Too spiritual?

[Amiyou]

I was just wondering what other people thought about what I believe to be a slight problem.
I really don't want to offend anyone, but there's a good chance I will.
It may seem to some that they are making vast progress in learning and beginning to understand the bigger picture about life, creation, and what it means to be human. Obviously many people are coming on in leaps and bounds in terms of improving themselves and raising their level of thought to a greater place, and that's great.
My concern is that some people get carried away and begin to feel they are somehow about to transform into a glowing ball of light, there are people calling themselves wanderers and speculating about what density they are from, and labelling themselves with titles that, quite frankly are a bit nauseating. I mean I've noticed people calling themselves 'christed being' and various other kinds of labels, talking too much of love and light, some unfortunately start to behave in a horribly false delusion that they are somehow better than others.
Some might say that it's not true that they believe they are better, that they are just saying what feels true to them. That may be so in many cases, but I think it's important to look at the impact of getting carried away with all the talk of which colour rays you are working on and all of that sort of thing.
When the people that currently control this planet wanted to turn people away from any thoughts of a higher spiritual nature they deliberately put irritating, over smiley people on the television, usually with their hair dyed white to top off the image in order to do one thing, to put the other people off listening to them, and ultimately fixing an idea in the mind of what spirituality is all about.
Now, I don't want to upset anyone or ruin the good feeling they have created and I am well aware that some are making great progress and becoming much better people, I just think it's important to remember, for the sake of all the people who need to start understanding things from a higher perspective, that we do not fit the image of spirituality that was designed to put people off thinking about it.
Ok, that's it. Shoot me anywhere, but not in the face.

[unity100]

My concern is that some people get carried away and begin to feel they are somehow about to transform into a glowing ball of light,

really isnt it. at some stage one tends to totally miss that there are various mechanics and rules that infinite intelligence has set for manifestation in a given universe. there may be exceptions, there may be different routes, or even things that can be considered miraculous for a given point, but one needs to keep grounded.

and labelling themselves with titles that, quite frankly are a bit nauseating. I mean I've noticed people calling themselves 'christed being' and various other kinds of labels, talking too much of love and light, some unfortunately start to behave in a horribly false delusion that they are somehow better than others.

it indeed can be quite irritating. tho, i dont think they are behaving in a delusion of being better than others. they are probably thinking that they are doing the right thing.

Ok, that's it. Shoot me anywhere, but not in the face.

dick cheney would disagree.

[JoshC]

I don't think it's possible to be "too" anything in the furthest abstract sense - everything simply is what it is. As for people devoting a lot of time and energy into some things more than others, I think that if that's the route they want to take, far be it from me to tell them to do otherwise. Everyone walks their own path, and while mine doesn't include placing importance on vibrations, chakras, or what density I inhabited prior to third, I'm not going to say that other people's paths can't include those things. To each his/her own

Peace Love Unity Respect :idea:

[Shemaya]

I was just wondering what other people thought about what I believe to be a slight problem.

Hi Amiyou,
To me you are just talking about being grounded, which actually is very spiritual. I mean that is what we are actually here for, to live and create on the solid earth.

It is sometimes more comfortable to stay in "lala" land, and not keep in our awareness the reality of the conditions here. This place is a "valley of the shadow of death" there is so much pain and suffering, and if it is happening to someone else , it does affect you and I whether we are aware of it or not.

I agree with you that spirituality, like anything else, can become an ego trap. Another way to feel better than or superior to others, and we do well to guard against this tendency within ourselves.

As far as talking about the chakras or rays, I'm not sure what bothers you about this. To me it's all symbolic and a way to categorize the "work in consciousness" that we do on our spiritual path.

Quote:Ok, that's it. Shoot me anywhere, but not in the face.


dick cheney would disagree.

hahaha that's funny unity100

[unity100]

I don't think it's possible to be "too" anything in the furthest abstract sense - everything simply is what it is.

how about alister crowley ?

