Can you accept being a loser in this world?

[Louisabell]

What is actually won by the winners?  What are we fighting for, exactly?  Please remind me.

The 'winning' (thus it's opposite implication 'losing') is an STS thought framework.
Winning = gaining superiority, gaining dominance over the losers, enslaving the losers.

Below is one view of this.  If you make it to the end of the excerpt, you'll see that the path forward for some is the way of the heart.  Why would that be, I wonder?

Thank you for pointing the citation from Hatton, it correlate well and very similar with the Zen story..

Let me repeat the zen story:

There's a Zen story about a warlord who attack and raid a village, once he and his band arrived at the village he found that the village is already empty, all the populace has run away for safety. He and his band can then easily loot anything that they wishes from the village.
Until one of his man report back about a presence of a monk within the temple, who did not run away and sit still in meditation posture.
Enraged, the warlord come to the temple and approached the monk, draw his sword pointing it at the monk's head and said:

Warlord: You stupid monk! Why you don't run away like everybody else, don't you know who I am??? I can easily split you in half!
Monk: And don't you know who I am?? I can easily split MYSELF in half.

The probable result are the following:

1. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the monk won the battle gaining dominance over the warlord.
The monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path, the warlord failed to polarize further on STS path as he failed to gain dominance.
If the monk continue this pattern, continue seeking and fighting another warlords, he will be on his 'highway to STS' and potentially polarizing much further than the warlord himself on STS path, becoming more war mongering than the warlord, although he dressed like a monk.

2. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the warlord won the battle gaining dominance over the monk. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path. If the monk did not accept the 'losing' event and vow for revenge,  the monk will grow further in his bitterness and anger, the monk will polarize further and further to STS.

3. The monk decided to fight the warlord, but the battle ends in a draw, none of them could dominate over the other.
The warlord fail to polarize further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path and failed to polarize further on STO path.

4. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance and the warlord split him in half. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself further on STO path.
So both are polarizing further on their respective path.

5. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance, but the warlord amazed by the courage of the monk, as 'splitting myself in half' is something that the warlord is not able to do, he then decided to learn more on how the monk is able to do that.
The warlord has starting to polarize himself towards STO path.

Interesting. I interpreted that Zen story to be one centered on unity consciousness. i.e. the warlord splitting the monk in half IS the monk splitting himself in half, because we are all One. All actions are performed by and on the One. The monk (assuming he has unity consciousness) can see and understand how no external action on him is performed by anyone other than himSelf. So, for the warlord, it kind of takes away the satisfaction of there being a "battle" of "adversaries" in the first place. There is no separateness, there are no enemies, there is no ego to war against, just movements of different arms from the same One Infinite Creator. The warlord then is faced with whether he wishes to perform such violence on one of his own limbs... bah! realisation ... very zen

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

[Sacred Fool]

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

Yes, there are no differentiated players on a level remote from the field of action.  But closer to home I think the question is, "How best can I be of service?"  "What experience does my heart lead me to pursue where my service best expresses the love of the one Creatrix'? "  I see that as the relevant "game."  Actually, I would refer to it as a sacred commitment to consciousness rather than a game.
   

[throwawaynegative132]

What is actually won by the winners? What are we fighting for, exactly? Please remind me.

The 'winning' (thus it's opposite implication 'losing') is an STS thought framework.
Winning = gaining superiority, gaining dominance over the losers, enslaving the losers.

Below is one view of this. If you make it to the end of the excerpt, you'll see that the path forward for some is the way of the heart. Why would that be, I wonder?

Thank you for pointing the citation from Hatton, it correlate well and very similar with the Zen story..

Let me repeat the zen story:

There's a Zen story about a warlord who attack and raid a village, once he and his band arrived at the village he found that the village is already empty, all the populace has run away for safety. He and his band can then easily loot anything that they wishes from the village.
Until one of his man report back about a presence of a monk within the temple, who did not run away and sit still in meditation posture.
Enraged, the warlord come to the temple and approached the monk, draw his sword pointing it at the monk's head and said:

Warlord: You stupid monk! Why you don't run away like everybody else, don't you know who I am??? I can easily split you in half!
Monk: And don't you know who I am?? I can easily split MYSELF in half.

The probable result are the following:

1. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the monk won the battle gaining dominance over the warlord.
The monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path, the warlord failed to polarize further on STS path as he failed to gain dominance.
If the monk continue this pattern, continue seeking and fighting another warlords, he will be on his 'highway to STS' and potentially polarizing much further than the warlord himself on STS path, becoming more war mongering than the warlord, although he dressed like a monk.

2. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the warlord won the battle gaining dominance over the monk. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path. If the monk did not accept the 'losing' event and vow for revenge, the monk will grow further in his bitterness and anger, the monk will polarize further and further to STS.

3. The monk decided to fight the warlord, but the battle ends in a draw, none of them could dominate over the other.
The warlord fail to polarize further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path and failed to polarize further on STO path.

4. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance and the warlord split him in half. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself further on STO path.
So both are polarizing further on their respective path.

5. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance, but the warlord amazed by the courage of the monk, as 'splitting myself in half' is something that the warlord is not able to do, he then decided to learn more on how the monk is able to do that.
The warlord has starting to polarize himself towards STO path.

