Polarize STS then flip?

[rinzler]

70.23 Questioner: I was asking these questions primarily to understand or to build a base for an attempt to get a little bit of enlightenment on the way that time/space and space/time is related to the evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex so that I could better understand the techniques, you might say, of that evolution. For instance, you stated that “the potential difference may be released and polarities changed after an entity has learned/taught the lessons of love of self” if the entity is [a] positive entity that has found itself in negative time/space and then had to incarnate in negative space/time. And what I was trying to do was build a base for attempting to understand or at least get a slight understanding of what you meant by this statement that potential difference may be released and polarities changed after the above step. I am very interested in knowing, if placed in a negative time/space, why it is necessary to incarnate in negative space/time and learn/teach love of self and develop, I guess, a sixth-density level of polarity before you can release that potential difference. I was trying to build a little foothold or platform from which to make that more apparent. Could you speak on that subject, please?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working.
The entity which incarnates into negative space/time will not find it possible to maintain any significant positive polarity as negativity, when pure, is a type of gravity well, shall we say, pulling all into it. Thus the entity, while remembering its learned and preferred polarity, must needs make use of the catalyst given and recapitulate the lessons of service to self in order to build up enough polarity in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal.

Given the fact that we are in a STS-world trying to polarize towards the opposite....wouldn't it make more sense to polarize STS and then flip? because:

19.18 Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

[Jeremy]

I'm curious why you believe that it's a fact that this is a service to self world

[rinzler]

I'm curious why you believe that it's a fact that this is a service to self world

welp. Because of entropy and the inevitable heat death of the universe. Physicality is by default entropic whereas the higher spiritual realms as well as any world that is STO is negentropic. Remember STO is radiant and STS is absorbing.
Just stating facts.

[Jeremy]

How does any of that actually correspond with the Law of One? Where in the material does the state any of that?

[Black Dragon]

There's a lot of reasons why somebody would believe such a thing and how it could appear that way on the surface, but there's a lot more reasons why it isn't quite an accurate assessment. We've gone into this in several other threads, but I think some key points are either being missed or outright ignored. I'd be lying to say the thought had never popped into my mind before, because it seems like STS have it easy-society is set up to benefit them and they get to fulfill their desires, stay youthful at old ages from not stressing out about caring about other people(just look at Kissinger, he's living proof that the "good die young"). They are left alone and not challenged and attacked by STO entities, because that's now how STO works, while on the other hand, STS forces are always a thorn in the side of anyone trying to polarize positively. STS appear to control their own destiny, while STO just have to eat what's handed us, which is usually just a big plate of arbitrary suffering. This is how things appear on the surface, all though maybe it's a matter of perspective, which is all we really have. We can't change the shitty system, but we can change our perspectives therefore our relationship to it.

In some ways, the STS path almost seems to sell itself, until one realizes that to be effective at it in a 3d environment, one must screw over innocent people who are either STO or just stuck in the sinkhole(most of which have a higher plan towards STO that is just taking a little longer to realize there's even a choice). I don't know about you, but I just can't. No matter how shitty things are, how I don't agree with dogmatized versions of STO that tell you to be a martyr/sheep with no boundaries, I just can't screw over innocent people. I'm angry at a system of suffering, so I could not live with being a person who makes others suffer for my own gain. There's just something in my principles, in my character and very soul that resists such a thing outright. I guess you could call it empathy, and it is that, but it's also integrity, it's just not who I am.

It may sound arrogant, but that's the difference in strength between me and most of the humans that end up choosing STS; they enjoy/need to screw over unsuspecting and innocent people, "soft targets" if you will, which is why when they finally make "the cut" and get to a planet where there are all wolves and no sheep, they get beat down to the bottom ranks and end up serving the higher-ups. Throw me in a place like that where I knew there were no innocents and everyone was playing the STS game, I'd have no problem screwing them and climbing the ladder so I could get enough energy to flip polarities, but in a mixed 3d world, I just can't bring myself to choose STS or screw over innocent people. Can you?

[Agua]

removed

[sillypumpkins]

I don't at all believe we live in a STS world, any more than we live in a STO world. It's neutral to me.... we have a choice to make, and equal opportunity to pursue either of those choices, therefore, it's neutral in my eyes.

