LDS and Freemason {DEEP DIVE}

[J.W.]

I invite others to share your opinions, knowledge, and possibly insights on these two groups. The reason is because they are "interesting" to say the least, and people may find this topic to be insightful at the present, or in the future with their own seeking. 

1. Which group do you think is + or - ? how come?
   
2. How close do you think their teachings fall in line with the Ra materials? 
   
3. Do they come off to you as a "mini version" of Social-memory-complexes? 
   

Below are videos about the two entities:

LDS temple rituals leaked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VngM80qC...ewNameNoah

Haven't found one for freemasons yet, but they are similar, this video is interesting, but I wouldn't say it is accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsrFQs2L...l=Wondrium

A few things about the groups: 

• LDS wears all white. Freemasons wears mostly black.
  
• Freemasons doesn't tell you what to believe in, all members have different background/beliefs. LDS has strict rules and regulations, even the way you say your prayers can be dictated. 
  
• Freemasons has a common practice of renting a part of their building from their temple to the public. 
  
• LDS has "tithing" 10% of your income goes to the church, if you want to enter their temple, not just their wards. 
  
• Both groups has some sort of "sealing" system of within it's structure, meaning when you are in, you are in. If you leave, it's never good for your mental, or some cases physical. 
  

Additional thoughts to contemplate about is,

Do you feel that they both have +/- qualities ? 
Do you think that these are just hubs for catalysts to polarize? 

I understand that Ra materials uses The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which is somewhat tied to Freemason. 
Also Joseph Smith (the "prophet" of LDS) spoke against Freemason and said that they are a apostate religion. 

Please take this discussion with an open heart and with a open mind. 

thank you,

[J.W.]

An Ironic video that I forgot to add to the original post,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSNjnkwJ...-daySaints

[jafar]

1. Which group do you think is + or - ? how come?

Only by the fruit we will know and not by the tree.
Any group can be a mixture of + and - and can be dominant + or dominant -, and it's constantly changing through time.

Even within "Orion group" there are positive entities.
And negative entities can (and will eventually) evolve to become more positive.


2. How close do you think their teachings fall in line with the Ra materials?

Not close, if not 'far', any group which strive to maintain exclusivity and separation is not in line with the principle of "Law of One" which is unity.

The 'closest' in terms of Principle to the Ra's Law of One might be Yogic Philosophy. 
As by the name itself "Yoga" it actually means "Unify".
But relatively if it's between LDS and FM's declared principle, then FM is closer to unity, in declared principle.

This is the 'principle' as for the 'actual implementation by the actors' on the ground of course it will vary to a great degree.
There are even "Yogic Master" who promote "exclusivity", "cult worshipping' and "separation".
As mentioned, only by the fruit we will know and not by the tree.

3. Do they come off to you as a "mini version" of Social-memory-complexes?


The closest 'model' of SMC that is easily relatable to everyone is a group of people sharing their files, photos, videos on a cloud platform. 
Which now has been quite common.

Another similar 'model' is how people work together for a "free software", where free as in freedom not in free beer.
And this forum has greatly benefit from such collaborative work.
https://github.com/mybb

[Vasilisa]

You won't know about the organization until you're inside it. Abstract reasoning is unlikely to help here. And yes, the founders of the Golden Dawn were Freemasons, in particular Mathers and Westcott, they are also Rosicrucians of SRIA

[J.W.]

Thank you for the perspectives, and reasoning. Being in the groups themselves often don't give the "full picture" either. Members from both groups nowadays tends to carry it like a prestigious social status to boost ones ego, rather than having any middle ground with the philosophies or teaching itself.

I feel the abstract reasoning from folks who "listen" to Ra may have interesting sound to the song of creation.

All are bias, and all are distortions, but we listen to the beautiful song regardless.

Much light,

[Quincunx]

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[J.W.]

@J.W.

What do you hope to gain from any knowledge on this subject? Are you looking for something specific or are you just curious?

I feel my intention can be explain in 3 layers. 

