Reagarding Faith......

[Diana]

I understand your point, Diana.  If "all is well" is believed to be a fact in real time, then one blocks opposite or contrasting experiences from one's consciousness.  And yet, as it is used here, the term has no basis in fact and is not logically derived; which is to say, it is actually NOT solidified and is not a mental construct. 

Instead, it's more like, after eating a refreshing bowl of ice cream on a hot day, when one feels inherent satisfaction, there is no mental construction needed: the satisfaction is just inherent in the experience.  Of course, when one experiences the vicissitudes of the outer world (where mentation plays a key role), this kind of satisfaction is not the most commonly felt response.  Yet, do you find, when tuning in below the waves of outer disturbance down into the deeper regions of self, that there is an inherent satisfaction there--not in the sense of escaping the outer world, but in the sense of feeling a bit closer to the warm center of Creation?  Isn't that what you sense when you purify and more deeply settle into your own experience of what you refer to as "acceptance?"   In that feeling of oceanic acceptance, is there not also a sense that--ahem--all is well.....or something similar to that?

I'm totally with you here. And I do have a a connection to that level of perception, with the caveat that I don't feel "all is well" for all beings.

Let me see if I can be articulate about what I mean, which I am dubious about . What I sometimes try to get across just doesn't fit well into words and sentences.

That feeling of connection is my feeling, my connection. That does not make unimportant the "outer world." I make a distinction between the outer world and the drama of the outer world. The drama is all human. The outer world includes all beings.

There are levels of consciousness, existence, perception, and evolution. Is one more important than the other? I may be able to enter that stream of consciousness that connects to all things, that is a beautiful wordless sense of well-being, but that does not equate to "all is well" in my opinion. It may be well for me when I am in that stream, but there are other levels of perception/consciousness where things are not well. By faith I presume you mean that this stream of well-being is what justifies "faith," in that at some point or level of experience all IS well seemingly. But what makes that level of consciousness or being more relevant than this one? This one is ephemeral, but that does not, in my mind, make it any less important than a million years or infinity. It all just IS. Would it be responsible to ignore one's accountability in any brief experience or interaction?

I cannot, no matter how much I connect to that stream of well-being myself, feel that all is well for the other beings in this existence. I can stretch my perceptions to comprehend the possible benefits of suffering for humans. But even then, there is just so much of it, and Ra did allude to there being anomalous and random catalyst and that they could not comment specifically because of it. I really can't know that people are without food and hungry without sadness. And I can't consider the very long list of suffering that humans put animals through, and plant life, insects—all other life but human without sadness. To me, this is not "all is well." And just because it's a fleeting life, and some think it's okay because we are evolving and learning lessons, and everything works out in the end, I question that stance. I am not a proponent of "the end justifies the means."

Maybe I'm just not evolved enough to be above the suffering. I have never claimed to be. But I challenge anyone to consider that all levels of being are equally relevant. Not just where we will be "down the road." Ra did talk about the concept of responsibility. Are we only to be responsible in certain circumstances, knowing that the greater reality is all bliss, and have faith that everything is okay within the context of that that greater reality? Faith would contend that you just have to have faith that it is. Well, that is circular thinking (or feeling), and great if you can believe it. For my part, I will continue to question and push boundaries and skate on the edges of consciousness.

[flofrog]

You got a main part of what I had in mind with that metaphor: inner life having changed greatly, comparing a few before-and-after stages. In not really being clear where I am going, at present in life, I've also been thinking of that as currently moving through a "corridor of change" of uncertain length.

One detail leads things around in a curious circle, the idea of "faith in the general process". Before the current stage of growth of faith, I had something else. I was very deeply, and rigidly, devoted to the best abstract ideals I could find; that was my spirituality before mid-2015. It was all personal discipline while pulled between abstract hopes and fears. What I called faith back then is very abstract, concerned with the big picture of everything and not something which greatly touches life in practice.

The change happening after that is impossible to describe well in writing. But the newer personal process which began resulted in the destruction of the old main hopes, fears, and discipline. In their absence, there's now the current stage of growth of faith. The faith is almost like something which is there instead of a vacuum.



 

so about faith...  [...] So you know I have a feeling  that that kind of faith is very close to unconditional love, and it is faith because our dad was always, always an optimist and he used to tease us saying, you are not going to be a pessimist, it is such an easy way !!!

It is quite a contrast to the mentality I've had. Maybe it is not really pessimism which is the big difference, but rather being very deeply alienated and, even though caring a lot when relating to individuals, being very cynical and misanthropic when considering humanity in general and the big picture.

