This Logos is an individualized portion of intelligent infinity

[Ali Quadir]

Awesome, Ali! I think we're finally getting someplace.

I am now officially happy

yippeeee!

I agree with all that. Here's a question for you though: Can the shaman experience the perspective of the apple, and the perspective of the apple tree, as well as the perspective of you, and of me, and of the wolf in the forest, and the forest itself, and all other perspectives, all at the same time?

This is a profound question! It reaches deep into the core. And the answer is no.. The shaman cannot be all those things.

But "the essence that was shaman" can become the apple the tree, you and me and the wolf in the forest the forest and all else.. simultaneously. He'll only stop being a shaman he'll then be the collective of those things he could even include his former self but he would then still not still be his former self.

That is the crux of the 'Infinity' debate. I see Infinity as being ALL those things, simultaneously, including ALL, without any reservation or differentiation or limitation.

Thus, the shaman can experience Infinity from different perspectives, infinitely, in all directions, but only Infinity itself is all of that, all the time, simultaneously, and beyond Time.

The shaman shifts from one reality to another, from one perspective to another, even including a glimpse into Timelessness, Infinity itself. But I don't think the shaman can be said to be Infinity, as in, Infinity undifferentiated, undistorted, though the shaman, and all of us, are the essence of Infinity, as in, can access all of Infinity, as Ra indicated (in my understanding). Why? Because you and I still exist as ourselves, while that shaman is out there being a wolf. As along as you and I are here, there is differentiation/distortion.

The difference is in perspective, that of shifting perspectives, vs. all perspectives at the same time. If the shaman was truly Infinity, without distortion, then you and I wouldn't be here to have this conversation. I am not, in this moment, aware of a shaman looking thru my eyes. That doesn't mean he might not do that sometime. But since, at this point in time, I am aware of myself as self, then that means I am something individuated from a shaman who might be experiencing the essence of Oneness or running as a wolf, or whatever. He is accessing the essence of Infinity, but he isn't all of infinity, because I'm still me right now, and I don't feel him. Thus I am a differentiated spark at the moment. Infinity is both me and that shaman, and all else, at the same time and beyond time.

That's almost what I'm saying.. However with one slight change.

If the shaman adopts your perspective, it will still be you looking out through your eyes. This is that "You cannot see what I see because you see what you see" I keep going on about. That's a cosmic truth. Perspective and identity are the same thing. You cannot change the one without changing the other.

So if the shaman decides to look through your eyes, he'd have to become you first. In other words. That shaman can never look through your eyes, he'd stop being the shaman. But his essence is always looking through your eyes. Just like you're looking through his. So as Ra states, inside of everything there is infinity. Inside the shaman is the intelligent infinity, and this is inside of you as well. And that's how these impossible things are done.

So the shaman very much IS infinite intelligence and our personas exist within him. Just like he exists within that infinite intelligence. This is not a contradiction or paradox. Perspective and holograms allow multiple things to be true at the same time. Two people can look at the same hologram and see different things because their perspective is different. The shaman and you are two individualized portions of the logos observing the same hologram in it's totality. Your perspective makes it seem like you're seeing only a specific part. But you cannot see only a specific part and not all else because all is contained within the tiniest.

This is what saints mean when they tell other people that they (those other people) are gods. It's meant literally. Ra also means this quite literally. As literally and matter of factly as we know him to state things.

This is exactly what Blake meant.

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

It's the core teaching of any mystery tradition of past present and I presume future. It's why they're called mystery traditions, no one knew what those hippies were on about... Ironically, even though hardly anyone ever got it upon hearing it most of those traditions held divulging this information to third parties as punishable by death.

Fortunately for me I'm not a member of such a group.

[alchemikey]

nice discussion

i like the way nassim describes things in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjdcwXqD4-U

peace,
mikey

[unity100]

You are my reflection and i am yours, we dance in the light of creation and that my friend is VERY good.

Everyone here is so, We are in all of this together, yet only ONE, we know ourselves more and more as light and as ONE and that is our path.
This reminds me of why free will is so paramount in this. The creator is wise, we as the creator are wise. The variety, rainbows of light, we exist as the rainbow.
We dance the dance of eternity , the forever NOW, Always a new light always a new View but always remain ONE.

And so it goes...

You are a poet, Experience you Beautiful.

except that, what we are doing, ie the 'dance' here is, trying to understand infinity and existence.

'dancing the dance of eternity' is irrelevant in this context. for, for someone to understand infinity and existence, that entity will have to spend effort in understanding infinity and existence.

so, what the people here discussing 'just doing' is, trying to understand infinity and existence.

[AnthroHeart]

I'd give my universe free will, but I would want to determine what the beings looked like, at least in the lower densities. Maybe Logos doesn't care what we look like. Or maybe Logos really does care, hence the human form. It's an intelligence I'll never understand. One day I'll become a Logos myself. Just got to have patience to get there.

[Patrick]

Infinity has always been aware, but for us here in order to make sense of it, we need to use words that implies that there was a sequence. Because it is not possible for us to understand what true simultaneity is within an Eternal present. So we explore that "sequence" in reverse and we glimpse the One Original Thought. Then we think this was the "beginning", because we need a beginning to our sequence in order to understand.

But these two states have always been there. One is Infinity itself and the other is Infinity knowing itself. What we experience is this never ending "process", but we cannot really understand that it is also an ever beginning process.

We are not an aspect that is created to understand this. We are created to appreciate the beauty of it. But we are so confused about our function that we create many troubles for ourselves by trying to be what can understand this as well as being able to appreciate its beauty. If we were that which can understand it, we might not be able to appreciate it.