[*]LDS and Freemason shares an interesting polarized relationship with each others. One can be seen as light/dark, dark/light, vice versa with the other. Although all of creation shares the dualism of both poles. I can meticulously study a rock or a pebble, and that would lead to a similar understanding. 
Having a discussion with others on the forums allow an expansion of perspective, and this strike at the core of "discussing," "sharing" knowledge and experiences with other-selves in the manner of service-to-others. Rather than "moving a boulder by yourself" analogy that Don gave Ra in one of the session. In short, as far as a "secret society" and a "public religious entity," these two are at the fore-front, allowing a wider discussion than the "very" secretive group, or the "very" common religions. 

[*]Bring4th forum, a creation of Carla is a product of unity, although it does have the bias towards STO, but the balance can be seen as it continues to grow. Same with lawofone.info, the implementation of light/dark/classic themes that were implemented not long ago seems to be an attempt to balance the "bias." 
The reason, I am bringing this up as an example is because it comes back to the core, and fundamental in all of existent and everything that everyone ever talks about, in all time/space, space/time. The contrast between, this, and that, and then together as one. If you look through the forums, every single thread shares this "pattern" ... I dare to say that it is the nature of the "beast," and/or the nature of the "creator" 
Hence, it is no different here. It is specific to a certain extent, but openly curious without specificity. 

[*]The last layer is simple, depends on how you view it. With out words, you and I, by merely observing world events, can see that "hmm, the final act seems to be unfolding." This draws us all into an internal observation of our "journey" not just in this incarnated life-time. 
It opens a window for the self to ask itself, "Do I know? is it really this way? or that way? do I ignore topics of discussion because I have already made up my mind about how my reality works? or do I know more/less than others, so I don't participate in talking about a certain subject." Regardless of how you view this, when you participate in a discussion, you either "know" "don't know" "care" and "don't care."Beneath all of that, your ... hmm ... "Spirit?" I would call it, for the lack of better word, has already made a choice. Now, "you" is exploring that "choice." This invite the self to re-examine, and "travel" back to the core, or the past of it's experience to fill in any gap that might have been missed due to ignorance, and/or arrogance. (again, these words of ignorance/arrogance are used for the lack of words to describe the distortion of "correcting" etc. etc. not a judgement to ones character.)

       Overall, the specific reason of why I start this thread and the questions I ask others are within the OP, and I don't allow myself to go further, leaving reservation for the freedom of curiosity for myself, and other-selves to explore. 

To answer your question, yes it is specific, and yes, it is just out of curiosity. Who knows, it could lead into something specific as we go, or just a general and interesting discussion. 

up down, up down, left right, left right, x, o, △, ⬜. Lol, 

With love,

[Quincunx]

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[aWanderer91]

While not responding to the original thread, I hope this is a constructive contribution.

I can't see how anything good can come from researching secret societies, they are secret for a reason, plus the outer layer certainly doesn't reveal the inner layers, where there are split offs and without being involved, things can become quite complicated.

Without naming specific secret societies, I have been around certain individuals who were involved with them, genuine service to self practitioners. And while I don't believe the secret societies that are known to the public are bad, there are inner circles involved with these where dark beings dwell. They are everything Ra describes, in terms of being hell bent on conquest and manipulation, and there is a genuine belief on there part that to enslave others is for the greater good.

I can only say that to be intrigued with secrets and what one potentially senses as darkness, is a very unwise decision, in my view

[Quincunx]

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[aWanderer91]

I can only stress the part where I said that to research secrets and "what one potentially senses as darkness". I meant these two to be intertwined.

Secrets are not bad, especially secret positive knowledge. Although Buddhism is widely available these days, a lot of the material is kept secret and it involves a lot of hidden magic and knowledge. The reason it is kept secret is for protection. Firstly, when most secret societies formed or knowledge was hidden away, it was to avoid persecution as many beings were killed or slandered for being involved with such things. Secondly, it is to avoid the hidden knowledge from being corrupted.

The Golden Dawn secret knowledge (I say secret, but you can buy a book of the whole curriculum on Amazon) allowed me to wake up and become aware of the black magic attack I was under. It also helped to invoke protection and begin to rid myself of dark energies.

So by secret, I don't mean it is unwise to research such things, but if darkness can be sensed or the information researched seems impure, I deem this very unwise to dive in to. What you are researching seems personal and practical, it differs far from what a secret societies overall motives are.

