Personal Experience of "Mind Control"

[Aurora Borealis]

With respect to the forum mods, I am a newbie but it doesn't mean I'll take this as it is and i hope to learn with everyone's experience as they share their wisdom with discernment. Maybe it better to take this opportunity to teach us, the newbies of what is and what is not in accordance to the teachings.

I also want to know the story of Ashim as he have a disclaimer notice in his original post that we may discuss and know what morals we can learn from this.

I am also waiting for the continuation of your story Ashim.

[Infinite Unity]

What things you find on your journey, is unique yo your journey, and is a reflection of your own being. If you see it as bring4th as detuned. That is your projection and outcome. I see positive and negative charges/potential rready to go at every step of my journey through Earth. I know that each and every moment on Earth is ripe with potential in either direction the will wishs to propel such things. You in my opinion are way to ingrained in your own beliefs, let go. You are immersed in your own nature all the day long. You as the emperor impregnate the empress and receive thy own sowings. If you domt like the harvest. Then by all means plant new things to harvest. This is one entities story and you all are losing your mind.

[Infinite Unity]

There are a lot of stories on here with people channeling. David Wilcock says he channels Ranot using the trance state... I am not saying they are. I'm just saying ashim isn't the first person to claim such things. We are like fortyish years since the material was channeled. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if people could channel Ra relatively easier. I understand your worry for new people reading such things. But who is anyone to censor what other people are reading? Do you or anyone else here claim to be so wise?!

[Spooner]

I feel your hurt. I think your feelings are understandable. I encourage you to feel firm and secure in your voice and beliefs even when no one supports you. Carla highly admired Jesus and Jesus modeled this steadfastness in his convictions. You can too even with the world against you (or with you at it may turn out; Jesus ended up winning the world's support in the long run).

Kaaron - writing:

Some people on here are LOO nazi's. "The LOO says...", "if Don, Carla and Jim..." blah blah blah.

is disrespectful and arrogant - and if me pointing that out to you makes me "the most arrogant person here" you may want to look at that absence of logic.

I did not wish to be hurtful to you. I wanted to say to you that a forum of people who gave you so much love (to your thread) were being abused by you - and I wanted to wake you up to the unkindness of your words. You were being hurtful and it was your nastiness that I responded to.

But you can't take the same energy back at you?

That's a double standard.

You're not the only person on these forums who struggles with suicidal feelings. I do also. On a daily basis.


I see many people have 'liked' your opinion of me being "arrogant".

Many forum members have 'liked' this:

I'm still low n never asked you to do s*** anyway so don't try to emotionally manipulate me.
I think the most arrogant person here is you and you've proved that over and over SMC.

Don't waste your time trying to tell us all how you're so loving and everyone else is the problem when it's OBVIOUS that it's you with the problem cos it can't be EVERYONE ELSE with the problem when you're the common denominator...

You wanna cast insults and get personal...lets go...I got nothing but time.

well - so be it.

I can not trust this community and have never felt I could - and this is the proof.

Women/girls should not have to continually pacify angry male energy.
It is a submissiveness I cannot 'adopt' so as to be accepted in this community.

B4 changes me  and I don't like that. In my daily life I interact with people with mutual respect. Women and men. And the interactions are positive and loving especially when they're challenging.

I've been enduring my own daily journey of avoiding suicide and don't need what could be a spiritual sanctuary, to be such a harsh place of regular instances of disrespect.

I acknowledge that my energy here has been strongly assertive/defensive.... this is because the 'tone' of so much behaviour here has meant I have never felt I can trust to share who I am - or be vulnerable...

The treatment of me when I'm 'assertive' has been so rude and aggressive it has proved my caution is well founded.
We can see how you, Kaaron - have been far more aggressive in saying "LOO nazis" (etc) and in making such a hurtful reply to me - yet you are getting support from forum members - and I'm not....

this is the proof of what I'm saying.

B4 is de-tuned.

[Infinite Unity]

In my own opinion sounds a lot like the elite type thinking....

Plus magically speaking the most adept on this plane is a neophyte. We are all little newbies... Walking in the moonlight trying to uncover that bursting sun. So in my own opinion bring4th is not detuned. It is beautiful and I love it. There are epic amounts of knowledge found here. And with any third density experience your sure to find personal opinions. The hallmark of third density IMO.
Ashim has been around for some time..I could kinda understand you freaking out I this was some new guy to the forum, by ashim has been here.
Ashim still waiting on that next chapter.

[Infinite Unity]

I feel your hurt. I think your feelings are understandable. I encourage you to feel firm and secure in your voice and beliefs even when no one supports you. Carla highly admired Jesus and Jesus modeled this steadfastness in his convictions. You can too even with the world against you (or with you at it may turn out; Jesus ended up winning the world's support in the long run).

Kaaron - writing:

Some people on here are LOO nazi's. "The LOO says...", "if Don, Carla and Jim..." blah blah blah.

is disrespectful and arrogant - and if me pointing that out to you makes me "the most arrogant person here" you may want to look at that absence of logic.

I did not wish to be hurtful to you. I wanted to say to you that a forum of people who gave you so much love (to your thread) were being abused by you - and I wanted to wake you up to the unkindness of your words. You were being hurtful and it was your nastiness that I responded to.

But you can't take the same energy back at you?

That's a double standard.

You're not the only person on these forums who struggles with suicidal feelings. I do also. On a daily basis.


I see many people have 'liked' your opinion of me being "arrogant".

