2010.10.16 The responsibility of participation?

[Lavazza]

Hey everyone,

I have rarely run in to sessions where Quo's response to queries have been somewhat less than satisfying, but I found one that was channeled on Oct 16th 2010. The opening question is so good that I thought it would be interesting to let our friends here on B4th have a crack at it also. Here's a quote from the opening question:

The question this evening, Q’uo, [from G], is, “Few systems of thought confer as much responsibility on the individual entity as the Law of One does. In that philosophy, the individual is completely responsible for its own choices and its experience no matter how uninformed these choices and its viewpoint may be. It is in that vein that we wish to examine the concept of responsibility through both the general and focused lens. In general, to what extent is the positively-oriented entity responsible for indirectly participating in activities which result in pain and suffering for others? There are many specific ways to approach the basic underlying principle of responsibility, including purchasing gasoline, using products which harm the environment, supporting or not resisting governments which funnel the energy of their people into nefarious ends, etc.

The gasoline example is especially interesting. What do you think?

[Nabil Naser]

what was Q'uo's answer?

We are one. What one does, affects the other. That is the basic.
Without proper communication, no one can predict the affect of one person's actions on the other.

We may go on believing that we are serving all, yet we may be doing disservice to some as we do so.

Communication is the answer.

Hey everyone,

I have rarely run in to sessions where Quo's response to queries have been somewhat less than satisfying, but I found one that was channeled on Oct 16th 2010. The opening question is so good that I thought it would be interesting to let our friends here on B4th have a crack at it also. Here's a quote from the opening question:

The question this evening, Q’uo, [from G], is, “Few systems of thought confer as much responsibility on the individual entity as the Law of One does. In that philosophy, the individual is completely responsible for its own choices and its experience no matter how uninformed these choices and its viewpoint may be. It is in that vein that we wish to examine the concept of responsibility through both the general and focused lens. In general, to what extent is the positively-oriented entity responsible for indirectly participating in activities which result in pain and suffering for others? There are many specific ways to approach the basic underlying principle of responsibility, including purchasing gasoline, using products which harm the environment, supporting or not resisting governments which funnel the energy of their people into nefarious ends, etc.

The gasoline example is especially interesting. What do you think?

[Lavazza]

Oops, I should have included a link to the transcript in question.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1016.aspx

I also should have placed this in the 'sessions in focus' forum, sorry mods! (that's what I get for posting so late at night)

[turtledude23]

Its not the result of someone's actions matter but the intent behind them, if buying gasoline helps you polarize to STO because you can use it to travel then so be it. If you have a strong aversion to the results of buying gasoline then maybe you shouldn't buy it. Some people have such a strong aversion to even passively supporting an evil government that they'll fight that government knowing that they risk imprisonment, torture or death because to them the only way they could live with themselves is if they knew they were doing their best to rid the world of this evil. Some people know their government is bad and will fight it in their own small ways but can still get by without being an activist of some kind, and that doesn't mean that they're less polarized than the previous person. It comes down to intention and personal biases. Many thing are out of our control, all we need to worry about is getting our mind under control, which is a much harder task with much greater stakes than buying gasoline. Someone can go to G20 protests and buy an electric car but still not polarize to STO, and someone can be a caring person who everyone likes but doesn't put much conscious thought into what type of products they buy.

I haven't read the transcript yet, this is my opinion.

[Sacred Fool]

Hey everyone,

I have rarely run in to sessions where Quo's response to queries have been somewhat less than satisfying, but I found one that was channeled on Oct 16th 2010.

What did you find dissatisfying, amigo?

We all need food to live, gas to travel and so on. Their suggestion to give thanks to the chain of those which enable our existence, with which we are all One, as well as to the Creatrix feels like good medicine to me.

Indeed, when I give thanks for the privilege of being here now--struggles notwithstanding--I feel an instant small dosage of "tabernacling with the Creatrix" come over me.

[Monica]

I have rarely run in to sessions where Quo's response to queries have been somewhat less than satisfying, but I found one

This is one of only a few Q'uo sessions that I don't resonate with. In fact I strongly don't resonate with it.

[Sacred Fool]

This is one of only a few Q'uo sessions that I don't resonate with. In fact I strongly don't resonate with it.

Can you say why?