[JoshC]

I dunno who that is, but yes anyone on both sides of the spectrum. Jesus and Hitler were neither too "this" nor not enough "that," in my opinion.

[unity100]

I dunno who that is, but yes anyone on both sides of the spectrum. Jesus and Hitler were neither too "this" nor not enough "that," in my opinion.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

correction : aleister crowley

[Phoenix]

When the people that currently control this planet wanted to turn people away from any thoughts of a higher spiritual nature they deliberately put irritating, over smiley people on the television, usually with their hair dyed white to top off the image in order to do one thing, to put the other people off listening to them, and ultimately fixing an idea in the mind of what spirituality is all about.

I dunno. Even though this has neglectfully become the running commentary in this place there is no proof of what 'the people who currently control this planet' wanted or how they set out to achieve their aims, or that they really control what you are suggesting they control.

[JoshC]

I dunno who that is, but yes anyone on both sides of the spectrum. Jesus and Hitler were neither too "this" nor not enough "that," in my opinion.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

correction : aleister crowley

Oh that's a perfect example for the thread! Nice one Yes I think even he wasn't too spiritual... The idea of the existence of "too" something means that there are things and/or choices that are better or worse than other things and/or choices. Only in the reality which allows for polarity, that is, right and wrong, left and right, better and worse, hot and cold, is such a thing possible. Coming from the realm which shows "this" and "that," that is, the realm that provides for contrast, it's certainly possible to say that someone is too spiritual, but such a labeling is only one's labeling and interpretation of reality.

My answer deals with and comes from the realm of absolutes - that is, there is not hot or cold, there is no right or wrong, there is no left or right, there is no better or worse. The approach I take here is how I approach most of life

I dunno. Even though this has neglectfully become the running commentary in this place there is no proof of what 'the people who currently control this planet' wanted or how they set out to achieve their aims, or that they really control what you are suggesting they control.

Agreed - and even that there are people who attempt to control this planet.

[Amiyou]

I don't think it's possible to be "too" anything in the furthest abstract sense - everything simply is what it is. As for people devoting a lot of time and energy into some things more than others, I think that if that's the route they want to take, far be it from me to tell them to do otherwise. Everyone walks their own path, and while mine doesn't include placing importance on vibrations, chakras, or what density I inhabited prior to third, I'm not going to say that other people's paths can't include those things. To each his/her own

Peace Love Unity Respect :idea:

I wasn't trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be, just to keep in mind that if we want, what I think most want, which is a planet full of people that understand more about life, and to show all those lost in anger and confusion that there is a way out of that bad feeling, then we should be very aware that the over spiritual language and image that some like to take on will push most people away from even looking.
Some will say that they will look when they are ready and not before, but that's rubbish, they will look when there is something reasonable to look at rather than, as I said, only the image that was specifically created to put people off.

And yeah, that was funny, unity. Remind me not to go hunting with him.

[Peregrinus]

Some will say that they will look when they are ready and not before, but that's rubbish, they will look when there is something reasonable to look at rather than, as I said, only the image that was specifically created to put people off.

We each are on our own paths. Some see what is before their eyes, others do not. It is your place to not look for what you do not wish to see, and in that is perfection. Can you accept the same for others, whether they see or not?

And... welcome to the forum. I am unsure as to how long you have been here, but I have not seen you here before. Oh, and the answer to your namely question. Yes.

[Brittany]

I like Ra and Quo's perspective on this issue. "Take what resonates. Leave the rest." I don't necessarily agree with all the perceived wisdom people feel compelled to offer, but I know I can learn something from just about everyone. I learn what I can from their words, and if parts of it annoy me or I find it contrary to my own beliefs, I simply set it aside. In my opinion, it just isn't worth getting worked up about what other people are thinking or doing. In spite of the fact that we are all one, I am not responsible for other people's paths or what they think of themselves/the universe/etc. If my opinion is asked for I'll certainly give it, and I try to make my example one people would be inspired to follow, but I just don't have the energy to worry about how many people out there believe in something different than I do. To me, it's a whole lot easier to just enjoy the scenery.