If somebody is viewing the world as inherently STO or STS, imo, it's more an indication of what they're choosing to pay attention to/ignore, than how it actually is.

Also, in my eyes, walking the STS path is a lot harder on an entity than one might think.

The notion that those who walk that path are somehow "lesser" or not as worthy as one who walks the STO path is hogwash.... we're all serving the One Creator, in our own way... STS entities are serving just as faithfully as STO entities are.... there is no need to be spiteful of those who chose a different path. I understand why one might do that, but.... just give it a little thought...

Thanks for coming to my ted talk... lol

[Black Dragon]

How does any of that actually correspond with the Law of One? Where in the material does the state any of that?

It doesn't. It's some half-baked s*** coming from a mentally constructed Tulpa thoughtform entity that he's letting push him around like a little b****. In the higher realms where energy comes from a zero-point infinite wellspring, it would be impossible to "radiate away" all of your energy in STO and cause entropy to the self or SMC. On the other hand, the mid 6d negative(who does not tap into that wellspring but absorbs and vampirizes), will find that this cheaply gained, finite energy("loosh") they take is never quite enough to prevent spiritual entropy(though some hold onto the "sinking ship") for quite a while, and they will degrade to a point where they either choose STO and repolarize, or they degrade so much they go back to 3rd or even 2nd density where they forget and don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

[Agua Reborn]

There is one thing I would like to point out, regarding all that talk about higher densities and the likes:

Guys, be honest, we dont even understand 3 rd density.
We are so far away from having a clue what is going on inside of us here in this 3 D plane.
Isnt it mostly pure speculation and fantasy what we „know“ about the details of these things.

[Black Dragon]

There is one thing I would like to point out, regarding all that talk about higher densities and the likes:

Guys, be honest, we dont even understand 3 rd density.
We are so far away from having a clue what is going on inside of us here in this 3 D plane.
Isnt it mostly pure speculation and fantasy what we „know“ about the details of these things.

Even 3d science is starting to understand the concept of zero-point energy. Entropy is an illusion, that much is obvious. Just sayin'. I do get your point though.

[Scah]

We tend to forget that a truly balanced STO being would never fear death as death is merely an entrance to another density (that is if one is truly balance or it would be an entrance to another incarnation) just like birth.

For a STS being, one would try to stay in this density at all cost as they view death as something that will take away everything that one is attached to and most importantly the so called "life" that a STS wants to preserve.
As we should know if not understand, consciousness (soul) is undying and eternal. To me, this is the ultimate perk of being a STO.

I am not sure about you but I do not want to stay in this density no matter what materialistic good is promised me.

I wholeheartedly recommend the movie that Black Dragon has led me to "Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind: Contact Has Begun". The content presented was not new to me at all. However, the genuine faith in the goodwill of the unknown from Dr. Steven Greer has moved me tremendously. I know recommending this movie at this thread seems out of place but I really wish people can recognize the pure faith in Humanity and in all consciousnesses presented in this docu-movie. It reaffirmed my faith in the goodwill of all consciousness. I hope it would somehow give someone else the similar impact that it has on me.

[Black Dragon]

We tend to forget that a truly balanced STO being would never fear death as death is merely an entrance to another density (that is if one is truly balance or it would be an entrance to another incarnation) just like birth.

For a STS being, one would try to stay in this density at all cost as they view death as something that will take away everything that one is attached to and most importantly the so called "life" that a STS wants to preserve.
As we should know if not understand, consciousness (soul) is undying and eternal. To me, this is the ultimate perk of being a STO.

I am not sure about you but I do not want to stay in this density no matter what materialistic good is promised me.

I wholeheartedly recommend the movie that Black Dragon has led me to "Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind: Contact Has Begun". The content presented was not new to me at all. However, the genuine faith in the goodwill of the unknown from Dr. Steven Greer has moved me tremendously. I know recommending this movie at this thread seems out of place but I really wish people can recognize the pure faith in Humanity and in all consciousnesses presented in this docu-movie. It reaffirmed my faith in the goodwill of all consciousness. I hope it would somehow give someone else the similar impact that it has on me.