Many forum members have 'liked' this:

I'm still low n never asked you to do s*** anyway so don't try to emotionally manipulate me.
I think the most arrogant person here is you and you've proved that over and over SMC.

Don't waste your time trying to tell us all how you're so loving and everyone else is the problem when it's OBVIOUS that it's you with the problem cos it can't be EVERYONE ELSE with the problem when you're the common denominator...

You wanna cast insults and get personal...lets go...I got nothing but time.

well - so be it.

I can not trust this community and have never felt I could - and this is the proof.

Women/girls should not have to continually pacify angry male energy.
It is a submissiveness I cannot 'adopt' so as to be accepted in this community.

B4 changes me  and I don't like that. In my daily life I interact with people with mutual respect. Women and men. And the interactions are positive and loving especially when they're challenging.

I've been enduring my own daily journey of avoiding suicide and don't need what could be a spiritual sanctuary, to be such a harsh place of regular instances of disrespect.

I acknowledge that my energy here has been strongly assertive/defensive.... this is because the 'tone' of so much behaviour here has meant I have never felt I can trust to share who I am - or be vulnerable...

The treatment of me when I'm 'assertive' has been so rude and aggressive it has proved my caution is well founded.
We can see how you, Kaaron - have been far more aggressive in saying "LOO nazis" (etc) and in making such a hurtful reply to me - yet you are getting support from forum members - and I'm not....

this is the proof of what I'm saying.

B4 is de-tuned.

Well I know a couple people on here, not naming names, but do not like how SMC seems to think she is the Grand Minister or Guardian of the forums. She is always sticking her nose in on threads and acting as if she was the only one with grand wisdom. Just like this thread there are many threads she has derailed on her ideologies of what is. The op of this thread stated originally this is a story, he does not proclaim it to be absolute truth. Yet here we are with this thread all derailed and off track from her personal ideologies. Whicare find to have, but you can't go around projecting them as if they were the ultimate representation.

[Jade]

Right on, it's very true that we all just see what we want in the elements that Ra presents. I'm just trying to present what Ra has said about things more thoroughly. Your initial post said "Ra didn't say LSD was bad and even said it could be helpful" which is only partially true. There are obvious drawbacks that Ra mentioned were possible, and really what I'm talking about are the manifestations of ill effects experienced by Carla. I mean, if a weakening of the vital energies was the negative entities who planned this experience's plan C, I can only imagine what it might have done to someone who had weaker spiritual energies than Carla, as that was her strength. Apparently a loss in polarity and a negative sexual energy transfer with Jim were the real prizes - three months + of increased illness was just the consolation prize.

For sure, in the context of Carla I can agree with you. However, I would not take that to mean that every experience with LSD ever is manufactured by negative entities, that seems a little far-fetched to me but seems to be the warning you are trying to put forward?

There were both drawbacks and benefits described by Ra and the helpfulness/unhelpfulness of which was conditional to Carla's condition.

Just for curiosity, do you have much personal experience with LSD?

Although perhaps we should continue this in another thread (there probably already is one, I know I've had this discussion before lol).

I think intoxicants are probably one of the most controversial elements in spiritual circles.

I have never taken LSD, and probably wouldn't if offered. My husband has taken enough for the both of us. I've taken shrooms several times, that's my hallucinogen of choice. Got any?

My point was never to advocate against LSD, my point was to be wary about synthetic marijuana chemicals. I was just using the Ra quotes about LSD because they seemed applicable.

I am not against LSD. To me, it seems like you're advocating that people SHOULD use LSD and try to channel Ra - which is the only reason I've been going on with you about this. Why is that? If intoxicants are so controversial, why are you acting like it wouldn't affect anyone if they just took a little LSD and tried to contact entities? Why are you saying things like "Ra never said LSD was bad" when they obviously had warnings about using it (general warnings, not just for Carla)? Why are you saying that Ra never condemns or condones the use of LSD when they clearly state that Carla should not use it?

I'm also not saying that all LSD is from negative entities or anything of the sort. But even when Carla used it for "programming service to others", it was set up by the negative entities because the drawbacks were more substantial than the benefits. My warning being that if an entity is ENCOURAGING you to take SYNTHETIC CHEMICALS to BLOW OPEN YOUR UPPER CHAKRAS, maybe in the context of the Law of One that this should be a red flag, and that maybe the entity doesn't have your best interests in mind and that maybe you shouldn't do it.

Now for the third or fourth time I've inserted this quote in this thread:

That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards.

The healing ability, like all other, what this instrument would call paranormal abilities, is effected by the opening of a pathway or shuttle into intelligent infinity. There are many upon your plane who have a random hole or gateway in their spirit energy field, sometimes created by the ingestion of chemicals such as, what this instrument would call LSD, who are able, randomly and without control, to tap into energy sources. They may or may not be entities who wish to serve. The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer. To others there may appear to be miracles. To the one who has carefully opened the door to intelligent infinity this is ordinary; this is commonplace; this is as it should be. The life experience becomes somewhat transformed and the great work goes on.

I'm not arguing for/against LSD. I'm making statements of caution based upon what the Ra material says about these things. I'd rather take Ra's advice to carefully and consciously work on opening the channel to intelligent infinity. Slower work, but less dangerous.

[Minyatur]

I'm with Jade on shrooms over LSD, go shrooms!