[Lavazza]

This is one of only a few Q'uo sessions that I don't resonate with. In fact I strongly don't resonate with it.

Can you say why?

Personally, I think it could have gone so much deeper and spoke to the root philosophy of the question rather than staying on the surface with the particulars of eating animals... turtledude23 has, for example, gotten in to the 'meat' of this topic, if I may say

Do you feel similarly Monica?

[Monica]

Can you say why?

All channeled information has some degree of distortion, which is why Q'uo always tells us to use our own discernment. I value the Law of One so much because I consider it to be the purest source of information I've ever encountered, with the least distortion.

I consider most of the Q'uo sessions to be relatively undistorted as well, but not to the degree as the Ra sessions, for the simple reason that the Q'uo sessions are consciously channeled, without the extreme safeguards taken with the Ra sessions. Nevertheless, the Q'uo sessions offer a wealth of priceless nuggets of wisdom and practical advice. I treasure them and am very grateful to Carla for continuing the contact!

I also appreciate greatly the phenomenal job Carla has done to ensure purity of contact, even with the Q'uo sessions.

Having said all that, I feel it would be inaccurate to assume that the Q'uo sessions are all 100% pure and undistorted, with no traces of Carla's own views coloring the information.

This is one of the few sessions that I feel contain more of that distortion. The info in this session seems to reflect more of Carla's views on eating meat, than what I would consider plausible from a SMC.

For more on why I disagree with this particular session, see:

Life on Planet Earth > In regards to eating meat

in which I share my own views on the subject of personal responsibility.

In short, I feel that there is a huge amount of distress on this planet, which I think is hindering the Harvest to a great extent. A great deal of that distress could be alleviated by humans simply eliminating dead animals from their diets. As I expressed in the above thread, I feel that we have a responsibility to do what we can to alleviate suffering. It isn't practical or even feasible for most of us to just quit driving cars, and that is a myth anyway, since becoming a vegetarian will contribute more to the solution than riding a bicycle.

Becoming a vegetarian is something we CAN do...it's very simple, and yet is the single most powerful action we can take, to dramatically change the dire situation on this planet. It would have far-reaching effects on human health, sustainability, ending world hunger, politics, reducing pollution, and last but not least, reducing suffering, which in turn affects us all as we near the Harvest. So there are huge, just huge, ramifications.

There is so much more that Q'uo could have said on this subject, which is why I conclude that this is one session that just happened to have more distortion than most other sessions. This session seemed to gloss over the deep questions. It was an opportunity to offer some very real actions we can take, and the opportunity was missed.

To reiterate: I rarely disagree with any of the info from the Q'uo sessions. This is just one of those very rare instances.

[Sacred Fool]

Can you say why?

In short, I feel that there is a huge amount of distress on this planet, which I think is hindering the Harvest to a great extent. A great deal of that distress could be alleviated by humans simply eliminating dead animals from their diets. As I expressed in the above thread, I feel that we have a responsibility to do what we can to alleviate suffering. It isn't practical or even feasible for most of us to just quit driving cars, and that is a myth anyway, since becoming a vegetarian will contribute more to the solution than riding a bicycle.

Becoming a vegetarian is something we CAN do...it's very simple, and yet is the single most powerful action we can take, to dramatically change the dire situation on this planet. It would have far-reaching effects on human health, sustainability, ending world hunger, politics, reducing pollution, and last but not least, reducing suffering, which in turn affects us all as we near the Harvest. So there are huge, just huge, ramifications.

I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, Monica, but I wonder if you are doubting Q'uo's veracity in this case simply because their view towards the mending worldly woes does not comport with your own sense of urgency?

Is there more to your feeling that that channeling was off the mark? I ask merely because it seemed reasonable to me, if light on the social action component. It's not uncharacteristic that they would place emphasis on the spiritual, rather than the material, lessons, no?

[unity100]

I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, Monica, but I wonder if you are doubting Q'uo's veracity in this case simply because their view towards the mending worldly woes does not comport with your own sense of urgency?