I think I'll start a thread for it some time today or tonight, recommending the movie and giving a brief overview on it, how it inspired me, and encouraging people to try CE5(if they are so inclined by their own free will, and interested in making contact). I imagine there might be a few here who would view such contact work as transient or unimportant, but it is far from that. It's not only a human right to have this sort of contact if one so desires it, but it has a ripple effect that the more people do it, it changes the fabric of Earth/humanity's morphic fields in an expansive and positive way, and brings in new energies and more interconnectedness of humanity with the universe.

[Agua Reborn]

@Black Dragon
@Rinzler

I think I already wrote this in another thread:

I honestly believe your understanding of polarity is heavily distorted.
I also see, at least I believe to see, you base this views and and also your views on the world of many wrong assumptions.

I dont want to be a smart ass here, but I see that this is causing you a lot of suffering.

I think one of the greates onstacles in learning is believing one alteady knows.
This leaves very little room for growth.
I think its important to be willing to question ones belies and the things one believes to know.

What if I would say, that do not perceive the world as it is? That actually know one really does?
What if I would say that you simply project your unresolved issues on the world, that you interpret and thus distort your perception of the world based on those unresolved themes?
What if you one day would find out that there is actually some truth to that?

How would you know, how a truly consciously polarizing sts human being lives, how he works and lives?
How would you know, how a truly consciously sto person would go about that?
How would you know what the path looks like a few miles ahead?

Do you believe its just „more of the same“ but somehow a bit „more same“?

Would you think that enlightenment is walking around being extremely special with extraordinary skills?
Or would you think it might be walking around absolutely normal with no special ability, having realized, former life was just a nightmare that one held true, having been caught in an illusion, and now, awakened out of the illusion there is not even a need for any special ability?

If you want to grow, if you want to evolve, if you want to heal and enjoy life, and if you want to learn, I recommend you start forgetting what you believed you know and open yourself for unlearning and the possibility, that you have lived in an illusion

[flofrog]

I have often been struck how little in fact time Ra in the LOO spends on what is supposed to be negative or STS.

It’s really fundamentally about, as Agua says,, the way we perceive our experience, all about experiences.

Listening to the LOO podcasts led me to Michael Newton’s books and it’s really interesting to see how, from his recounts, ( illusory or not.. .) each entity seems to apparently come back with experiences planned and how mutually planned catalyst exists so growth happens, so in the end the question of individual sts and sto seems to... change !

Illusion, illusion

on edit : I am afraid my post is unclear as many times my posts are. What I meant is I just feel that perhaps STS as adepts or deep STS are pretty few. It might well be that for example I would incarnate with a 'soul mate' with for example, the agreement that we would experiment a difficult relationship with one controlling the other thus giving the other the challenge to stand on its own, but this controlling entity being in fact not as STS as it would look to someone outside the agreement... So if you would repeat that example many times, it might look to the outsider that 3 D world is effectively very negative as in fact, it is a place of experiment, and outside some very serious STS entities, most of everyone is just engaging in experimenting different things. Whence the less importance given to STS by Ra.

[moyal]

I have often  been struck how little in fact time Ra in the LOO spends on what is supposed to be negative or STS.

I also have difficulty to understands Ra's view of the 'whole STS topic' in all it's consequences.
The best treatise I found about this is from Laurency. But if I understand this right, it was written long before the Ra-channeling.
Laurency seems also not well known, so I never found a in depth discussion about his view on things, even less a comparison with the LOO teaching.

For those interested, here is the essay "The Black Lodge" by Henry T. Laurency:

-> https://www.laurency.com/L5e/L5e23.pdf

[Black Dragon]

I have often  been struck how little in fact time Ra in the LOO spends on what is supposed to be negative or STS.

I also have difficulty to understands Ra's view of the 'whole STS topic' in all it's consequences.
The best treatise I found about this is from Laurency. But if I understand this right, it was written long before the Ra-channeling.
Laurency seems also not well known, so I never found a in depth discussion about his view on things, even less a comparison with the LOO teaching.