[J.W.]

@Quincunx Thank you for sharing your thought and project camelot, I can see why her recent stuff can become dangerous to others.

Speculation, he say, she say, and getting sucked into the abyss often times produce this "us vs them." This invoke the sense of separation and the reality of "unity" begins to minimize.

She somewhat reminds me of the individual I talked about in my other thread, where they start to become this "messiah" and "know it all" and start imposing their "will" on others, manipulating, forcing others to "bridge" with their reality etc. etc. Then setting on this crusade of "exposing" or "purging" the evil-doers on Earth where no Hollywood cinematic production can match. (Not saying she is at this caliber, but her content does make people start looking down their rifle scope)

Internally, that is when you dial in, and be reminded that you are here to make a choice. Serve that choice and know that you seek refuge within the infinite creator, beyond the pendulum of polarities.

Interesting stuff Quincunx, thanks again!

btw, not sure if you follow JRE, sadhguru did an interview with him recently about E.T. and I love the fact that at the end of that discussion, he humbly admit that he doesn't know a damn thing about it, and make no assumption. To me, this is a level of wisdom that "makes sense," and without going into the fearmongering territory that many E.T. chaser tends to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGE6Gc3...csofBharat

Even Don Elkins himself withheld a lot of bellicosity and treated their "companion" as part of the "chessboard."

[Quincunx]

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[J.W.]

While not responding to the original thread, I hope this is a constructive contribution.

I can't see how anything good can come from researching secret societies, they are secret for a reason, plus the outer layer certainly doesn't reveal the inner layers, where there are split offs and without being involved, things can become quite complicated.

Without naming specific secret societies, I have been around certain individuals who were involved with them, genuine service to self practitioners. And while I don't believe the secret societies that are known to the public are bad, there are inner circles involved with these where dark beings dwell. They are everything Ra describes, in terms of being hell bent on conquest and manipulation, and there is a genuine belief on there part that to enslave others is for the greater good.

I can only say that to be intrigued with secrets and what one potentially senses as darkness, is a very unwise decision, in my view

No worries at all, you are still talking about stuff that relates to op. 

That's the beauty of it, in the response I gave Quincunx about why I started this thread; It is an open minded discussion, with and without specificity. 
Like a dish we all share, you can add condiment to your portion as much as you like and make suggestions. But everyone are free to eat the way they like. 

The part I agree with you is when you said "in my view " 

Although, I must ask, and please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of your comments, as it is a bit confusing and contradicting to me. 

I can't see how anything good can come from researching secret societies, they are secret for a reason, plus the outer layer certainly doesn't reveal the inner layers, where there are split offs and without being involved, things can become quite complicated.

You feel that nothing is good from researching secret societies, but 

The Golden Dawn secret knowledge (I say secret, but you can buy a book of the whole curriculum on Amazon) allowed me to wake up and become aware of the black magic attack I was under. It also helped to invoke protection and begin to rid myself of dark energies.

I am curious, does this mean you are a member of the Hermetic order of the golden dawn? If not, doesn't this contradict the "outer layer doesn't revel inner layers" you said? 

The other thing is, if nothing good comes from researching, then how does one know that it "woke" them? and rid themselves of dark energies? 

In medicine for example, Morphine makes you feel real good, but it is not a "good" drug overtime. 

From outside looking in, this came off to me as you researched secret societies and their rituals, practiced it, gotten result you deemed as "good." 
But suggest that there are nothing good coming from researching secret societies. 

So by secret, I don't mean it is unwise to research such things, but if darkness can be sensed or the information researched seems impure, I deem this very unwise to dive in to. What you are researching seems personal and practical, it differs far from what a secret societies overall motives are.

I do understand this part, if ones intuition is giving them a "gut feeling," then often times that is valuable to exercise discernment.

Thank you for sharing your thought and opinion, I am intrigue with your experience and practice with the Hermetic Order, if you are comfortable, please do share your experiences.

[aWanderer91]

I believe the part where you said I contradicted myself, you answered by sharing my last quote it was just a lack of clarity on my part, like I said, if one senses darkness then why dabble.