Your family story is one more story where one of the themes is that some people can go through a lot of difficult things and still be really optimistic.

A kind of counter-theme is in the distanced, weird nerds who, when asked how they arrived at their bitter, cynical and disillusioned views, simply respond that they have because they have been thinking. (It may not be a very good response, the word "thinking", but it is a honest best effort at a good response.) That's how I was in the mid-00's.

One of several possible keys to such differences may be the "sense of self" that a person has. My guess is that, in the case of your dad, it was large and well-developed, with a good sense of personal identity.

I think there was something deeper than just staying positive about my dad but he was very reserved about speaking 'spiritually'  instead he would be witty and want to make us laugh.  There was a certain elegance to the way he was, or something where he wouldn't infringe and we would not in reaction to him, and love passed through wit and jokes. I think these long months in Germany made him think and feel deeply about life, I could be wrong.  But when he passed away,  my brother just had had a brain tumor,   so I was the one to clean up his office which he still had outside. One closet had three shelves of written cards and letters, all thrown together haphazardly.  The lovely woman who had worked with him as his secretary said to me it was all the cards or letters sent to him by people for whom he had found a job, his door was always opened to anyone, so he was like a little job agency to himself.  Lol,  looking back at him I guess he was aiming to polarize STO,  lol.

Asolsutsesvyl,   I so love your sentence  ' In their absence, there's now the current stage of growth of faith. The faith is almost like something which is there instead of a vacuum.'  That it ' is almost like something which is there instead of a vacuum .'   That strikes me a such an excellent subtle image of faith.

Exactly happened to me too  around early 80s, such a great image, thank you

[Navaratna]

I understand your point, Diana.  If "all is well" is believed to be a fact in real time, then one blocks opposite or contrasting experiences from one's consciousness.  And yet, as it is used here, the term has no basis in fact and is not logically derived; which is to say, it is actually NOT solidified and is not a mental construct. 

Instead, it's more like, after eating a refreshing bowl of ice cream on a hot day, when one feels inherent satisfaction, there is no mental construction needed: the satisfaction is just inherent in the experience.  Of course, when one experiences the vicissitudes of the outer world (where mentation plays a key role), this kind of satisfaction is not the most commonly felt response.  Yet, do you find, when tuning in below the waves of outer disturbance down into the deeper regions of self, that there is an inherent satisfaction there--not in the sense of escaping the outer world, but in the sense of feeling a bit closer to the warm center of Creation?  Isn't that what you sense when you purify and more deeply settle into your own experience of what you refer to as "acceptance?"   In that feeling of oceanic acceptance, is there not also a sense that--ahem--all is well.....or something similar to that?

I'm totally with you here. And I do have a a connection to that level of perception, with the caveat that I don't feel "all is well" for all beings.

Let me see if I can be articulate about what I mean, which I am dubious about . What I sometimes try to get across just doesn't fit well into words and sentences.

That feeling of connection is my feeling, my connection. That does not make unimportant the "outer world." I make a distinction between the outer world and the drama of the outer world. The drama is all human. The outer world includes all beings.

There are levels of consciousness, existence, perception, and evolution. Is one more important than the other? I may be able to enter that stream of consciousness that connects to all things, that is a beautiful wordless sense of well-being, but that does not equate to "all is well" in my opinion. It may be well for me when I am in that stream, but there are other levels of perception/consciousness where things are not well. By faith I presume you mean that this stream of well-being is what justifies "faith," in that at some point or level of experience all IS well seemingly. But what makes that level of consciousness or being more relevant than this one? This one is ephemeral, but that does not, in my mind, make it any less important than a million years or infinity. It all just IS. Would it be responsible to ignore one's accountability in any brief experience or interaction?

I cannot, no matter how much I connect to that stream of well-being myself, feel that all is well for the other beings in this existence. I can stretch my perceptions to comprehend the possible benefits of suffering for humans. But even then, there is just so much of it, and Ra did allude to there being anomalous and random catalyst and that they could not comment specifically because of it. I really can't know that people are without food and hungry without sadness. And I can't consider the very long list of suffering that humans put animals through, and plant life, insects—all other life but human without sadness. To me, this is not "all is well." And just because it's a fleeting life, and some think it's okay because we are evolving and learning lessons, and everything works out in the end, I question that stance. I am not a proponent of "the end justifies the means."

