Why, in the illusion, sufference was chosen?

[Sunclarity]

I believe I understand it minimally and see that sufference is helpful. It's a motivator. When we are healthy, we don't care whether we are aware of great clarity/love. When we are sick, we desperately want to feel better, we want love more than ever before. So, sufference intensifies our wish to love. But, I was thinking, it didn't have to be sufference. When we don't want to do something, we can give ourselves punishment. We can make us do sit-ups. Stare at a wall, etc. But we can also give us reward. That is to say, since intensity is the key, instead of great pain, great joy would do the job of intensiying equally well. Or so I think. I suppose I can ask this question in another way now. If joy can work as motivator to love as well as sufference, why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

[AnthroHeart]

Would you call slight pain suffering?

Because in things like trying to transform my body, I can even enjoy a little pain.

Or when energetically fusing with the one I love. Sometimes that hurts. But I love it.

[curio_city]

I believe I understand it minimally and see that sufference is helpful. It's a motivator. When we are healthy, we don't care whether we are aware of great clarity/love. When we are sick, we desperately want to feel better, we want love more than ever before. So, sufference intensifies our wish to love. But, I was thinking, it didn't have to be sufference. When we don't want to do something, we can give ourselves punishment. We can make us do sit-ups. Stare at a wall, etc. But we can also give us reward. That is to say, since intensity is the key, instead of great pain, great joy would do the job of intensiying equally well. Or so I think. I suppose I can ask this question in another way now. If joy can work as motivator to love as well as sufference, why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

I think it's really up to each creator why suffering is chosen, since all individual experiences are personal and chosen by each creator.

Through great stress one can experience great growth, and in growing through difficulty one can offer greater and perhaps more unique service to others. I think that no matter the degree of suffering, it can be useful to find gratitude for the opportunities it presents; in this way, the individual may be primed on a chemical and perhaps epigenetic level to enjoy growth instead of deterioration.

[ostatni dan]

I think that we are in a state of joy in between incarnations, given that love is the language of the universe. Thats why we get bored being in constant joy and we want to come here, make mistakes and solve problems, learn stuff. Also worth saying that we are in the world where fear and suffering are triumphing because it has to be a challenge to consciously chose love and positivity over negativity (unless you want to be sts, but either way its chosing one polarity over the other). You have to suffer enough to slowly chose ways in which you suffer less and then make peace with it. I believe that in next densities you work with joy as a catalyst.

[Sacred Fool]

Is it possible that you might be causing yourself a bit more suffering by dwelling on the topic of suffering?

The so-called Creator (not a being who thinks and chooses) is understood as a function of consciousness. Suffering, joy and the rest are just experiences along the way: The Great Way of becoming fully conscious, of becoming identified with consciousness itself.

So, it may be that focusing your attention on consciousness will lead you out of the confinement which prompts you to focus on self-pity--I mean--on suffering.

But maybe not. I don't know. I'm not conscious enough to know answers to such queries.

[RaEatsFoodstuffs]

I'm really not a big fan of the veil that occurs in third density. Didn't Ra say that in one universe the logos experimented with no veil? I believe the growth of entities was slower using that method but still....I would rather have a slower growth than genocide, murder and other immense suffering. I don't know, I would still have to think this over.

[AnthroHeart]

I would like a veil still, but less of one. Even opening up to Intelligent Infinity and experiencing Nirvana, I still have a veil.

[RaEatsFoodstuffs]

I would like a veil still, but less of one. Even opening up to Intelligent Infinity and experiencing Nirvana, I still have a veil.

The most interesting part would be to know your past lives. I know people can do past life regressions but have you opened up to this through meditations? Some people have very interesting stories of past lives in Pleiades or Atlantis, etc.

And a random question. Where did the human form originate? Some people say it originated from Lyra.

[AnthroHeart]

Well, I can channel my past lives and if I tune in I can see them.
But it's not like I'm looking at an open book where it's just all there BAM in my face.
I have to search for it, but I always find it.

Oh neat, I was a wizard in Atlantis. Worked with animals, crocodiles I think. I think I was dark though seeing how we could train them for war or something.

I have been an anthro in many past lives. The ironic thing is I desperately wanted to be human in one life at least. And in this life, I'm desperately wanting to be what I was.
Or sort of what I was. The species I want to be (my avatar) is a relatively "new" species.

[RaEatsFoodstuffs]

Well, I can channel my past lives and if I tune in I can see them.
But it's not like I'm looking at an open book where it's just all there BAM in my face.
I have to search for it, but I always find it.

Oh neat, I was a wizard in Atlantis. Worked with animals, crocodiles I think. I think I was dark though seeing how we could train them for war or something.

