Why the hate for wisdom?

[hounsic]

I don’t think Jordan Petersen should get lumped in with alt/right.... I have listened to him speak for at least 12+ hours on his and others various podcast, and have never heard him say anything that would make me think alt right.

[Jade]

I don’t think Jordan Petersen should get lumped in with alt/right.... I have listened to him speak for at least 12+ hours on his and others various podcast, and have never heard him say anything that would make me think alt right.

I've also spent more than 12 hours studying Jordan Peterson, and I believe he is "intro to alt-right philosophy". He presents a pretty good case for a bigoted worldview. I also find him to be fairly openly misogynistic. His whole hysteria about the Canadian "compelled speech" law might as well have been a psyop, as he misrepresented it in such a cleverly insidious way that caused a fervor amongst bigots. Only bigots actually care about laws that protect people from being harassed - because we already have many of these, so if they actually had a problem, they would be speaking out against those laws, and not some law in Canada that merely *adds* trans people to the group of people who are protected, like those who are gay. Making this an outrage about "forcing me to call a person with a penis a she!!!!" is taking an action that is about protecting human rights and turning it into a huge smoke and mirrors about "free speech". I've mentioned before about using discernment to pick battles - fighting against a law that is protecting people from being harassed and making it the "free speech" ship that we all die on seems so confused to me. There are so many injustices in the world, and making people outraged about this tiny piece of the pie only seems to be done out of bigotry, that's my opinion. We ALL benefit from laws that are in theory to protect us from being harassed for any reason. What if someone was intentionally stalking and harassing you, intentionally calling you the wrong pronoun, shouting at you in public? Wouldn't you want the police to see this as something to respond to?

In fact, I think some of the men who are outraged about this bill would be *just as outraged* if someone was intentionally calling them "she/her" to harass them. If your name's Sam, and your coworker insists on condescendingly calling you "Samantha" as a means of harassing you, wouldn't you want to be able to take this to HR?

Jordan Peterson is able to fly under the radar but talking about "western civilization" as much as he does is, again, a dog whistle for white nationalism.

Also, his actual grasp on philosophy is extremely shallow. This is possible to understand if we look into the concepts and terminology he uses and actually study the concepts he uses. I have. He's using them wrong. He also has his own interpretation of the archetypes and it's ALL about repressing the dirty feminine manifestation of "chaos". I won't even get into that.

The word "pronoun" is literally not in the Canadian bill, did you know that? The bill protects transgendered people from being discriminated against and harassed at their job, like other minority groups. Jordan made claims that "this was the first type of law to be passed like this" and other lies to make people think this was something insidious. It's not.

Also, nobody has been arrested because of Bill C-16. It's been almost 2 years now. So why are we still scared? Why has this become the harbinger of fascism if the law isn't actually being enforced?

https://torontoist.com/2016/12/are-jorda...6-correct/

Remember, negative philosophy is packaged in a way to make it look like positive philosophy. It's usually 80% well and good but then there's that 20% that is really about separation and forming an elite. Jordan Peterson is smart and articulate, but I find that he is definitely a part of the alt-right culture, and I don't think that's an accident or coincidence.

[unity100]

Oh, I don't know if there is a 501c3 associated with them, sorry to be confusing. I was just saying that Christianity and politics go hand in hand, and they know how to dance together following the rules of the game, and that there is a group who is open about wanting to infiltrate politics with a Biblical agenda by having lots of babies and conditioning them to grow up to be politicians. I guess my point was that obviously there is politics in religion, and religion in politics. It's fairly late stage and unfortunately our system is super corrupt at this point.

Unfortunately it goes past any average biblical agenda: The current crop of Evangelists have extremely radicalized, and they have talking points ranging from jailing/killing atheists, left wing people, liberals etc to propping up Israel and prepare it to be destroyed by Arab states so that Jesus of Nazareth can come back a second time...

Its the most dangerous political group there is on the planet right now, due to that last bit. They were the main spearhead behind the Tea Party, which put GOP extremists under the leadership of Paul Ryan in control of Congress 2 elections back, and then transformed into the general dynamic behind Donald Trump's election. And their numbers, radicalism and influence are increasing.

Now, it is certain that Trump doesnt believe such stuff. It is questionable that Paul Ryan would too.

However there is a certain point in which increasing extremism demands action on their extremist views. So in the next decade, if their numbers increase and they eventually get control of a great part of US government, these people will mandate that their demands be fulfilled. Which will lead to leaders who have to give in to their demands even if the dont agree, or, they will have already elected one who believes their talking points.