Is there more to your feeling that that channeling was off the mark? I ask merely because it seemed reasonable to me, if light on the social action component. It's not uncharacteristic that they would place emphasis on the spiritual, rather than the material, lessons, no?

channelings can be quite off the mark. especially depending on the channeler and channeled.

in case you dont remember, just prior to Ra contact, hatonn was talking about a plan to use radio waves to contact the earth population through television. then hatonn contact abruptly ended, and Ra contact have started.

a channeled entity is still an entity of its own native density. a 4d entity is 4d, a 5d entity is 5d. it is unwise to accept what they say as pure truth.

there are a lot of things and understandings that 4d, 5d entities do not know about. moreover, there are things that 6d entities dont know about. this goes all the way up towards infinity.

[Shemaya]

channelings can be quite off the mark. especially depending on the channeler and channeled.

yes i agree with you unity. That is why individual discernment, and personal truth and integrity are a vital part of our spiritual path.

The channeling comes through a human instrument, and therefore may come with some biases or reflect blockages of the channeler.

Having said that , I was very comfortable with Q'uo's response in this session.

It resonated with the answer I received from Gaia when I asked a question regarding predator/prey relationship. I was asking in the context that humans live as omnivores, and we see animals hunting each other for food in the circle of life. I asked Gaia if the predator/prey dynamic caused her any distress.

She responded with surprise that I would think it caused her distress. She said that animals have no discontinuity of their spirit and body. When the body dies, the spirit is immediately released to Eternal Spirit, and the animal understands this circle, that by it's death it gives life to another.

So to me, Q'uo response resonates in that it gives us as humans an active step, prayer and thanksgiving, to acknowledge the gift of life we are given by the food that we eat.

I didn't feel that Q'uo's response endorsed or excused the terrible, life-robbing system we have created in the meat industry, factory farms, and slaughterhouses. I am glad for the many people who feel passionate about this, who bring awareness and are taking active steps to end it.

All of us can be more conscious of where we buy our food, there is a movement afoot now to localize food production, get away from agribusiness, and get back to home gardens and local farms. When we stop, as a collective, supporting factory farming (by no longer buying from them!) they can't survive....we, as a collective, keep them going by our purchases.

[Monica]

I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, Monica,

None taken, but thank you! I never mind questions aimed at reaching better understanding.

but I wonder if you are doubting Q'uo's veracity in this case simply because their view towards the mending worldly woes does not comport with your own sense of urgency?

No, it's not that. I usually appreciate Q'uo's calm, reassuring perspective.

In this case, it's because I just don't believe a Social Memory Complex would say what Q'uo said in that session. For example, I cannot imagine Q'uo offering 'less cruel' options of waging war, which is another area that I consider in the same category. As another example, Q'uo would certainly know about the myth of kosher meat. The comments about kosher meat in that session had very clear, provable mistakes, as Pablisimo explained in this excellent post:

Life on Planet Earth > In regards to eating meat

Is there more to your feeling that that channeling was off the mark? I ask merely because it seemed reasonable to me, if light on the social action component. It's not uncharacteristic that they would place emphasis on the spiritual, rather than the material, lessons, no?

It's precisely because they missed the spiritual, that the session doesn't resonate with me. The spiritual component was totally missed!

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I will refer you to Pablisimo's detailed explanation of why that session didn't resonate with him, with which I agree 100%.

[AppleSeed]

Has anyone else tried thanking each food item separately, rather than thanking an over-arching presence for all of it? I was a little surprised by some of the responses I got. Foods also take on energy from the persons preparing it, and for some more processed foods I got people in white coats... hmmm... Lesson learned. It's quite powerful to become more aware of the energy connections we make with the foods we eat.

[Monica]

She said that animals have no discontinuity of their spirit and body. When the body dies, the spirit is immediately released to Eternal Spirit, and the animal understands this circle, that by it's death it gives life to another.

I don't understand this. Why, then, does the prey try desperately to escape when hunted? Why does a dying deer have terror in his eyes?

[Shemaya]

She said that animals have no discontinuity of their spirit and body. When the body dies, the spirit is immediately released to Eternal Spirit, and the animal understands this circle, that by it's death it gives life to another.

I don't understand this. Why, then, does the prey try desperately to escape when hunted? Why does a dying deer have terror in his eyes?

I didn't really understand why either, I expected an answer that was more to my liking...this was the answer I was given.

[Lavazza]

I don't understand this. Why, then, does the prey try desperately to escape when hunted? Why does a dying deer have terror in his eyes?