But on a more serious note, this thread should be split with a thread for discussing the thread (link in original post or whatever) so Ashim can have his story be somewhat decently readable. I truly love to derail threads and see them get derailed, but I gotta say this is too much. (for whoever with power that this thought may concern)

@SMC
I'd like to point out that Kaaron post was merely him being considerate of Ashim and that your notion that LOO-nazis was agressive seems like an overreaction in my view, which is why he got so much support. He used that term in the fashion people use the term Grammar-nazis to refer to people who ruin other people's ideas and thoughts over the grammar aspect.

@Jade
In your belief that Ra cannot be channeled. Would you not agree that they created a responsability of receiving calls to themselves through offering the Ra material and that it'd be unlikely that their sole manner of reacting to this would be ignoring every seeker that is reaching to them? Which would basicly be to let any negative entity take up each and every contact seeking them.

[Kaaron]

Kaaron - writing:

Some people on here are LOO nazi's. "The LOO says...", "if Don, Carla and Jim..." blah blah blah.

is disrespectful and arrogant - and if me pointing that out to you makes me "the most arrogant person here" you may want to look at that absence of logic.
I was merely pointing out how people dismiss free thinking and new ideas based off passages or ideas in the Law of One they have taken a certain way. I feel like alot of people assume alot about contact with Ra and the material in general and then cut down anyone who can't prove them wrong letter for letter, using the Law of One.
I didn't say pointing this out in and of itself makes you arrogant. It's more a pattern of ignorance I've observed. You're quite intelligent and this can enable certain behaviors. The particular one I've noticed, is your ability to find a side point and use it to deflect the true aim of a point, in favor of making you look pure of intention or noble.
I did not wish to be hurtful to you. I wanted to say to you that a forum of people who gave you so much love (to your thread) were being abused by you - and I wanted to wake you up to the unkindness of your words. You were being hurtful and it was your nastiness that I responded to.
But you can't take the same energy back at you?

That's a double standard.
I wasn't hurt by your words. To be honest I found them consistent with your level of awareness. I'd say that you'll find I was being honest and the shoe fit. You getting in your feelings elicited my even more direct response.
You're not the only person on these forums who struggles with suicidal feelings. I do also. On a daily basis.


I see many people have 'liked' your opinion of me being "arrogant".

Many forum members have 'liked' this:

I'm still low n never asked you to do s*** anyway so don't try to emotionally manipulate me.
I think the most arrogant person here is you and you've proved that over and over SMC.

Don't waste your time trying to tell us all how you're so loving and everyone else is the problem when it's OBVIOUS that it's you with the problem cos it can't be EVERYONE ELSE with the problem when you're the common denominator...

You wanna cast insults and get personal...lets go...I got nothing but time.

well - so be it.

I can not trust this community and have never felt I could - and this is the proof.

Women/girls should not have to continually pacify angry male energy.
It is a submissiveness I cannot 'adopt' so as to be accepted in this community.

B4 changes me  and I don't like that. In my daily life I interact with people with mutual respect. Women and men. And the interactions are positive and loving especially when they're challenging.

I've been enduring my own daily journey of avoiding suicide and don't need what could be a spiritual sanctuary, to be such a harsh place of regular instances of disrespect.

I acknowledge that my energy here has been strongly assertive/defensive.... this is because the 'tone' of so much behaviour here has meant I have never felt I can trust to share who I am - or be vulnerable...

The treatment of me when I'm 'assertive' has been so rude and aggressive it has proved my caution is well founded.
We can see how you, Kaaron - have been far more aggressive in saying "LOO nazis" (etc) and in making such a hurtful reply to me - yet you are getting support from forum members - and I'm not....

this is the proof of what I'm saying.

B4 is de-tuned.
The only thing you're proving is that you aren't as in the right as you think. You say you acknowledge that your energy here has been aggresive and then in the next sentence say your treatment is in response to You merely being assertive. This is another unconscious behavior. You call your comment "assertive" while I'd call it divisive, knee jerk and unconsidered...Which makes me feel like you don't even give the time of day to my thought...some might say that's arrogant...perspective is a funny thing.
You get back what you put out.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I'm going to poke my nose in and make a few statements...

...

SMC, I applaud you in your honesty...And I wish I could hug you and say everything is going to be okay...  But I ironically understand your frustration with this community, and I personally don't want to see you, or anyone, go.  I left this place once, and am back now because I've found it's really the only place that has a pure and genuine energy of love as I can find on the internet.

So with that in mind, I suggest to you with love.  Please don't go, I think you just come off powerfully and that creates a lot of defense in others and they respond with the same sharpness they perceive in your posts.  I too at first felt that way especially towards your last post, but then I took my advice to you in another thread, and I stepped back and reread what you said without my emotional defense mechanism on RED ALERT.

I think you have a point in mentioning that the Like function does help create a un/popular dichotomy on b4 that is to me a bit...out of place...Sigh, but if it the will of things...  You will personally notice I have not Liked a single post.  I never plan to do so.  I'll post my likeness of a post, otherwise I don't wish to influence others by putting my name at the bottom of a post, I don't want to be part of a ganging up on...I've been there, and it fucking hurts so bad when another joins in to neutralize you.  Have some tears of mine, won't you?  I'm really sorry that you feel the ways you do...

But, I think I might...Maybe see a glimpse of why you have such a strong presence about your posts.  You said you felt suicidal now and then still, and I can't say I see that or feel that from you, but if you're anything like me, those energies are fed by emotions like anger and frustration, and I think you have a lot of frustration.

