to be uptight if you find that your heart is rarely opened to the extent where loving all beings becomes your primary affect, because all will come to fruition in due course.  When you think about it, even if it requires a few more lifetimes of distraction, selfish-centeredness and disappointment, such an outcome as becoming even a middling beacon of infinite love will be a wonderfully beautiful thing to become, don't you think?

[tadeus]

There is a great thread here stuck at the top of Spiritual Development and Metaphysical Matters for International Helpline Resources, in case anyone needs it (whether for self or others):

International Helpline Resource

This is a good idea Diana, because the people for this Helplines are trained specially when someone calls who is desparate and is suicidal.

I try to mention what will happen, when somebody calls and says that he is a wanderer and has incarnated on a planet he does not belong to?

[Phoenix]

'Are you living in the light or dancing with the dark'

 
For me, this thread expressed much anguish around the archetype of The Choice.  There is a desire expressed to court the maiden, not just take advantage of her, but then this is "second guessed."  The desire is to have a more meaningful connection, but this is answered by feelings of betrayal.  The desire is to move to the heart, but what is gained is the crown of thorns.  Fulfillment is sought in love, but what is reflected back is distance, failure and emptiness. 

I'd say this is a very challenging courtship.  It's maybe not so easy to pick the love out from the fertiliser, nor to find the pathway to the heart from amongst the many avenues leading nowhere?  Even so, the heart is there, nearly in plain sight, oddly enough.  In fact, this fact is what makes the situation all the more poignant....like a parched wanderer in the desert so close to the source of water................

Yes, that is very beautiful, I might write it in a notebook somewhere! It is also the archetype I have wondered about since I came off conspiracy and went over to dream interpretation while I knew her.


She also faced a similar choice in that she chose my cousin over me though, and maybe her experience in some ways was similar. Had she stayed a friend to me she would not have lied like she did. She chose my cousin. She was very like a maiden though in that there was a deep, deep femininity and vulnerability to her. She was a Pisces.


Since coming back to the Law of One, having the solitude of working from home and keeping up with the meditation. I have started to become more psychic and I feel like I am able to sense her sometimes in these meditations, and speak to her a little. This is also good is that I speak 'to' her. I have a dialogue which might not be the same with a medium. Of course I am not sure about this one completely and it may be more prudent to not trust such vague sensations. The benefit of the medium of course is that they would have experience in these realms.


I intuitively knew, it seems obvious to me, where to come to get some answers. I feel often the reason we can't get to the truth of things is because things we think up, answers we think up, and don't even realise, block everything that we might receive from the universe.


The funeral is next week.