For those interested, here is the essay "The Black Lodge" by Henry T. Laurency:

-> https://www.laurency.com/L5e/L5e23.pdf

I'm reading it. I'm not too far in, and there's already something that stands out-the fact that some planetary hierarchy decided to wipe us out several times with floods to get rid of the "bad knowledge"-well, it didn't get rid of the black lodge, and it just sacrificed innocent people and made us all pay for the sins of a few. It sounds like this planetary hierarchy is elitist, authoritarian, and heartless, and their floods were ineffective at solving the real problem. I'll continue reading, but I don't like where this is going so far. It sounds like a pure STS faction vs a faction that thinks they are STO, but are really also self-serving murderous authoritarians. If it were up to me, I'd banish both the black lodge and these hierarchy fuckers. " the emotional world is the world of the black lodge" yeah, wooo emotions are EVIL and we should all be machines. I'll try to get through this, but the more I read it the more it sounds like elitist, mechanistic, heartless drivel. It's also going on to promote "prison planet" and "inherent sin" concepts...

Also, all this talk about "laws" and "obeying"...there is only one law, a law that simply is, and does not require any "obeying".

[Black Dragon]

Man I had to stop. That PDF is all over the place. It bashes Hitler, yet is anti-Semitic at the same time. It's about two heartless factions, the "planetary heriarchy", and the "black lodge", and its just your basic "pot calling the kettle black" situation where both sides are controlling and mechanistic in nature, forcing their will upon mankind and playing us, as it LITTERALLY SAYS, as pawns...*torrential vomit* These two factions deserve each other. They should go 69 in a galaxy FAR FAR AWAY FROM HERE!(sorry, this old-timey, heavy, secret society, earthbound authoritarian type of occult material full of judgment and control always gets my blood boiling, maybe it's past life baggage or something. I just know s*** when I smell it, even if it masquerades as good).

So then it goes into this whole spiel about how the black lodge is all about authoritarianism and denying freedom and liberty, how they use force to solve all their problems, blah blah blah...well what about the planetary hierarchy who murdered us in droves with floods to get rid of a few bad apples(which it didn't), and this concept of the average person being "unworthy" of occult knowledge and necessary to destroy them all? Sounds like A.) using force B.) denying freedom for everyone to learn the knowledge and do as they will, good or bad, and C.) moralism...you think the hierarchy might be...I dunno...PROJECTING just a bit?

[moyal]

...It's about two heartless factions, the "planetary heriarchy", and the "black lodge", and its just your basic "pot calling the kettle black" situation where both sides are controlling and mechanistic in nature, forcing their will upon mankind and playing us...

In a way I sympathise with your assessment.
But I also see, that we in 3th density land could be like cows judging the necessity of the meat industry, when evaluating the motivations of higher density entities.
(There are teachings that claim that we basically "'feed' our own soul" - and this is the actual reason for the need of the 'soul' to incarnate.*)

Anyway, to judge Laurency 'objectively' you really have to read his whole work. You would find, that a lot of the impressions you got from reading half an article of him, do not do justice to him.
I just posted it to show, that maybe, - just maybe - , it could be, that "polarize STS then flip" is not the best option in the long run. "The first will be the last" etc.

I suspect, that there is some very good reason when Ra does not want to tell something, because "this would infringe your free will".

* Griffith's "War in Heaven" for example:
-> https://archive.org/details/war_in_heaven/mode/2up

[Black Dragon]

...It's about two heartless factions, the "planetary heriarchy", and the "black lodge", and its just your basic "pot calling the kettle black" situation where both sides are controlling and mechanistic in nature, forcing their will upon mankind and playing us...

In a way I sympathise with your assessment.
But I also see, that we in 3th density land could be like cows judging the necessity of the meat industry, when evaluating the motivations of higher density entities.
(There are teachings that claim that we basically "'feed' our own soul" - and this is the actual reason for the need of the 'soul' to incarnate.*)

Anyway, to judge Laurency 'objectively' you really have to read his whole work. You would find, that a lot of the impressions you got from reading half an article of him, do not do justice to him.
I just posted it to show, that maybe, - just maybe - , it could be, that "polarize STS then flip" is not the best option in the long run. "The first will be the last" etc.