As you can understand, ~7000 nuclear warheads which US has, being under the control of a such a dangerous movement, is very, very dangerous for entire civilization.

In case you remember, there hasnt been any 'second coming' of anyone when Maldekians destroyed their planet.

Therefore the current trend is dangerous and it must be addressed.

There are rules about what we as a 501©3 can do or say regarding politics. The focus is primarily on specific candidates and elections themselves, but it's not limited to just that. It becomes a very tricky topic when Bring4th is a platform provided via L/L Research resources, hosting opinions of non-L/L agents. But that caution is coupled with a desire to keep our mission separated from political discourse and animosity in general. Political bias can create such vivid distortion in perception that we don't want to unduly influence interpretation or interest in the material by having it adjacent to political discussion on an official L/L Research platform.

As early 4d matures and vibrations of the old orange heavy 3d society rises towards first yellow at large, then green, it will be impossible for anyone or any group to avoid politics...

Up until now, the world was mostly asleep, busy with themselves in a orange-tinted society caused by entities turning inwards, as Ra explains us. Now, they are slowly rising in vibration, moving to yellow - the social density. Everyone will get involved with their society and the happenings going on inside that society.

The rising amount of grassroots movements of all kinds is a major indicator of the change that is already happening.

...political correctness...

Back in the past, that was called 'being a decent person'...

It was mandatory to have that to be inside any decent society.

Now that it disturbs the American conservative types to treat better whom they previously treated as below them, and suddenly it is a problem. But ironically, inside themselves they never let go of political correctness - the 'tough love' and 'real talk' seems to only apply to the 'others'.

But far left ideologies are every bit as negative as far right ideologies, but most people are too brainwashed to see it.

"Left" doesnt even exist in US. The "Far" version of it cant even be present in such an environment.

To entire world outside, US is an amalgam of far right, vs right. The 'center' of US, is actually 'center right', which is, well, right...

equality of outcome, or equality of opportunity.

Things like this are escapist rhetoric propagated by the very rich segments who try to goad the right wing in US to support the immense inequality. Few of those people actually made their immense fortunes through any equal opportunity. Leave aside those like Koch Brothers, who practically bought entire US Congress 2 terms ago by spending $300 million.

And, that phrase doesnt even evaluate logically anyway: It doesnt matter whether a person gets $4 billion in wealth by using the opportunities given to him or not, he is de facto a feudal overlord on everyone because he has enough money to buy entire political machinery. And he does.

Negative leftist neo Marxist ideologies

According to Ra material negative path is one of elitism, where a minority elite enslaves the majority low classes and makes them work for their benefit. It is an unequal society. Moreover, they go on crusades by trying to subdue other planets to put them under their unequal hierarchy.

With that proposition, left wing cannot be negative. It advocates equality. Not in-equality.

And that word you use there, the 'neo Marxist', is not only scientifically wrong, since Marxism has not changed since its inception, but also a racist code word: in 1930s Nazis used "cultural Marxism" as a code word to mean "Jews", that the "Jews" were changing and transforming their society to fit their own desires through using Marxism. Today American alt-right uses the very exact Nazi terminology to propagate anti-semitism by equating the left and Jews.

Tells a lot about what's going on in US.

Well, its no surprise - in 1930 the wealthy elites backed fascist movements and Nazis in order to fight against the demands for equality from their populations too - look where it ended up...

Case in point: Koch Brothers spending $300 million through ~200 or so private organizations and think thanks in order to put a pro-fossil fuel, anti-egalitarian agenda so that neither the wealth inequality would be threatened with minor taxes, nor their oil business would be threatened by environmentalists.

Result?

Dozens of millions of Americans are paying it with their wallets, health, and even some of them are paying for it by having people from their social circle dying in Middle East in oil wars.

There is absolutely nothing which these people gain from this deal. Nada. Kapisch.

But they believe and follow these people, against 'neo Marxist' who threaten their 'way of life'...

That's negativity.

No wonder Ra called Cold War era 'free' US and its allies as controlled fascism...

The problem with allowing alt-right ideology like Jordan Peterson, Pepe the frog, anti trans speech, anti muslim speech, cries about deplatforming nazis, support for the wall, terms like SJWs, larping, NPCs, etc etc, is that here we are in a time of actual violent political turmoil.

Many of these lines of thought and discourse are obvious dog whistles for the white nationalist agenda, whether or not the people who are engaged with them realize this.