I have been an anthro in many past lives. The ironic thing is I desperately wanted to be human in one life at least. And in this life, I'm desperately wanting to be what I was.
Or sort of what I was. The species I want to be (my avatar) is a relatively "new" species.

Sorry, not to go too off topic but:

That's really interesting. And quite a few people(adepts) have verified seeing the feline type beings before. And also, if we go back to Egypt you can see statues of them there as well...but I'm sure there are different types.

[Infinite Unity]

I believe I understand it minimally and see that sufference is helpful. It's a motivator. When we are healthy, we don't care whether we are aware of great clarity/love. When we are sick, we desperately want to feel better, we want love more than ever before. So, sufference intensifies our wish to love. But, I was thinking, it didn't have to be sufference. When we don't want to do something, we can give ourselves punishment. We can make us do sit-ups. Stare at a wall, etc. But we can also give us reward. That is to say, since intensity is the key, instead of great pain, great joy would do the job of intensiying equally well. Or so I think. I suppose I can ask this question in another way now. If joy can work as motivator to love as well as sufference, why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

The illusion is based on distortion. To have a reality of manyness, distortion is necessary. All of reality is created through the distorting of Oneness, the true reality. The One Creator is very ambitious. All you see is The One there is no other. There is no other to ask “is this ok?, is this acceptable?”. The One Creator will explore every potential path.


The Creator explores every potential path due to opportunity/potential. There is no experience or anything learned that The Creator cannot use in a positive sense.

Love is the main conduit, with everything else being a substrate of Love. The substrates are limited in a sense that they always rollover or return to the source:Love. Loves potential is unlimited.

The Creator did not create suffering, The Creator under went suffering. Instead of thinking everything is designed. Some things are natural. As in there origins predate the illusion.

[AnthroHeart]

I believe I understand it minimally and see that sufference is helpful. It's a motivator. When we are healthy, we don't care whether we are aware of great clarity/love. When we are sick, we desperately want to feel better, we want love more than ever before. So, sufference intensifies our wish to love. But, I was thinking, it didn't have to be sufference. When we don't want to do something, we can give ourselves punishment. We can make us do sit-ups. Stare at a wall, etc. But we can also give us reward. That is to say, since intensity is the key, instead of great pain, great joy would do the job of intensiying equally well. Or so I think. I suppose I can ask this question in another way now. If joy can work as motivator to love as well as sufference, why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

The illusion is based on distortion. To have a reality of manyness, distortion is necessary. All of reality is created through the distorting of Oneness, the true reality. The One Creator is very ambitious. All you see is The One there is no other. There is no other to ask “is this ok?, is this acceptable?”. The One Creator will explore every potential path.


The Creator explores every potential path due to opportunity/potential. There is no experience or anything learned that The Creator cannot use in a positive sense.

That's awesome.

So does this mean Creator has no taboos?

[Infinite Unity]

I understand The Creator to be fluid, moving, feeling, Learning. I believe the moment marked as “The Big Bang” was when The Creator accomplished, in a macro sense, what we are trying to accomplish. Victory.

I believe The Creators primordial singularity was earmarked by depression, loneliness, and suffering. However The Creator still harvested Love somehow. It’s state/configuration “became/is” Oneness.

I believe Love was discovered in an moment/experience, and was much like all great discoveries; unexpectedly.

The “taboos” are The Great Mystery; Who Am I? Who are you? What is Creators Origin? Does Creator end/ have end?

[AnthroHeart]

So the Big Bang was the One Original Thought?

Will there be a Second Original Thought?

[sillypumpkins]

I'm really not a big fan of the veil that occurs in third density. Didn't Ra say that in one universe the logos experimented with no veil? I believe the growth of entities was slower using that method but still....I would rather have a slower growth than genocide, murder and other immense suffering. I don't know, I would still have to think this over.

I think the thing about like.... Creation and the Logos and stuff, and experience in general, is that genocide, murder, and war are just that, to the Creator. They're experiences.

Of course, to our dualistic perspectives, this is sort of baffling and frankly..... not fun for us at times. BUT, to the One Creator (that is, you, by the way ) it's a valuable opportunity to learn about Oneself. In the most supreme way, in a sense....

that's just my perspective

[AnthroHeart]

I'm really not a big fan of the veil that occurs in third density. Didn't Ra say that in one universe the logos experimented with no veil? I believe the growth of entities was slower using that method but still....I would rather have a slower growth than genocide, murder and other immense suffering. I don't know, I would still have to think this over.

I think the thing about like.... Creation and the Logos and stuff, and experience in general, is that genocide, murder, and war are just that, to the Creator. They're experiences.