Maybe I'm just not evolved enough to be above the suffering. I have never claimed to be. But I challenge anyone to consider that all levels of being are equally relevant. Not just where we will be "down the road." Ra did talk about the concept of responsibility. Are we only to be responsible in certain circumstances, knowing that the greater reality is all bliss, and have faith that everything is okay within the context of that that greater reality? Faith would contend that you just have to have faith that it is. Well, that is circular thinking (or feeling), and great if you can believe it. For my part, I will continue to question and push boundaries and skate on the edges of consciousness.

I like your post because it does make a good point of illustrating that you can't just gloss over all the pain people are in. There is evil in our world. There's a tremendous amount of it. No matter how much illusion there is in witnessing it, or how much we hate thinking we are one with it. It exists even if it is simply a figment of my imagination. The idea of evil events unfolding still exists.

I think the way I can minimize all of the anguish is just the understanding than for however many years you've been alive, the current moment is spontaneous. I suppose you could say trying to minimize sections of time would be impossible. A "moment" isn't a defined measure of time and a second can be divided in to a trillion fractions, but my general idea is let's say in the current hour looking back on your entire life...or all life on Earth that has existed in the past has already transpired. It can be condensed in to the current moment, and because of the temporary nature of everything there's no need to dwell on any of what used to be. Past is past.

People are starving and will be going forward but if you weren't born in to a locality where something like that is occurring, I can't help but think that it isn't a part of your "souls" journey in achieving more self-recognition. It isn't a part of your consciousness unless you feel like making it a part of it.

I don't think it's incredibly selfish to think that saving the world... is not completely your responsibility.

I think something that has really underlyingly irked me about the way our planet is run is how much people charge each other for food.

The cost of food outside of a developed country is one of the biggest differences you'll see in the cost of living. Not electronics or cars, mostly rent and food. So what does that tell you? People in developed countries who make five times as much money on minimum wage, yet pay an enormous sum more in rent so the only money they oftentimes have left is for food.

But food could be so much cheaper...a lot of it is imported anyway so the cost of labor isn't really an issue. People being able to eat is just business to people though. "Why would I sell food if I wasn't making a decent profit? What's in it for me then?" the grocery companies think.

If the food prices were kept at their actual affordable costs, lower-income people in developed countries who already get the majority of all their money mandatorily taken from them as a part of their monthly bills..would never have to worry about what they eat or settle for over-processed crap and develop illnesses like diabetes and obesity or cancer. They'd have money left over they could actually donate to the starving people in countries where people are paid less. Or wow amazing idea--actually be able to save a portion of their own income so they don't go insane in a pandemic. It will likely never happen though. People are too selfish.

That meme about avocado toast comes to mind...lol "You damn millennials actually think you should be allowed to eat fruit and bread in the same meal?!" while a café in some other country would have it at a price where you could eat avocado toast all day.

These dynamics make me think that where you incarnate shaped/shapes what kind of issue you were presented with evolving around.

[ricdaw]

  
I expect this will be a very brief thread, but as an experiment, as an endeavour to resolve a mystery, I will put out the question: Is it possible here to have a discussion of faith without, instead, blabbering voluminously about belief?  Can faith be honored faithfully without the thread becoming a depository for credos and personal ideological speculation?  I ask this because this forum is entitled, in part, "Spiritual Developement," and there's not a whole lot more important in that department than faith.  And yet, these pages are heavily crowded with speculation and received dogma while being a bit light, in my view, on matters of inner communion with Divinity in one form or another.

It may be that very few of us have any faith substantial enough to mention, and if that's the case, then the mystery of why such discussion is so scant is easily solved.  Otherwise, I would heartily welcome here conversation on this particular topic.

So. how shall we define the distinction between faith and belief?  I offer you Q'uo's point of view.

Faith is often misunderstood among your peoples for they confuse faith with belief. Belief is always belief in something--perhaps a creed or a system of tenets that form a dogmatic system. A believer believes specific points or speaks to a specific creed.

Faith, on the other hand, has no content. It contains no knowledge. It is an attitude. It is the attitude that knows beyond doubt, regardless of the circumstances, that all is well. And the entity who is living a life in faith cannot be daunted by circumstance. Faith is an attitude which assumes that the infinite Creator, the higher self, and that self which planned this incarnation before taking flesh have provided ample opportunities for learning and for service, sometimes involved in learning is suffering. Sometimes there is sorrow and pain, yet one living a life in faith knows that that which is happening is perfect. It is precisely what is needed to advance spiritually and to be of service. Consequently, such an entity cooperates and harmonizes with circumstance and allows creativity and imagination to play a part in the flowing forward of events.