Allowing de facto hate speech with zero pushback normalizes the dehumanization of others in the alt-right echo chamber. Eventually, "SJWs" and the rest are so "other than" the crowd, that the group mocks victims of the violence, even if they aren't perpetrating this violence. If we have an attitude that we do everything "for the lulz", then even calls to or acts of violence and hate speech are merely "jokes", and this is by design. Even the term "NPC" is a meme meant to literally dehumanize others who disagree.

Precisely.

The fascist, ultra-right wing rhetoric always was, and today also is geared towards making some segments of the society 'others', vilifying them and then blaming the very problems and issues which are created by those who manipulate the right wing segments on those others'.

That was what exactly Nazis did. That's what every fascist group did - in every fascist setup there was one or more segments of the society which were 'undesirables' and they were causing all the issues because of their 'racial impurities' or religion or other behavioral models.

They just killed anyone who was moderately left wing or progressive compared to them without even trying to 'other-ize' them because these were too dangerous for their ideology and control. The real 'others' were dealt with later...

Though i firmly am for free speech myself, there is a point in which free speech is used for destroying free speech and any freedom by being used as a means to create and organize extremist authoritarian movements. All the fascist movements including Nazis came to power through influencing people through free speech, and Nazis had actually won an election. Then burned the parliament. Then blamed it on the communists. Declared martial law. Then jailed them all. And then proceeded to start a war that killed ~45 million people with the most conservative estimate.

US alt-right is following the same trend. Actually they are nearing the point at which they can directly be labeled fascists according to political science. There are already armed militants who are starting to create problems like Bundy people, and there are already an immense number of actual incidents of terrorism by alt-right extremists who actually kill people with guns.

There is a point which, when passed, those who were conservative moderates among the alt right will find themselves being seen as marginals and not properly in-line with the movement's ideology, much to their surprise. And then they will start suffering from the same aggression and prosecution which alt right is now currently directing towards 'others'...

[Minyatur]

Because I make the basic inherent assumption that people are *intelligent* enough to make rational decisions and they don't need to be babied, coddled, or restricted information because society is afraid it will turn them to the dark side. Shutting down free speech doesn't make negative philosophies go away. It just makes the philosophy more attractive to people because they feel like they are being lied too and suppressed. It just breeds resentment.

I do kind of see an issue with control policies based on fear, doubt, distrust and a lack of faith in people. I don't see how that has the potential to effect positive change in a metaphysical sense.

I think because people want results, they fail to work from a place of balance, acceptance and understanding and through this they fight negativity with negativity, reinforcing what they want to see gone.

I think positive change is effected more on small scales, where you know, people hearts open up and not because behaviors are dictated. We are often reminded of the importance of faith, so there is a limit to what can be achieved without it.

[Diana]

I think positive change is effected more on small scales, where you know, people hearts open up and not because behaviors are dictated.

I think this gets to the essence of the issue. This is just my opinion, but I don't think the human race is all that evolved yet. There are too many people "sleeping" and "following" and looking outward and not inward. All authorities (religions, governments, the media, etc.) are supported by the masses of people who are looking for something outside of self to tell them what to think and do and say (though I don't think this compulsion is conscious, because almost everybody thinks they think for themselves).

This world right now is so full of conflict. I think Unity100's view of the US is interesting. The media here (which is of course dictated by ruling powers, the deplorable Koch brothers and their influence being part of that machinery) certainly is having a heyday spouting all sorts of BS. The whole political left/right is nonsense to me, because it looks like one big petty game (to me), where the politicians within it are so compartmentalized at best thinking they are working within a real system, and manipulative at worst where both sides of the aisle are working toward the same thing—maintaining control over the masses. And most of the masses are sleeping.

But they are sleeping in part because they are being manipulated into sleep. Still, there is personal responsibility. And to me, that is the very bottom line. Though we need laws as a race of unevolved beings so we don't destroy each other nonsensically, ultimately each individual must awaken to his or her own truth and self-acceptance (not that which is being told to them), and from that will flow the way the individual treats others.

There is, in addition, the concept that the closer you get to 2D, the more a human would be influenced by predator/prey behavior, feeling safer with "the herd." As a group of entities evolving consciously, there are "elders" "adults" "juvies" "children" and "newborns" in 3D/4D (I don't pretend to know where we actually are along the evolutionary timeline). Staying with the herd, fitting in, and going along with the current would be subconsciously vital to those operating from the predator/prey survival mindset.

[anagogy]

The problem with allowing alt-right ideology like Jordan Peterson,

If you, and others, believe that Jordan Peterson is alt right, it really does prove you have no clue what you're talking about.

"If i don't agree with someone, they are an alt right Nazi." Classic SJW logic.

