Loving without expectation of return

[Glow]

I see this a lot in the Law of One. The channeling I was reading just now actually was in regards to a spouse, but certainly that could be extended to friends too, strangers are easiest not to expect anything in return from.

The love is there and it’s in your nature to love this way but society teaches us that is wrong. I actually got called a people pleaser this summer because I tolerated a friend’s issues with patience and compassion instead of behaving coldly as they had.

My relationships friend or spouse of course there is 2 way love but in some dynamics one will often love more than the other is capable.

I resonate with just letting that heart be open and not considering the expectation of return but sometime I find they do. They become uncomfortable because they see they are not as loving, it will often bother me a bit too only being human and needing shelter myself sometimes but not enough to change how I love.

I’m just curious how everyone here deals with the diametrically opposed ways of love. The worldly tit for tat way or the much bigger picture unconditional it is what it is no point denying it kind of way.

I find this is honestly my biggest catalyst. I mean I have experienced some doozies that would make the news or a movie of the week but this troubles me most.

I guess because it is the choice. Do we love anyways. The answer being yes but then the world paints you as flawed, weak, defective for loving when the world says we should close our heart and move along?

Just thought others might have similar wonderings.
Love to you

[AnthroHeart]

I just learn that if you don't respond to aggression with aggression, it can diffuse the situation.

I'm learning to see love more in my mom despite our troubled past.

It has come through a lot of releasing.

[Glow]

I actually thought of you and your mother.
Thankfully I don’t have aggression to deal with though I did have that in my youth with family members. You are right aggression only escalates aggression.

I’m glad you are learning how to handle that catalyst better.

Love is so beautiful to bad the ego makes it so hard.

[kristina]

I see this a lot in the Law of One. The channeling I was reading just now actually was in regards to a spouse, but certainly that could be extended to friends too, strangers are easiest not to expect anything in return from.

The love is there and it’s in your nature to love this way but society teaches us that is wrong. I actually got called a people pleaser this summer because I tolerated a friend’s issues with patience and compassion instead of behaving coldly as they had.

My relationships friend or spouse of course there is 2 way love but in some dynamics one will often love more than the other is capable.

I resonate with just letting that heart be open and not considering the expectation of return but sometime I find they do. They become uncomfortable because they see they are not as loving, it will often bother me a bit too only being human and needing shelter myself sometimes but not enough to change how I love.

I’m just curious how everyone here deals with the diametrically opposed ways of love. The worldly tit for tat way or the much bigger picture unconditional it is what it is no point denying it kind of way.

I find this is honestly my biggest catalyst. I mean I have experienced some doozies that would make the news or a movie of the week but this troubles me most.

I guess because it is the choice. Do we love anyways. The answer being yes but then why do I feel flawed, weak, defective for loving when the world says I should close my heart and move along?

Just thought others might have similar wonderings.
Love to you

Hi Glow! The "world" will always respond with a sarcastic undertone when you respond with love. And girlfriend, that's why we are here! Whether we are positive seekers or Wanderers, we are here to show it can be done and it's healing to love another human being. There are going to be those who will say things like, "I don't know how you put up with that, I wouldn't waste my time". You living by example you are showing another the ways of love and you are catalyst for the one you are assisting and to the one who is peeved by your example. The best most fortifying part, is that you are reaching toward the Creator when you love and love for no condition. There is something so energizing by the act of loving one another. I get it all the time...people being peeved by me because I can give to others something they cannot even express to themselves. It's sad because the person who withholds love from others, withholds love for self. A self inflicted wound. Horrible! You did the most loving thing in my personal opinion. You can gauge how well you did from the abundance of dissagreement you get from the world. So, you're on the right track! Good for you Sister! Blessings!
Also, good for Gemini for trying to work out a difficulty with your Mom. Parents who hurt their children provide a huge learning curve in the way of catalyst. To forgive them and try to work with them in emotional repair of a torn relationship is certainly beneficial to the STO path and to opening your green ray. It's huge catalyst! To me, it is VERY confusing when a parent tears down a child emotionally. It's even more huge when we can be the person who begins the repair work.
My heart goes to you guys.