Faith does not recognize closed doors. Faith abides, patiently, trustingly and with infinite attention. For there shall come those hints, inklings and information from spirit that shall illuminate the situation within the present moment. And this faith is that which shall serve you well, my brother, as you learn to listen to and communicate with your guidance system.

Personally, I find this a gorgeous passage, and one which gives a simple, yet eloquent description of a spiritually well balanced relationship with life.  Do I "believe" it?  Yeah, I suppose, but more to the point I find that it resonates deeply in such a way that I can sense Spirit through its clarified vibrations.  I can feel multiple aspects of my energetic mosaic-of-self line up with one another to gesture that this verity resonates in their hearts, and it is good.

Whither does your faith lead you?  Where do you feel it?  What proportion of the day and night do you commune with it?  Is it just a peripheral concept floating in the breeze, or is it as central central to you as your spine?
  
  

Some facts that influence faith.

Some ETs had enough interest and love for us to try to communicate with us thru Carla.

There is absolutely no way to prove that Carla was channelling ETs.  Or that channelling is real.  Let alone that what those ETs said (as recorded in the Ra Material) is true.

But I have faith all three of those facts are true.

If you did not also believe these facts were true, I posit that you would not be in this forum, and you certainly wouldn't be posting here.

What can we do with just these three facts?  1.  ETs.  2. Channelling.  3. Ra Material content.

Well, we can accept reincarnation is real.

We can accept that we chose to incarnate here and now for a reason.

We can accept that we are Eternal Beings and that No Real Harm Happens Here.  

We can accept that after we die, we will see and know WHY IT ALL WAS.

And that's enough for me.  That's my faith, built on three simple facts.  

And no matter what happens in this world, to me or to others or to all of it, none of it makes any difference to these three facts.

ETs.
Channelling.
Ra Material content.

You may say that three facts is too slender a reed to hold up the weight of one's faith.  Is it?

I don't need anything else really.

[Diana]

Some facts that influence faith.

Some ETs had enough interest and love for us to try to communicate with us thru Carla.

There is absolutely no way to prove that Carla was channelling ETs.  Or that channelling is real.  Let alone that what those ETs said (as recorded in the Ra Material) is true.

But I have faith all three of those facts are true.

If you did not also believe these facts were true, I posit that you would not be in this forum, and you certainly wouldn't be posting here.

Well, in my case you are wrong. I don't care if ETs are real, or if channeling is real, or if Ra is real. I don't need proof of any of that. The only thing that matters to me is if there is value for me in the information. Validating the realness of it doesn't change that value, because I am my own authority, so I'm not looking to prove someone else's. I am not concerned with the outer proof; and those who need it are likely looking for authority outside of self.

I have been here since 2011, and still posting, and I still don't care to prove anything regarding the Ra Material. I find that I resonate with it. And continue to do so. That may change. But if someone "proved" tomorrow that Carla was faking the trance and she was saying all of it out of her own mind, how could that change the amazing value of the material? There is so much mystery in the world.

[ricdaw]

Some facts that influence faith.

Some ETs had enough interest and love for us to try to communicate with us thru Carla.

There is absolutely no way to prove that Carla was channelling ETs.  Or that channelling is real.  Let alone that what those ETs said (as recorded in the Ra Material) is true.

But I have faith all three of those facts are true.

If you did not also believe these facts were true, I posit that you would not be in this forum, and you certainly wouldn't be posting here.

Well, in my case you are wrong. I don't care if ETs are real, or if channeling is real, or if Ra is real. [I]if someone "proved" tomorrow that Carla was faking the trance and she was saying all of it out of her own mind, how could that change the amazing value of the material? There is so much mystery in the world.

Bravo!  True faith indeed.  

[sillypumpkins]

Well said Diana

[Sacred Fool]

Maybe I'm just not evolved enough to be above the suffering?

Well, heck, let's just try to help you move along in your evolution, shall we?  (he asked, wearing a wry grin)


First, consider this.

There is an underlying connection to all...[which], for me, is an acceptance of it all as it is out of the construct of time. There is a richness to existence that one can grasp at certain moments which blossoms into a feeling of great appreciation and humility. This acceptance is not based on some higher entity setting things in motion, or even myself as a higher being setting this life in motion, because I think everything is evolving all the time, simultaneously, like a big soup. [...] As everything evolves and changes, if one is accepting of the nature of the universe, one may work with it unimpeded by the underlying matrix of this existence.