[turtledude23]

I understand where you're coming from amiyou, some members annoyed me at first but STO is about acceptance. As long as they're not harming anyone let them be. We're all unique, we all have unique ways of expressing ourselves. If one person's preferred way of expressing them self seems arrogant or over top to you, so what? They're not hurting anyone, and they probably are giving some good information in their posts. You can find wisdom even from an illiterate drunk, so surely you could find at least some wisdom from people who read the same book as you. And maybe they're not being as weird as you think they are. Reality is relative to the instrument measuring it, as Robert Anton Wilson would say.

[Monica]

I understand where you're coming from amiyou, some members annoyed me at first but STO is about acceptance. As long as they're not harming anyone let them be. We're all unique, we all have unique ways of expressing ourselves. If one person's preferred way of expressing them self seems arrogant or over top to you, so what? They're not hurting anyone, and they probably are giving some good information in their posts. You can find wisdom even from an illiterate drunk, so surely you could find at least some wisdom from people who read the same book as you. And maybe they're not being as weird as you think they are. Reality is relative to the instrument measuring it, as Robert Anton Wilson would say.

Well said!!!

Especially this part:

STO is about acceptance.

[Amiyou]

I understand where you're coming from amiyou, some members annoyed me at first but STO is about acceptance. As long as they're not harming anyone let them be. We're all unique, we all have unique ways of expressing ourselves. If one person's preferred way of expressing them self seems arrogant or over top to you, so what? They're not hurting anyone, and they probably are giving some good information in their posts. You can find wisdom even from an illiterate drunk, so surely you could find at least some wisdom from people who read the same book as you. And maybe they're not being as weird as you think they are. Reality is relative to the instrument measuring it, as Robert Anton Wilson would say.

Well said!!!

Especially this part:

STO is about acceptance.

Ok, thanks for the responses so far. But I must say this before people get carried away, say whatever you feel, but don't put words in my mouth please.
I did not say it annoyed me, that is entirely altering what I said. I did say I found it a bit nauseating, but that is different to annoyance, and I'm quite happy for people to be what they want to be.
The point was not wether it annoys me, not about being accepting of people. It was simply this:-
If people go over the top and fit the image that was created to put people off thinking in any spiritual capacity. Then i think it makes it a whole lot harder for others to see the things that caused people to get that strong spiritual feeling.
It's a bit like science being written in the code language that they mostly use, hiding behind mathmatical equations are beautiful things that most will never know because of the language and methods used to describe it.
I was really just saying, it might be a little more thoughtful for the sake of others to try to keep the language and behaviour a little bit more accessible for people who otherwise have not a lot of chance to see what it is that created that feeling, and as a result those people who currently know only what the television and authorities tell them to know, will continue to be pushed around by those in the world that wish to manipulate their thinking.
I suppose it's a bit like people escaping from a sinking ship, some will see the escape route and run, never looking back, others will stand by the exit and not leave that post so that the other slower escapees can see where to go.
Again, I'm not telling anyone to be anything, or do anything, except to consider that they could be very helpful to the mentality of the planet if they can control their language and behaviour a little more.

[Lorna]

I'm surprised by your post Amiyou - Bring4th was set up to discuss the Ra Material and the language I have seen on this forum on the whole reflects the terminology used in the channelled material. This forum isn't a starting point for people in the early stages of their spiritual journey - if people haven't read the Law of One channellings then this forum really isn't going to make a whole lot of sense in part because of the language used, therefore I don't understand why you would make this post.

If you are nauseated by people discussing experiences as a wanderer, what density might be home and using the phrase love and light, then it makes me wonder whether you have read the Ra Material as these labels are very fully explored within the sessions? For me the label wanderer is a concept that is explanatory, helping me to understand my own experiences - not something that sets me apart from, and certainly not above, anyone else - that completely contradicts the LOO concept. If people are reading heirarchical intent into these labels then I would suggest that is their issue to deal with.