[BridgesToLight]

My decision to marry my husband was the catalyst for my earth based reality breaking apart.
Ten plus years of a emotionally devastated existence, moving through wet concrete and eventually succumbing by completely shutting down.
My poor mind couldn't take anymore.
I still functioned, I brought a beautiful daughter into this world and somehow managed to care for her, but I was the living dead for a long time.
A nearly fatal illness finally reconnected me to Source.
My entire life was spent rating myself through other's eyes, which resulted in a shell without a reason.
My doubt in myself was/is a direct correlation to doubt in all other humans and doubt in the Source.  No wonder I disconnected, I literally had no lifeline, no rudder, no anchor, just bobbing along fearing, hating, denying it all.
As I find deeper connections to Source, I find deeper strength in myself.
We wounded ones should strive to remember, we ARE worthy, if there is but one person worthy, then we ALL are.  Either all, or nothing, in this there is no in between.

You all are beautiful, gorgeous, worthy and divine.
When someone says something that makes you doubt yourself, send them love, too.
But use the catalyst of your pain to point the way away from those that hinder you, towards those that support you.
It's tough being an island in this world. Well, for now.
But it's a job we apparently volunteered for.
As I keep having past life memories dropped on me, I now doubt that this is the first time I've stepped up to the plate.
You are worthy, and loving another human in spite of themselves is the way we ascend.
Those that hurt you just haven't decided, yet, to come with us.
Sending you so much love right now.  Hugs.

[Loki]

I see this a lot in the Law of One. The channeling I was reading just now actually was in regards to a spouse, but certainly that could be extended to friends too, strangers are easiest not to expect anything in return from.

The love is there and it’s in your nature to love this way but society teaches us that is wrong. I actually got called a people pleaser this summer because I tolerated a friend’s issues with patience and compassion instead of behaving coldly as they had.

My relationships friend or spouse of course there is 2 way love but in some dynamics one will often love more than the other is capable.

I resonate with just letting that heart be open and not considering the expectation of return but sometime I find they do. They become uncomfortable because they see they are not as loving, it will often bother me a bit too only being human and needing shelter myself sometimes but not enough to change how I love.

I’m just curious how everyone here deals with the diametrically opposed ways of love. The worldly tit for tat way or the much bigger picture unconditional it is what it is no point denying it kind of way.

I find this is honestly my biggest catalyst. I mean I have experienced some doozies that would make the news or a movie of the week but this troubles me most.

I guess because it is the choice. Do we love anyways. The answer being yes but then why do I feel flawed, weak, defective for loving when the world says I should close my heart and move along?

Just thought others might have similar wonderings.
Love to you

If you ask me love is not a two ways street but rather a personal manifestation of the Creator in us, independent of the reaction of the receiver of our love. There are only two fundamental kinds of love: love for self and lover for the other-self. Let me explain:

When we help or service someone we are attracted to, more or less we service ourselves because we are gratified by that person being in our life. We do not care if that person needs us because we need them. Gifting the person we are in love with means after all gifting ourselves. This is in my opinion and indirect form of love for self which mistakenly confused for generosity towards other-selves.

True love is the service you freely give to someone in need despite you being uncomfortable while doing it. For example if you volunteer in a hospital or in a retirement home and you help people in need which might not be pleasant to be around because of their condition, means you give love to other selves making other-selves higher priority than your own person. This is fundamentally giving unconditioned love. Helping is loving.

In our society there is a big confusion between being in-love deeply emerged in our illusion and fundamentally egoistic because of expected reciprocity, and love generous and unconditional which is of divine nature.  

[Cainite]

I believe in you, glow!

[flofrog]

it seems so difficult at certain times to move into love, complete, unconditional. And yet every time we completely do, it feels so simple then, life seems so simple suddenly

love you Glow !

