Why the hate for wisdom?

[Foha]

I can guarantee from personal experience that if you openly talk of channeling, spirits, Ra material, densities and similar to a medical professional you will be diagnosed with psychosis and sent to the wards even if you try to explain that its your religion.

I should get an indian doctor, they would understand me better.

Right?!? I love this comment so much. If I could I'd upvote it 100 times. Puts a whole new perspective on things. When I was being called all those names and being gaslighted, it never did occur to me that from a certain perspective, those were the people that are seen by society as the mentally ill ones. Now I wonder why I even argued with them!

As someone who suffered from psychotic depression, which included hallucination, I've come to a point where I'm realistic about everything. I'm not prone to beliefs such as demons or whatnot. I still believe in channeling and the higher self, but it's a very drawn back and conservative viewpoint. If one, for example, believed in demons and had auditory hallucinations (what I had), then you'd be the most frightened you could ever be. Because the messages are long, invasive, and extremely negative.

I've largely recovered from this. I don't "hear" the voices that often anymore at that intensity and when I do, it's pretty mild and short. Not long drawn out like before. What's helped me, what's critical to my healing was removing limiting beliefs. That there was demons, ET's or whatever. Once I got rid of these limiting beliefs, those associated voices just disappeared. As if it never existed (and it doesn't). I think what would help a lot of people here is if they returned to the "real world". One where practicality rules the day. Where doing X + Y = Z. These channeling sessions can really hurt you if you cannot process the information. I'm sorry so say that the vast majority cannot and has not.

Wow!
As someone who was (now mis-)diagnosed with schizo-effective disorder, I relate to you even more now.
I never experienced auditory hallucinations, but I was naive in expecting my doctors and psychologists to accept my spiritual experiences as spiritual.

Spiritual stuff doesn't exist, I learned, in the medical field. That is why I went from being diagnosed bipolar to schizo-effective. My out-of-this-world experiences are clearly impossible. I even had many in public, with many many witnesses. The ones that did go to counseling were told what I was told: Definitely mass hysteria. Why? Because they are a scientist and I'm their patient. I seem troubled, and so do those that experienced it and sought counseling -- something so 'obviously impossible' is the same memorable experience many had? Then that memory is false -- or a shared hallucination. That's why.

And of course, I rebelled. I didn't realize that the karmic lessons I was experiencing at the time were due to my persistent refusal to acknowledge miracles as taboo to skeptics.

*edit*: I apologize for reviving dead conversations. I think the 'hip' way of referring to this on other forums is 'necro-posting'. I felt like my earnest lack of fear in facing uncomfortable discussions is something I could lend here. Ironically, I fear instead that I came far too late for my comments to really be relevant.

[anagogy]

For example, this male identifies with being a Filipino woman. I'm going to be honest, despite how "politically incorrect" it is to say this, I think someone like this is severely mentally ill.

The guy sounds very calm and nothing extremist. He even admits that he doesn't think you can actually change your sex or your race, refers to transgenderism as gender dysphoria, that it is a problem and that people making a full transition can't really be happy because if you strive to get so far from where you began are you really happy.

He seems to just say he resonates with those things, like I guess he feels more feminine than masculine and does not really resonate with how he sees the white race and more like how fillipinos are. So I think it's not the best example of a severely ill person.

Perhaps not. But it kind of feels like he is playing a glorified game of pretend. It is almost like he doesn't realize you can appreciate fillipino culture without being a member of that race.

At least he is acknowledging that believing you are a woman/filipino means that you don't magically have female genitalia/or different skin color. And at least he isn't one of those people "identifying" with being a child, therefore, they think it would be "okay" to date a child or something really crazy like that (I read about a case like that a while ago, and it really disturbed me). And at least he is wise enough to realize that surgically altering your body to vaguely resemble the opposite sex is probably indicative that you are running away from something deeply troubling.

I think it is the identifying with another race that weirds me out more than the identifying with the opposite gender. It feels like running away from reality. Like if you're white and you identify with being black, I think you're not really facing reality and accepting yourself. I don't think that is too outlandish to say. I still feel like he is running away from some deeply troubling social psychological issues, but hey I suppose everybody is in some way or another. Some more than others.

[Jade]

I don't think its "dramatic". There are literally people in this thread suggesting we should put new forum members on "probation" until they prove they are worthy to stay here. Or maybe we should enforce that rule about not having a thousand different bring4th accounts (cough).  

This is an example of something that is against the rules and if you see someone with multiple accounts, we do rely on people to speak up. However, isn't silencing a sock puppet also an attack on free speech or deplatforming? Anyway, everyone is welcome to create a new account, we just discourage people from having simultaneous accounts.

When I see people intimating any kind of restriction on free speech, I will happily speak out against it, because I think it is downright service to self. Obviously if there is a personal attack, action is of course warranted.

Cool, I think this is a little black and white, but I can see why you think that way. Most posts we have removed and most people we have moderated in any way were done so because of personal attacks. It's hard to know what posts have been removed if you return to a thread and they are already gone. I'm certain just about every post I removed in this thread contained a personal attack. So what are you actually upset about if you agree with that type of moderation?

But obviously this forum isn't just about discussing green ray. This would be a very boring place if it was. I mean just look at the sheer number of subject categories. That would be absolutely silly trying to cram each and every one of those topics into "discussing green ray".

Honestly, the reason I like this place is because there isn't a TON of moderation. I just hope it stays that way.

I doubt it. We're pretty fed up as mods, just so everyone knows. But we always welcome feedback so you are heard! I'm just trying to be transparent with our intentions. But, there is a line with being too contentious with the mods and disagreeing with the rules, because this is just distracting. Like I said, our rules are actually strict, even if our moderation isn't. It's kind of a bait and switch to say we don't allow people to be disrespectful or post negative philosophies here and then not regulate those types of posters. We all agreed to these rules, even I did as a moderator. It may be hard to believe but I also believe in free speech and no moderation, in most spaces. You might laugh, but I'm actually an anarchist. This space wasn't created by me, I'm just here to follow/enforce the rules, because I love this philosophy but mostly, because I love Gary Bean and I know he thinks moderating this forum is the absolute worst gig in L/L Research, so I'm happy to help with that burden to ease his mind because he works so hard, and if I quit that means someone else has to do it. And while I'm sure everyone else would love to wake up in the morning with threatening PMs full of "f*ck you" like I have in my inbox, I'm just not willing to share this really awesome honor that I just love so much. 