I suspect, that there is some very good reason when Ra does not want to tell something, because "this would infringe your free will".

* Griffith's "War in Heaven" for example:
-> https://archive.org/details/war_in_heaven/mode/2up

Well, I didn't necessarily say that the author was pushing or advocating authoritarian views, or lacking integrity. He seems to simply give a more or less objective assessment of the situation with little opinionating. His heart seems more or less in the right place. I will continue to read it when I'm in a better state of mind and relaxed. What I'm saying is that the actions and philosophies of this "planetary hierarchy, to me, seem controlling, mechanistic, unloving, and sociopathic. Such entities that do not love us and only judge and punish us, use us like chess pieces and cattle, and not worthy guides or teachers, and not worthy of our veneration, obedience, or support. They are a detriment to our well being, and the opposite side of the negative coin that only seems to help their agenda by blundering around and passing judgment on us with no empathy.That's all I'm saying. They were also the ones who created the bent towards elitism by concentrating occult power in the hands of a few "chosen", who became STS. After that, they wiped us out, threw the "baby out with the bath water", and recreated the same scenario all over again. Pretty inexcusable for those that would consider themselves enlightened.

I also never advocated pursuing the STS path and then flipping, not my cup of tea, more something the OP was curious about.

[Infinite]

No. I will explain.

First, there are no third density planets that are STS. There are planets of mixed polarity (which hang towards one or another polarity) and others that are STO. The Earth is a mixed polarity planet that leans a little to the negative, although the harvestable STO entities are in greater numbers.

Second, on the polarity reversal, Ra was referring to individual entities, not an entire social complex.

[sillypumpkins]

First, there are no third density planets that are STS.

How do you know this?

[Infinite]

How do you know this?

As far as we are aware there are no negatively oriented third-density social memory complexes

.(38.7)

[sillypumpkins]

How do you know this?

As far as we are aware there are no negatively oriented third-density social memory complexes

.(38.7)

I think the key phrase in that excerpt is "As far as we are aware".... Ra are not all-knowing.... there are things that they are not aware of, and 3D STS planets/social memory complexes could certainly be included in that lack of awareness...

[Infinite]

I think the key phrase in that excerpt is "As far as we are aware".... Ra are not all-knowing.... there are things that they are not aware of, and 3D STS planets/social memory complexes could certainly be included in that lack of awareness...

It seems to me that it was just a way of speaking.

[Aion]

To be fair, there aren't very many third density social memory complexes in general since it is properly a phenomenon of the fourth.

Which you can see from the full quote there:

38.7 Questioner: Could you give me an example of a planet of this nature, both a third-density service-to-others type and a third-density self-service type at this level of, of attainment conditions?

Ra: I am Ra. As far as we are aware there are no negatively oriented third-density social memory complexes. Positively oriented social memory complexes of third density are not unheard of but quite rare. However, an entity from the star Sirius’ planetary body has approached this planetary body twice. This entity is late third-density and is part of a third-density social memory complex. This has been referred to in the previous material. The social memory complex is properly a fourth-density phenomenon.

That's because third density is the density of choice where the first movements towards polarization happen. Third density is where the choice is made, fourth is where that choice is pursue further and refined.

[sillypumpkins]

I see a little bit clearer now. Thanks Aion

[Aion]

No worries. I would say most of the world's population is still trying to get out of the sinkhole.

17.33 Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult a path to attain harvestability upon than the positive?

Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a strait and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to other-selves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

If thus was a truly negative planet, positivity would be next to impossible. Rinzlers assertion that heat death a d blah blah blah has anything to do with the polarity of human mass consciousness makes no sense. He is just pessimistic about humanity because taking that kind of attitude is easier than taking responsibility to change one's life. Oh, humanity is evil, this is an STS planet. Might as well not bother being positive. Might as well just piss and moan. Not that I think polarizing in and of itself matters and caring about polarizing ironically retards polarization. Still, humanity isn't evil, just confused, full of s*** and plagued with victim mentality. Hardly a harvestably negative planet by LOO criteria.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

I'm curious why you believe that it's a fact that this is a service to self world

welp. Because of entropy and the inevitable heat death of the  universe. Physicality is by default entropic whereas the higher spiritual realms as well as any world that is STO is negentropic. Remember STO is radiant and STS is absorbing.
Just stating facts.  