Not towards b4 or anything, but just in general, just like I have a lot of anger...  And you seem to handle it more calmly than I, because were I you, and I saw Kaaron's reply and all of those likes underneath it, you can bet safely an arm and leg that I'd have been broken by that experience and gave everyone a nice long novel of my hatred.  Instead, you didn't do that, and I admire that about you.

I admire that greatly actually, as someone who's already broke once and flipped my crap at this forum, I'm happy to see you handle such as you did.  I was wrong to think of you like I did in the other thread, but here I want you to know.

I'm sorry for what you've experienced during your time here, and I greatly think your beliefs towards this place now lead you to the encounters you have here, I can't specify what your beliefs are or how your encounters go on here but I want you to know that you're not alone in how you feel...

With that said, if I could make some statements you might not like.  I think Kaaron was touching upon something regards posting habits.  If your physical life doesn't match your online life, then maybe it's all about expression, and people are just mistaking your expressions for something else than what you intended.  I personally find it exponentially easier to express myself online (but I also lack anyone to be deep and honest and profound with), so I find it interesting when I see people who are hampered by the online medium.

All I want to suggest to you, is, well... I feel you have an entirely soft and loving side of expressing your dissatisfaction, won't you speak to us as a guiding mother would a child, with the softness of tone, and not the critical tone?  I know it is rude of me to ask this of you considering the circumstances, but I just want to help you not be received by others in such sad ways, and sadly that can't be asked of others when they all agree with one another, so it falls on you to meet these energies and remain yourself without succumbing to the want to look at them all and point out their faults.  I think you can do this, I think you've the softness and kindness to do so.

I think, you know the pain and suffering, and have the beauty of love such experiences leave in those scarred, and I think you can express that and not have others feel issue with you.  If you don't desire to do so then by all means, but I think your opinions and experiences and feelings are important to be shared, and if you can't share them because of
Others taking you as being rude
OR
You feel you can't be open here
Then we need to do something about this!

I still miss Bluebell, and I'd miss you too.  I don't need to know you or agree with you to miss you and not want you to go.  You're a human being, you come here, like many of us, for the joys of this place, you suffer like any of us, and feel like any of us.  Surely, both sides, the many who agree against you, and you yourself, can find some kind of compromise.

We can call the experiences therein this thread 'catalyst', but reality encroaches from 3D, is this 'catalyst' or are we just using that word to hide behind the conflict that took place in this thread?

I think everyone is in the gray here not completely right or wrong (myself included), and it is somewhat humorous to me to see such a myriad of discussions erupt from a story.  This must be how Jesus felt looking at two religion majors debate over his depicted self in the bible, one screaming at another about how he was loving and a symbol of divine justice, while the other screams back saying he's not white and not loving and not how he appears to be.  The energies of 3D go on and on as two souls who might be best friends in the afterlife accuse one another in their humanity.

If the issue of this material being mistaken as channeled material akin to the Ra Material is so pertinent, why not move this thread into the Treehuggers forum where nonmembers can't read it and current members can view it as Ashim's personal experience and not a supplementary information to tack onto the Ra Material?

I think SMC and Kaaron should apologize to one another and seek forgiveness.  Maybe you both feel you were wronged and in the right, in many ways this is both correct and incorrect, what matters now is the words are said, the deeds done.  What will you both do now?

Will you continue on as you were?  Will you pm one another and resolve this soundly and discuss your issues openly and wholly with one another, leaving out no comment?  Will you just grit your teeth and utter a simple sorry?  Or am I wrong in my assessment and suggestions and will you both turn on me?

I'd be fine being the scapegoat if it means you two can have a common goal and desire to bridge each other to one another and no longer fight...

^^^That's all A of C.

B.  Regards the issues pertaining towards the drug concepts in this thread.  If I could just cut through the fat of the issues and make a resounding statement...

We understand the consequences.

Simple as that.  I'd like to see studies with ratio comparisons of synthetic drug compound users who are fine to those who suffered ill-effects.  I find most studies purposefully leave out vital information such as (this isn't a legit example) how 1 out of 25 people will acquire a mental illness from smoking synthetic weed.  That number would be high to me, but for all I know it's 1 out of 2500 people and vastly lower.

Similarly, I'm no expert on LSD, I have tried again and again to get access to it but it seems the universe is protecting me from it.  Still, I think the consequences aren't understated, but I think the rewards justify the risk for a lot of people.  Hence, again, we understand the consequences.

I believe it is everyone prerogative to do as they will.  Want to try and channel a 6D entity while tripping balls on LSD?  Like, go for it dude, but I wouldn't recommend it, but I won't bar you from it, but again I highly suggest you not try it.

As for synthetics, similar opinion, go for it if you want, but like with ANY SUBSTANCE, please use in moderate and spaced out amounts so the body is not overwhelmed and damaged from the substance.  I doubt anyone smoked a single bowl of spice and lost their mind.  I imagine the major psychotic breaks came majorly from those who used the stuff like cigarettes, 7 joints a day, 5 bowls a day, back to back.

And unless I see a medical study taking into account such things and divulging the commonness of these occurrences, I'd like to potentially manifest reality by believing it is somewhat nearing very rare for a person to, from a few experiences, acquire a severe mental illness from smoking spice or doing a tablet of LSD.

Ironically my only experience with shrooms was highly negative after a positive period.  I spent a nice amount of time (over 10 hours) convulsing in bed and thinking I was being assaulted by a succubus after a couple of hours of a lovingly clean high.

So it's everyone's discernment that is important, you'll typically figure out quickly if something is or is not for you, and in the first times trying a substance, you shouldn't be like me and do that stuff all alone.  If things go bad, you want someone there to take care of you.