An internet forum, much like everything else, is like a garden. Yes, I literally feel bad when I am outside and I have to pull weeds, which is why I even avoid too much gardening! However, a good gardener doesn't let the weeds choke out the plants that will feed them. I don't mean for the analogy to be harsh, I just see more nuance than "any restriction on free speech is bad!!!" This isn't a free speech zone. It's a service to others forum with a code of conduct. I think I've said this a few times now. I believe that most people who post here are actually cool with that. We have a vision we are trying to cultivate, and this takes some encouragement of direction, and not just letting everyone post absolutely everything they want. It's not like we're calling people's internet providers and showing them the violent threats they are making - that would actually be more akin to what you are accusing us of, and we actually have every right. The internet is wide and vast, and this forum is very small. There are many places where you won't be "silenced" and those are the places to have the discussions that we don't want here.

[kristina]

Putting this out there for the mod team:

I've said this before in pm - now saying it here publicly - moderation is ridiculously lenient... newbies should be put on probation to show they can behave politely and in a civil manner... there should be a questionnaire asked to be read and signed; as well as reading and signing that you expressly agree with the forum guidelines

B4 - for years now has needed some form of 'gatekeeping'... because without it - there's no duty of care.

I don't want probation.....I only wanted to hear others and learn more of the Law of One. I also wanted to see my own distortions and learn from them as well. Isn't that what is taking place here in this thread? Part of learning to balance the self is to see the self in relation to the other self even in the wake of extreme discord. Relaxo. I love you. Please....I don't want probabtion!

[Minyatur]

In the bible I was often puzzled by the firm suggestion to pray in silence, but also to hide the fact we prayed.

About silence, relates to why silence is the gateway in meditation. When you talk you are emptying yourself, but when you are in silence you are in a state of openness to receive. Why you should pray alone I think relates to being fully sincere when you pray, not bound to yellow ray distortions. So, not praying for appearance, not minding everything you say that can be heard and instead to talk to God/Creator like He knows you better than you know your own self. Sincerity is what makes a strong bond.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

The universe has an interesting sense of humor!

The best one out there that I know of!

[kristina]

Jade, your going so far in your attempt to intentionally misunderstand me that its mindboggling, I think its better if I switch over to reading the forums instead of posting now and letting the womyn here calm down. Ill be around

We are all things....you are presenting as male in this incarnation and yet possess all the chemical qualities as female as you have all the same "hormones" that I do as female. The only diff is that you are expressing your male hormones in this incarnation.
It is spelled woman not womyn as in...womb-man. I know, these are semantics, however, this is exactly why people don't engage with you in a manner that may be appealing. This "womyn" is purposely being snarky and highly emotional as you are sort of indicating here. Just stop.

51% means to me:
I do positive, I do negative= a wash 50/50.....
I say positive, I say negative= a wash 50/50
I love, I hate= a wash 50/50
50/50= the sinkhole of indifference

I do positive, I do negative, I do positive= 51%
I love, I hate, I find love once more= 51% ready for graduation

[Relax]

Putting this out there for the mod team:

I've said this before in pm - now saying it here publicly - moderation is ridiculously lenient... newbies should be put on probation to show they can behave politely and in a civil manner... there should be a questionnaire asked to be read and signed; as well as reading and signing that you expressly agree with the forum guidelines

B4 - for years now has needed some form of 'gatekeeping'... because without it - there's no duty of care.

I don't want probation.....I only wanted to hear others and learn more of the Law of One. I also wanted to see my own distortions and learn from them as well. Isn't that what is taking place here in this thread? Part of learning to balance the self is to see the self in relation to the other self even in the wake of extreme discord. Relaxo. I love you. Please....I don't want probabtion!

Glow mentioned it was how a forum she joined went about things... and it came up because we've had a new forum member - only 3 weeks since joining, on b4th shouting in caps at people telling them they're "FULL OF HATE!!" etc and - "oh here's the most hated person (about me)" etc...  and then Cyan joining in saying to me f*** off dirtbag despite me telling him I have cared about him...

nb- womyn is a very old feminist spelling... I'm surprised he knows it...another one is wimmin

Drastic abuse calls for 'drastic' changes - but why would you be put on probation?

You've just read from Jade, the abuse mods receive (in pm's) and how over this they are... they're burnt out - I also knew this from pm's over a long while... and I know Jade has experienced bullying before and since she's been a mod. She's an incredibly patient loving person.

There's a LOT of time consuming work in moderation... reading everything - keeping up with all the threads...

I've had bullying occur to me here under past accounts... and I'm quite hated by at least 2 current members and now from this thread - it's very clear to me that 2 more people hate me... I can handle it these days - but it's been a 'wild ride'... fortunately I've learnt a lot from it all - but several years ago I was very very suicidal and this place hurt me badly

I have friends who want to join b4 but who literally would become too stressed/depressed or hurt by energies/interactions here...

this place can be hostile so much of the time. The other thing I want to say - is that moderation (a feeling of safety) would mean the conversations would increase... this place has dwindled over the years to sometimes so few new posts and just a small few regular 'voices'... so ideas of moderation making people leave are incorrect imo - people leave all the time (or are silent) because of the lack of guidelines for behaviour being enforced.