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Perhaps your actual lesson is to love the self you see in the other enough to set boundaries and stop enabling them to mistreat themselves by mistreating you. That's how Agua frames my feiendship breakup as being the right call to make. Don't give them any more chances past a certain point. It may seem cold, and perhaps it is, but it may be what they truly need to grow. Just do it more lovingly than my friend did.

[Glow]

I’m not really talking about one situation.

The whole world operates on this tit for tat mentality.
All the self help stuff is about not giving to others what they wouldn’t give to you but that isn’t my nature. Even with strangers, or acquaintances.

It apparently isn’t also in the law of ones words the way to love.

The world considers it weakness but it truly requires strength when someone treats you maliciously or just selfishly and you stay in your compassionate awareness.

Boundaries are fine do not give more than you wish to, but only giving on expectations of return isn’t love or aligned with the wisdom of the Law of One.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

I am grateful to you for maintaining your compassionate awareness with me. It means a lot. I know I'm an a****** sometimes. Thanks for never giving up on me or slamming the door in my face.

[Glow]

(((Hug))) That is very sweet.
You don’t have to thank me. Thank you.

[Louisabell]

People pleasing is caused by a fawn response to fear (it is one of the four f's - flight, fight, freeze and fawn). It is intended to disarm the other by supplication. Only you truly know if you act from fear or love.

Love does not demand any deeds. It is unkind to allow a person to engage in abuse. The deepest parts of ourselves do not distinguish the self from other, so any abuse is also committed to the self.

I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply.

Thoughts?

[flofrog]

People pleasing is caused by a fawn response to fear (it is one of the four f's - flight, fight, freeze and fawn). It is intended to disarm the other by supplication. Only you truly know if you act from fear or love.

Love does not demand any deeds. It is unkind to allow a person to engage in abuse. The deepest parts of ourselves do not distinguish the self from other, so any abuse is also committed to the self.

I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply.

Thoughts?

Louisabell for me it stopped when I started to see more humor to the whole experience . But it was also after having passed through heavier things. So it might have been concomitant with new found lightness ?

Suddenly you sort of see your way through things and unconditional love becomes way more accessible. You don’t think really anymore about it. I don’t know if this helps, but I sure hope so

[Navaratna]

I don't think you'll ever find peace if you're going to worry about the fact that people aren't perfectly the way you want them to be. I tell people that all the time. I do get what you mean about how it's a tit-for-tat world.

If someone gives you negativity they usually aren't worth having in your life, but then again it isn't always so easy if you can't live alone or need to go to work/family that are stuck in your life. You can do your best to minimize it.

if a person is a kind of person that solely cares about what they get from you, it's usually pretty obvious and they aren't the kind of person worth having around. Having real friends means that they enjoy your presence. Not just getting what they want from you. Trying to satisfy people by giving them things they want so that they tolerate hanging out with you is really not a way to live. it's just a way to wind up getting used and tossed aside.

That's what I think the generation needs to be told but then again, we live in a consumerist society. Of course the city council wants your business, that's the entire point of you being around in their eyes lol

Also, the entire concept of this community makes my mind go back to this clip. how your neighbors would respond to your love.

[Louisabell]

Louisabell  for me it stopped when I started to see more humor to the whole experience . But it was also after having passed  through heavier things. So it might have been concomitant with new found lightness ?

Suddenly you sort of see your way through things and unconditional love becomes way more accessible. You don’t think really anymore  about it. I don’t know if this helps, but I sure hope so

Thanks flofrog, it helps immensely.    I can so see you having such an overflow of love that it wouldn't occur to you to need any back to fill any deficits.

[Louisabell]

I don't think you'll ever find peace if you're going to worry about the fact that people aren't perfectly the way you want them to be. I tell people that all the time. I do get what you mean about how it's a tit-for-tat world.

If someone gives you negativity they usually aren't worth having in your life, but then again it isn't always so easy if you can't live alone or need to go to work/family that are stuck in your life. You can do your best to minimize it.

if a person is a kind of person that solely cares about what they get from you, it's usually pretty obvious and they aren't the kind of person worth having around. Having real friends means that they enjoy your presence. Not just getting what they want from you. Trying to satisfy people by giving them things they want so that they tolerate hanging out with you is really not a way to live. it's just a way to wind up getting used and tossed aside.