Survival is a deeply ingrained mechanism in any living thing, right? Red ray functioning as it should. Animals and all second density life exist without the veil, so on some level they understand their place in the greater cosmic scheme of things, but that doesn't impede the survival instinct or the desire to remain alive. That goes for most humans too- although our rational thinking and emotional minds are sufficiently advanced so that we can overcome that red ray urge if we desire (suicide, martyrdom, political (going to war), etc.)... Animals and plants do not have highly advanced brains though, so you'll never see them act in that way.

[unity100]

so on some level they understand their place in the greater cosmic scheme of things,

im pretty much thinking that this is a justification/rationalization on our side, rather than the reality.

[Lavazza]

so on some level they understand their place in the greater cosmic scheme of things,

im pretty much thinking that this is a justification/rationalization on our side, rather than the reality.

I'm not attempting to pass judgment or rationalize anything. I'm just saying that I think animals understand who they are metaphysically. Besides, even if I was, you're the guy who was advocating equal rights and treatment to rocks a while back (recall the 1st density consciousness thread...)

Submitted to you in good humor of course.

[unity100]

I'm not attempting to pass judgment or rationalize anything. I'm just saying that I think animals understand who they are metaphysically. Besides, even if I was, you're the guy who was advocating equal rights and treatment to rocks a while back (recall the 1st density consciousness thread...)

Submitted to you in good humor of course.

of course i was. and i still am.

today's rock, is tomorrow's enlightened entity. that tomorrow may be in this octave, or the next.

i say that animals are not understanding who are they metaphysically, but instead, they are understanding that, at their level of development, such a thing should not be happening to them. hence, the horror.

[Monica]

Survival is a deeply ingrained mechanism in any living thing, right?

Yes. The question is: Why? Why is it so deeply ingrained?

[Lavazza]

'Cause we wouldn't be here talking about it if it wasn't? (easy answer I know)

[Monica]

'Cause we wouldn't be here talking about it if it wasn't? (easy answer I know)

What I mean is, it seems incongruent to me, to say that an animal has no distinction between physical life and greater life...if life was continuous to the animal, then why does it have the instinct to cling to physical life? to the point of running, fighting, and frantically trying to stay physically alive?

[Peregrinus]

The survival instinct, it appears, is programming.

Q'uo, 1990_0930

Thus, perhaps the first way of gazing at your conscious behavior that so often is not what you wish it would or could be, [is to realize that] you well may be gazing at instinctual reactions which occur faster than your mind is able to respond. In no way, when this occurs, should the physical vehicle be blamed. In no way should the mind and the spirit governing this vehicle be dismayed or discouraged. There are times in this extremely dense illusion when the survival instinct of your physical vehicle will take over, simply because the computer of your mind keeps the entity alive as a first priority. It is not your spirit that wishes your life to linger, it is your body.

Your consciousness is not programmed, but your mind is. Your mind is a machine, biochemical in nature, and much like a computer in that, through a series of yes/no decisions, a very, very small percentage of all that you see, and hear, and feel, and taste and touch, is filtered, ruthlessly, so that you may gain the picture that your biocomputer has chosen to show you, which gives you the greatest amount of information concerning the survival of the entity’s physical vehicle, and the safe storage of one’s habitual thinking processes.

2006_0507

The body that is your physical vehicle is the outward and physical sign of your consciousness. It is not your consciousness. The physical body, left to itself, is as any animal among your many species of animals upon your planet. It has an instinctual life and it owns a brain which you generally experience as that brain that makes decisions. That is what your physical body’s brain was created for, as a choice- making tool. It makes choices on a hierarchy of priorities, the first being survival.

When you took upon yourselves the ambition of entering incarnation, you agreed upon a process that would inextricably bind you to this physical vehicle which you now enjoy, for the duration of your incarnation.

The consciousness that you possess as a citizen of eternity moved into interpenetrative intimacy, body upon body, so that the body of your consciousness—which some call a light body, some call the energy body and others call the chakra system—interpenetrated the physical form and connected with it in a very careful and specific way.

We give this instrument the vision of a plant which grows up within a pot. The pot has the soil necessary for the growth of the plant. The energy which creates the ability for that plant to grow is found in the soil of the pot. That is what your physical vehicle is. It is a clay vessel.

You, as consciousness, made an agreement with that body or physical vehicle, before incarnation. That body agreed to carry you. In a sense you may see yourselves, all of you, each and every one, as a walk- in, to use the New Age term familiar to this instrument. You, as a human species are a species of walk-ins.