Also, his actual grasp on philosophy is extremely shallow.

Yeah, because yours is so much better. /rolleyes

I've also spent more than 12 hours studying Jordan Peterson

Woah, a whole 12 hours? << sarcasm

More SJW logic:

[anagogy]

Because I make the basic inherent assumption that people are *intelligent* enough to make rational decisions and they don't need to be babied, coddled, or restricted information because society is afraid it will turn them to the dark side.

If the Confederation thought so, this planet would have already been annexed to the Orion Empire.

Apparently you and I did not read the same Ra material. They allowed that! Information is only restricted by what was called upon.

[ada]

Enslavement, enjoyment of suffering of others, manipulation.. who and what are you promoting exactly Anagogy? And why?

[anagogy]

I'm not promoting that Blossom. I just think silencing people is wrong. I'm in favor of free speech, so people can make up their own minds. A lot of people in this thread are not for free speech, which is utterly service to self in my opinion.

God forbid people are allowed free will. Also, people call anything they don't agree with negative. I'm shocked that people can't see this.

[ada]

You're quite right on that.. there were a lot of name callings on both sides. I notice lately people calling each other "sts" often, which I believe we have no way of judging anyone like that.

[Infinite]

They allowed that! Information is only restricted by what was called upon.

So, why they are battling for millennia? It's not simple. They need balance the situation. And there are many things that Ra didn't say. As for example, about STS aliens operating from the lower astral planes, utilizing astral tech to control mentally many type of groups (including far right movements). There are incarnated people helping to destroy alien bases on astral plane. All that with Confederation supervision. So, there is no total freedom to the operations of Orion.

[Jade]

The problem with allowing alt-right ideology like Jordan Peterson,

If you, and others, believe that Jordan Peterson is alt right, it really does prove you have no clue what you're talking about.

"If i don't agree with someone, they are an alt right Nazi." Classic SJW logic.

Also, his actual grasp on philosophy is extremely shallow.

Yeah, because yours is so much better. /rolleyes

I've also spent more than 12 hours studying Jordan Peterson

Woah, a whole 12 hours? << sarcasm

More SJW logic:

Well, I think you are a great philosopher, and we have been debating together, here, for many years, and I respect your intellect in our discussions. To dismiss me as a person who is not thoughtful about philosophy seems a bit shortsighted, I have over 3,000 posts here talking primarily about philosophy, but I know the MO here is to go for the jugular. This is why I'm sad that you have defaulted to regurgitating some really tired and repetitive rhetoric and tactics. Where are the new ideas? Why did I know the second you entered the thread that you were a big fan of Jordan Peterson?

To be fair, I said, "more than twelve hours as well", which was the number hounsic gave when making a case to defend him. I don't know how many hours I've spent listening to JP or listening to counter arguments of his theories. It's more than a dozen. My point was that I'm not commenting flippantly, and I actually made a lot of points that I thought were well considered, but instead you got upset that I chose to bring up JP to point out the slippery slope of ideology, instead of actually choosing to try to defend any of his ideas.

[anagogy]

This is why I'm sad that you have defaulted to regurgitating some really tired and repetitive rhetoric and tactics.

You mean sort of like how you are doing the exact same thing, misrepresenting centrists like Jordan Peterson as "alt right" or "intro to alt right"?

Where are the new ideas? Why did I know the second you entered the thread that you were a big fan of Jordan Peterson?

Maybe because I'm a fan of common sense?

To be fair, I said, "more than twelve hours as well", which was the number hounsic gave when making a case to defend him. I don't know how many hours I've spent listening to JP or listening to counter arguments of his theories. It's more than a dozen. My point was that I'm not commenting flippantly, and I actually made a lot of points that I thought were well considered, but instead you got upset that I chose to bring up JP to point out the slippery slope of ideology, instead of actually choosing to try to defend any of his ideas.

What idea would you like me to defend? Jordan's idea of feminine chaos? You know that isn't a new idea right? That pops up in a lot of cultures. Especially in kabbalah. It isn't calling feminine "dirty" like you misrepresented. Chaos is also creativity. And why do you think his grasp of philosophy is "shallow" what terms do you think he is misrepresenting? Because I think you are misrepresenting things more than he is.

[Jade]

I guess I would thought maybe you would defend why you think C-16 is an example of the government silencing free speech, when no one has actually be charged with violating it for over 2 years?

Or why Jordan Peterson uses anti-speech laws himself to be litigious?

[anagogy]

I guess I would thought maybe you would defend why you think C-16 is an example of the government silencing free speech, when no one has actually be charged with violating it for over 2 years?