I'm not a member of the golden dawn, and if I was I wouldn't say would I lol. Ra mentioned that guides will help e.g by super charging things. I came across the book on Amazon, and it felt right and apart of synchronicity so I bought the book.

From here I began studying the Hebrew alphabet, I went slowly and spent many weeks/months on this before moving onto the meditation and lesser ritual of the pentagram. The meditation was great, it helped open up my indigo ray, it brought many insights into various different things and improved my concentration. The lesser banishing ritual was also great, but powerful and came with various "side effects".

Eventually I put the book in the bin, it's an order that I have no business with and white magic is powerful stuff that from my own experience, one should be working from instruction by a balanced and wise teacher. This I didn't have. It most definitely served its purpose though.

I became suspicious with its ties to other secret societies, as the beings I have met who were part of secret societies were most definitely service to self.

That's the end of my story.

[jafar]

I might add a bit explanation on #3 about "Social Memory Complex".

The closest model is definitely not LDS / FM or any other exclusive group, and I cited an example of "Group of people sharing files / photo / video on a cloud platform".

But in SMC, no "Cloud Platform" is required, as the "Memory / Data Sharing Platform" is always exist since the beginning of time.
And any 'entities' (human and non-human included) or 'identities' are merely 'virtual layer' on top of those "Memory / Data Sharing Platform".

Just like a 'folder' are merely 'virtual layer' on top of Cloud based File Sharing platform.
Because all data in the cloud based file sharing platform are naturally shared, the 'folder' was created (virtually) to segregate access to the data.

Today's Cloud Platform can only share 'raw data', but cannot share the 'perception' and 'emotional' information from that raw data.
For example, it's left to the user who saw the photo on what his/her perception might be about the image (funny, ugly, beauty etc..)
But in SMC; even the 'perception' and 'emotional' information is also being shared, as it was experienced by the entity within SMC.

Some example;
- In SMC, you can 'access' the experience of 15 years of learning the piano as experienced by other entity within the SMC group, and instantly you can play the piano as good as him/her.
More than that, you can also experience the 'emotional biases' from that entity regarding certain song, some song might reminds him of his past lover etc...
- In SMC, you can 'access' the experience of 20 years of speaking and writing Chinese, and instantly you become as fluent as him/her in Chinese.
More than that, you can also experience the 'emotional biases' from that entity regarding certain chinese character..
etc...

And here's a good description of "SMC" as told by Quo
Q’uo On Social Memory Complexes
https://youtu.be/bSPEMQCM0xU

[Aion]

I would offer the notion that the Golden Dawn falls under the "fringe masonry" umbrella, and actually their style at one point would have been derided by many masons. Nowadays a lot of these fraternities are intermingling. However, Golden Dawn is distinct from Freemasonry in many ways.

I do not think any of these schools are purely positive or negative. I think they all have mixed elements to their teachings, and rather than it being a function of the teaching I think it is more a function of the mind and soul which holds the teaching that determines the true polarity. The same words can be interpreted in many ways.

Ra talks about "use" of catalyst. We "use" catalyst in positive or negative ways. People get caught up in trying to describe catalyst as positive or negative. I think it is neither, it only becomes so as it filters through the system of the one who is imprinted by it. A positive adept can turn even deep negativity positive, and vice versa. Hence the art of transmutation can work for both construction and destruction. Both sides are needed for the Great Work.

Also interesting note regarding the duality of black and white, there is actually a phenomenon whereby on the western part of the world black is seen as death and white as life, but on the other side of the planet, such as Japan, these colours are opposite. It's worth noting that for every rule in one place, there is a mirror image in another.

[aWanderer91]

A balanced view and nicely put, Aion.

[jafar]

Ra talks about "use" of catalyst. We "use" catalyst in positive or negative ways. People get caught up in trying to describe catalyst as positive or negative. I think it is neither, it only becomes so as it filters through the system of the one who is imprinted by it. A positive adept can turn even deep negativity positive, and vice versa. Hence the art of transmutation can work for both construction and destruction. Both sides are needed for the Great Work.

Exactly, as without 'negative' there cannot be 'positive' to begin with.

Through fear one recognize courage.
Through hatred one recognize love.
Through darkness one recognize light.
Through vengeance one recognize forgiveness.
etc..