Into the natural physical vehicle your consciousness walked in, made its connections with each of the various facets of your energy system that connect directly into your physical body along the line of the spine and you settled in for a shared experience together where the physical vehicle would have the privilege of carrying consciousness and you, as consciousness, would have the privilege of having an incarnation in flesh. It is a beautiful and a carefully made collaboration which you enjoy.

Left to the choices of the physical body, the kind and degree of illness which you experience as human beings would not exist. You would be healthy until your physical vehicle became weary. Given that you had food and water and the things that you needed for life, you would undoubtedly remain healthy until that illness which offered you the opportunity to leave the incarnation presented itself.

The drama of stress and tension that you experience and all of the emotional and physical aftereffects of such difficulty within the so-called energy body would not be experienced. Yours would be a life as natural as that of a cat, a horse, or a grizzly bear. In your environment you would thrive if there were enough food, enough water, enough salt, and so forth. Life would be simple.

For the human being the simplicity of that life becomes hidden. You cannot reconnect with the animal body and become a simple animal. The nature of your consciousness militates against such a choice.

2007_1124 This appears to offer clarity to the crux of understanding survival

Let us look for a moment at the mind and the confusion that entities upon your planet have about this organ. There is a mind that came with your body. That mind is that which was created to make choices for survival. Call it the choice-maker. It thinks in terms, partially, of physical instinct, survival, the gathering of the things that are needed for survival, and so forth. The choice-making mind shall always look for advantage. It shall always look for that which is useful, functional, able to offer advantage. You are very familiar, all too familiar, with this mind. Few of those who are awake and aware of the nature of the spirit are very fond of the mind that is the choice-maker.

[Shemaya]

I don't understand this. Why, then, does the prey try desperately to escape when hunted? Why does a dying deer have terror in his eyes?

Survival is a deeply ingrained mechanism in any living thing, right? Red ray functioning as it should. Animals and all second density life exist without the veil, so on some level they understand their place in the greater cosmic scheme of things, but that doesn't impede the survival instinct or the desire to remain alive. That goes for most humans too- although our rational thinking and emotional minds are sufficiently advanced so that we can overcome that red ray urge if we desire (suicide, martyrdom, political (going to war), etc.)... Animals and plants do not have highly advanced brains though, so you'll never see them act in that way.

Was thinking of the survival instinct...but the thought didn't leave my head to reach my fingertips. That makes sense to me.

I am thinking that humans who are disconnected from Spirit/Higher self are often acting out of survival instincts, which are usually based on fear, fear of death ultimately.

Thanks for the quotes Pere! I will have to look at those closer and contemplate.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I came across this session a couple weeks ago and it has given me much "food" for thought. (har har)

First, to address the issue of this particular session not resonating with people. Q'uo (and most other channels) encourage us to use our own discernment as the ultimate truth. Claiming this session contains more distortions than others simply because it doesn't resonate with you as strong as others seems to be a very personal opinion. If it's possible for that amount of distortion in this session, which you may not particularly agree with, then why feel that all other sessions that do resonate with you are less distorted? It's completely possible they contain just as many distortions, just distortions that you may agree with. Using your own discernment to decide which information to take with you is the key, but I feel that discounting the purity of the message for everyone because it doesn't resonate with you alone is a subjective point of view.

I mean to ruffle no feathers here, but if this session has resonated with someone strongly, claiming that it is more distorted may make that person doubt themselves and to what they resonate. In my personal experience, doubt is very powerful and can be a difficult weed to pull.

Now, my personal experience with this session requires a bit of back-story. A little more than a year ago, my parents fulfilled their dream of owning a farm. The story itself is amazing, full of miracles and great synchronicity, leading my mom to live within an image she has seen since she was a small child. My mom is a very caring, sympathetic, and in touch with nature. In the spirit of following her heart, not only has she started down a path exploring the world of growing vegetables etc., she has acquired goats and chickens.

After learning all she could learn and exploring all options she could in dealing with these animals, she had a great moment of remorse. She could not understand how following her heart led her to a place that most "awakened" people might despise. It became hard for me to convince her that she was living from her heart and she began to doubt her dream. She had lost sight of the love that I saw so strongly within her.