These common things should be what is discussed of these drugs, finding ways to minimize the damage, rather than just discussing if the damage is worth considering, because the fact is people are going to do that stuff even if it's not recommended.

Back in prohibition days, the government itself began poisoning bootlegged alcoholic products (which resulted in a lot of deaths by the way, thanks Government!) in an attempt to dissuade their already illegal distribution.  I imagine when people still kept dying the Government scratched it's head wondering why it's brutal method of combating illegal substance consumption was resulting now in more deaths than the substance itself caused.

I see a similar theme in this thread in the discussion of drugs.  I feel like we're looking at the entire subject from a judgmental viewpoint of if drugs are or are not worthy to consider.  Don't poison the substance, don't bar it, make it legal and tax the living ever crap out of it.  And, for real society, stop treating those addicted to such substances as criminals, an addict is not a criminal, not always anyways.

That's B of C, so far I feel like I'm setting myself up for everyone's dissatisfaction to be aimed at me...  I'd rather that than it aimed at each other, I feel I deserve it from my past on this forum anyways, so if your feelings have been redirected at me, thank you, please be angry at me and not the others...

C. Ashim, as for your story.

Damn it man, post moar.

Also, definitely make your disclaimer more specific to the issues you've not been told of so as to dissuade such issues from further arising for you.

I've enjoyed the story, and was...A bit put off to see how right I was at the mixed reception of this story.

Still though, it has given us all a chance to heal, as a community, and without this story to make such a possibility manifest, we wouldn't have the chance now to inwardly look again at ourselves as participants of this community and how we interact with one another, and garnish from those experiences further ways to make future experiences more enjoyable and loving for everyone involved as well as create some healing, most notably towards Smc who I think needs it more than anyone else, because of the suffering she's been loving enough to share openly with us, not because she's wrong or damaged or anything, but because as I see it, she's suffering, and deserves now our love even if she doesn't want it.

I wanted love even as I lashed out at others...Can't we try to give love to someone even if we have issue with their way of being in the present moment?  I wanted love when I assaulted Monica, I wanted love as I insulted Jade.  Love can make us say some pretty strange things, can make us come off much worse than we intended...  I didn't realize how deeply scathing my remarks in the past were until I reread them a year later.

Maybe I'm overstating a potentially seen much wanted and needed response by a majority of the community as being 'mean', I still think when someone is as I was, hurting and responding with those energies at the forefront of their formulation of a post, we should still try to be as the guidelines ask of us, loving.

Sometimes we say mean things, sometimes we overreact, sometimes we go on long journeys of suffering that others cannot see.  I don't think anyone did the wrong thing, I think precisely we have here a ripe chance for positive polarization, offering of forgiveness, extension of love, and acquiring an understanding of each other we might not have been able to appreciate prior to these experiences having occurred.

Let's all try to forgive one another, please?

And I like Min's idea of splitting the thread, could we possibly put the smc/kaaron conflict in the community relationships forum and the jade/aion discussion in the olio or diet and health forum?

AND AGAIN, I don't think we should look to blame anyone as inciting catalyst or being a problem, I think the conflict in this thread is a misunderstanding...And that we should look for the love to be had from this conflict instead of feed it further with explanations or defenses or anything other than the application of love, compassion, forgiveness, and light.

I apologize if I am out of line...  I don't like seeing people fight...

[hounsic]

I love trying to see things from anothers perspective and yours is one I enjoy. Thank you and much love

[Aion]

Right on, it's very true that we all just see what we want in the elements that Ra presents. I'm just trying to present what Ra has said about things more thoroughly. Your initial post said "Ra didn't say LSD was bad and even said it could be helpful" which is only partially true. There are obvious drawbacks that Ra mentioned were possible, and really what I'm talking about are the manifestations of ill effects experienced by Carla. I mean, if a weakening of the vital energies was the negative entities who planned this experience's plan C, I can only imagine what it might have done to someone who had weaker spiritual energies than Carla, as that was her strength. Apparently a loss in polarity and a negative sexual energy transfer with Jim were the real prizes - three months + of increased illness was just the consolation prize.

For sure, in the context of Carla I can agree with you. However, I would not take that to mean that every experience with LSD ever is manufactured by negative entities, that seems a little far-fetched to me but seems to be the warning you are trying to put forward?

There were both drawbacks and benefits described by Ra and the helpfulness/unhelpfulness of which was conditional to Carla's condition.

Just for curiosity, do you have much personal experience with LSD?

Although perhaps we should continue this in another thread (there probably already is one, I know I've had this discussion before lol).

I think intoxicants are probably one of the most controversial elements in spiritual circles.

I have never taken LSD, and probably wouldn't if offered. My husband has taken enough for the both of us. I've taken shrooms several times, that's my hallucinogen of choice. Got any?

My point was never to advocate against LSD, my point was to be wary about synthetic marijuana chemicals. I was just using the Ra quotes about LSD because they seemed applicable.

I am not against LSD. To me, it seems like you're advocating that people SHOULD use LSD and try to channel Ra - which is the only reason I've been going on with you about this. Why is that? If intoxicants are so controversial, why are you acting like it wouldn't affect anyone if they just took a little LSD and tried to contact entities? Why are you saying things like "Ra never said LSD was bad" when they obviously had warnings about using it (general warnings, not just for Carla)? Why are you saying that Ra never condemns or condones the use of LSD when they clearly state that Carla should not use it?