That's what I think the generation needs to be told but then again, we live in a consumerist society. Of course the city council wants your business, that's the entire point of you being around in their eyes lol

Also, the entire concept of this community makes my mind go back to this clip. how your neighbors would respond to your love.

Lol. Thank you Navaratna. I agree with your insights.

However when Ra spoke about Carla learning the lesson of loving without expectation of return, it was in response to her upbringing. It's one thing to not expect love back from acquaintances and the like, it's quite another to love those very close to you in a way that does not look for a reciprocal. I think it is quite human to seek out mirrors for our loving nature.

[flow]

...I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply...

Louisabell, lessons of love are really difficult and tough ones. Don't be discouraged.
Imagine a sparrow tweets close to you while you passing by. Does it make you smile? Does it tickle your heart with a touch of appreciation for this little joyous creature, if for a moment? This little creature is a spark of One Infinite Creator, just like you. A few steps behind you may be. Now, i would guess that you just love that creature and you don't expect anything from it in return. You may do the same with people. That could be your service: to be an example of someone who eadiates love, acceptance and forgiveness. Love is not something we are capable by default. We have to learn how to love. For many of us we have to learn what Love is in the first place. Only then we can begin to learn how to open our hearts and love unconditionally. For many this quests starts with love to ourselves, because acceptance and love to yourself is probably one of the hardest catalyst, considering many are born within families where parents dudb't learn lessons of Love before giving birth to thier children. Childhood is rough for many therefore, and many have to deal with childhood traumas before they can proceed to love others.
Love doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. I mentioned it here somewhere already, but i will repeat: Dalai-Lama said "love is the absence of judgement". I think it is a good reference point. Q'uo said somewhere that we shouldn't expect ourselves to love personalities, it is really difficult and personality is an illusory self anyway. Love is what connects us all, Love is an acceptance of Unity and us as equal parts if this unity. Hatonn said:

...You have walled yourself away from what you seek because, within the illusion, it seems to be a safety-making factor to have walls, physical walls, mental walls of defense, emotional limits beyond which each individual does not go. For, he wishes to be safe within his walls, and within his illusion, these walls make him safe.

But, my friends, this _is_ the illusion. The reality is that you are part of the unity...

hope that rambling may help you a bit)

[Agua]

removed

[Sacred Fool]

I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply.

I guess I'll join in and offer my two cents worth.  There is your love that comes from you, and it is limited.  On the other hand, there is love that comes *through* you.  It's a vibration one discerns within that one can settle into and vibrate with.  It's not "your" love and it's not limited.  It just vibrates giving and loving, independent of your personal limitations.  It's there for you, waiting for you to blend with it.
 
 

[sillypumpkins]

that's a wonderful way of putting it peregrine, thank you

[Glow]

People pleasing is caused by a fawn response to fear (it is one of the four f's - flight, fight, freeze and fawn). It is intended to disarm the other by supplication. Only you truly know if you act from fear or love.

Love does not demand any deeds. It is unkind to allow a person to engage in abuse. The deepest parts of ourselves do not distinguish the self from other, so any abuse is also committed to the self.

I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply.

Thoughts?

Hi Louisabell,

I don’t have any questions about my own source of loving regardless of another’s ability or need to do so. I know especially in the case mentioned above it was out of vast understanding of the other selves wounds and compassion. We all can only do or be what we are ready to do or be.

For others at this point the above has been extrapolated to the ALL.

As to how it’s done. It’s just happens.
I have been really working on all my catylist the last few years and the more I’m healed the less I need from others.

I could say why my beliefs let it happen but honestly I don’t think it has anything to do with conscious beliefs.

In the moment your subconscious acts. It chooses. So I guess if you want to get to that place you have to inform or heal the subconscious over time so it can determine at the next opportunity whether it will choose to love with or without or expectation.