"All of the creation, my friends, is created by the One Infinite Creator, using concepts of polarity so that there is the positive and the negative in the magnetic sense that operate in order that the creation which you experience may be experienced in a sense which can provide you with a deeper grasp or understanding"
-- Quo

[J.W.]

There is a layer beyond/below polarities, dualism, and unity.

Love/light light/love, Dualism, Oneness. These are forms of the formless, distortions of the "one."

When "you" go from experiencing these "laws" and to creating your, becoming your own infinite creator, I ponder what laws/distortion you may create.

1234567, abcdefg, <--- foundations, the basic make-up of all sentences, equation. The concept of Logos - sub logois - sub sub.. etc. etc.

What if... None of that, or something beyond comprehension of this existence, this consciousness?

All you are, all you do, All that "is," are under the construct of the infinite creator.

When is your turn to be the "logos" "the infinite creator" "the all" "the atom" ..... I wonder what you will create?

yes, at this moment you are the "all," "the atom," "the one," but can you "imagine" beyond that?

I wonder, I wonder ...

[jafar]

There is a layer beyond/below polarities, dualism, and unity.

Love/light light/love, Dualism, Oneness. These are forms of the formless, distortions of the "one."

When "you" go from experiencing these "laws" and to creating your, becoming your own infinite creator, I ponder what laws/distortion you may create.

1234567, abcdefg, <--- foundations, the basic make-up of all sentences, equation. The concept of Logos - sub logois - sub sub.. etc. etc.

What if... None of that, or something beyond comprehension of this existence, this consciousness?

All you are, all you do, All that "is," are under the construct of the infinite creator.

When is your turn to be the "logos" "the infinite creator" "the all" "the atom" ..... I wonder what you will create?

yes, at this moment you are the "all," "the atom," "the one," but can you "imagine" beyond that?

I wonder, I wonder ...

When "you" is no more and so does "I" and "He/She/They/We" is no more. #identity
When "future" is no more and so does "past" is no more. #time
When "time" is no more and so does the word / conception "when" is no more.

Time and (limited / bounded) Identity is part of 'creation' and thus 'virtual'/'illusion'/'maya'.

[Quincunx]

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[J.W.]

When is your turn to be the "logos" "the infinite creator" "the all" "the atom" ..... I wonder what you will create?

I imagine it will be something like what we do already. Talk with self or bicker with self. I as in All will bicker about creating a universe where chocolate is the main theme. I can see it now... one side will say we should make white chocolate negative because brown chocolate tastes better. And then we'll debate about adding nuts or sprinkles to fudge waterfalls that collect in waffle cones. There will be no density confusion. The goal is to taste sweeter. Dentists will be outlawed and candy stores will be the government.

 I would love to be there for a while, oh the infinite worlds, the wonders  

I can see it now...

Yea... It's beautiful, soo nice to be able to come home, pour all the legos out and just go at it with giggles and a blissful smile... 

When "you" is no more and so does "I" and "He/She/They/We" is no more. #identity

When "future" is no more and so does "past" is no more. #time
When "time" is no more and so does the word / conception "when" is no more.

Time and (limited / bounded) Identity is part of 'creation' and thus 'virtual'/'illusion'/'maya'.

Yes... That is too, the dissolution of the self, but do you see it? the "no more" is something too, to experience "no more" is to experience within the lawofone ~ Beyond/beneath that, my dear other-selves, beyond/beneath the ALL and the NOTHING ~ do you see it? 

It is the unimaginable, it is the INFINITE, 

How ironic it is, that the "finite" is "in" the "finite" .... Inside-finite... In.. finite...  

    

[J.W.]

The Alphabetical Music Notation ~

A - B - C - D - E - F - G ~ G - F - E - D - C - B - A

From Adam to God, and God to Adam ~

The Creator experiencing the creation, and the Creation experiencing the Creator

right, now go further my dear other-selves, go

[J.W.]

I laugh and giggle when the moderator moved this thread from metaphysical forums to Olio, a place where

A forum for topics that you just can't seem to find a home for elsewhere,

how ironically freeing, with all of the structures and laws, and the "home" is where there seems to be none

[Quincunx]

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