As you heard - Jade' identifies as an anarchist... I was a anarchist Punk who listened to the Sex Pistols etc in high-school in the 70's - I was one of the people who openly challenged the staid conservative values of the 1950's and then the hippie culture of the 60's... we were intense, we invented moshpits, we had mohawks and pierced faces, and were intensely anti establishment...that was 30-40 years ago... so when I come across as bossy and heavy handed and SJW 'left wing' it's because I was part of a social revolution pre technology that was part of a massive shift that allows you the greater freedom of opinion and expression in the world you live in today... the freedom to think differently...

I'm not saying 'oh I'm so amazing' - I'm saying in 40 years imagine how it will be for the currently younger members on this forum then facing people talking down to you for whatever reason. I remember and lived through a time when I couldn't walk ONE BLOCK down a street without being catcalled, groped or leered at like a piece of meat... where I didn't get jobs I was even over qualified for because a man was ALWAYS preferred - for eg I auditioned for a thrash metal band as lead singer and they chose a guy who could hardly sing (I had opera training as well as metal experience) - but he had long hair and was a male. The list goes on. Just as much as I don't know about your lives - you younger people don't know about mine. I was counter culture before it was a 'thing'. My grandmother was born when there were NO CARS... it was horses people! horses!....

I've lived most of my life without this medium I'm using right here... and telephones were attached to the wall! I did a university degree in sound production in analogue- it's a redundant degree because

DIGITAL NOW

So just as I can't imagine no cars - you can't imagine my life...for eg- it's blown my mind to find out caring about 'social justice' is supposedly a bad thing... that "SJW" is an insult? All I know is that social justice is STO - do unto others as you'd have them do unto you... that's how i was raised

anyway - one of the things- no matter how wild and crazy and anarchist I was - was respectful and kind to older people. I wanted to listen and learn- because i knew one day it would be me - just as the same will be for younger members here.
I also look back on how self focused I was - how emotionally volatile, how melodramatic, and how confused and lost I felt. I hated feeling powerless, I hated my parents saying 'one day you'll understand'. But there are ways in which I now see what a total pain in the ass I was. How ignorant, know-it all and rude- belligerent.

As you get older - you get a wider perspective and you begin to see how very little you know - because there's just so much to know.... I look back at my ideas and I'm like wow yes  - and wow errk... :@

anyway... you can be Punk and polite... and I've learnt not to let people disrespect me.

we teach people how we want to be treated by what we will and won't allow... same for a forum... L/L put those guidelines in place FOR A REASON...

remember we're not running it or doing the hard work...  or keeping the legacy alive

[Merrick]

On a side note, human life is about being Creator living the delusion of not being the One. Is anyone fully well in this lie of separation? Cut off from the Unity of what we really are? Probably not, but Unity is not an end and instead where all separation begins and is signified. Someone that thinks they are a cat isn't much more deluded than someone that thinks they are a separate individual that's not the rest of everything. The material plain describes everything in our reality, from its very first distortion, as illusion. So maybe, just maybe, actually helping someone feel better is not about shattering what they believe but responding to what led them to cling to that thing, like of lack of being accepted in what they feel for example.

This is a very astute philosophical realization and I thank you for it. This morning I received a reminder on the importance of humility and embracing the unity of creation. Doing so has led me to reflect on some of my posts here, and I wish to apologize to speedforce and Cyan for creating more illusion of separation or division. I do not necessarily agree with everything everyone here says, but I want to acknowledge the sacredness of them as part of the one creation and wish them and everyone well.

Ra does speak often of using your discernment, so I do not wish to imply or suggest that we should ignore all disagreements in the relative here and now, but we also should not forget that we are love/light interacting with other manifestations of the same love/light and that there is no need for true enmity either way.

[Diana]

My grandmother was born when there were NO CARS... it was horses people! horses!....

I've lived most of my life without this medium I'm using right here... and telephones were attached to the wall! I did a university degree in sound production in analogue- it's a redundant degree because

DIGITAL NOW

LOL! Thanks for making me laugh.  

So just as I can't imagine no cars - you can't imagine my life...for eg- it's blown my mind to find out caring about 'social justice' is supposedly a bad thing... that "SJW" is an insult? All I know is that social justice is STO - do unto others as you'd have them do unto you... that's how i was raised

anyway - one of the things- no matter how wild and crazy and anarchist I was - was respectful and kind to older people. I wanted to listen and learn- because i knew one day it would be me - just as the same will be for younger members here.
I also look back on how self focused I was - how emotionally volatile, how melodramatic, and how confused and lost I felt. I hated feeling powerless, I hated my parents saying 'one day you'll understand'. But there are ways in which I now see what a total pain in the ass I was. How ignorant, know-it all and rude- belligerent.

As you get older - you get a wider perspective and you begin to see how very little you know - because there's just so much to know.... I look back at my ideas and I'm like wow yes  - and wow errk... :@

anyway... you can be Punk and polite... and I've learnt not to let people disrespect me.

I love your awesome perspective and honesty.

[anagogy]

Honestly, the reason I like this place is because there isn't a TON of moderation. I just hope it stays that way.

I doubt it. We're pretty fed up as mods, just so everyone knows.

I guess I can't say I'm surprised. Free speech is disappearing all over the internet right now. Facebook. Twitter. Youtube. The social justice warriors are conquering free speech in the realm of social media, because they don't understand the repercussions obviously.

It doesn't seem very loving or service to others to me (seems more like avoidance of discussing real issues), but the owners of the website are allowed to do what they want.

Cool, I think this is a little black and white, but I can see why you think that way.

Gotcha, just like how I think your view that this "isn't a free speech zone" is a little black and white. Non allowed speech is whatever you don't agree with. Got it.

And while I'm sure everyone else would love to wake up in the morning with threatening PMs full of "f*ck you" like I have in my inbox, I'm just not willing to share this really awesome honor that I just love so much.

Now who is being dramatic? You know very well I've said *repeatedly* ad nauseum personal attacks are not what I'm referring to.

This is an example of something that is against the rules and if you see someone with multiple accounts, we do rely on people to speak up. However, isn't silencing a sock puppet also an attack on free speech or deplatforming?