So, here's my thought for you.  Perhaps the first level of this awareness is feeling the expansiveness of that total inter-connectedness in a personal way, then the next level is to discover it in a universal way where, as you state above, we're all maturing at our own rate while we're being cooked in the Cosmic Soup, outside of time?  If one can simply feel (not "know" in their head) that we're all maturing at our own rate, then perhaps one can feel that "All is well, and all manner of things shall be well" for all creatures.

I entirely agree with you that no one level of consciousness is inferior or superior to another.  In fact, the premise of the concept of wandering to lower densities is founded, in part, on the idea that the lower levels of consciousness are rich in opportunities to learn of and share love, wisdom and other things of transcendent value.  And in due course, all shall make its way along the Great Way of Transformation.

By faith I presume you mean that this stream of well-being is what justifies "faith," in that at some point or level of experience all IS well seemingly. But what makes that level of consciousness or being more relevant than this one? This one is ephemeral, but that does not, in my mind, make it any less important than a million years or infinity. It all just IS. Would it be responsible to ignore one's accountability in any brief experience or interaction?

Just to re-iterate the point, no, there is no justification, exactly as you said about Carla's channeling.  Like as you could never convince anyone of the inter-connectedness of things outside of time, no one can convince anyone regarding faith.  It is a profound inner knowing, and that's much of what makes it sacred.

How, then, you ask implicitly, does one balance the sacred awareness with the daily life experience of turmoil and pain and beauty and indifference?  Well, that, you might say, is the work of "a lifetime."


  
I want to add one more thing. This is an quote from the Q'uote in the OP.

Faith is an attitude which assumes that the infinite Creator, the higher self, and that self which planned this incarnation before taking flesh have provided ample opportunities for learning and for service, sometimes involved in learning is suffering. Sometimes there is sorrow and pain, yet one living a life in faith knows that that which is happening is perfect. It is precisely what is needed to advance spiritually and to be of service. Consequently, such an entity cooperates and harmonizes with circumstance and allows creativity and imagination to play a part in the flowing forward of events.

[sillypumpkins]

Whither does your faith lead you?  Where do you feel it?  What proportion of the day and night do you commune with it?  Is it just a peripheral concept floating in the breeze, or is it as central central to you as your spine?

My faith leads me to strange places sometimes. It can get real uncomfortable, and I almost feel like a child sometimes. Though, if I keep the faith, it's like I have a hand to hold. So I know it's okay.

I feel it in my chest. That's where it seems I can be open. If I come from the heart, maintaining that openness, the faith remains.

I commune with faith most often in dark times. To be honest, I sort of forget about it when things are bright. Hm

It's central to me and my growth. It fertilizes the soil of my mind body and spirit.

[Ray711]

Q'uo's words have beauty in them, but I don't think they're very practical for 3rd density existence. Such faith encounters a lot of stumbling blocks here, and I personally have not managed to be able to live by it in the way Q'uo describe.

Contrary to what Q'uo say, I find that having some form of belief is an absolute necessity in order to develop faith. I feel that the most obvious example of this is the notion of the existence of an after-life. All of us come into this world having no idea whether there is even anything after death. Choosing to believe, by faith, that there is indeed something else, and that there is a deeper meaning to life, already entails belief.

Once we take within ourselves this initial belief, there are even more beliefs or sub-beliefs that we must choose or reject within ourselves. Simply believing in a metaphysical reality doesn't say much about our polarity. The more important questions, I feel, are: If there is a Creator, is this a loving and compassionate Creator? Or an authoritarian one? And if it is a loving Creator, what does it mean to be fully loving, exactly? It is the way in which we answer these questions what dictates the many different shades of polarity that can take place within ourselves.

I have come to believe, in that sense, that faith is a matter of fantasizing. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but quite the opposite. We don't know or we don't remember what it is like to be loved by the Creator. For the most part, we can only fantasize about it. It is not a matter of how accurate our fantasies are in capturing the essence of the Creator, but rather, when these fantasies become beliefs that we live by, they become the lenses through which we see the world. In a sense, world religions are the collective fantasies that different groups of people have had regarding the nature of the Creator. Atheism is a fantasy too, in the sense that often times it is the product of a mind's desire to understand reality completely by logic and reason alone. In this sense, I consider fantasies and ideals to be extremely powerful tools in polarization, although also the very thing that can further keep one in the sinkhole of indifference.