Interesting. I interpreted that Zen story to be one centered on unity consciousness. i.e. the warlord splitting the monk in half IS the monk splitting himself in half, because we are all One. All actions are performed by and on the One. The monk (assuming he has unity consciousness) can see and understand how no external action on him is performed by anyone other than himSelf. So, for the warlord, it kind of takes away the satisfaction of there being a "battle" of "adversaries" in the first place. There is no separateness, there are no enemies, there is no ego to war against, just movements of different arms from the same One Infinite Creator. The warlord then is faced with whether he wishes to perform such violence on one of his own limbs... bah! realisation ... very zen

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

5 is delusional. The rest simply proves the original posters view. STO path is for losers.Living by those guidelines one will do nothing but suffer in this world.
How can you all accept this crap? To let oneself be beaten is denying the self. 3D density is a battle of equals. It is anything but unity. Such views of unity is what is causing the mayhem in this world. It's not the evil people like the warlord who are the problem....it's the people who think they are doing good by doing absolutely nothing which is ironically what the STO path is mostly about. Sitting by and abiding free will instead of bringing true order into this world. Perhaps there is a kind of balance after 6th density where the entity is capable of establishing order.
I just don't see how any sane individual can deny reality so much. I understand we are talking about higher density consciousness but by letting yourself be killed you polarize the earth closer towards the negative and remove the light(you)from it. If it wasn't for the large influx of positive wanderers who btw willingly sacrifice themselved!!!!! a handful of negative wanderers could have taken over the planet with ease due to all the "good" people just watching things happen and thinking oh it's all unity nothings really bad is happening.
Coming to earth as a positive wanderer is nothing but russian roulette. This is a sacrifice. Just think about it. Both the confederation and the empire have the same power and you know what? The Empire has 90% less entities than the federation. They are at a numerical disadvantage yet they use their catalyst so efficently they are able to channel exactly the same amount of power. I understand chosing the path of love but in my eyes that is just chosing infinite heroine over getting over onself and coming clean with reality. I have yet to see someone who incorperates both aspects of the path. Someone who would fight the warlord and defeat him. Giving rise to a new order. One based on justice and freedom instead of enslavement.
I would write down the parts where Ra speaks about this but I think its obvious. There is no need to indulge in martydom. There are plenty of other paths available. The monk doesn't even have to fight. Escaping the warlord and cutting off supply routes to his army will starve his men and take his power base away. No need to even confront the enemy. The light never attacks, it defends.
I mean no offense. Just saying not to be stuck in the 4th density view. There are plenty of alien factions who are fighting for the future of humanity in fourth density. Those that are not deluded by the endless amount of love available. There is a great risk in participating in such views. I see lots of people everyday blinded by love and naivety. When opening the heart there also must be allowed for wisdom to flow in otherwise you risk your ability to hold the heart open. The negatives make great use of the positives naivety.

[Glow]

I’m not going to address all those points it’s pretty clear of you feel like you are a loser for not being in control and amassing wealth then you are playing by STS rules.

All one has to do is shift games. Then it feels pretty great and you can let everyone else work out their catylist. Offer peace to them and moments of unity for a while.

It’s not a game at all really it’s a choice. Which direction would you like to explore.

STS where there will be further disharmony, beings suffering, those hoarding wealth and power or move into unity where gradually that fades away. We move towards our known reality of oneness where obviously that stuff makes less and less sense.

I guess that’s why Ra said to put the cards down to win. Stop playing.
Move to unity consciousness and slowly step/polarize to move into 4D.

As to suffering being 3D the less you try to change reality and instead learn to love tjose within it the less that suffering of self really bothers you.

[ada]

50.7 Questioner: Thank you. Can you expand on the concept which is this: that it is necessary for an entity to, during incarnation in the physical as we call it, become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when he is aware of what he wants to do, but why must he come into an incarnation and lose memory, conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way that he hopes to act? Could you expand on that please?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.
In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.
Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.
You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

[flofrog]

One point :
Ra doesn’t promote martyrdom as the peak of an STO experiment , and he is in fact explicit on the fact that martyrdom also stops the incarnation so in effect reduces the STO length of work on the planet. He views martyrdom as only one option of the STO choices.

[Diana]