Everytime I've spoken up, nobody has ever done anything about it. Also, it isn't deplatforming because they will just create another account. I'd be happy to bring it up in the future when I see it happen. But I doubt anyone would be able to do anything about it, especially if they are using a VPN for both or one of the accounts. It is hard to "prove" in a lot of circumstances, so I doubt that would be even a fruitful course of action. So it probably wouldn't be enforceable. It is an empty threat. Personally I couldn't care less whether people have multiple accounts as long as they admit if they are all the same person. I just find the enforcement of rules a little hypocritical.

But like I said, the owners of this website can do what they want and make it their personal little hydroponics garden in a deep underground protected basement with carefully controlled lighting and growing conditions. Basically an echo chamber, with no diversity of thought whatsoever (the thought police don't like that). This place has been dwindling in active population for quite a while now. It's too bad, but I suppose it was inevitable. I've seen many a forum come and go.

[Merrick]

Free speech is disappearing all over the internet right now. Facebook. Twitter. Youtube. The social justice warriors are conquering free speech in the realm of social media, because they don't understand the repercussions obviously.

Let’s be accurate here. People all over the Internet want to regulate speech, to promote speech they agree with and downplay or deplatform speech they disagree with. This isn’t a “social justice warrior” problem, it’s that Orion and the elites have been doing a great job of keeping us divided. The very term “social justice warrior” is a put down designed to further create divisions.

[ada]

Everytime I've spoken up, nobody has ever done anything about it. Also, it isn't deplatforming because they will just create another account. I'd be happy to bring it up in the future when I see it happen. But I doubt anyone would be able to do anything about it, especially if they are using a VPN for both or one of the accounts. It is hard to "prove" in a lot of circumstances, so I doubt that would be even a fruitful course of action. So it probably wouldn't be enforceable. It is an empty threat. Personally I couldn't care less whether people have multiple accounts as long as they admit if they are all the same person. I just find the enforcement of rules a little hypocritical.

I know I said that I won't participate in this thread, however having brought this discussion I feel responsible to comment as I also did just that.
I admit I was not aware of this rule, and I now can see how much confusion it may do unto others. I apologize for that, and truly wish I'd been told or stopped because at times I would post in the same thread using two accounts, which now seems ludicrous. Thank you for this discussion.

[anagogy]

Let’s be accurate here. People all over the Internet want to regulate speech, to promote speech they agree with and downplay or deplatform speech they disagree with. This isn’t a “social justice warrior” problem, it’s that Orion and the elites have been doing a great job of keeping us divided. The very term “social justice warrior” is a put down designed to further create divisions.

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I certainly don't want to regulate speech. I don't care if someone has a different opinion than me. I just want people to be able to express their opinions even if both people don't agree with it (as long as it isn't a personal  attack). So I don't think it would be accurate to say everyone is looking to regulate speech to what they personally want or anything like that (I don't think you were suggesting that, I just thought it should be said).

I don't like the term "social justice" because if you have to qualify the justice, it isn't real justice. Real justice is blind, and it doesn't care what your skin color or sex is. The social justice movement ONLY cares about what your skin color, sex, and a bunch of other transient physical characteristics are. So I use it to distinguish between real justice and fake justice. I don't see it as a tool for division, I see it as people recognizing it for what is. But I'm sure we won't be able to talk about opinions like that soon, so no one has to worry here. All will be right when the "masters" enforce their "mod powers" to censor anyone who says anything negative about it.

[Jade]

I just find the enforcement of rules a little hypocritical.

That's the whole point I'm trying to make, that we are seeking to be more consistent with enforcement of the rules. In my opinion this means more moderation, not less, because our rules are extensive. This doesn't mean we will start banning people left and right and removing posts all the time, it just means more consistency, which I think everyone is asking for, even you.

If someone gets their account removed from Youtube, or Facebook, or Twitter, yes, this is "deplatforming". There is no replicating Twitter, etc, so when you remove their access to that platform, you are removing a huge swath of their reach. We don't IP ban so, much like deleting a sock puppet, if someone wants to make another account and come back and play a little nicer, they can still use this platform.

Seriously though anagogy, this is a huge strawman, because we've already established that we agree that removing posts that are a personal attack is not "deplatforming". I can only think of two people that I know of who have been banned since I've been moderator, and it was because both of them had an absolute melt down behind the scenes. And as I said before, this extremely archaic "platform" is very easily and freely replicable if you want to create your own offshoot. Heck, if you put a bit of advertising into it, you'd probably create an even further reach than this forum has! It's not fair to hijack someone else's platform - and this was made in Carla's vision. Carla preferred the path of martyrdom/green ray, clearly. I think if her hand was on the ban button she would be extremely less lenient than we are now, because the type of language people get away with using towards each other here is far too extreme. People don't talk like this to each other in real life, and I think she would be shocked if she knew how people talk to each other behind a guise of anonymity on the internet. Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but I think we are too desensitized to being disrespectful towards each other, and our threshold for being disrespected is much higher on the internet. Carla was an old lady who, thank goodness, never really had to be a part of the free speech zone that is the world wide web. I'm under the assumption that Carla would be "on the side" of "SJWs" who seek "political correctness", these of course just being buzz words for "people who stand up to bullies who are mean to people".

[anagogy]

Seriously though anagogy, this is a huge strawman, because we've already established that we agree that removing posts that are a personal attack is not "deplatforming". I can only think of two people that I know of who have been banned since I've been moderator, and it was because both of them had an absolute melt down behind the scenes. And as I said before, this extremely archaic "platform" is very easily and freely replicable if you want to create your own offshoot. Heck, if you put a bit of advertising into it, you'd probably create an even further reach than this forum has! It's not fair to hijack someone else's platform - and this was made in Carla's vision. Carla preferred the path of martyrdom/green ray, clearly. I think if her hand was on the ban button she would be extremely less lenient than we are now, because the type of language people get away with using towards each other here is far too extreme. People don't talk like this to each other in real life, and I think she would be shocked if she knew how people talk to each other behind a guise of anonymity on the internet. Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but I think we are too desensitized to being disrespectful towards each other, and our threshold for being disrespected is much higher on the internet. Carla was an old lady who, thank goodness, never really had to be a part of the free speech zone that is the world wide web. I'm under the assumption that Carla would be "on the side" of "SJWs" who seek "political correctness", these of course just being buzz words for "people who stand up to bullies who are mean to people".