[fairyfarmgirl]

I wonder is Amiyou is trolling? If not, Welcome to the Bring4th Forum where we discuss and learn about the Law of One.

Perhaps, the feeling nauseated by Love and Light indicates perhaps some blockages perhaps in the HEART chakra. All that love and light giving you indigestion. Are we torturing with our kindness. I bless you with Love!

--fairyfarmgirl

[Monica]

My concern is that some people get carried away and begin to feel they are somehow about to transform into a glowing ball of light,

Some people surely do believe that, sometime in the next year or 2, this will happen to them or maybe even the whole world. Others think life will continue on as usual, and still others think we will be in a transition for several hundred more years. We have several threads in The Harvest dedicated to this topic.

If people can't discuss such topics here, on a forum dedicated to study of the Law of One, where else can they discuss them?

there are people calling themselves wanderers and speculating about what density they are from,

Amiyou, I am wondering whether you have read the Law of One? We know from Ra that there are many Wanderers (from other densiites) currently incarnated on this planet, and it's reasonable to conclude that many, if not most, of those attracted to the Law of One are in fact Wanderers.

Why not talk about it? It is, after all, who we are, so why deny it?

and labelling themselves with titles that, quite frankly are a bit nauseating. I mean I've noticed people calling themselves 'christed being' and various other kinds of labels,

I understand what you're referring to. I've seen a lot of New Age gurus elevate themselves above others. But usually it's with a lot more than a single term like Wanderer. It's with their entire demeanor as well. Are you referring to these New Age people in general, or have you seen that happen here on Bring4th?

talking too much of love and light, some unfortunately start to behave in a horribly false delusion that they are somehow better than others.
Some might say that it's not true that they believe they are better, that they are just saying what feels true to them. That may be so in many cases, but I think it's important to look at the impact of getting carried away with all the talk of which colour rays you are working on and all of that sort of thing.

Now I'm really wondering whether you've read the Law of One. Working on balancing the rays is a crucially important part of our work. Hearing Law of One students talk about balancing rays is akin to hearing Catholics talk about giving up candy for Lent. It's part of what we do, in our spiritual path.

When the people that currently control this planet wanted to turn people away from any thoughts of a higher spiritual nature they deliberately put irritating, over smiley people on the television, usually with their hair dyed white

White? That seems odd to me...most of our newscasters are trying to look younger, not older. Or are you referring to tv mega-church pastors?

I don't want to upset anyone

You are free to express your opinion here, Amiyou. (love the name, by the way!)

I just think it's important to remember, for the sake of all the people who need to start understanding things from a higher perspective, that we do not fit the image of spirituality that was designed to put people off thinking about it.

Well we definitely don't fit any image of spirituality!

---

I'm surprised by your post Amiyou - Bring4th was set up to discuss the Ra Material and the language I have seen on this forum on the whole reflects the terminology used in the channelled material. This forum isn't a starting point for people in the early stages of their spiritual journey - if people haven't read the Law of One channellings then this forum really isn't going to make a whole lot of sense in part because of the language used, therefore I don't understand why you would make this post.

If you are nauseated by people discussing experiences as a wanderer, what density might be home and using the phrase love and light, then it makes me wonder whether you have read the Ra Material as these labels are very fully explored within the sessions? For me the label wanderer is a concept that is explanatory, helping me to understand my own experiences - not something that sets me apart from, and certainly not above, anyone else - that completely contradicts the LOO concept. If people are reading heirarchical intent into these labels then I would suggest that is their issue to deal with.

Ah, I should have read your post first, Lorna! Exactly what I was trying to say!

Amiyou: You are welcome to stick around. I invite you to become familiar with the Law of One, if you aren't already. Then our terminology will make a lot more sense to you! You can download the Law of One books for free in our library.