STO path is for losers.Living by those guidelines one will do nothing but suffer in this world.  
How can you all accept this crap? To let oneself be beaten is denying the self. 3D density is a battle of equals. It is anything but unity. Such views of unity is what is causing the mayhem in this world. It's not the evil people like the warlord who are the problem....it's the people who think they are doing good by doing absolutely nothing which is ironically what the STO path is mostly about. Sitting by and abiding free will instead of bringing true order into this world. Perhaps there is a kind of balance after 6th density where the entity is capable of establishing order.
I just don't see how any sane individual can deny reality so much.  I understand we are talking about higher density consciousness but by letting yourself be killed you polarize the earth closer towards the negative and remove the light(you)from it. If it wasn't for the large influx of positive wanderers who btw willingly sacrifice themselved!!!!! a handful of negative wanderers could have taken over the planet with ease due to all the "good" people just watching things happen and thinking oh it's all unity nothings really bad is happening.
Coming to earth as a positive wanderer is nothing but russian roulette. This is a sacrifice. Just think about it. Both the confederation and the empire have the same power and you know what? The Empire has 90% less entities than the federation. They are at a numerical disadvantage yet they use their catalyst so efficently they are able to channel exactly the same amount of power.  I understand chosing the path of love but in my eyes that is just chosing infinite heroine over getting over onself and coming clean with reality. I have yet to see someone who incorperates both aspects of the path. Someone who would fight the warlord and defeat him. Giving rise to a new order. One based on justice and freedom instead of enslavement.
I would write down the parts where Ra speaks about this but I think its obvious. There is no need to indulge in martyrdom. There are plenty of other paths available. The monk doesn't even have to fight. Escaping the warlord and cutting off supply routes to his army will starve his men and take his power base away. No need to even confront the enemy. The light never attacks, it defends.
I mean no offense. Just saying not to be stuck in the 4th density view. There are plenty of alien factions who are fighting for the future of humanity in fourth density. Those that are not deluded by the endless amount of love available. There is a great risk in participating in such views. I see lots of people everyday blinded by love and naivety. When opening the heart there also must be allowed for wisdom to flow in otherwise you risk your ability to hold the heart open. The negatives make great use of the positives naivety.

To answer the OP, No. I do not accept being a loser in this world. Being a loser is NOT synonymous with being STO. I consider myself a winner, an empowered person, and I also consider myself STO.

Perhaps the problem is the idea of separation itself. If one is STO, then one understands the self as an other—one must serve self as well as others or there IS separation (between self and others). You can't deny self and only serve others without separation. That is why martyrdom doesn't get a STO entity very far. This may be difficult to balance but this existence is paradoxical.

My take on the monk story: it sounds like the monk is operating from ego. If I were in that village, I would not sit around and be sacrificed, because....to what end? To prove a point? Decisions are made every day by all of us. The bottom line is decisions (or not making decisions and just reacting) derive from who we are. So ask yourself: Who am I?

One more thing. Many people think you need to be STS oriented to be "successful" in this life. It simply is not true. And neither do you have to sacrifice your own comfort for others, to be STO. You can be successful (and by that I do mean financially and otherwise) by having the attitude of being of service. For example, whatever work you do, you do it to the very best of your ability, whether or not the compensation is commiserate with the effort put in. Let's say you are a graphic designer. Are you going to do just enough to get the job done (similar to the majority of humans who only work to get a paycheck)? Or are you going to do your best (in other words, come from a place of love) in any project you are designing, whether you are doing it for a friend for free or doing it for a business that is paying you really well for it? When you do your best in everything you do, you ARE a winner.

My advice is to change focus to the idea of being the best you can personally be in everything you do. Take action and the next time there is a task, complete it with attention and do the best you can. Even if it is something simple like cleaning a room in the house. 

[flofrog]

The thing is, as Diana's post shows, you are a winner with yourself and others, not over someone.  And indeed the pleasure of washing perfectly a floor while on our knees with a  good sponge can be quite a zen moment of pure love... happens to me a lot,  lol  

[Sacred Fool]

I have yet to see someone who incorperates both aspects of the path. Someone who would fight the warlord and defeat him. Giving rise to a new order. One based on justice and freedom instead of enslavement.

I think the story (which probably wasn't taken from a "how-to manual") was exactly trying to show someone incorporating both sides.  One message offered is that the criminal's power was not greater than the monk's because the monk, too, could slaughter himself if he decided to.  He held that power of destruction as well as the power to serve positively.

"Order," you say?  Orders come and orders go.  The way of one dedicated to serving others is not to order people, either in one sense of the word or another.  The way of peace is to support people in their spiritual journey by offering a model of a vibration which is closer to that of the one Creatrix.  That's how I see it.
  

[flofrog]

About the illusion and naïveté of the STO, there is something about the path of the STS. The STS is about the warrior and winning its way by conquering and enslaving. But if we follow how this path works, the STS can only gain constantly by 'winning' constantly over others, so the vision where all STS conquer the naive STO and then can establish a world of freedom doesn't concur with a pure STS path where winning is necessary over anybody, STO or STS, so unity with other STS to establish a new world just cannot happen The concept of unity with another one just doesn't exist, and so we arrive at the complete solitude of the STS having conquered all, and nothing is left to organize a new world except for the one left ?

[Ohr Ein Sof]

About the illusion and naïveté of the STO, there is something about the path of the STS.  The STS is about the warrior and winning its way by conquering and enslaving. But if we follow how this path works, the STS can only gain constantly by 'winning' constantly over others, so the vision where all STS conquer the naive STO and then can establish a world of freedom doesn't concur with a pure STS path where winning is necessary over anybody, STO or STS, so unity with other STS to establish a new world just cannot happen The concept of unity with another one just doesn't exist,   and so we arrive at the complete solitude of the STS having conquered all, and nothing is left to organize a new world except for the one left ?