I'm also not saying that all LSD is from negative entities or anything of the sort. But even when Carla used it for "programming service to others", it was set up by the negative entities because the drawbacks were more substantial than the benefits. My warning being that if an entity is ENCOURAGING you to take SYNTHETIC CHEMICALS to BLOW OPEN YOUR UPPER CHAKRAS, maybe in the context of the Law of One that this should be a red flag, and that maybe the entity doesn't have your best interests in mind and that maybe you shouldn't do it.

Now for the third or fourth time I've inserted this quote in this thread:

That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards.

The healing ability, like all other, what this instrument would call paranormal abilities, is effected by the opening of a pathway or shuttle into intelligent infinity. There are many upon your plane who have a random hole or gateway in their spirit energy field, sometimes created by the ingestion of chemicals such as, what this instrument would call LSD, who are able, randomly and without control, to tap into energy sources. They may or may not be entities who wish to serve. The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer. To others there may appear to be miracles. To the one who has carefully opened the door to intelligent infinity this is ordinary; this is commonplace; this is as it should be. The life experience becomes somewhat transformed and the great work goes on.

I'm not arguing for/against LSD. I'm making statements of caution based upon what the Ra material says about these things. I'd rather take Ra's advice to carefully and consciously work on opening the channel to intelligent infinity. Slower work, but less dangerous.

As I said, my only point was towards choice. I think you are making some assumptions about the 'set up' but I've no need to dig in to it with you. I see nothing wrong with your advice, caution is always better, but Ra did NOT say it was 'bad', literally did not, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up as a counterpoint. I agreed that Ra said it was potentially both beneficial and harmful.

I was not advocating for its uses but rather equalizing the warning with some optimism. The existence of the chemical may not be so doom and gloom.

I have not done any psychedelics for quite some time but I have a good handful of LSD trips, I've had a good handful of psilocybin trips and a long, long period of meditation and reflection upon my experiences. I believe that after you have a trip it needs to be 'diffused' through your consciousness so the more you do in a shorter amount of time the more catalyst you will have 'back up', hence the 'speeding up' effect that Ra describes with the adjacent 'slowing down' of the burn out. So I can personally agree that anyone with low vital energy could really mess themselves up in the process, I've seen it, I know people who have 'gona crazy' on psychedelics.

However I have also seen some incredible transformations and people finding release and discovering themselves in a whole new way. I have seen profoundly positive effects from it especially in the way of community. So while I do not advocate its use I do believe that used with the right intention (I will say here that seeking to channel an entity is proooobably not at all the right intention) it can be beneficial.

Part of me just really wonders what that session would have been like if they had started trying to channel Ra while Carla was still peaking and full of energy rather than at the end during the burnout as it seems suggested in the session. However, ultimately I think the scenario is a 'catalyst' and as such is a lesson of warning in and of itself.

However, I think everything in life comes with some warnings and even something as natural as going out for a walk in the wilderness can be very dangerous to some if they don't know what they are doing. The same is true for most of life's experiences I have found.

So, the warnings and caution are good, as these things should not be approached lightly as they can have very real and lasting effects. In the context of channeling I would never, ever use it personally, not any psychedelics for that matter. In that regard you can say I definitely agree, however the use with different and I believe more personally focused intentions is a wiser way to approach in the event someone feels compelled to try.

If you are giving words of warning and advice to the people who have not tried or are inexperienced then you can see I am giving words to those who are probably already intending to try it anyways. Rather than to discourage those who might also seek some interest in that field I would rather give cautions in the event of use rather than merely advocating abstinence. I see us both as trying to be sensible around a fickle subject.

[Aion]

All that said, I think the narratives of our lives are bigger than just the facts of the perspective of events, so I think the sharing of our story for good or for ill is one of the most genuine services someone can provide.

[Aion]

Oh, and I guess to the point of the synthetic cannabis, I'm an all natural guy and have never nor ever desire to try synthetic cannibanoids and I have seen some people get messed up by them, but as you say the biggest danger being how very little is actually known about them which is unlike LSD or mushrooms which have been experimented with for decades (albeit not really scientifically).

That being said, I won't draw judgement on the use of it but rather as I have said I look to the story and narrative to instead see the relationships that appear and the archetypes that present themselves.

Ashim strikes me as someone who has maybe been around the block a bit and like anyone talking about experiences in the past I think it can be well considered that he has likely grown and developed since those experiences. Wisdom is gained through many experiences, not always rational.

[Ashim]

Family life was becoming difficult, conversation between myself and my wife more robotic and beginning to turn from a simple lack of  mutual empathy to bouts of outright hostility. I was not fulfilling my role, in her eyes, as breadwinner for the family. She had long attributed my increasing withdrawal  from everyday life to depression, caused by the loss of my business several years ago, but although this had been somewhat of a factor in the past this was not the true reason for my aloofness. I was leading a double life. Despite my wife’s nominal interest in things paranormal it was no longer possible to discuss or even attempt to explain what was happening to me. Any attempt was met by a lack of empathy and a painful reminder of the bills we had to pay and the fact that I was, in her eyes and in those of her family, especially her father, a total loser. He was without doubt the most negative person I had ever encountered in my whole life. If it was a gorgeous sunny day he would be depressed and miserable because bad weather was surely on its way. A man whose sole enjoyment in life was predicting bad news and then being proven right. Since our most recent confrontation at Sunday lunch, where, fueled by red wine and an awful mood, he accused me of being a useless drug addict, I had become his public enemy number one and all channels of communication had been closed. I had replaced the incumbent "worst person on the planet", the guy who lived on the top floor of the flat, who gained this position of such aggravated contempt by making the fatal mistake of depositing a few pieces of his garbage in my father-in-law’s rubbish bin.