Well obviously I don't agree with your interpretation here, and I don't have the time to create my own forum, so I think that is a bit of silly suggestion. But I understand why you'd want to get rid of me.

I was simply giving my two cents on a place I care about. I don't have the ability to hijack this place, so your concern is unjustified. I think you are making a lot of assumptions about Carla. But it is easy to put words in someones mouth when they aren't around. I see "SJWs" do that a lot as an appeal to authority, rather than logic.

SJW's are the bullies of the new world. Their mentality is: "if you don't agree with me, I will find a way to shut you down." But who needs logic, or free speech, when you have social justice?

[Minyatur]

To echo a bit what I said in another thread. I think the reason activism groups are often labelled as self-righteous is because they don't look at what energies they are investing. If a lot of activists just throw anger, frustration, hate and such at people, then of course they will be seen as self-righteous because those are self-righteous emotions. If instead some activists just share their love and compassion for something, then they won't come out as self-righteous because the emotions they are investing are not self-righteous. Even if it is said to be about something/someone that feels pain, if it turns to anger within yourself then it stopped being about the pain of that other thing and the anger instead seeks to satisfy something that is very much about your own self.

Now I guess we can come to understand why there is so much of these energies around and stop the wheel in understanding them, but that is a lot to ask others and it is much more likely that anger will beget anger and hate will beget hate. If someone is looking for war, that is what they want and they will just make their enemies close unto themselves and take up arms, reinforcing a lack of conscious interconnection although the unconscious interconnection ever remains there.

There is a lot of clues in channeled materials about how to effect positive transformation, I think the part that people dislike the most is that your own power is about how much you are willing to change yourself. You are not here to change the world, but to love it, because that is what enables positive transformation and heals separation. Truly I wish to remind, nothing will be overcome, because the present moment and life is already the answer to existence and the Creator's seeking, it is everything and recognizing it in acceptance is what allows things to fall away and move into something new. So long there is rejection, there is tension that holds separation and reinforces it.

Then again, I don't mean activism does not have its role, but it is folly to shout at a mirror to not see it is there to reflect your own lessons. There won't ever be less than infinity, but you have the honor/duty as a focus to explore what aspects of your own infinity that you want to explore. It seems usually driven by what you have to learn to accept, before you can move toward something new, technically everything will always be there to be found if its what you want to focus upon.



Regarding forum moderation, I won't go in details because I don't really care, I'm here because I've felt I did resonate with being here and the day that ends I will be gone, but I would guess it is as simple as looking at what is the drive behind the choices and what is the goal of the place. If the forum is about being STO and moving toward the green ray, then are policies based on fear and doubt really the way to go to inspire it? I would think not and I think they will instead prevent a lot of potential positive transformation that could occur, but that is my own opinion and not my choice.

[Jade]

Seriously though anagogy, this is a huge strawman, because we've already established that we agree that removing posts that are a personal attack is not "deplatforming". I can only think of two people that I know of who have been banned since I've been moderator, and it was because both of them had an absolute melt down behind the scenes. And as I said before, this extremely archaic "platform" is very easily and freely replicable if you want to create your own offshoot. Heck, if you put a bit of advertising into it, you'd probably create an even further reach than this forum has! It's not fair to hijack someone else's platform - and this was made in Carla's vision. Carla preferred the path of martyrdom/green ray, clearly. I think if her hand was on the ban button she would be extremely less lenient than we are now, because the type of language people get away with using towards each other here is far too extreme. People don't talk like this to each other in real life, and I think she would be shocked if she knew how people talk to each other behind a guise of anonymity on the internet. Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but I think we are too desensitized to being disrespectful towards each other, and our threshold for being disrespected is much higher on the internet. Carla was an old lady who, thank goodness, never really had to be a part of the free speech zone that is the world wide web. I'm under the assumption that Carla would be "on the side" of "SJWs" who seek "political correctness", these of course just being buzz words for "people who stand up to bullies who are mean to people".

Well obviously I don't agree with your interpretation here, and I don't have the time to create my own forum, so I think that is a bit of silly suggestion. But I understand why you'd want to get rid of me.

I was simply giving my two cents on a place I care about. I don't have the ability to hijack this place, so your concern is unjustified. I think you are making a lot of assumptions about Carla. But it is easy to put words in someones mouth when they aren't around. I see "SJWs" do that a lot as an appeal to authority, rather than logic.

SJW's are the bullies of the new world. Their mentality is: "if you don't agree with me, I will find a way to shut you down." But who needs logic, or free speech, when you have social justice?

Do you have examples of where you think Bring4th has deplatformed somebody?

I volunteer my time to do this, so I understand how much work goes into something like that. I'm not 'trying to get rid of you'. I'm offering a secondary solution. Seems easier to start from scratch than to fight what is, especially when it's so easy. I figured since there were so many people who have a different, but shared, ideal of what a Law of One forum should look like, that together you could make easy work of it. But it's true, it takes a significant amount of work, and more than time, it costs quite a bit of emotional energy, as well, because unfortunately, you can never be everything for everyone, you can just do your best to be what you think is helpful for the majority, while being true to the self.

Here is an excerpt from Tilting At Windmills, in Carla's own words, about her viewpoint on Bring4th, from which I made my presumptions:

GARY We resume with the final chapter of the L/L Research story. Carla and Jim, in May, 2008, you crossed paths with Steve Engratt. What happened there?