I agree with Agua though, no rush. We are strongest in some ways and struggle in others, if this is a preference though setting intention with your subconscious will likely bring catylist into your path that will help.

Nice to see your name pop up on the forum.

[Sacred Fool]

 
If you're still out there, lb, there's one more thing I would add regarding what we're trying to describe for you.  For me, it's a place in the heart where the presence of all beings is felt.  It's as though they are all there in a mandala configuration of light, and the it's clearly evident, intuitively, that we're all glowing for and with one another.  So, it's just reflexive to yield to that and offer all to all.

If it's hard to find that area--and, trust me, I know how that feels--you might want to trace emotions of unworthiness, feeling unworthy to receive love, and work to "purify" these, as Q'uo would put it, and see if such a process eventually lands you in the area which I mentioned.  In one rather useful session, Q'uo averred that such feelings lie at every level of consciousness, at every chakra, and so if you can begin at the bottom and work your way up to the heart--over time--you may find the emotions which you are seeking: viz., spontaneous unending love for all.

It's a groovy place to visit.  I hope to live there someday...perhaps soon.
   
 

[flofrog]

Very much what Peregrine describes.

lb, this time of apparent heavy virus might make it easier ? If I look at all around me and feel all around Earth, I have this feeling we are all in this together. Feeling awe, respect for the courage of everyone.

[Navaratna]

I cannot seem to project love without at least an anticipation or hope that I will receive love back. I have received insight on all other questions, bar this one. I have no idea how it is done. My love is therefore coloured in this way and I am destined to be hurt by not being loved back by those people I love deeply.

I guess I'll join in and offer my two cents worth.  There is your love that comes from you, and it is limited.  On the other hand, there is love that comes *through* you.  It's a vibration one discerns within that one can settle into and vibrate with.  It's not "your" love and it's not limited.  It just vibrates giving and loving, independent of your personal limitations.  It's there for you, waiting for you to blend with it.
 
 

I think out of all the objects I've ever held, I remember rhodochrosite crystals as having a very loving energy. They are colored red and pink, they have the same colors of a valentines day theme. They were regarded by the Inca as the blood of royalty and are the national stone of Argentina. A lot of those South American cultures held Earth talismans to a high regard.

I remember years ago being in awe of a large necklace piece this Peruvian couple was displaying enveloped by chains of tumbled rose quartz. Rose quartz gives me an impression of a platonic and pure feminine energy, but rhodochrosite is on a different level and a bit more expensive. like it's Earth's lovestone. That stone really embodies a loving Earthly energy. Sometimes it's difficult to sense the param chaitanya [All pervading divine love vibration/supreme truth] pervading through empty space.

I think the thing about this person Shri Mataji is that of all the gurus/religious people/spiritual masters etc...how many well known ones were female? Especially in our modern age from decades ago. Maybe nowadays in the age of women's empowerment there are many bestselling authors, but out of all the stories I've read of people from the West heading to the far east or in to the jungle.. I can think of only one or two that people interested in these topics would know the name of.


"Paramchaitanya is the all-pervading divine power, also expressed as the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost and the Ruh [sensation of kundalini breeze felt on the palms when purified through sahaja meditation]. It is absolute love, which knows, understands, coordinates and works out everything.
everything is worked out by the grace of Paramachaitanya, which is the power of the Adi Shakti... reality is Paramachaitanya and it is reality that works out everything. And then this reality is the Divine Love... Like a child who finds his mother, then he stops crying, no more, now he’s found his mother. In the same way you have found Paramachaitanya and the connection with it. So you don’t have to worry for anything, don’t have to think about anything, you don’t have to plan about anything, only thing is you have to jump into it, just jump into it and know that you have become part and parcel of the reality. (89/07/19)"

also:

[Louisabell]

Imagine a sparrow tweets close to you while you passing by. Does it make you smile? Does it tickle your heart with a touch of appreciation for this little joyous creature, if for a moment? This little creature is a spark of One Infinite Creator, just like you. A few steps behind you may be. Now, i would guess that you just love that creature and you don't expect anything from it in return. You may do the same with people. That could be your service: to be an example of someone who eadiates love, acceptance and forgiveness.