My wife and I had no meaningful intimate relations and had not had sex for years. She was never interested, whilst at the same time I could have made the Olympic team for horniness. It was unbearable. I had such a pent up reserve of sexual energy but would not for a moment consider an act of unfaithfulness. I had my principles and this one I was not about to break. I slipped further and further into fantasy worlds with blue skinned alien girls and cosmic teenage orgies.
The channeling however was becoming a more natural and comfortable exercise. I had long accepted the fact that for every positive contact there would be a negative and that actively attempting to block those of negative polarity was an act motivated by fear. When you can overcome fear to a certain extent then you are able to learn and I knew that true wisdom could only be reached by balancing, or  working off this electrical charge. I had become proficient in entering the trance state and could keep the reactive mind silent for increasingly longer periods. I was aware that I should be truly thankful for the efforts of the negative and that through their work I would be able to grow as a spiritual being, but I was, at this stage not able to feel the affection that I thought I ought to have for them. I cleansed and charged my crystals, performed my rituals and became more and more the magic personality that I remembered from my times in Atlantis and Lemuria. 

I became interested in the plight of groups that had developed technologically but not spiritually and made contact with beings who claimed to hail from the Zeta Reticuli system. You may know them as the “greys”. I initially was somewhat fearful of their energies, not to mention their appearance but sensed a willingness to communicate openly and honestly. Likewise I believe they respected my bravery and genuine concern about their existence. They are approaching the end of a path that has seen the evolution of a technically advanced but spiritually weary societal group. I asked them about the abductions and if these were carried out without consent of the abductees. They said no, this was not possible; however humans could be tricked into these scenarios by their own free will. There was a difference, albeit one that was akin to a sleight of hand.  The also explained that there had been negotiations with incarnate humans who had consented to parenting Zetan children. Despite the majority of the social group being of the negative polarity the elders with whom I had made contact had realized that the only conceivable way of averting their  extinction  was a leap of faith in a, for them, totally unexpected direction.

That evening I found myself in trance marveling at a sky full of stars. The brightest of the stars began to descend,  slowly  taking the shape of a jeweled Chrysanthemum. As it approached me, seemingly only a few hundred feet overhead I felt almost overwhelmed as I stared at what I now recognized as being the Mothership from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. It was the Zetans and they were teleporting me on board!
I found myself in what appeared to be a laboratory, lying face up on a flat table. There were several of them in the well illuminated white room. I could sense the presence of the hosts but could not see them. The other operating tables seemed to be empty. I was to be the only guest that night.
Then there was a telepathic communication. My reason for being there was twofold; firstly I was to receive an implant. This would improve my ability for “on demand” telepathic contact with both the Zetans and “machines”.  Secondly I was to be shown how to create “bodies”. I would find this very helpful in respect to completing my mission.  The next thing I remember  was a series of tones, like a bunch of sine waves. I felt in that moment like a snake shedding its skin. There was a pulse, a wave of energy and suddenly I had left the table and was “stuck “to the ceiling of their spacecraft.


"Aha", I recall thinking, “ they just raised my frequency. “


To be continued...
 
 
 

[Jade]

@Jade
In your belief that Ra cannot be channeled. Would you not agree that they created a responsability of receiving calls to themselves through offering the Ra material and that it'd be unlikely that their sole manner of reacting to this would be ignoring every seeker that is reaching to them? Which would basicly be to let any negative entity take up each and every contact seeking them.

Let me clarify since it seems my original intent has been somewhat distorted. It is that I do not think it is likely that someone can -solo channel- Ra. The Ra contact was a highly magical and special circumstance, and I respect that. Ra themselves, very early on, warn that they are a "narrowband" contact and any deviation from philosophical commentary would deteriorate that contact. They also mention that the instrument is anomalous in her wiring as a preincarnative condition to receiving the contact, and that it was the harmony of the group that was the main requirement to receiving the contact in an ongoing fashion.

I think it's one thing to contact Ra, to talk to Ra, to meditate with Ra, what have you. I think another thing all together happens when one sits down and says, "I want to channel Ra." and begins to record that contact to offer as guidance for themselves or others. I think firstly, you must really understand and know how to challenge entities to begin to do something like that. Secondly, you have to be aware enough to not ask questions that would detune a "narrowband" contact. It doesn't matter if you start out with Ra, if you ask the wrong questions, someone else will happily, quickly, and seamlessly step in to be "Ra". This is why a group is "safer" - you keep each other in check.

Not to mention, Carla only conscious channeled Ra once. Ra preferred the trance channel, which removes the ego. There are lots of Confederation entities that encourage people to try to channel them (in a group setting, however! - Aaron made this point earlier. It's clear in Confederation teachings that it is the calling of a group that allows a positive entity to make contact.) But conscious channel Latwii, Hatonn, those guys, all you want - I don't think the risk is near as great. Of course, that is because conscious channeling leaves the ego involved - which is the main reason people prefer Ra. But, you can't have your cake and eat it too - you can't conscious channel Ra and expect it to be of the same level as the trance channeling.