I believe this is a good point but I think we would almost have to remember there is always something or someone to conquer according to the negative polarity. The STS path is very dependent upon the illusion if we can keep in mind that within the illusion is the seeming many-ness.
Also, as long as there are both paths cohabitating together, there will never be true freedom. Freedom is when we can rise above the lower worlds, beyond the yellow ray. When we are raising above the 3rd density, we are free and can even become free within from the confines of the negative polarity, but true freedom, comes upon the exit of third density or the cycles of necessity.

[Louisabell]

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

Yes, there are no differentiated players on a level remote from the field of action.  But closer to home I think the question is, "How best can I be of service?"  "What experience does my heart lead me to pursue where my service best expresses the love of the one Creatrix'? "  I see that as the relevant "game."  Actually, I would refer to it as a sacred commitment to consciousness rather than a game.
   

Well as I see it, the ultimate 'game' is the one being played by Intelligent Infinity. I just try to play along as best I can, because for the most part, it's just a whole bunch of fun. For Infinity is not just a concept, but lives and moves through all beings. Infinity is alive, she loves, she communicates, she plays.  

And even those people who seem completely preoccupied with the mundane, cannot help but be Infinity's instruments, for when the time is right and inspiration strikes, even they can offer great feats of service, even without any knowledge or conscious awareness of it. For while my human mind cannot know what the best service in the moment is, Infinity knows.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

Yes, there are no differentiated players on a level remote from the field of action.  But closer to home I think the question is, "How best can I be of service?"  "What experience does my heart lead me to pursue where my service best expresses the love of the one Creatrix'? "  I see that as the relevant "game."  Actually, I would refer to it as a sacred commitment to consciousness rather than a game.
   

Well as I see it, the ultimate 'game' is the one being played by Intelligent Infinity. I just try to play along as best I can, because for the most part, it's just a whole bunch of fun. For Infinity is not just a concept, but lives and moves through all beings. Infinity is alive, she loves, she communicates, she plays.  

And even those people who seem completely preoccupied with the mundane, cannot help but be Infinity's instruments, for when the time is right and inspiration strikes, even they can offer great feats of service, even without any knowledge or conscious awareness of it. For while my human mind cannot know what the best service in the moment is, Infinity knows.

May I ask why you placed a pronoun with Infinity?
We are all preoccupied with the mundane as the mundane being the balance to the profound.

[Louisabell]

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

Yes, there are no differentiated players on a level remote from the field of action.  But closer to home I think the question is, "How best can I be of service?"  "What experience does my heart lead me to pursue where my service best expresses the love of the one Creatrix'? "  I see that as the relevant "game."  Actually, I would refer to it as a sacred commitment to consciousness rather than a game.
   

Well as I see it, the ultimate 'game' is the one being played by Intelligent Infinity. I just try to play along as best I can, because for the most part, it's just a whole bunch of fun. For Infinity is not just a concept, but lives and moves through all beings. Infinity is alive, she loves, she communicates, she plays.  

And even those people who seem completely preoccupied with the mundane, cannot help but be Infinity's instruments, for when the time is right and inspiration strikes, even they can offer great feats of service, even without any knowledge or conscious awareness of it. For while my human mind cannot know what the best service in the moment is, Infinity knows.

May I ask why you placed a pronoun with Infinity?
We are all preoccupied with the mundane as the mundane being the balance to the profound.

About the pronoun, I didn't want to repeat the term 'Infinity' ad infinitum...   Also, I wanted to give a sense of the personal, as I feel (that for me at least) my relationship with the Creator is profoundly personal. Whether him/she is used is not all that important. There are portions of experience of the Creator which I see as tending towards having more feminine or masculine qualities, based on the archetypes, but again this is just a side-note. The Creator is, of course, beyond all duality.

As for when I referred to people that are "completely preoccupied" with the mundane, I meant those people who have not yet started seeking on a spiritual path, and continue to repeat the same lessons in first/second/third ray understandings. The "normies", some might say... that's why I used the word "completely".

In truth, mundanity is a matter of perspective, as eventually the sacramental nature of all things can be seen.

49.6 Ra: ... Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.

So for example, some regular person on the street can come up to you and say something that was so perfect and synchronistic to your present experience that you feel an overwhelming sense of faith that the Creator is present and walking side-by-side with you on your journey through life.

[Dtris]

About the illusion and naïveté of the STO, there is something about the path of the STS.  The STS is about the warrior and winning its way by conquering and enslaving. But if we follow how this path works, the STS can only gain constantly by 'winning' constantly over others, so the vision where all STS conquer the naive STO and then can establish a world of freedom doesn't concur with a pure STS path where winning is necessary over anybody, STO or STS, so unity with other STS to establish a new world just cannot happen The concept of unity with another one just doesn't exist,   and so we arrive at the complete solitude of the STS having conquered all, and nothing is left to organize a new world except for the one left ?

I disagree about the warrior being a part of STS path. The warrior as an archetype encompasses both polarities. STS is much less about being a warrior than it is in commanding the warriors to do your bidding. Those who consider themselves the elite do not play their games and have their contest with plebeians.

It is ironic that so many people think that force can be used to make the world better. What happens after every "war on" in this world? War on drugs makes more drugs than ever, war on poverty makes more poverty, war on crime makes more crime, etc.