Thank you flow, that's a beautiful image and intuitively inspired no doubt. I do love the pair of doves that live in my garden. It gives me such joy to just see them go about their day. But I always found it easy to love animals. Their innocence and lack of pretense makes it easy. I know I need to find that with humanity, and I'm getting closer as I bring my bitter unconscious emotions to the light.

Love is not something we are capable by default. We have to learn how to love. For many of us we have to learn what Love is in the first place. Only then we can begin to learn how to open our hearts and love unconditionally. For many this quests starts with love to ourselves, because acceptance and love to yourself is probably one of the hardest catalyst, considering many are born within families where parents dudb't learn lessons of Love before giving birth to thier children. Childhood is rough for many therefore, and many have to deal with childhood traumas before they can proceed to love others.

Yes, I recently found an emotional well of self-loathing inside of me. I realise I have to learn to forgive myself for being vulnerable when I was a child, and for not having the defences to protect myself from the harsh energies and lack of love in my environment. I know intellectually that I wasn't to blame, however it will take some time for the inner child to accept this.

Maybe then will I come to appreciate the vulnerability of humanity.

hope that rambling may help you a bit)

Absolutely is a help, both what is said and unsaid, thank you.

[Louisabell]

Well, my first though would be this is cureable with thoughts

Ah, that magical thought we only need to think in order to make it all better again  

My second thought would be:

Loving without expectation is a state we eventually reach. Trying to „already be there“ does not to the trick, at best it results in suppressing what you truly feel.
I would leave the „you should“ aside and see how thing are for you, because that is the starting point

„Technically“ speaking I would say, there is a part in you that still needs something, and this part will have expectations until it is healed.
Ultimately, it is a younger aspect of yours, some call it the inner child, that experienced a situation where its needs have not been filled.

Healing ultimately occurs when you can accept that this need has not been met and will never be met. Because it happened in the past, and the situation was „needs are not being met“.
It is not possible to fill these needs fully, just temporarily. Just as , lets say you experienced a hot summer day in the past, so the experience is a hot summer day, it will not change to a cold winters day in the furture.

And so the past experience of „needs not being met“ will not change in „needs being met“.
That is a crucial thing to grasp in my experience.

Healing will not occur by filling that need, it will occur by realizing that you do not have that need right now, but are experiencing an old energy of „needs not being met“.

Not sure if you can relate to that.

Well of course Aqua, everything you say is right, yet put so matter of fact that it can be a hard pill to swallow all at once, lol. After some days of mulling things over, I am in a much more receptive state and feel hopeful for the challenge ahead. Thank you, I appreciate it.

However this is not of much use if it just is a concept, it is crucial to actually feel it.
In order to feel it it is often, or even more often than often, necessary that someone fills that need temporarily, so you can relax and feel safe.
This usually is a precondition for your system allowing you to actually feel this.

Well put. I have undertaken the long journey of undoing the self-abandonment I was taught. The true hero of the day is when you show up for yourself.

[Louisabell]

Hi Louisabell,

I don’t have any questions about my own source of loving regardless of another’s ability or need to do so. I know especially in the case mentioned above it was out of vast understanding of the other selves wounds and compassion. We all can only do or be what we are ready to do or be.

For others at this point the above has been extrapolated to the ALL.

As to how it’s done. It’s just happens.
I have been really working on all my catylist the last few years and the more I’m healed the less I need from others.

Thanks Glow, that gives me a lot of hope and faith in the process. I rely a lot on introspection, that voice of inner wisdom, but when I go within there is a big question mark. Likely that's because loving without expectation is gained after the accumulation of much experience, and maybe is a true indication of polarity itself.

I could say why my beliefs let it happen but honestly I don’t think it has anything to do with conscious beliefs.

In the moment your subconscious acts. It chooses. So I guess if you want to get to that place you have to inform or heal the subconscious over time so it can determine at the next opportunity whether it will choose to love with or without or expectation.