[unity100]

It's a bit like science being written in the code language that they mostly use, hiding behind mathmatical equations are beautiful things that most will never know because of the language and methods used to describe it.
I was really just saying, it might be a little more thoughtful for the sake of others to try to keep the language and behaviour a little bit more accessible for people who otherwise have not a lot of chance to see what it is that created that feeling, and as a result those people who currently know only what the television and authorities tell them to know, will continue to be pushed around by those in the world that wish to manipulate their thinking.

there is a point in this. and also, the first post.

some people talk about how they leapt 5 octaves forward, and then came back, how they are actually one with the creation and infinite here and now (in real, not in spirit or principle, actively infinite), this and that.

these dont carry any explanation. any reasoning. anything to ground these with to existing life, or even elementary spiritual concepts. WAY too subjective, and unusable. these are all fancy talk to people who are just starting.

when one shares, s/he should try to share what is shared as concisely and clearly as possible. not just use the communal speaking grounds that was intended for people learning from each other, as a means to just recite their experience for their own sake. this, in itself is also a need. however, there are appropriate sections for that.

then there's responsibility. sharing, is responsibility. if one undertakes it, s/he should try to do it to the best level s/he can, clear, and useful. its one's responsibility towards other selves.

..............

then there is the question of genuineness. some people who think that they are giving energy to other people over a particular ray, may actually be taking that energy, and may not be even aware of that. they may be equating the feeling that one feels when receiving a particular ray, with its giving.

a chakra that is fully open should not incur that situation. in the case of giving out 100%, technically the entity which is giving out that ray 100% should not feel that ray's energy at all, because of radiating it fully.

then again this is probably the reason why entities are mirrors of others, because it is impossible for a truly open entity to know what s/he is like, according to a particular ray's quality. only we can see the effects of our radiation on others, and get to know our own self.

so it is probably this reason, why people who actually claim to be following a particular ray work - like green - to speedily deteriorate to angst, aggression, fighting, when disagreements happen. an entity truly open in the green ray, should not deteriorate into that situation. but, if the entity is taking from a chakra yet, instead of having opened it and giving, it would be normal.

[Eno]

I got that feeling when I first came here as well, however, reading a small portion of the Law of One really cleared up some of those ideas. also I think you will find the people on this forum are much more interested in helping others than anything

[Aaron]

I think I understand what you're saying, Amiyou. In a world where the unawakened are like ships lost in a stormy sea, continually bombarded with waves of manipulation and deceitfulness from every direction, the best thing that's going to come out of their relationship with you is the gentle, guiding light that you offer from your point of greater understanding made possible in large part by the Ra material. Are they going to more easily be able to accept this guiding light into their lives from a humble friend, or from a self proclaimed being of light or what have you? I believe it's about ego distortions, as Shemaya suggested. If you (not you personally, but in general) feel entitled, look to the possibility that your ego isn't allowing all this empowering energy to flow through you completely and smoothly to be of benefit to others.

I suppose it's about humbly living your highest truth, allowing that to be a shining example to others. This should be greatly empowered by the material, not partially hindered by it. And of course, how can we know what another entity needs on their spiritual path? Maybe the taking of a title for them at that moment is the "right" thing to do.

[turtledude23]

The point was not wether it annoys me, not about being accepting of people. It was simply this:-
If people go over the top and fit the image that was created to put people off thinking in any spiritual capacity. Then i think it makes it a whole lot harder for others to see the things that caused people to get that strong spiritual feeling.
It's a bit like science being written in the code language that they mostly use, hiding behind mathmatical equations are beautiful things that most will never know because of the language and methods used to describe it.
I was really just saying, it might be a little more thoughtful for the sake of others to try to keep the language and behaviour a little bit more accessible for people who otherwise have not a lot of chance to see what it is that created that feeling, and as a result those people who currently know only what the television and authorities tell them to know, will continue to be pushed around by those in the world that wish to manipulate their thinking.

It's alot to ask of someone for them to change the way they express ideas, especially very abstract ideas having to do with metaphysics. There may be, in theory, more accurate ways of describing abstract metaphysical concepts such as the type of language Ra uses when speaking to Don, but each person is different, some people would gain more of the message's essential meaning if it was jam packed full of imagery, symbolism, subjectivity, emotions, and so on - in fact I'm guessing that it's probably a minority of users on this forum that would prefer an "academic" type of language.