Many people think that if only they could be in charge of the world they could end poverty, end suffering, end crime, etc. If everyone would just do as they say and not question them. Hundreds of millions of people died in the 20th century because people thought they could force the world to fit their view, and all those who stood in the way of that were slaughtered.

The STS path is not one which teaches the plebeians that the world is cruel and they must compete to survive and dominate their fellows so they eat while others starve. It teaches the plebeians that they need to look to the elite to take care of them and they will be kept safe from harm if they just do as they are told. Just bend the knee to the elite and they will make sure you are taken care of.

The contests are reserved for between those who are elite and wield the staff and rod.

[flofrog]

Thank you Dtris for your perspective. My post was intended more like a question about the new order mentioned by throawaynegative132, and making the hypothesis of the solitary path of an STS peaking.
I have not really studied deeply the STS path and I was curious to make this hypothesis.

[Minyatur]

Let's be real here. You can not win in the physical world by acting in a way that resonates with higher densities. We know that's true for worldy things. Of course there are two kinds of winning. One is winning in this world and one is winning in the other. You can not tell me it is possible to have both. Even the disciples of Jesus constantly asked him how to turn the illusion in their favor. But to live in the illusion is not the right way. We are in this world but not of it. This seems rather  hard to accept. In fact probably the hardest to accept and I have had trouble doing that all my life.

Of course you can win in both. The entire philosophy of the material is about that all separation in-between things is illusory. While they differ in how you are having your experience, it does not mean that you cannot act in a way that resonates with higher densities down here. For example, one may think that you cannot be compassionate here on Earth, while it is extremely welcome by countless people. The lesson instead could be that you cannot force compassion upon another that does not desire it and this is what would be in alignment with the way of higher densities, to be considerate of the other in your interactions as part of your compassion.

The main difference I would say resides in that a big theme in being human is to experience confusion and get wounded through it. This impacts greatly our behaviors with others and taints them. Others are also confused and wounded, which in turn also affects their behaviors with us and taints them. Then as the densities represent a hierarchy in the evolution of consciousness, one may understand that the ways of higher densities are merely with a greater degree of clarity and comprehension in regard to the nature of both oneself and others.

This might be the hardest to accept. If we do not fight against those who rules us who stops them? I am aware of what Jesus said about handling occupation.
He said: "He advises his followers to overcome Roman oppression with creativity and kindness. If a Roman soldier conscripts you into carrying his bags, don’t just take them the legally required limit, carry them the extra mile."

This didn't work obviously. As you know, Rome eventually captured Jesus and crucified him . It seems that the executioners had a lot of vicious fun with him, as they mocked him with a crown of thorns, a robe, and a “coronation walk” where he was forced to carry the cross he would be crucified on.

And now look, Jesus teachings have been peverted and the Vatican/Jesuits are one of the most powerful organizations of the world(I mean that in a bad way).

The material called Jesus's martyrdom an end of opportunity for those who seek further. So while Jesus might be a great example for many things, it is not the perfect example either.

Why bother? with anything. Nothing in this world matters. It might matter for the world after this one but not here. All you do here is fight against ebb and tide. An endless cycle of violence.

The only problem I seem to have with this is if you are with your family and friends.I can handle not having the gold of this world but can they? As the common saying goes pyrite is fools gold.
I'm not sure I'd be able to see people I love suffer because they refuse to take part in a corrupt system.I know we only have to be 51 % STO but you know in my opinion it's just as hard as being 95%. There's no point trying to live from your heart if you are willing trampling on others in order to get a comfortable life. We live with riches because we take from others. Don't try to sell me anything. This is the matrix we're talking about, not some fantasy.

While you could say there are evils within our system, I think it is demonized far too much by too many people. Everyone requires resources to live and everyone requires to work for their survival, that is the way of nature and not anything humans have thought up. We have come to a system where we can make many complex things that no one could make on their own, we have made available for everyone to have a variety of ways to provide to the needs of others upon something they are willing to trade for. Sure there is a lot of corruption in many places, but it is quite possible to make a honest living. You cannot pluck an apple from a tree without there being one less apple, that is simply the way the heavens shaped our world.

Okay let's take an extreme example. Say you are in a post apocalyptic scenario and you and your family come across a bunch of thieves and worse....you know the only way to get trough this is to take your guns and use them in a lethal manner. It's a one way street. Either you do it or you get enslaved. What do you do?


25.5 Questioner: You spoke of an Orion Confederation and a battle being fought between the Confederation and the Orion Confederation. Is it possible to convey any concept of how this battle is fought?

Ra: I am Ra. Picture, if you will, your mind. Picture it then in total unity with all other minds of your society. You are then single-minded and that which is a weak electrical charge in your physical illusion is now an enormously powerful machine whereby thoughts may be projected as things.
In this endeavor the Orion group charges or attacks the Confederation arms with light. The result, a stand-off, as you would call it, both energies being somewhat depleted by this and needing to regroup; the negative depleted through failure to manipulate, the positive depleted through failure to accept that which is given.

25.6 Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.
This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.
It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.
It has not been fruitful for either side. The only consequence which has been helpful is a balancing of the energies available to this planet so that these energies have less necessity to be balanced in this space/time, thus lessening the chances of planetary annihilation.

Defending yourself in this world....what would that turn you into?