Carla Well, I had been trying to get an online community going for some time. It had gone through two tries before that; they both failed, and we pulled them offline. I think they exist somewhere in the bowels of old versions of stuff, but we don’t have those versions and as far as I know, they’re gone. So, Steve was a guy that wanted to do a website too, and his vision was very compatible with mine—of it being a place where we could bring together people who were lonely and who wanted to talk freely in a positive atmosphere. So we talked about it with you [Gary] and Jim—for the most part you—and we three sort of cobbled together that original vision for the present incarnation of Bring4th.org. We set what it was that we wanted to do and how we were going to try to do it as far as priorities go. I think the first thing was a forum—set the forums up, and then we set up other fea-tures. We went online bit-by-bit.[1]I was really thrilled with Engratt’s work. He was very positive, and I was very deeply involved in writing at that point. I believe I asked you to find a way to monitor the communications in the forums to make sure that all the postings were respectful and loving and had a good energy to them. So there has always been oversight there. By necessity, being a dinosaur as far as computers and all things computer-ese go, I had to leave the technical aspects in your hands. I’ve been very thrilled with the results through the years. Seems like it’s being of service and that is our goal.

GARY Do you feel that your vision was fulfilled in what we were able to build? It sounds like you’re satisfied with it.

Carla I did feel that my vision was fulfilled because I basically wanted a place where people could go and talk; they certainly can, and they certainly do. I don’t know how many thousands of posts we’ve had on there now, but it’s way up there.

GARY Maybe over 100,000 at this point[2]?

Carla So people are finding good conversations and it has been kept from being ugly. Once somebody starts to be ugly, they’re warned and they go through a fairly long process of being warned and being talked to. Almost every case you can work it out and smooth it out. In some very few cases we had to stop the postings from being available with these people, simply because they are going to be ugly, and we don’t want that energy online. Nowhere on the site do we want anything except loving energy.

GARY Moderating is not often a fun or rewarding task.[3]

Carla No, it’s a tough job. But somebody’s got to do it.

Gary's personal footnote [3]: "Empirically speaking, it is the worst.[font=sans-serif]"[/font]

[anagogy]

Do you have examples of where you think Bring4th has deplatformed somebody?

I'm not so much concerned about total deplatforming (total ban) as I am mods not allowing "politically incorrect" things to be said. If someone is banned, they can just create another account since that isn't something anyone has the power to actually stop.

Hopefully discussions don't actually end up getting pruned in that way, and people are still allowed to express their opinions.

I guess I'll just wait. If it gets too drastic, maybe it will be time for me to take my thoughts elsewhere (much to everyone's relief I'm sure).

[kristina]

Putting this out there for the mod team:

I've said this before in pm - now saying it here publicly - moderation is ridiculously lenient... newbies should be put on probation to show they can behave politely and in a civil manner... there should be a questionnaire asked to be read and signed; as well as reading and signing that you expressly agree with the forum guidelines

B4 - for years now has needed some form of 'gatekeeping'... because without it - there's no duty of care.

I don't want probation.....I only wanted to hear others and learn more of the Law of One. I also wanted to see my own distortions and learn from them as well. Isn't that what is taking place here in this thread? Part of learning to balance the self is to see the self in relation to the other self even in the wake of extreme discord. Relaxo. I love you. Please....I don't want probabtion!

Glow mentioned it was how a forum she joined went about things... and it came up because we've had a new forum member - only 3 weeks since joining, on b4th shouting in caps at people telling them they're "FULL OF HATE!!" etc and - "oh here's the most hated person (about me)" etc...  and then Cyan joining in saying to me f*** off dirtbag despite me telling him I have cared about him...

nb- womyn is a very old feminist spelling... I'm surprised he knows it...another one is wimmin

Drastic abuse calls for 'drastic' changes - but why would you be put on probation?

You've just read from Jade, the abuse mods receive (in pm's) and how over this they are... they're burnt out - I also knew this from pm's over a long while... and I know Jade has experienced bullying before and since she's been a mod. She's an incredibly patient loving person.

There's a LOT of time consuming work in moderation... reading everything - keeping up with all the threads...

I've had bullying occur to me here under past accounts... and I'm quite hated by at least 2 current members and now from this thread - it's very clear to me that 2 more people hate me... I can handle it these days - but it's been a 'wild ride'... fortunately I've learnt a lot from it all - but several years ago I was very very suicidal and this place hurt me badly

I have friends who want to join b4 but who literally would become too stressed/depressed or hurt by energies/interactions here...

this place can be hostile so much of the time. The other thing I want to say - is that moderation (a feeling of safety) would mean the conversations would increase... this place has dwindled over the years to sometimes so few new posts and just a small few regular 'voices'... so ideas of moderation making people leave are incorrect imo - people leave all the time (or are silent) because of the lack of guidelines for behaviour being enforced.

As you heard - Jade' identifies as an anarchist... I was a anarchist Punk who listened to the Sex Pistols etc in high-school in the 70's - I was one of the people who openly challenged the staid conservative values of the 1950's and then the hippie culture of the 60's... we were intense, we invented moshpits, we had mohawks and pierced faces, and were intensely anti establishment...that was 30-40 years ago... so when I come across as bossy and heavy handed and SJW 'left wing' it's because I was part of a social revolution pre technology that was part of a massive shift that allows you the greater freedom of opinion and expression in the world you live in today... the freedom to think differently...

I'm not saying 'oh I'm so amazing' - I'm saying in 40 years imagine how it will be for the currently younger members on this forum then facing people talking down to you for whatever reason. I remember and lived through a time when I couldn't walk ONE BLOCK down a street without being catcalled, groped or leered at like a piece of meat... where I didn't get jobs I was even over qualified for because a man was ALWAYS preferred - for eg I auditioned for a thrash metal band as lead singer and they chose a guy who could hardly sing (I had opera training as well as metal experience) - but he had long hair and was a male. The list goes on. Just as much as I don't know about your lives - you younger people don't know about mine. I was counter culture before it was a 'thing'. My grandmother was born when there were NO CARS... it was horses people! horses!....