I agree with Agua though, no rush. We are strongest in some ways and struggle in others, if this is a preference though setting intention with your subconscious will likely bring catylist into your path that will help.

Nice to see your name pop up on the forum.

Your brilliant insight comes through your words. Thank you, nice to see your name here as well.

[Navaratna]

Maybe something that would help people feel this way would be to drop the idea of calling it love. Call it what you want, that radiant emanating positive illuminating force, but calling it love makes people get hung up on if they should profess their endless oceanic undying love toward strangers or the couple next door that is weirded out by the idea. Or straight up enemies.

reminds me of a meme that was once very popular about the flying spaghetti monster, about how if you just took the word 'God' in the bible and replaced it with 'flying spaghetti monster' it would be a much easier to discount whatever the Hell book of fairytales many people swear on as true if we did not have this silly cultural reverence for the word 'God'. 'You said god's name in vain? 'You call yourself a god?" How about I just TAUNT the fanciful flying spaghetti monster to strike me down if he is real. Lol.

I also think in these kinds of alternative spirituality groups, they are full of women because guys don't think of any of these ideas as reliable attitudes that they can hold in the 'real' world and still expect to be taken seriously. I know for sure there's a group I like that has been studied and the gender ratio is 65-35% 2 females to every male practitioner.

Many times that I've witnessed a reminder that hippie-ish people are just people...let's say there's a guy with a girlfriend, he doesn't want guys being friends with the girl and sharing all the love...no. The guy gets annoyed immediately that a guy wants to be friends at all with his girlfriend no matter how lovey hippie they are. Not always...but generally. Unless oh it's more girls in the group of course the guy has no issue. And hippie girls...they usually have boyfriends, so ok...how the hell does this work for humanity embracing all this love together. ..people's jealously and interpersonal junk gets in the way..of the only kind of people I can think of who try to market themselves as believers in this kind of attitude [outside of spiritualists groups] as having any kind of solid community.

What does it even all mean in terms of application is what most men would think. If you love everyone, next time your neighbor loses his job just invite him to live in your house rent free because LOVE. lol.

Also, people really, really seem to generally hate/dislike gays when there is hardly any violence at all in those kinds of gatherings--pride events/gay scenes. Those places are by no means perfect, people are trapped in their vanity-- but it is disturbing how much hatred gets directed towards that particular group of people who aren't necessarily thinking of it as param chaitanya.. but are on the 'free love' 'free space/expression/identity' level of thinking. Yeah for that they deserve so much hatred..lol. They definitely aren't drunkenly fighting each other, resulting in people getting knocked out dead like at a regular beerfest. It doesn't happen anywhere near as often.

No matter how people dress/look, they're just people, and like all people, many are possessive. You don't tell people you love them if you're a grown man unless the circumstances are exactly right. Otherwise people get all tribal and dudes start chest thumping. Women have it a bit easier thinking of their love for everything and expressing it freely because they aren't assumed as having as much of an agenda. Guys I know would shake their heads at being reminded of the transient nature of everything or param chaitanya. 'What's your...point?" "That's gay/are you gay?" or some dismissive whatever.

It's a great concept and I see it and agree with it, but thinking people are going to think this way in huge numbers and not just irritate each other to death until fists start swinging over who is allowed to love whose woman or allowed to
hang out around whoever else cuz Gilberto is annoying [and unaesthetically pleasing as a middle aged overweight truck driver] ... is...hilarious. Call your love something else and maybe people will relate. Param chaitanya I think is a good word for this reason, there is no English equivalent.

[Louisabell]

It's a groovy place to visit.  I hope to live there someday...perhaps soon.
   

I'm sure you will  . Your words are beautiful.

I feel as though I can express love, and to some extent receive it, but I can see how the love is slightly coloured by a hope or anticipation to receive like in kind. When that colouration is sent forth, you are overjoyed when your hopes are met, but destined to suffer when hopes are dashed. I suppose it's like sending a part of yourself that is still niave enough to take the rejection of itself badly. It is very subtle to the conscious mind, but an imbalance nonetheless.