That depends entirely upon the state of your heart. Survival instincts are for starters rooted within your body and mind, so acting in self defense may not even be a polarized action because it is the other party that initiates the threat and it is within your red ray to have a drive for your family's survival.

I think the challenge is kind of always to not take things personally (applies to all relationship dilemmas). If you have to defend yourself and it gets to a point where you kill the other party, what was the energy behind it? Was it merely fear? Was it hatred? Or was it maybe sadness? I think you can remain positively polarized in this scenario through the later, as you did not want to kill the other party unless forced to, you did not hate them and you even felt compassion with an open heart for them to the extent that you feel a sorrow for their death. In a way, you could feel like you were left with no choice. While an open heart can love them unconditionally, this does not imply that you cannot also love yourself and your family unconditionally. Sure like in the Ra quote, that may be depolarizing and require further balancing on your part to accept the event and regain your previous degree of polarity which had never faced such a catalyst, but that does not mean in any way that you are polarizing negatively either.

This might be an extreme example but you can apply it into all areas of life. As you can quickly see this isn't a way to live in this world. To be of service to others is to be a loser in the physical ascpects of life.  Or does being STO allow you to defend yourself everytime you are attacked?
Then you'd have to carefully pick your battles so that you may win them. This quickly goes into STS-thinking.
Buddha once said that if you are given a gift and do not accept it it goes back to the one who bought it for you. Similary you can repel attacks and insults.  Does that mean you should just let yourself get beaten down? I know you can control your emotional response but still. How could you allow your body to endure such suffering? It is just as much a part of you as is your soul.
Do any of you accept that like Jesus did? I doubt it.

I'm not sure if I'm capable of accepting that.

Like said above, it is all about never taking anything personal and the other-selves merely act as mirrors upon the self. Whatever they stir within you comes from your own state of imbalance, if you were in a state of balance you would instead be unfazed and merely an observer of their state of imbalance. If someone is pushing you to an extent that you cannot handle it, the correct response is to act and later you may balance in mediation your response. If you do not take it personally, then you can come to ask yourself why was I affected so much by what this person said? Did this hit insecurities I have with myself? If so, why do I have these insecurities and how can I make use of this opportunity to maybe alter my own perception of myself into not being bound by this energy anymore. Then through this work, if the situation happened anew, the other person would not have the same power to hurt you, possibly leaving them unfulfilled in even trying to anymore.

The way of catalyst is that charges that resonate together attract one another to offer an opportunity for growth on both sides. It is easy to always cast the blame upon another without reconsidering one's own position within the event, but you are an actor of the dance. Different people attract different kind of situations to themselves, we all have our own patterns to work with.

I think what would be most useful is to not have a fixed conception of what STO and STS polarity implies. Even in the material it says they used these terms due to our distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity. Even within the Universe, polarity is not a finite concept and instead an ever expanding and growing one. No one on this forum is anywhere near fully comprehending what polarity really is, nor do I think it is even possible to. What I personally believe is that STO does not mean to be weak and a loser, it is instead a form of growth in which the self is empowered in its inner being to crystalize and radiate a greater and purer energy. There is no unique path to go about this growth, instead it really is events and catalysts that offer the opportunity for our will to realize itself and carve its own path.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

Yes, there are no differentiated players on a level remote from the field of action.  But closer to home I think the question is, "How best can I be of service?"  "What experience does my heart lead me to pursue where my service best expresses the love of the one Creatrix'? "  I see that as the relevant "game."  Actually, I would refer to it as a sacred commitment to consciousness rather than a game.
   

Well as I see it, the ultimate 'game' is the one being played by Intelligent Infinity. I just try to play along as best I can, because for the most part, it's just a whole bunch of fun. For Infinity is not just a concept, but lives and moves through all beings. Infinity is alive, she loves, she communicates, she plays.  

And even those people who seem completely preoccupied with the mundane, cannot help but be Infinity's instruments, for when the time is right and inspiration strikes, even they can offer great feats of service, even without any knowledge or conscious awareness of it. For while my human mind cannot know what the best service in the moment is, Infinity knows.

May I ask why you placed a pronoun with Infinity?
We are all preoccupied with the mundane as the mundane being the balance to the profound.

About the pronoun, I didn't want to repeat the term 'Infinity' ad infinitum...   Also, I wanted to give a sense of the personal, as I feel (that for me at least) my relationship with the Creator is profoundly personal. Whether him/she is used is not all that important. There are portions of experience of the Creator which I see as tending towards having more feminine or masculine qualities, based on the archetypes, but again this is just a side-note. The Creator is, of course, beyond all duality.

As for when I referred to people that are "completely preoccupied" with the mundane, I meant those people who have not yet started seeking on a spiritual path, and continue to repeat the same lessons in first/second/third ray understandings. The "normies", some might say... that's why I used the word "completely".

In truth, mundanity is a matter of perspective, as eventually the sacramental nature of all things can be seen.

49.6 Ra: ... Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.

So for example, some regular person on the street can come up to you and say something that was so perfect and synchronistic to your present experience that you feel an overwhelming sense of faith that the Creator is present and walking side-by-side with you on your journey through life.