Maybe trying to find the hidden jewel of wisdom in an apparently poorly phrased message can act as good catalyst for you in regards to accepting people as they are.

I suppose it's a bit like people escaping from a sinking ship, some will see the escape route and run, never looking back, others will stand by the exit and not leave that post so that the other slower escapees can see where to go.

Could you elaborate on that analogy, I don't see how it's relevant to what you said before.

Again, I'm not telling anyone to be anything, or do anything, except to consider that they could be very helpful to the mentality of the planet if they can control their language and behaviour a little more.

Just because something would be helpful to you doesn't mean it would be helpful to the whole planet. Everyone expresses themselves differently and there isn't much you can do about it, but if you want to polarize to service to others then wanting to change anything about one wouldn't help you polarize. People expressing themselves differently is a good thing, it provides multiple perspectives on a given topic, and each person will feel more in tune with a certain perspective than another one. Worst case scenario is no one says anything remotely useful, but even then it can be used as catalyst - any and every situation can be win-win if you accept things as they are, you naturally look for the silver lining.

[Ankh]

If all paths would be the same then there would be no infinity in creation.

If something resonates with me, then it's "true" to me for now. It is a tool I use in the present moment climbing that infinite mountain of creation. And since creation is infinite there are infinite others who climbing it, trying to mastering it, and they are telling you (not you personally, I speak in general terms) their view, and these sharings are your tools. It is your choice if you want to use them or not, and which one you want to use, and which not. The one you didn't choose might be perfect to me. In present moment.

[@ndy]

Hello there.
Why do you think you find these things nauseous? Why are you concerned with how others express themselves, or what other people will make of their expression?

It often seems people talking about spiritual things talk in parables, riddles and such.
I got the impression this acts not impose concepts on others but instead offer information that allows for personal interpretation or rejection.

[Amiyou]

Thank you for the responses. I meant to answer some of the questions sooner, but got caught up with other things.
I also found myself feeling a bit put off any further attempts to discuss the topic when someone almost immediately used the word "troll".
But I learned what I wanted to learn.
And just to answer a couple of questions that I remember immediately.
Yes I have read the books!
I care how others see this information simply because I care!
I was not asking for a simplification of the information for my benefit, and simplification was not what I was enquiring about anyway!
Anyway, some people understood exactly what I was trying to say and that is a relief, the way some reacted made me feel that I must be writing n a foreign language or something. I suspect a few just ignored my post in it's entirety and just wanted to say their piece for the sake of talking.
Anyway, as I said I got to learn what I wanted to learn through the post, and I consider it finished now. Of course that doesn't mean others cannot continue if they wish. Thank you for your time.

[rva_jeremy]

My concern is that some people get carried away and begin to feel they are somehow about to transform into a glowing ball of light, there are people calling themselves wanderers and speculating about what density they are from, and labelling themselves with titles that, quite frankly are a bit nauseating. I mean I've noticed people calling themselves 'christed being' and various other kinds of labels, talking too much of love and light, some unfortunately start to behave in a horribly false delusion that they are somehow better than others.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've encountered this much more, to be honest, in other metaphysical fora than here. Here it is just about the most balanced I've ever found, probably because there's a theme in the spiritual tradition we follow of eschewing the transient.

I echo what others have said about why this is perceived negatively. When a person offers these extraneous details and seemingly self-aggrandizing information, it is a kind of challenge. Do you accept what the person is telling you as valid or truthful, or do you reject it? As we struggle to accept we have to also face the fact that accepting pieces of information we fundamentally think are untrue or suspicious isn't really accepting at all. That's what I run into; maybe you have run into this conundrum, too.

For my part, we need to be aware of two dynamics and understand that, one, the other, or both are at play. On the one hand, our path is lonely as a mofo. People who are waking up to the energies will definitely have a confused experience of them. I know this because I share this confusion. On the other hand, there are people who, in their desire to connect, don't do a very good job of communicating. They oversell it.