Or why Jordan Peterson use anti-speech laws himself to be litigious?

Well, one would also wonder if no one has been convicted of violating the law, *why* they ever had to pass a compelled speech law in the first place? It is a limitation on rights that any trans person can enact in any argument to try to silence ideological opponents at their convenience just because said opponent didn't want to use made up words invented by psychotic gender theorists who want to coopt the entire english language at the behest of less than 1% of the population. The fact that it hasn't been used yet means nothing. A bullet in an ideological gun hasn't shot someone yet, that's all that means.

[ada]

Even if JP is not what was said he was, Jade's main point was quite valid. Can we please address this? It really feels like we are using dark humor to allow ourselves to laugh and make fun of suffering. Is that how compassion works? Or is that the part of us that enjoys the suffering of others?

[anagogy]

Even if JP is not what was said he was, Jade's main point was quite valid. Can we please address this?

I don't think it was valid at all.

It isn't compassionate to confuse people to reality. Biology isn't a social construct.

[ada]

It can't be right.. we are making dark jokes about nazis,holocaust,rape,racism,9/11,school shootings/genocide, every form of suffering is being made into a laughable meme, how are we allowing ourselves to make it seem ok? like it has no side effect on our thinking? doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering? (im sorry for my poor language it's so difficult for me to say what I want to say right now.)

[anagogy]

It can't be right.. we are making dark jokes about nazis,holocaust,rape,racism,9/11,school shootings/genocide, every form of suffering is being made into a laughable meme, how are we allowing ourselves to make it seem ok? like it has no side effect on our thinking? doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering? (im sorry for my poor language it's so difficult for me to say what I want to say right now.)

I'm not laughing at other peoples suffering. But each to their own. Sometimes comedy is a way of accepting things. From outside this incarnation, all of this is an illusion. I promise, spirit is laughing at our foibles far more than any earth being is.

[Louisabell]

doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering?

In a way, yes. It's the cynicism of the Age and it takes no prisoners.

We are so privy to so much information that is deeply disturbing and traumatic - wars, exploitation, systemic corruption, unthinkable cruelty...

There is not much people can do to stop themselves from fracturing, and so they laugh, because when you're able to dissociate from it, well it can sometimes appear to be one sick joke.

[ada]

I know you are not, but suffering is real, trauma is real, and beyond the illusion too. we all have been enlightened what kinda of trauma a nuclear blast causes. something is wrong, something is really really wrong. we can't keep acting like suffering is a joke.

I really don't know what I'm trying to say, but.. it feels like we are allowing ourselves a certain line of thought, and that line of thought dehumanizes us, makes us lose our compassion.

[anagogy]

I know you are not, but suffering is real, trauma is real, and beyond the illusion too. we all have been enlightened what kinda of trauma a nuclear blast causes. something is wrong, something is really really wrong. we can't keep acting like suffering is a joke.

I guess I see things a little more optimistically than that. I don't think most people are reveling in others suffering.

But sometimes the medicine (truth) that heals the sickness (falsity) doesn't taste good going down the hatch. But a spoonful of sugar (kindness) can help the medicine go down.

In other-words, wisdom and love can coexist (as per this thread title).

[Glow]

I'm not promoting that Blossom. I just think silencing people is wrong. I'm in favor of free speech, so people can make up their own minds. A lot of people in this thread are not for free speech, which is utterly service to self in my opinion.

God forbid people are allowed free will. Also, people call anything they don't agree with negative. I'm shocked that people can't see this.

I hesitate to even join this discussion but if Peterson champions freedom, how is it he believes in and promotes enforced monogamy.
That seems counter to freedom so he isn't really a champion of freedom just his freedom. I really don't want to get into a discussion about him, it took 6 months for my computer to stop suggesting him in searches last time I typed his name, but it seems worth pointing out his own biases toward control.

It's all good I am not going to vilify the guy for having biases. I just do not think he is a great example of someone who is championing freedom. He also did grossly misrepresent the changes that were made to include trans people in the charter of rights.

[anagogy]

I hesitate to even join this discussion but if Peterson champions freedom, how is it he believes in and promotes enforced monogamy.
That seems counter to freedom so he isn't really a champion of freedom just his freedom. I really don't want to get into a discussion about him, it took 6 months for my computer to stop suggesting him in searches last time I typed his name, but it seems worth pointing out his own biases toward control.

It's all good I am not going to vilify the guy for having biases. I just do not think he is a great example of someone who is championing freedom. He also did grossly misrepresent the changes that were made to include trans people in the charter of rights.