Thank you so much for the clarification.
It is so correct in saying that the Creator is beyond duality and beyond even our own interpretation and the only thing that can be sited it that It Is, forever.

As for when I referred to people that are "completely preoccupied" with the mundane, I meant those people who have not yet started seeking on a spiritual path, and continue to repeat the same lessons in first/second/third ray understandings. The "normies", some might say... that's why I used the word "completely".

I like to think of the "normies" as if they were entranced by something they cannot see, touch or know at this moment; as to why, it could be trauma based and this is the reason for their sleep (who can say?). They are in a deep sleep as if they were hypnotized. However it goes, even they are on the path of return. Like when we look at a fast moving wheel, it appears to be still but in reality it is moving very quickly. Like you said, it is the perception based on who and what we are and all we have come to know as an entity or a living soul. In reality, we are very ignorant before we are a little enlightened. I feel such sorrow for anyone who is caught up in this world and who doesn't even know they are asleep.
The Achetypes, The Fool is pictured as a young male. An active, even youthful Life force; The Limitless Light before manifestation. Male and female are a way to describe the acting energies and insofar as describing the polarities. The active force is always considered the male principle and the receptive force is the feminine principle; as a way of describing the Archetypes that are within each of us.

I was a bit confused but I think you clarified it nicely so that I could understand your point of view. It is wonderful that your relationship with the Creator is so deep, loving and connected.

[Dtris]

Thank you Dtris for your perspective. My post was intended more like a question about the new order mentioned by throawaynegative132, and making the hypothesis of the solitary path of an STS peaking.  
I have not really studied deeply the STS path and I was curious to make this hypothesis.

I was trying to piggyback off your comment about that same order but perhaps I was not able to communicate very clearly.

We know from Ra that 5th Density Negative is very Solitary but at the same time they are the ones at the top of the STS pecking order. I think your hypothesis about running out of things to conquer is probably fairly accurate. At least if they want to progress.

My own post was more in the vein of someone basically conquering and then attempting to set things right or set up a STO oriented society in 3rd Density. You cannot build a STO society after conquering your enemy. This has been attempted over and over again and is the great rallying cry of revolutionaries all over the world.

In 5th Density the STS being may find a lack of things left to Conquer. In 3rd Density that same entity may have started a revolution for the good of his fellows, if they will only listen to him. STS is the path of control, and one way is to control others for their own good, and it has the benefit of deceiving the self at the same time.

[Minyatur]

We know from Ra that 5th Density Negative is very Solitary but at the same time they are the ones at the top of the STS pecking order. I think your hypothesis about running out of things to conquer is probably fairly accurate. At least if they want to progress.

Even 5D STO can be solitary though, as you are free to seek to harvest either solo or through working with a social memory complex in this density  So, if even positive entities can make the choice to be solitary in their evolution through 5D, it makes sense that any negative entity would if there is no necessity to work with other-selves. 4D on the other hand has this necessity for both polarities.

[flofrog]

Thank you both Minyatur and Dtris, really interesting.

I very much agree that our view of polarity cannot ever be whole while in 3 D, in fact one of the facts I love the most in the material is how Ra's comments are suffused with respect for both path, very 'pacifying'.

I also believe there is much solitude too at some point in the STO path too. And definitely the setting of a 'better' world in the STO path doesn't work with an initial conquer.

There's an interesting little point about the conquer concept, as in the Hindu tradition, for example, in the case of Ramana Maharshi, he repeatedly said you do not need to conquer the world, only conquer yourself, know yourself,

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Thank you both Minyatur and Dtris, really interesting.

I very much agree that our view of polarity cannot ever be whole while in 3 D, in fact one of the facts I love the most in the material is  how Ra's comments  are suffused with respect for both path, very 'pacifying'.

I also believe there is much solitude too at some point in the STO path too.  And definitely the setting of a 'better' world in the STO path doesn't work with an initial conquer.

There's  an interesting little point about the conquer concept, as in the Hindu tradition, for example, in the case of Ramana Maharshi, he repeatedly said you do not need to conquer the world, only conquer yourself, know yourself,  

There's an interesting little point about the conquer concept, as in the Hindu tradition, for example, in the case of Ramana Maharshi, he repeatedly said you do not need to conquer the world, only conquer yourself

[jafar]

[quote='Sacred Fool' pid='286103' dateline='1608312653']
What is actually won by the winners?  What are we fighting for, exactly?  Please remind me.

The 'winning' (thus it's opposite implication 'losing') is an STS thought framework.
Winning = gaining superiority, gaining dominance over the losers, enslaving the losers.

Below is one view of this.  If you make it to the end of the excerpt, you'll see that the path forward for some is the way of the heart.  Why would that be, I wonder?

Thank you for pointing the citation from Hatton, it correlate well and very similar with the Zen story..

Let me repeat the zen story:

There's a Zen story about a warlord who attack and raid a village, once he and his band arrived at the village he found that the village is already empty, all the populace has run away for safety. He and his band can then easily loot anything that they wishes from the village.
Until one of his man report back about a presence of a monk within the temple, who did not run away and sit still in meditation posture.
Enraged, the warlord come to the temple and approached the monk, draw his sword pointing it at the monk's head and said:

Warlord: You stupid monk! Why you don't run away like everybody else, don't you know who I am??? I can easily split you in half!
Monk: And don't you know who I am?? I can easily split MYSELF in half.