Of course, to our dualistic perspectives, this is sort of baffling and frankly..... not fun for us at times. BUT, to the One Creator (that is, you, by the way   ) it's a valuable opportunity to learn about Oneself. In the most supreme way, in a sense....

that's just my perspective

7.15 Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization. Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum as the problem of spiritual entropy causes them to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes. Their power is the same as ours. The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

Those seeking intelligent infinity through the use of service to self create the same amount of power but, as we said, have constant difficulty because of the concept of separation which is implicit in the manifestations of the service to self which involve power over others. This weakens and eventually disintegrates the energy collected by such mind/body/spirit complexes who call the Orion group and the social memory complexes which comprise the Orion group.

It should be noted, carefully pondered, and accepted, that the Law of One is available to any social memory complex which has decided to strive together for any seeking of purpose, be it service to others or service to self. The laws, which are the primal distortions of the Law of One, then are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of those choices freely made. Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly.

[Minyatur]

I believe I understand it minimally and see that sufference is helpful. It's a motivator. When we are healthy, we don't care whether we are aware of great clarity/love. When we are sick, we desperately want to feel better, we want love more than ever before. So, sufference intensifies our wish to love. But, I was thinking, it didn't have to be sufference. When we don't want to do something, we can give ourselves punishment. We can make us do sit-ups. Stare at a wall, etc. But we can also give us reward. That is to say, since intensity is the key, instead of great pain, great joy would do the job of intensiying equally well. Or so I think. I suppose I can ask this question in another way now. If joy can work as motivator to love as well as sufference, why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

There are many teachers and suffering is just one of them.

So I think the question is more about what does suffering, as a teacher, put an emphasis upon specifially.

[curio_city]

So the Big Bang was the One Original Thought?

Will there be a Second Original Thought?

Interesting question. I see the Original Thought as all that there is -- everything in space/time, time/space, and beyond. It is happening right now just as it has happened always and will always continue to occur. In infinity, things simply are.

[Infinite Unity]

The Big Bang is a strata of The Original Thought. The Original thought is Love which creates Light. The intelligence behind One aspect is the same for all other aspects. You can see The One Intelligence by examining any facet, as the aspect contains the all, and all contains the aspect.

I would say Infinite Intelligence(s)/free will is the first distortion or product of Love, With Light being equally created bound up in this momento. With what we think of as “entities” being literally the Love, Will, and memory of The Creator. Prior to Love/Light there was no data/memory. Science even demonstrates this.

[AnthroHeart]

Ok, so do you have any idea of what the next Octave may be about, if this Octave is love/light?

[Infinite Unity]

Ok, so do you have any idea of what the next Octave may be about, if this Octave is love/light?

Love/Light is all octaves. No one knows what is in store in the next octave. However I know it’s something super special. Think communion, community of Logo(s). With this octave as a medium of expression/creativity. It’s like the culmination of the ultimate reality of manyness. Where “advancements” are outdated, and soul expression, communion, and (growth through sub-octaves are paramount).

[AnthroHeart]

I think this Octave is a simulation, and next Octave you're outside the simulation where it's real.

[flofrog]

Let’s not forget Earth ( Terra, Gaia... ) welcomes us here as third density entities.  its not just our 3D experiment, it’s Hers and everyone else outside is watching..

[AnthroHeart]

Let’s not forget Earth ( Terra, Gaia... ) welcomes us here as third density entities.  its not just our 3D experiment, it’s Hers and everyone else outside is watching..  

It's actually Earth's 4D experiment. She is in 4D.

[Infinite Unity]

Let’s not forget Earth ( Terra, Gaia... ) welcomes us here as third density entities.  its not just our 3D experiment, it’s Hers and everyone else outside is watching..

Gaia to us is comparable to our cells to us. In a similar fashion Gaia is apart of a larger whole.

[Patrick]

...why did the creator choose to distort, to suffer?

Great synchronicity.

I am somewhat exploring this topic in this thread: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...pid=281147

I do not believe the Creator chose to suffer.  It came as a surprise that was not planned for.

[unity100]

Creator does not choose anything as such in particular. It just provides the grounds for the existence. All the rest, is created by entities themselves.

[Patrick]

Creator does not choose anything as such in particular. It just provides the grounds for the existence. All the rest, is created by entities themselves.

I've pondered this as well and came to the conclusion that all the choices made by all entities is really the Creator making choices.  Since there is no one else.  But yes some choices are only made when the Creator is hiding itself from itself.

[Aion]

The Infinite Creator is simultaneously making every choice possible that is available, we are but walking through the afterglow of this occurrence as figments of the occurrence.