See, this is a prime example of what I was talking about before.

Your misunderstanding enforced monogamy, he said "culturally enforced monogamy". Meaning, society promotes monogamy. That's all. Not that you are forced into marriage. A lot of people have been taking a small sound bite of him saying that and taking it completely out of context to ideologically try to silence him.

[unity100]

It can't be right.. we are making dark jokes about nazis,holocaust,rape,racism,9/11,school shootings/genocide, every form of suffering is being made into a laughable meme, how are we allowing ourselves to make it seem ok? like it has no side effect on our thinking? doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering? (im sorry for my poor language it's so difficult for me to say what I want to say right now.)

I'm not laughing at other peoples suffering. But each to their own. Sometimes comedy is a way of accepting things.

You are not. But others are. The real intention of such things are normalizing such things and making them appear lightweight offenses, and if possible, even justifiable.

You and other generations which grew up with the knowledge and education which teaches that such things are unacceptable and inhumane.

But new generations growing up in an environment where such things are made lightweight jokes will have a much lighter perspective about such atrocities. Which prepares the environment for raising sociopaths.

Hitlerjugend was just raised in less than a decade. All you need to raise such a generation is to create an environment like that and take one generation that is currently growing up and start conditioning them in between ages 7 and or at most 12/15. Over 12, it becomes progressively harder. Radical islamists who raise suicide bombers and other radicals also do the same - condition them early.

......

This is exactly like the concept of free unregulated market in capitalism: It doesnt matter whether 90% of the players are decent. 1% to 10% of the players who stop at nothing for their own profit will totally destroy the system and take it over for their benefit.

So it doesnt matter whether you, your social circle, and even a larger group which you belong to are decent people who would not use such things as to normalize atrocities and then use them for creating fascists. The other few percent of the people who would do that, are enough.

[Glow]

I hesitate to even join this discussion but if Peterson champions freedom, how is it he believes in and promotes enforced monogamy.
That seems counter to freedom so he isn't really a champion of freedom just his freedom. I really don't want to get into a discussion about him, it took 6 months for my computer to stop suggesting him in searches last time I typed his name, but it seems worth pointing out his own biases toward control.

It's all good I am not going to vilify the guy for having biases. I just do not think he is a great example of someone who is championing freedom. He also did grossly misrepresent the changes that were made to include trans people in the charter of rights.

See, this is a prime example of what I was talking about before.

Your misunderstanding enforced monogamy, he said "culturally enforced monogamy". Meaning, society promotes monogamy. That's all. Not that you are forced into marriage. A lot of people have been taking a small sound bite of him saying that and taking it completely out of context to ideologically try to silence him.

I haven't taken sound bites I looked into this because it is actually personal to me I know he promotes the idea of the culture using shame to keep to his ideal of monogamy not law still it's promoting a lack of freedom.

Why is his ideal still ok if it infringes on others freedom? I have only been with two people in my life, so not some compulsive nympho or anything but am poly in the regard that I fully love more than one as a life mate. That is I am and always will be in love with two men.

I don't honestly see why this is something he thinks needs to be curtailed, just because it would mean an evolution in society away from our current paradigm of insulated/tribalistic families verse what could be an interconnected infinite grid of people loving who they love and not having to fight loving anyone else they love. Every one supported, no one alone because no one has to chose just one..

I realize most people aren't game for that but I still think it's bizarre he can be used as someone speaking for freedom when one of his largest speaking points is enforcing the current paradigm of his preference. That is an attempt to control, spreading that message to his very loyal followers is an attempt to spread the reach of his preference. Why is his attempt to push a control upon others ok but him trans people not wanting to be harassed is infringement of freedom.

Just doesn't feel very balanced.

[anagogy]

I haven't taken sound bites I looked into this because it is actually personal to me I know he promotes the idea of the culture using shame to keep to his ideal of monogamy not law still it's promoting a lack of freedom.

Except he's not? No one is having their free will taken away.

They can do whatever they want. By the way, it is already this way. Marriage is generally encouraged.

He was asked how to help people who were involuntarily celibate. "Incels".

By the way, I don't necessarily agree with his solution to that, just clarifying Peterson's perspectives because so many people in this thread are misrepresenting his views to support their agenda to discredit him.

Everyone has an axe to grind.

[Relax]

It can't be right.. we are making dark jokes about nazis,holocaust,rape,racism,9/11,school shootings/genocide, every form of suffering is being made into a laughable meme, how are we allowing ourselves to make it seem ok? like it has no side effect on our thinking? doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering? (im sorry for my poor language it's so difficult for me to say what I want to say right now.)