The probable result are the following:

1. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the monk won the battle gaining dominance over the warlord.
The monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path, the warlord failed to polarize further on STS path as he failed to gain dominance.
If the monk continue this pattern, continue seeking and fighting another warlords, he will be on his 'highway to STS' and potentially polarizing much further than the warlord himself on STS path, becoming more war mongering than the warlord, although he dressed like a monk.

2. The monk decided to fight the warlord, the warlord won the battle gaining dominance over the monk. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path. If the monk did not accept the 'losing' event and vow for revenge,  the monk will grow further in his bitterness and anger, the monk will polarize further and further to STS.

3. The monk decided to fight the warlord, but the battle ends in a draw, none of them could dominate over the other.
The warlord fail to polarize further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself one notch closer to STS path and failed to polarize further on STO path.

4. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance and the warlord split him in half. (the 'loser' scenario)
The warlord has polarized further on STS path, the monk has polarized himself further on STO path.
So both are polarizing further on their respective path.

5. The monk decided to let the warlord split him in half without resistance, but the warlord amazed by the courage of the monk, as 'splitting myself in half' is something that the warlord is not able to do, he then decided to learn more on how the monk is able to do that.
The warlord has starting to polarize himself towards STO path.

Interesting. I interpreted that Zen story to be one centered on unity consciousness. i.e. the warlord splitting the monk in half IS the monk splitting himself in half, because we are all One. All actions are performed by and on the One. The monk (assuming he has unity consciousness) can see and understand how no external action on him is performed by anyone other than himSelf. So, for the warlord, it kind of takes away the satisfaction of there being a "battle" of "adversaries" in the first place. There is no separateness, there are no enemies, there is no ego to war against, just movements of different arms from the same One Infinite Creator. The warlord then is faced with whether he wishes to perform such violence on one of his own limbs... bah! realisation ... very zen

Exactly...
But the 'illusion of separation' hindrance the 'other self' for such realization.

The monk realize that even when the warlord strike him, both of his 'self' are polarizing towards the same destination. Just through different path...

Quite relevant to the thread topic. How can there be winners, when there are no separate players? And what about the game ... which (or whose) game are you trying to play?

There is no winner when there is no loser.
Winning or losing is merely an illusion, if we took the 'zoomed out' perspective.

It's similar to playing video games in a living room, whomever win or lose inside the game doesn't really matter.
All of you is having fun playing video games in a living room.
Some player might become too 'attached' or 'immersed' to the game and cannot accept 'losing', we call this 'gamer rage'.
Some can, and he / she is laughing even when he / she is losing inside the game.

As for 'what game', then it left entirely to you, every individualization or identification of the self will have each their own unique and distinct experience.

And after some time one might get tired, wary and bored with the game, and decided not to play any more or play a totally new different game.

[Sacred Fool]

And after some time one might get tired, wary and bored with the game, and decided not to play any more or play a totally new different game.

  
Let's hope so!!!!!!
On a planetary level this game is soooooo worn out.  We really need some new games which employ more than the lower three chakras.  Who has some games we can play which will exercise our hearts?  Our planet is so hungry for these, imo.
  

[Louisabell]

As for 'what game', then it left entirely to you, every individualization or identification of the self will have each their own unique and distinct experience.

And after some time one might get tired, wary and bored with the game, and decided not to play any more or play a totally new different game.

And going from one game to another is that process of self-initiation. While we dance closer and closer to the precipice as we grow bored and tired of the diversions of the old game, the new game beckons forth. Something makes us take that leap, and then we find ourselves having new motivations and priorities. We behave somewhat differently in the eyes of others. And in truth we are radically different. Our desires not going away, but becoming more articulated and coherent, resonating more closely to the One primal desire, we continue to play.

[jafar]

And after some time one might get tired, wary and bored with the game, and decided not to play any more or play a totally new different game.

  
Let's hope so!!!!!!
On a planetary level this game is soooooo worn out.  We really need some new games which employ more than the lower three chakras.  Who has some games we can play which will exercise our hearts?  Our planet is so hungry for these, imo.
  

Well the "7 chakras" and the polarity of everything still resides within the same game franchise.
A different game set, or 'scenario' or 'level'.. or even 'game title' perhaps.... but it's still the same game.

Incarnating can be metaphorized as creating a new account / a new identity to log in inside the same game. A fresh new avatar that you can identify yourself with to experience everything inside the game.

The metaphor of 'not playing any game' is similar to total unity with the creator as Ra mentioned it, or Nirvana as Siddhartha mentioned it. Just turn off the PS4, the Xbox, the Oculus or any game / VR console that you have. move away from any identification with the game avatar and enjoy a moment of blissfulness.

While the metaphor of 'playing a new game' is similar to 'moving to the new octave' as Ra mentioned it.
There might be no polarity and no chakras.. just totally different game, totally different game ruleset and scenario unimaginable by anyone.

From playing "Shoot Each Other's Head" in Call Of Duty to playing Tetris... as a metaphor.

And those who developed / programmed the game and those who play / experienced the game is actually the same person.