What you believe to state as facts actually are mostly assumptions.

Given the „fact“ that you seem to be in a dark place alteady (going by your posts) I would thoroughly recommend that you see if you can find a willingness to question your beliefs.
While the deeper layers of beliefs are hard to access, the surface isnt.

You asked in another thread how to balance the energy  centers and, if I got that right, your main point was that you actually feel overwhelmed why massive negative and are litterally unable to move.

when I read your threads here, the illusory nature of what you state as facts strikes me very much.
While you may not be aware, but viewed from outside it seems to be obvious that you are creating massive suffering for yourself.

Just in case you dont like suffering that much, an idea would be to stop creating it constantly

As for polarizing sts and then flipping, well thats obviously a choice you can make.
However, you might have also read that one usually „flips“ further along the path. But if you want to explore that for a few million years, why not

Also, in order to be harvestable negative, it would take serious effort!
Sitting on the couch, having dark thoughts and occasionally spreading some negativity is probably not enough.

Wake up, my friend!

This. I remember my teacher saying it took tens of thousands of years of dedicated effort for her Family to reach a point where even 3 members could "ascend" Then again, that's partially BECAUSE they were trying. I'm sure Ghengis Kahn, Rasputin, "Taras Bulba" and them 2 Nazi cats didn't take nearly as long because none of them were TRYING to polarize so much as they were dedicatedly doing what they wanted to do. The point of what they did (conscious adepts or not) wasn't to "ascend" it was to do/get what they wanted. That being said though, they were VERY driven and worked very hard for their own selfish ends. Ra said "No time was wasted" What does that tell us? It means that it takes serious dedication even if what you're dedicated to isn't graduation itself, but simply DOING WHAT YOU WANT. How many humans are HARVESTABLY negative like that?

And then the whoke heat death and entropy claim.

I already said that that had nothing to do with the polarity og the human consciousness, but I did not even address the veracity of the claims themselves like Agua did.

He says he's just stating "facts" as if there is some sort of scientific consensus about the state of the universe and our understanding is so thorough and omnipotent that this interpretation is somehow irrefutable "fact" like 2 + 2 = 4 or some s***.

The FACT is that humanity is woefully ill equipped to say with surety that the universe is dying or that it's heating up or freezing or whatever. Technologically, mentally, psychologically etc. Humanity is woefully inadequately equipped to make an infallible and objective assessment of such a nature. Since thus is a LOO forum and we are talking about polarity here, let us remember Ra saying:

"In order to harvest, it is essential tonunderstand one does not understand"

Does Rinzler saying these dubious claims are "facts" sound like acceptence of one's own lack of understanding to anybody?

Socrates was more "understanding" ig you will:

"All I know is that I know nothing"

[EvolvingPhoenix]

@BlackDragon

Yeah, I dunno if I really believe most of the s*** said in the LOO channelings anymore. I mean: either be absorbed into "The One" at the cost of identity, memory, free will etc. Or damn yourself to separation until your sense of "spiritual atrophy" causes you to just give in and accept choice number 1. Where's the "Great Choice" we were told of in the Tarot explanations again? Where's the choice? Where's the actual FREE WILL?

Perhaps the REAL choice is choosing whether or not you even accept the reality Ra presents in the first place?

I mean, how can we trust that "Ra" is even who they say they are? How can we trust that "Ra" is actually trying to help us? And why should we just believe this? It sounds like Ra's words are expected to be taken on blind faith as Gospel Truth or some s***. How is that any less dogmatic really than the religions of the past?

On the other hand...

Since we're talking about "throwing the baby out with the bath water" can we really do that with what is said in this material? Why should we do that either?

I believe there are AT LEAST SOME true things said in the LOO material. After all, even if it is a masterful lie, it must then containt kernels of truth to properly be as such.

One such thing which rings true:

"It is essential to understand one does not understand"