I'm not laughing at other peoples suffering. But each to their own. Sometimes comedy is a way of accepting things.

You are not. But others are. The real intention of such things are normalizing such things and making them appear lightweight offenses, and if possible, even justifiable.

You and other generations which grew up with the knowledge and education which teaches that such things are unacceptable and inhumane.

But new generations growing up in an environment where such things are made lightweight jokes will have a much lighter perspective about such atrocities. Which prepares the environment for raising sociopaths.

Hitlerjugend was just raised in less than a decade. All you need to raise such a generation is to create an environment like that and take one generation that is currently growing up and start conditioning them in between ages 7 and or at most 12/15. Over 12, it becomes progressively harder. Radical islamists who raise suicide bombers and other radicals also do the same - condition them early.

......

This is exactly like the concept of free unregulated market in capitalism: It doesnt matter whether 90% of the players are decent. 1% to 10% of the players who stop at nothing for their own profit will totally destroy the system and take it over for their benefit.

So it doesnt matter whether you, your social circle, and even a larger group which you belong to are decent people who would not use such things as to normalize atrocities and then use them for creating fascists. The other few percent of the people who would do that, are enough.

exactly this - the level of sociopathy in generation z (and millennials) is increasing exponentially - it terrifies me... did anyone on b4 other than Jade watch the video Jade posted? It's basically were I've been coming from for decades... because my father saw Nazi MURDERS - and I studied Nazi Germany in school...

George Santayana-1905 said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

I have a parent who experienced the results of and is still in living memory of ACTUAL NAZISM

You're being radicalised Anagogy. And I don't say that lightly (or with any malice towards you). I say it with deep concern.

And your beliefs are wholesale. Textbook - they're from the playbook of disenfranchised young white male Americans who hate feminism, social justice - are libertarian, angry, experience no triggering (as the world is set up for them) so are irritated by people becoming triggered (ie: alarmed, frightened, feeling threatened - BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SUBJECT TO ACTUAL PAST VIOLENCE) - because you can't relate to triggering because you're at the top of the pyramid/hierarchy (comparatively).

What was your reaction to the video Jade posted?

did you watch it Anagogy?
(nb: I think he may have me on mute) -so if anyone else wants to ask him if he watched it - that could be helpful....

You have had an antipathy to me, Jade and several other members (now left) for our calling attention to your beliefs. FOR YEARS Jade and I and others have been reading your snide, dismissive, rude tone towards us. You are one of the main reasons I have so often left B4th... and when I recently came back you tried to intimidate me by posting an aggressive post trying to "out" me as xyz - "monikers" - it doesn't matter who I was in the past - it's none of your freaking business when you're one of the bullying snide people that were the main reason I've left so often.

And for others here on B4 - see how he's speaking here in this thread? Especially so passive-aggressively to Jade? THIS IS why I've left so often.
Then tried to come back here with fresh energy - but he (and isis) have been obsessed with 'finding me' and harassing me again.

well - not this time.

That video Jade posted - that's what's happening to you

[Minyatur]

It can't be right.. we are making dark jokes about nazis,holocaust,rape,racism,9/11,school shootings/genocide, every form of suffering is being made into a laughable meme, how are we allowing ourselves to make it seem ok? like it has no side effect on our thinking? doesn't it seem like we are losing our compassion into a form of insanity, laughing at other's suffering? (im sorry for my poor language it's so difficult for me to say what I want to say right now.)

I'm not laughing at other peoples suffering. But each to their own. Sometimes comedy is a way of accepting things.

You are not. But others are. The real intention of such things are normalizing such things and making them appear lightweight offenses, and if possible, even justifiable.

You and other generations which grew up with the knowledge and education which teaches that such things are unacceptable and inhumane.

But new generations growing up in an environment where such things are made lightweight jokes will have a much lighter perspective about such atrocities. Which prepares the environment for raising sociopaths.

Hitlerjugend was just raised in less than a decade. All you need to raise such a generation is to create an environment like that and take one generation that is currently growing up and start conditioning them in between ages 7 and or at most 12/15. Over 12, it becomes progressively harder. Radical islamists who raise suicide bombers and other radicals also do the same - condition them early.

......

This is exactly like the concept of free unregulated market in capitalism: It doesnt matter whether 90% of the players are decent. 1% to 10% of the players who stop at nothing for their own profit will totally destroy the system and take it over for their benefit.