I've lived most of my life without this medium I'm using right here... and telephones were attached to the wall! I did a university degree in sound production in analogue- it's a redundant degree because

DIGITAL NOW

So just as I can't imagine no cars - you can't imagine my life...for eg- it's blown my mind to find out caring about 'social justice' is supposedly a bad thing... that "SJW" is an insult? All I know is that social justice is STO - do unto others as you'd have them do unto you... that's how i was raised

anyway - one of the things- no matter how wild and crazy and anarchist I was - was respectful and kind to older people. I wanted to listen and learn- because i knew one day it would be me - just as the same will be for younger members here.
I also look back on how self focused I was - how emotionally volatile, how melodramatic, and how confused and lost I felt. I hated feeling powerless, I hated my parents saying 'one day you'll understand'. But there are ways in which I now see what a total pain in the ass I was. How ignorant, know-it all and rude- belligerent.

As you get older - you get a wider perspective and you begin to see how very little you know - because there's just so much to know.... I look back at my ideas and I'm like wow yes  - and wow errk... :@

anyway... you can be Punk and polite... and I've learnt not to let people disrespect me.

we teach people how we want to be treated by what we will and won't allow... same for a forum... L/L put those guidelines in place FOR A REASON...

remember we're not running it or doing the hard work...  or keeping the legacy alive

I said I don't want probation because I'm new. But I seriously try to respect others while still disagreeing with them.
I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I clearly see that our emotions run with us when it concerns something we feel deeply about. Some can defend it and pull out all the stops when proving how much they love their ideas, ideals and beliefs. I'm not saying this is you.....I am saying that's what I have witnessed. As you know and I too, that emotions can form like snow balls going downhill but there are those of us who can stop, reel it in and those who won't. Humans are delightful until they are faced some of the catalysts that have been presented here and in other threads.
Look, there will be a time that I will not agree with you but I feel as you do, I love you anyway.
As long as this forum is open to the public, it will encounter people who love to stir the pot and then laugh at the results. They will feel like they have really accomplished something. While the rest of us only want to learn from one another both positive and negative aspects of each personality (soul, living soul) that comments. Afterall, isn't that what this forum is for? For the seekers who want to connect and gleen from the more experienced, to be heard and not be ridiculed? BTW, I am sorry someone could hate you. I do not. I could not. Best to ya girl!

[Infinite]

The social justice warriors are conquering free speech in the realm of social media, because they don't understand the repercussions obviously.

Do you identify yourself with the far right? Because only people who have problems with the basic civilizatory values use the term "SJW".

Free speech doesn't means the right of offend people because their choices or appearance. I suggest caution with the term "freedom". Yes, times are changing. It's about green-ray energy. The 4D freedom is the freedom of love.

Or do you defends the right of Orion disseminate their STS philosophy here on Earth through their crusaders and recipients ? If you do, I'll see your thoughts more coerents.

[Glow]

I guess I'll just wait. If it gets too drastic, maybe it will be time for me to take my thoughts elsewhere (much to everyone's relief I'm sure).

No one wants you gone.

[anagogy]

Do you identify yourself with the far right? Because only people who have problems with the basic civilizatory values use the term "SJW".

I'm libertarian. I think people should be able to do what they want as long as they aren't hurting other people. And I have no problem with basic civil values so I disagree with your blanket statement there.

Free speech doesn't means the right of offend people because their choices or appearance. I suggest caution with the term "freedom". Yes, times are changing. It's about green-ray energy. The 4D freedom is the freedom of love.

People taking offense is something nobody can control no matter how many "rules" they put in place to protect people from reality. Every-time we speak we risk offending someone. I refuse to walk on egg shells because of social justice warriors. People don't need safe spaces, they need truth.

Or do you defends the right of Orion disseminate their STS philosophy here on Earth through their crusaders and recipients ? If you do, I'll see your thoughts more coerents.

You're basically asking me if I believe in free will. So yes, I do. They have the free will to disseminate their philosophy and people have the free will to reject it. I think they are mostly working through the social justice warrior movement and most people don't have the eyes to see the suppression occurring world wide because of it. I think it is a mistake to demonize the far right, just as I think it is a mistake to demonize the far left. I think we need to stop thinking in terms of left or right. It is controlled opposition to keep everybody distracted while people inadvertently enslave themselves by free will choices made to enact draconian social control laws that suppress and limit free speech.

[Jade]

I guess I'll just wait. If it gets too drastic, maybe it will be time for me to take my thoughts elsewhere (much to everyone's relief I'm sure).

No one wants you gone.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm not trying to incite a mass exodus. I'm just encouraging branching out if you aren't satisfied with what we have the capacity to provide here. Even someone who loves broccoli doesn't necessarily like to eat broccoli for every meal. Instead of coming to the broccoli farm and being upset there aren't any mushrooms, a solution would be to just start growing some of your own mushrooms in your backyard or find a mushroom farm. Doesn't mean you have to stop eating broccoli! Basically I think certain resentments would be alleviated if there was access to another option. L/L has its hands full so it would have to be a passion project of others to create such a space.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder if STS prefer wisdom over love, and wisdom is light, why do they prefer darkness?

[Infinite]

I think people should be able to do what they want as long as they aren't hurting other people.

So, it's the right of "SJW" acting as "SJW", right? If you wants stop them, so you is trying limit the freedom.

People don't need safe spaces, they need truth.

They need love. It's not about freedom. It's about love. Always the freedom will be a few limited to the benefit of the society. Even Ra said rules and laws are necessary.

They have the free will to disseminate their philosophy and people have the free will to reject it.

That's our difference. I defends the free will too, but I don't want they here. It's like defends the dissemination of nazism. The humanity, despite all STS's action in your history, is in essence STO. So, reject the implementation of STS philosophies is part of STO way.

I think they are mostly working through the social justice warrior movement

OK. I respect your opinion. But this make no any sense.