I can watch her spend hours with the animals, sometimes just observing, sometimes walking among them and talking to them. I can almost literally see the love pouring out from her, her gratefulness to them for their lessons and existence nearly palpable. And as I spend time with the animals myself, I can feel that love resonate.

These conscious entities live their lives with my mom's full appreciation. What about the organic vegetables the awakened vegetarians eat? Are all vegetable farmers as appreciative of their crop? As Q'uo said in this session:

So the question becomes, my friends, how to sustain a consciousness that is capable of approaching every meal with the awareness that perhaps the asparagus screamed as it was broken off of its mother. Perhaps the green beans cried to be taken from the vine. Perhaps the steer did not wish to leave its pasture, no matter how pitiful.

Placing the consciousness of animals above that of vegetables (which for a major part DO try to defend their lives with various defense systems) seems to be placing a hierarchy on life.

My mom, without reading this session, has moved into the same vibration as Q'uo's words. With releasing her doubt, she's even started to discover an even greater purpose for her dream. She finds herself working with the local 4H program, where she's able to teach the children she works with about mindfulness and appreciation of the animals with which they have the honor to work (not to mention the importance of sustained and organic farming).

There are further lessons to be learned in our separated lifestyle before we can fully function as a 4D society, and as Q'uo stated in this session, we place the responsibility on ourselves. If you feel it is your responsibility to be vegetarian then do not hesitate. My mom found her responsibility in bringing greater understanding of appreciation of life into this world. Hopefully we can eliminate cruel treatment of food animals, which seems to me to be the next step in eliminating separation in our lives regarding nourishment.

This post is highly biased and personal because of my love for my mom , but I thought I should share.

[Monica]

I am thinking that humans who are disconnected from Spirit/Higher self are often acting out of survival instincts, which are usually based on fear, fear of death ultimately.

What I'm wondering is: Why would animals have such a strong survival instinct? If they aren't disconnected from Spirit, and don't mind offering themselves to be consumed by others, then why do they fight so hard to survive?

(My question isn't directed at you personally Shemaya, but at whoever wants to offer an answer.)

[Shemaya]

I think the survival instinct is programmed into the bodies/instinctive mind of those of us who are incarnated for the purpose of keeping evolution going. If we all offered our bodies freely , it's likely that a particular species could easily become extinct, and thus end their evolutionary path. In humans the survival instinct helps us protect ourselves from harm.

The main point I want to make is that it is programmed as an instinct, so the body acts on that as a biological imperative. Fear activates our "flight or fright " /sympathetic nervous system and this serves a purpose of improving the odds for survival. This is when your adrenaline starts pumping etc. Heroic acts of saving others from harm can occur because we have this response in our body.

Spirit ,on the other hand is immortal, and has no fear of death.

[/i]

[unity100]

What I'm wondering is: Why would animals have such a strong survival instinct? If they aren't disconnected from Spirit, and don't mind offering themselves to be consumed by others, then why do they fight so hard to survive?

(My question isn't directed at you personally Shemaya, but at whoever wants to offer an answer.)

it basically means, the spirit wants to survive and manifest. since mind is spirit's projection and body is its creation.

[Shemaya]

Now, my personal experience with this session requires a bit of back-story. A little more than a year ago, my parents fulfilled their dream of owning a farm. The story itself is amazing, full of miracles and great synchronicity, leading my mom to live within an image she has seen since she was a small child. My mom is a very caring, sympathetic, and in touch with nature. In the spirit of following her heart, not only has she started down a path exploring the world of growing vegetables etc., she has acquired goats and chickens.

After learning all she could learn and exploring all options she could in dealing with these animals, she had a great moment of remorse. She could not understand how following her heart led her to a place that most "awakened" people might despise. It became hard for me to convince her that she was living from her heart and she began to doubt her dream. She had lost sight of the love that I saw so strongly within her.

I can watch her spend hours with the animals, sometimes just observing, sometimes walking among them and talking to them. I can almost literally see the love pouring out from her, her gratefulness to them for their lessons and existence nearly palpable. And as I spend time with the animals myself, I can feel that love resonate.

Beautiful story, thanks for sharing

Hopefully we can eliminate cruel treatment of food animals, which seems to me to be the next step in eliminating separation in our lives regarding nourishment.

I think we can....I agree !![/quote]