So it doesnt matter whether you, your social circle, and even a larger group which you belong to are decent people who would not use such things as to normalize atrocities and then use them for creating fascists. The other few percent of the people who would do that, are enough.

exactly this - the level of sociopathy in generation z (and millennials) is increasing exponentially - it terrifies me... did anyone on b4 other than Jade watch the video Jade posted? It's basically were I've been coming from for decades... because my father saw Nazi MURDERS - and I studied Nazi Germany in school...

George Santayana-1905 said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

I have a parent who experienced the results of and is still in living memory of ACTUAL NAZISM

You're being radicalised Anagogy. And I don't say that lightly (or with any malice towards you). I say it with deep concern.

And your beliefs are wholesale. Textbook - they're from the playbook of disenfranchised young white male Americans who hate feminism, social justice - are libertarian, angry, experience no triggering (as the world is set up for them) so are irritated by people becoming triggered (ie: alarmed, frightened, feeling threatened - BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SUBJECT TO ACTUAL PAST VIOLENCE) - because you can't relate to triggering because you're at the top of the pyramid/hierarchy (comparatively).

What was your reaction to the video Jade posted?

did you watch it Anagogy?
(nb: I think he may have me on mute) -so if anyone else wants to ask him if he watched it - that could be helpful....

You have had an antipathy to me, Jade and several other members (now left) for our calling attention to your beliefs. FOR YEARS Jade and I and others have been reading your snide, dismissive, rude tone towards us. You are one of the main reasons I have so often left B4th... and when I recently came back you tried to intimidate me by posting an aggressive post trying to "out" me as xyz - "monikers" - it doesn't matter who I was in the past - it's none of your freaking business when you're one of the bullying snide people that were the main reason I've left so often.

And for others here on B4 - see how he's speaking here in this thread? Especially so passive-aggressively to Jade? THIS IS why I've left so often.
Then tried to come back here with fresh energy - but he (and isis) have been obsessed with 'finding me' and harassing me again.

well - not this time.

That video Jade posted - that's what's happening to you

He just said each their own comedy and that sadly is free will. You can't pick and decide for others what they like and are drawn to and if a set of people resonates together on something you dislike then that is who they are. Your choice then is about your own heart, where do you want what you feel for them to vibrate?

The part where he said spirits do laugh at us much more than we do at ourselves was missing, but went with that part. I think it is true that outside of incarnation, part of healing is learning to laugh at your own self and that drama that you had. Best would be to attain it while in incarnation. Then again, someone that laughs at another and not at themselves may very well just be blocked, but never lightening past things is heavy and not healing. When people are triggered by this sort of dissociative comedy, I think it resonates the part of them that is emotionally stuck and they resist its elevation.

In the Law of One there is no victim, there is the One with its free will. I think part of moving upward is to quit keeping things separate in your heart and when you reach high enough you see you were truly the center of your own path, others that hurt you answered your need through unconscious resonance and nothing was truly any random. You're even more likely to need to forgive yourself for having had need of someone to be broken and hurt you than you're likely to have grudge, although both fall away. I find this easier to do with the self, because I am able to distill symbolism in the events that happen to me and truly in this you will never see disservice nor random events. Doing this takes a lot of self-awareness and self-honesty but it is there whether you do the conscious realization or not, doing so enables you to see the way things work and become manifest and connect to the underlying truth beneath the ilusion in how everything is interconnected.

I believe what will really heal the world is to believe that all is well and radiate it, because that is the only way to love and forgive, so long you believe things are unwell you can neither love nor forgive and all your actions will be driven by your lower rays. Now this is not a one time thing and instead an on-going process with each thing that you are in relation to.

I get the idea to see it as loving to be triggered, but you say yourself you are triggered because of past experiences that are not related to the people found in this thread. I do not believe it is the self's responsability to avoid touching inadvertedly what is hurt in another and the movement also offers a catalyst that can be used for healing. Will you want to remain stuck emotionally where you are feeling stuck and justify it to be so or will you untie your personal knot?

A lot about the spiritual path requires faith, because it is the ilusion that creates separation and focusing on the ilusion is to entertain it. If you fight oppression with oppression, then you did not make someone mindful of the well being of another and instead are more likely to have reninforced the initial desire to oppress. It's a bit how you assume banning speedforce taught him how to be nicer but have you consisered, given the things he said previously, that he may have seen himself as a martyr silenced for speaking the truth and then may just be even more hardcore the next place he visits? Crucifying him for his cause seems like what will make him more sure of himself.

[hounsic]

Well said Minyatur, your post makes a lot of sense.