Ra:

It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

The key is to make ourselves aware that a choice of belief is taking place, a belief that may be right or wrong, as opposed to deluding ourselves into thinking that we have come in possession of the undeniable truth. This is precisely what saves us from a dogmatic and intolerant kind of faith. And yet, this needs to be balanced with a determination and commitment to those values that have been chosen. It's a tough balance, for sure. But I strongly feel that we must still believe in something. If we don't make this choice of belief consciously, choosing the best and most wholesome of beliefs, our minds will make this choice for us, unconsciously, often times with a belief of less virtue, due to the necessity of the human mind to have a filter (any filter) through which to interpret life.

[Patrick]

There are large bits of time where I can experience what Q'uo has mentioned.  The longer you can truly maintain that state of faith in that all is well, the more real this becomes in your life.  And of course the more true it becomes, the longer you can maintain that state.  Which builds into finding yourself in abundance of everything and all being well for days/weeks in a row.

It brings you that a state where, when you are sick for example, you can put a smile on your lips and say thank you to the Universe for this experience and for life in general.

[Sacred Fool]

But I strongly feel that we must still believe in something. If we don't make this choice of belief consciously, choosing the best and most wholesome of beliefs, our minds will make this choice for us, unconsciously, often times with a belief of less virtue, due to the necessity of the human mind to have a filter (any filter) through which to interpret life.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your post.  I think the daylight between your view and that expressed in the Q'uo quotation has to do with, as you point out, the human mind.  The mind is an organ which largely assesses quantity and probability and, as you mentioned, practicality.  The faith Q'uo refers to does not live there.  It does not register in the human mind the way light waves don't register in your inner ear.  Instead, this kind of faith--not belief--is reached through through the non-physical heart, and until you look for it there, you'll have a very hard time tracking it.

On a personal level, there was a place upon my path where I dug enough into my own deep, deep internal distortions and realized that I was protecting myself from love, and that this greatly affected my presence in the world.  I felt like I had been a sort of puppet master, sending myself out into social situations, but never committing myself to being fully present because I was guarded against being hurt because I couldn't handle the free flow of love. 

After spending some time working my way through that and learning to handle a somewhat increased flow of love, my internal "understanding" of this faith thing became more apparent, became more real, as opposed to fantasized.  The freer flow of love itself tipped the balance and offered me this further level of an experience life enhanced with faith.......faith in love, not in thought.

I hope that helps give you some ideas for pathways to sniff out.
   

[unity100]

Faith is walking in the direction of some feint understanding that you can see in the horizon.

It is seeing that feint light behind all the obstacles in between yourself and the light, but being able to keep it in sight.

...

Getting there is another matter. Because 'just' keeping seeing that light in the horizon wont make you 'just' get there by the virtue of 'belief'.

Someone who cant find his/her way, someone who cant navigate around the obstacles or overcome them, someone who cant even plot a course towards the light, will just get sidetracked, thrown off the path or outright lost.

And that requires learning. Which means knowledge. Which means understanding what you are doing.

No dumb entity can just get somewhere without actually moving intelligently.

m/b/s is a complex and there is no way any entity can get anywhere by ignoring any of the parts of those complex.

Which means anti-intellectual obscurantism that tries to push out the mind part of that complex because there are so many uncomfortable situations and happenings that one has to deal with if s/he uses that part of that complex, will be just ignoring a major part of one's existence.

Which is the entire point and meaning of third density, the yellow ray in any case - "There are more than one entity. What is my relationship with these entities and what are their relationships with the other". That's what third density is.

And the choice is deciding on an approach to those relations - are you going to accept all entities as one and be of service to anything and anyone, or are you going to exploit everything that exists for your own benefit.

A 'naive' entity who cant even understand that s/he is exploiting someone or getting exploited, or that s/he is helping someone or getting helped, cannot even start to choose an alignment. S/he would repeat 3rd density until s/he becomes able to understand what is happening and choose.

...

So, no free lunch there in that direction either. All parts of the m/b/s complex must be sufficiently developed and in a minimum balance until any level of harvest can happen, including the third. There is no 'skirting' the harvest by ignoring/repressing one complex, and 'just' qualifying 'somehow' because one 'believes'.

There are no explanations, no back and forth, no 'but's. You just approach the light and the total nature of your m/b/s balance just shows itself. That's that.

You approach the light until you cant go more. You can only approach until the point where your mind / body / spirit complex can manage.

And that requires all the parts of the complex sufficiently developed and balanced, in a harmony that is balanced enough to handle the energy.