To me, this is a similar situation to what I was talking about in another thread where people participate in this forum in a rigid and self-certain manner, coming across as instructing rather than sharing. It feels like these people are trying to smother us with their own sense of the Creator and undermine the view we have. They have no credibility, in other words. It's feels not so much like a matter of accepting and loving as it seems of the kinds of judgments we make moment after moment as we experience the Creation. "Is that glass positioned in a way it won't fall?" "Is this salesman lying?" "Which stock should I purchase?" We are constantly making decisions about the credibility of information. This forum won't be different.

But, of course, the answer is love, at least in my experience. Why do these things bother us? Because we're uncertain of our path, and the other's certainty - correctly or incorrectly placed - reminds us of our own lack of certainty. If this impels us to seek further within ourselves for something we can hold onto, then that is a net gain for us. If it motivates us to find a way to have an authentic connection with these people, so that we help them be grounded in something that builds real community and support for them, then that's a net gain for us. These opportunities exist.

Remember: the only thing we have true control over in this world is ourselves. And the more we can radiate something authentic and credible and able to bring people to common understanding, the more we set a tone where the distortions of these people are either healed or unable to impress themselves on what we're building.

[Fallen Destiny]

I like Ra and Quo's perspective on this issue. "Take what resonates. Leave the rest."

You just gave me a spiritual erection

[BlatzAdict]

umm i haven't had time to read the entire thread but personally.. i don't think it's that bad to think of yourself as star seed since there are supposed to be several million of us wanderers incarnate... we're all bound to be wanderers

we are all uniquely special.. and the sleeping ones are just as special too.. they just don't know it yet.

i think it's when we start to make a distinction between wanderer and not wanderer.. as if they are seperate from us.. thats the problem
they have every right and every thing in their power to "wake up".... as well
it's just we woke up first. doesn't make us better... just early birds.

at the end it boils down to how well you handle your own ego... and personal responsibility

[kycahi]

After reading everything, I went back to the original post. Amiyou began it being very polite, sort of saying, "Am I the only one who..?" Later in that post, probably just wanting to clarify, the language maybe strayed a little bit into judgmental territory. At least some here took it that way.

We also can interpret it as suggesting that some posters are unintentionally coming across as something that they really are not (or shouldn't want to be ).

Monica asked some excellent questions to clarify the OP. Those questions could have aided Amiyou to be clearer, or pushed toward revealing true colors.

I like this thread, on the whole. Perhaps it is a bit embarrassing to the B4th community, but if it guides toward more careful writing (by both the seemingly pompous and the overly critical) and not toward anyone leaving, all's well.

Lee

[mikesc]

I should have said something earlier, but as this post is still getting responses I might as well offer my two cents. I absolutely agree that the way in which spirituality is percieved can affect people's ability to accept things that might in fact be helpful to them.

Personally it took way too long for me to accept that there were things that I could learn from spirituality. This was do in large part to the way in which I saw spirituality. Obviously I had my own issues that made it difficult for me to consider things that were too far outside of my personal paradigms. Even so I still tend to think that it could be portrayed in a different light sometimes. At the risk of sounding controversial I'll even go one step further and say that contrary to the idea that everyones opinions are equally valid, I tend to think that this is very much about understanding better understaning how things really work and that some people definetely have a better understanding of reality than others. Yet everyone has an effect on the way in which spirituality is percieved.

Looking back I'm constantly surprised at all of the silly things I've done that if anything have convinced people that spirituality is for people that are, well perhaps a bit confused. Looking forward, while I won't deny myself and my opinions, I certainly am aware that this this is a very real issue. In reality this has been good for me as I I have often found that no matter how strange a concept, if I'm thinking clearly I should be able to talk about it in a way that at least doesn't make me seem crazy. Whereas if I find that people are thinking that I'm crazy then there is a good chance that I need to make some adjustments. I suppose I've found that the same words, "That Mike and his crazy ideas," can have very, very different meanings.