[IndigoSalvia]

Infinity has always been aware, but for us here in order to make sense of it, we need to use words that implies that there was a sequence. Because it is not possible for us to understand what true simultaneity is within an Eternal present. So we explore that "sequence" in reverse and we glimpse the One Original Thought. Then we think this was the "beginning", because we need a beginning to our sequence in order to understand.

But these two states have always been there. One is Infinity itself and the other is Infinity knowing itself. What we experience is this never ending "process", but we cannot really understand that it is also an ever beginning process.

We are not an aspect that is created to understand this. We are created to appreciate the beauty of it. But we are so confused about our function that we create many troubles for ourselves by trying to be what can understand this as well as being able to appreciate its beauty. If we were that which can understand it, we might not be able to appreciate it.

I've been "playing" with this concept in meditation, dreams, and in waking life quite a bit recently. Images (that convey what you describe) have come to me that have been baffling for my 3D intellect to wrap its hands around. I have faith that the puzzle pieces will come together. 

I agree. It's "comfortable" for my 3D MBS to perceive existence as a cyclical process. But, I am perceiving that it's not cyclical (no distinct beginning or ending) per se; we are in both (or all) states simultaneously. As you put it, we are Infinity (unmanifested, unity, Creator state ...) and Infinity knowing itself (manifested, separated, Creation state ...).   

My 3D nature is predisposed to emphasize (perceive) the separation state in which we are a collection of individual consciousnesses, like cells with cell walls between us existing in an ocean together. There is also a state in which the cell walls dissolve and we are an ocean of being-ness, of infinite energies. We join and un-join as we will: to know Ourself. I find that words do not quite convey what I feel, sense, perceive; they are clumsy for me. And, my perception of simultaneity is fuzzy at best. 

After I accept this concept (in faith because it's fuzzy), questions arise in me: Given this simultaneity, what does this mean for my journey here in 3D? Is there a purpose to know Ourself? If so, what is it? 

Where does this concept of "true simultaneity" lead you?

[Patrick]

...Where does this concept of "true simultaneity" lead you?

I just ignore it. We simply cannot make use of that concept. It's not for us while here.

...what does this mean for my journey here in 3D? Is there a purpose to know Ourself? If so, what is it?...

Knowing yourself is not really your purpose. Rather it is what you are. You ARE the Creator knowing itself. There is no purpose set for you. It's really your choice.

For myself, I have noticed that our main function seems to be more about witnessing how the Creation is beautiful/wonderful. That is why we experience so much contrast. It's our ability to notice that much contrast that also makes us useful in that function.

But the good news is we only need to take a bath in that contrasting pool we call 3d for a little while before we can appreciate the Creation for billions of years afterward. Sometimes we come back for a small refresher.

[Sacred Fool]

For myself, I have noticed that our main function seems to be more about witnessing how the Creation is beautiful/wonderful. That is why we experience so much contrast. It's our ability to notice that much contrast that also makes us useful in that function.

But the good news is we only need to take a bath in that contrasting pool we call 3d for a little while before we can appreciate the Creation for billions of years afterward. Sometimes we come back for a small refresher.

Perhaps there are other vectors of exploration available simultaneously?  For example, perhaps the more we, like gyroscopes, come more in to balance and resonance, the more we are able see through various levels of Creation at the same time, thus enabling us to do work of sorts which we cannot imagine while our eyes are glued to the simple screen showing merely 3D poorly balanced gyrations?  What sort of work might that be?  Hell if I know, but it might be related to that etiolated, finely tuned balancing done in higher densities.

[IndigoSalvia]

I find myself in a position of choice, again and again, after trying to make "sense" of these baffling/delightful ideas. The landscape of the choice shifts beneath my feet. It feels like the words Q'uo said: firm footing in midair.

We know that you shall launch yourself into midair as is the way of faith and that you shall find firm footing in that midair as you allow yourself to remain empty so that you may be filled with those gifts of the spirit which are yours. 
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2009/0922

[MonadicSpectrum]

I view our purpose as seeking to experience the best possible experience as defined by ourselves. But because reality is infinite, we never stop seeking into the unknown to find a better experience but we balance that seeking with appreciating the past best known experience until we are ready to begin our search anew. This cycle between appreciation and exploration happens across the whole scale of consciousness from the smallest quantum particle to the largest galaxy and Universe. We even experience it continuously in our own microcosm we call a lifetime.

For example, someone may spend 10 years learning soccer finding the best soccer experience and then proceeding to spend 5 years to appreciate being skilled at soccer. Eventually, one grows tired of soccer and decides to learn chess, finding the best chess experience, and then appreciating that experience for as long as it is enjoyable. Then, the cycle begins anew.

I've found a good way to model the exploration and appreciation cycle is with the four seasons. In spring, we plan which experiences to experiment with and plant our seeds for exploration into the unknown. In summer, we let all the plants grow in various patterns and experience all kinds of new experiences both good and bad. In fall, we harvest the plants and experiences sorting out the good from the bad. In winter, we stop exploring and just eat and appreciate the goods that we harvested in the fall. When spring comes, we are ready to leave our old harvest behind and begin exploration into the unknown anew using our last harvest to guide our seeds that we plant.

I am looking forward to the harvest on Earth, letting go of the bad experiences, and spending many years appreciating the good experiences that we've learned to create from this cycle on Earth. https://youtu.be/Xy29T7LBM_I

[unity100]

We are not an aspect that is created to understand this. We are created to appreciate the beauty of it. But we are so confused about our function that we create many troubles for ourselves by trying to be what can understand this as well as being able to appreciate its beauty. If we were that which can understand it, we might not be able to appreciate it.

Except we are not created. We are the creators. This entire existence creates itself. Every entity that is present constitute intelligent infinity. So if those who create the very reality don't understand things, intelligent infinity will neither understand anything.

The correct course of action when any window opens for the traveler who seeks to know, is to look through the window. Those who don't look, wont know.