This includes the mind complex and capacity to think.

The vibration in that light you are approaching includes all that is relevant to 3rd density, and this includes what you can understand with your mind. Any mental blockage you have that blocks the flow of energy will just make you stop at that point.

Choosing to repress your mind complex and resorting to obscurantism/denial is one such blockage.

Someone who chose to "enhance his/her life with 'faith', not 'thought'" and shut off any intellectual discourse, person, environment, situation will just stop at that point, without the nebulous 'faith' being any factor in the equation.

And that wont even pass the point of 4d harvestability, since that person basically rejects and shuts off 'intellectual' entities and 'intellectual' energies and cant accept them. Which is what love is.

[Ray711]

But I strongly feel that we must still believe in something. If we don't make this choice of belief consciously, choosing the best and most wholesome of beliefs, our minds will make this choice for us, unconsciously, often times with a belief of less virtue, due to the necessity of the human mind to have a filter (any filter) through which to interpret life.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your post.  I think the daylight between your view and that expressed in the Q'uo quotation has to do with, as you point out, the human mind.  The mind is an organ which largely assesses quantity and probability and, as you mentioned, practicality.  The faith Q'uo refers to does not live there.  It does not register in the human mind the way light waves don't register in your inner ear.  Instead, this kind of faith--not belief--is reached through through the non-physical heart, and until you look for it there, you'll have a very hard time tracking it.

On a personal level, there was a place upon my path where I dug enough into my own deep, deep internal distortions and realized that I was protecting myself from love, and that this greatly affected my presence in the world.  I felt like I had been a sort of puppet master, sending myself out into social situations, but never committing myself to being fully present because I was guarded against being hurt because I couldn't handle the free flow of love. 

After spending some time working my way through that and learning to handle a somewhat increased flow of love, my internal "understanding" of this faith thing became more apparent, became more real, as opposed to fantasized.  The freer flow of love itself tipped the balance and offered me this further level of an experience life enhanced with faith.......faith in love, not in thought.

I hope that helps give you some ideas for pathways to sniff out.
   

Thank you for sharing, peregrine. I had some little experiment earlier today where I tried just feeling this notion of "all is well", in the line that you and Patrick mentioned, and it felt like something was there, something easier than actively working with the mind, which is quite exhausting at times.

I think it's good also if the mind is given material to accept such things, though. I'm thinking especially in instances of trauma or extreme hardship. In such instances, the mind just can't help but desperately seek explanations or a framework that gives meaning to what has happened. Without a foundation of beliefs focused on the spiritual aspect of life, the mind will find it too easy to give in to the temptation that life is cruel, and suffering plentiful and meaningless.

[Sacred Fool]

I had some little experiment earlier today where I tried just feeling this notion of "all is well", in the line that you and Patrick mentioned, and it felt like something was there, something easier than actively working with the mind, which is quite exhausting at times.

AWESOME, Dude!!!  I am so very happy for you.  Keep it up.

I think it's good also if the mind is given material to accept such things, though. I'm thinking especially in instances of trauma or extreme hardship. In such instances, the mind just can't help but desperately seek explanations or a framework that gives meaning to what has happened. Without a foundation of beliefs focused on the spiritual aspect of life, the mind will find it too easy to give in to the temptation that life is cruel, and suffering plentiful and meaningless.

I think you mean that a mental approach to the concept can be a stepping stone to the actual experience, yes?  Like reading a book about Hawaii can be a warm up (so to speak) for actually going there?  Sure, but--ugh--it is so so so so easy for the mind to then think that the "book" is good enough when the mental experience is chicken feed compared to the internal experience of angelic repose. 
  

[Ymarsakar]

But I strongly feel that we must still believe in something. If we don't make this choice of belief consciously, choosing the best and most wholesome of beliefs, our minds will make this choice for us, unconsciously, often times with a belief of less virtue, due to the necessity of the human mind to have a filter (any filter) through which to interpret life.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your post.  I think the daylight between your view and that expressed in the Q'uo quotation has to do with, as you point out, the human mind.  The mind is an organ which largely assesses quantity and probability and, as you mentioned, practicality.  The faith Q'uo refers to does not live there.  It does not register in the human mind the way light waves don't register in your inner ear.  Instead, this kind of faith--not belief--is reached through through the non-physical heart, and until you look for it there, you'll have a very hard time tracking it.