I think it is a mistake to demonize the far right,

Far right is cleary orange/yellow energies. Here on my country I'm living this. They don't want convivence. They want supress, silent and destroys everyone who are not radicals and don't agree with them. Nazism, fascism, etc. I don't think is possible STO entities agree with this. Love can't born in a society that promotes racism, chauvinism, xenophobia, etc.

just as I think it is a mistake to demonize the far left.

To be coherent, I don't defend the far left because I don't believe catch guns and starts a revolution is the solution. I don't agree with the far left also, even I seeing the left more close of STO philosophy.

draconian social control

I suggest you search about draconian society, discourses and philosophy. You will surprise yourself.

[anagogy]

So, it's the right of "SJW" acting as "SJW", right? If you wants stop them, so you is trying limit the freedom.

I never said they can't be SJW. I just disagree with their view of "justice". I think it is warped and inadvertently STS even though it thinks otherwise.

They need love. It's not about freedom. It's about love. Always the freedom will be a few limited to the benefit of the society. Even Ra said rules and laws are necessary.

All Ra said is that in order for there to be law, freedom must be restricted. They didn't say laws or rules were necessary. The only law that matters is how you treat your fellow man. Do unto others as they would do unto you.

That's our difference. I defends the free will too, but I don't want they here. It's like defends the dissemination of nazism. The humanity, despite all STS's action in your history, is in essence STO. So, reject the implementation of STS philosophies is part of STO way.

You don't need authoritarian censorship to remove that stuff. Simply don't engage with it, don't respond to it. Very few people are interested in that stuff. So the fear of it is unwarranted. Just ignore it. The media tries to instill fear in peoples heads that racists and sexists and nazis are around every corner, nook, and cranny of the world. The truth is they simply aren't. It is a very small minority.

The world is mostly full of positive people. But even positive people will act like jerks in uncomfortable environments. Just like an animal will react savagely when in a painful environment.

OK. I respect your opinion. But this make no any sense.

Just research it. SJW culture is doing nothing but trying to suppress free speech:

Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOZMkBFI-8

Far right is cleary orange/yellow energies. Here on my country I'm living this. They don't want convivence.  They want supress, silent and destroys everyone who are not radicals and don't agree with them. Nazism, fascism, etc. I don't think is possible STO entities agree with this. Love can't born in a society that promotes racism, chauvinism, xenophobia, etc.

I agree in some respects, and maybe the right is different in your country. In my country I find the left far more insidious. But like I said, we need to bring the left and right together, and when you suppress it by censorship all you do is radicalize people further on both the left and right. Honestly, I think the media is by FAR the most DIVISIVE and STS force in the world today. It is the TOOL of the elite STS in our world. The internet has weakened that, but it still has a lot of sway on many minds unfortunately.

To be coherent, I don't defend the far left because I don't believe catch guns and starts a revolution is the solution. I don't agree with the far left also, even I seeing the left more close of STO philosophy.

Like I said, sometimes the left "acts" like it is more on the STO side, but when you actually research the effects of many of their policies, the effect is extremely negatively polarized.

I suggest you search about draconian society, discourses and philosophy. You will surprise yourself.

I have, and it rears it head on the both the left and right of the political divide.

[Jade]

draconian social control laws

Like those that charge women with murder for getting an abortion or having a suspicious miscarriage, even if they are raped? Do you have an example of a law that you know that has passed recently that limits free speech in a "draconian" way? I'm really asking specifically in the US, but I would accept any other examples of where this is happening, because I like to be woke about these things, too, and if it's a real problem, actively denounce it as well.

Personally, I see "deplatforming" as basically akin to an athlete being caught on steroids and then not allowed on the Wheaties box. Character clauses for large corporate sponsorship are as old as corporate sponsorship. The choice for Youtube to deplatform someone is more often a business decision than it is a social decision. They are beholden to their corporate sponsorships, as well. I'm not celebrating this dynamic, I'm just saying this isn't necessarily a new experience focused on targeting a select group. Corporations are constantly promoting all sorts of insidious agendas, I think focusing on one quite small facet can tend toward seeing the trees and missing the forest. And it ends up looking like you're defending a parade of nazis and other crazy racists who are all borderline if not openly genocidal. *

*This was the best article I found that had a compiled list, if you have any examples of others who have been deplatformed for non-nazi-esque reasons, I'd really like to know. Basically all of the people I am aware of who have been deplatformed from large social media conglomerates are on that list, and admittedly I don't keep up on this stuff, hence my ignorance to the problem.

[Merrick]

As a Jewish person living in an area with multiple active white supremacist groups, I can tell you that fascism and the alt right are not some made up media boogeyman.

[Cyan]

As a Jewish person living in an area with multiple active white supremacist groups, I can tell you that fascism and the alt right are not some made up media boogeyman.

As a finnish person living next to a former communist country with many current communist groups seeking to take over former territoy. I can tell you that communism and alt left are not a made up media boogeyman.

Felt I should comment.

[anagogy]

draconian social control laws

Like those that charge women with murder for getting an abortion or having a suspicious miscarriage, even if they are raped? Do you have an example of a law that you know that has passed recently that limits free speech in a "draconian" way? I'm really asking specifically in the US, but I would accept any other examples of where this is happening, because I like to be woke about these things, too, and if it's a real problem, actively denounce it as well.

In the US it is mostly just SJW trying to shame or harass people into submission if they say something they don't like. Like someone will express an opinion, and these *psychopaths* will do everything in their power to get them fired from their job for it. In Canada you have the compelled speech law bill C16 which basically made it illegal to not use made up pronouns, of which there are an infinite variety, for "new genders". But I think this is just the beginning. There are people in the US trying to pass laws for similar things, and then they will keep pushing the envelope once they get their foot in the door. Next you know, it will be illegal to say other words (whatever those end up being). It is a slippery slope, and once we start sliding, free speech will disappear quickly because people in power don't want the "commoners" to have it. It is inconvenient for them.

As a Jewish person living in an area with multiple active white supremacist groups, I can tell you that fascism and the alt right are not some made up media boogeyman.

I never said they didn't exist, I just said they don't represent the majority.