On a personal level, there was a place upon my path where I dug enough into my own deep, deep internal distortions and realized that I was protecting myself from love, and that this greatly affected my presence in the world.  I felt like I had been a sort of puppet master, sending myself out into social situations, but never committing myself to being fully present because I was guarded against being hurt because I couldn't handle the free flow of love. 

After spending some time working my way through that and learning to handle a somewhat increased flow of love, my internal "understanding" of this faith thing became more apparent, became more real, as opposed to fantasized.  The freer flow of love itself tipped the balance and offered me this further level of an experience life enhanced with faith.......faith in love, not in thought.

I hope that helps give you some ideas for pathways to sniff out.
   

Thank you for sharing, peregrine. I had some little experiment earlier today where I tried just feeling this notion of "all is well", in the line that you and Patrick mentioned, and it felt like something was there, something easier than actively working with the mind, which is quite exhausting at times.

I think it's good also if the mind is given material to accept such things, though. I'm thinking especially in instances of trauma or extreme hardship. In such instances, the mind just can't help but desperately seek explanations or a framework that gives meaning to what has happened. Without a foundation of beliefs focused on the spiritual aspect of life, the mind will find it too easy to give in to the temptation that life is cruel, and suffering plentiful and meaningless.

https://acim.org/workbook-lessons-overvi...-contents/

[Minyatur]

The 'All is well' notion is really a tricky subject. It does not mean that all experiences are pretty and everything feels good at all times, but instead that there is some sort of safety background to what we experience.

An example, which is quite in the image of the Creator experiencing itself as us, is when we go to sleep and dream. Your dreams won't necessarily always be pretty, there will be nice things and ugly things. You may have to struggle for your sense of survival, see ugly sides of yourself, see ugly sides of your other-selves, experience extreme fear, loss and so on, but beneath all of it there is the place where you can wake up from these dreams and go back to yourself. So maybe if you have a kid that had a lot of nightmares and became fearful of their sleep, it is somewhat all that you can tell them that all is well and that they will always come back to this side of things. In our dreams, we are surrendered to process ourselves in ways we cannot control and I think this is somewhat what this experience is also about, a surrendering to see the truthful reflection of our heart in what is a strange dream.

In the same way, I think that all is well is really just this at the Creator's level also. However bad one's life is or the Earthly experience is, there is a hidden truth beneath it all of your true identity as the One Infinite Creator. When you wake up from it all and see that you are all that is and will ever be, then all that remains is this 'All is well' and you willingly move back into the world of illusions because you have nothing to lose and instead everything to gain from it. So I think part of connecting to that all is well is really about connecting to that truth of safety deep within yourself that is hidden when you are asleep. You cannot really connect to that all is well when focused on your external reality, except maybe if you are really able to focus on the whole of things and not just the aspects with which you struggle upon. It is really when turning inward that you can connect to that place where you come from. If you really wanted to attempt to connect to it through your external reality, then I guess the best bet is probably the starry sky at night, as it somewhat brings you back to your infinite nature that is both empty and full, with a lot of distance in-between things and of light that fills every corner of the dark. It is hard though to find good places where you can have a quality experience of the night sky, need to run away from human civilization, while the hidden source from which you come from is forever accessible right at the center of yourself.

[Sacred Fool]

... but instead that there is some sort of safety background to what we experience.

I appreciate what you're trying to say, other-self, but I believe I perceive a fatal flaw, so to say, in your presentation, namely mortality.  This thing that you call "you" is but a construct and there is no real safety for a construct, not here nor "where you come from."  It all eventually succumbs to eternity.  Do "you" agree with "me?"  Can you swim here without a flotation device?  (If you can accept the crude analogy.)

I would suggest that the sense of All Is Well really begins in so-called adepthood (meaning--to moi--a somewhat advanced state of faith and will) where one learns to straddle the weird interface of the inner and outer planes and begins to sense an experience of eternity.

74.7 Questioner: I’m not sure if I understand this. The question is how do disciplines of the personality feed the indigo-ray energy center and affect the power of the white magician. Does that question make sense?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

74.8 Questioner: Would you answer it please?

Ra: I am Ra. We would be happy to answer this query. We understood the previous query as being of other import. The indigo ray is the ray of the adept. A great deal of the answer you seek is in this sentence. There is an identification between the crystallization of that energy center and the improvement of the working of the mind/body/spirit as it begins to transcend space/time balancing and to enter the combined realms of space/time and time/space.

    
I expect we have to rely upon vague intimations of pure faith up until we develope the skill to balance ourselves so beautifully as to straddle time and eternity.