My point is that the risk to conscious channeling Ra by oneself seems, to me, to be far too great to ever attempt. There are other entities. If I want Ra's words, I go and reread the Law of One - trust me, every single time reading it has been a new experience for me, a new conversation with Ra. And it's especially the fact that people are -so attached- to the entity named "Ra" makes channeling "Ra" even MORE dangerous. I also am pretty sure most conscious L/L channeling sessions don't involve calling upon a specific entity - Carla says that at some point, she began always requesting "The best and highest contact available" which is when Q'uo became the constant. But before that, whatever entity most fit the dynamics of the group that particular day was the one who arrived to speak.

I just believe that if anyone wants to channel based on being inspired by the Ra material, that in the very least they should read Carla's A Channeling Handbook and apply the lessons she has learned after doing this for decades. Most people who solo channel Ra don't even take that step. This is why I'm wary. I don't think it's impossible, or that a contact will always be compromised. But for the fact that even the group's contact was compromised at times - I don't know if a single person would be able to handle doing such a thing on their own. I'm not putting them on a pedestal. I'm just saying there is only this group's experience of ever channeling Ra, and it took a lot of trial and error, so I would think that if one wants to duplicate the contact that they should at least apply the lessons of the only people who have ever done it.

Ra also says they searched a long time for a group that would be able to sustain their contact, and that was Carla, Don, and Jim.

71.21 Questioner: When you say you searched for this group what do you mean? What was your process of search? I ask this question to understand more the illusion of time and space.

Ra: I am Ra. Consider the process of one who sees the spectrograph of some complex of elements. It is a complex paint sample, let us say for ease of description. We of Ra knew the needed elements for communication which had any chance of enduring. We compared our color chip to many individuals and groups over a long span of your time. Your spectrograph matches our sample.

In response to your desire to see the relationship betwixt space/time and time/space, may we say that we conducted this search in time/space, for in this illusion one may quite readily see entities as vibratory complexes and groups as harmonics within vibratory complexes.

So, in short, no, I don't think just anyone can up and channel Ra if they ask. But I again don't think every single contact will necessarily be compromised - Ra even says in the above quote that they searched for "individuals" who would be able to do this. But, I think most motives that someone would have to channel Ra right now would be compromised in general - not quite the purity of Carla's desire to potentially, truly die because this was the only thing that ever made Don happy. I believe if Ra were to 'pick' another individual/group to be their receiver, that it would be a "surprise", much like Carla/Don endured. And who knows, they might not even call themselves Ra next time!

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

So, in short, no, I don't think just anyone can up and channel Ra if they ask. But I again don't think every single contact will necessarily be compromised - Ra even says in the above quote that they searched for "individuals" who would be able to do this. But, I think most motives that someone would have to channel Ra right now would be compromised in general - not quite the purity of Carla's desire to potentially, truly die because this was the only thing that ever made Don happy. I believe if Ra were to 'pick' another individual/group to be their receiver, that it would be a "surprise", much like Carla/Don endured. And who knows, they might not even call themselves Ra next time!

I think the time frame of the contact was important regards incoming 4D energies making a more permeable 3D to channel in to, and also Ra doesn't say during their time of searching for a group that they weren't already in contact with others.  Just because Don and friends published the contact shouldn't immediately allow those in it's possession to write off every other attempt using that published material as the basis.  That doesn't mean I personally think Ashim talked to 'the Ra', but that is fairly obviously discernible from the instant 'Ra's' dialogue is read in his story.

Jade, for all we know, Ra has been in contact continually with others who have not wanted to publish the information, maybe because they knew the contact, and Ra picked them because they knew that the contact wasn't as pure in any sense, or perhaps, because of that purity they keep it to themselves to share with those they feel can handle it.  Remember, for Ra it only takes 1 for their mission to be fulfilled.  If one person can raise their vibrations, the duty they've undertaken is fulfilled.  I doubt they'd restrain themselves to ONLY Don, Carla, and Jim for such a task.

We don't know.  And I don't think it's a good idea to push the idea that no one can channel Ra because the same configurations aren't available.  I like the idea that no one can sustain a prolonged contact with them without the group configuration without inviting extreme distortions upon themselves (since a smc is a lot of energy to channel through a single entity rather than a group).  But for all we know, one day a group of friends are going to come to L/L or B4, and they're going to be prime candidates for another Ra contact and they're going to feel it and try it, they may even accidentally begin the process while trying to channel other sources.  We don't know where the road leads or what the future holds.  Please don't dissuade them.  I enjoy your encouragement but I think a strong caution rather than a partial denial of the possibility is better.  We shouldn't dissuade those who want to seek such things, but that doesn't mean we can't warn them of the improbability and dangers of a 'true-Ra' contact.

Ra isn't out of reach, and I personally believe they get a bit closer the more we transition into 4D.  I'm sure they keep an eye over this group (and maybe even this community) awaiting another chance to speak to us all.  For all we know, the higher self of other Ra wanderers is going to one day sync them into this community, and sync them for 'The Ra Material Continued'.

I personally hope and believe such a day will come, that the 3D/4D Earth brothers that follow their material won't be met with permanent silence.

Just because the first seeking seemed 'pure' by it's accidental initiation, doesn't mean that purity is no longer possible.  For all we know, the knowledge of the contact will one day produce an even purer seeking.  I would personally take on the role of the instrument if I ever had the opportunity and training to do so.  That'd be a service I'd lay my life down for even, that information is serious stuff to me.  It helped me more than anything else despite all I've gone through after discovering it and I feel it can help the world, and that is literally all I ever wanted to do.

I don't think it's fair to those with that desire to tell them it won't be possible.

My biggest concern, what does L/L and their copyrighted Ra Material do if another organization produces a different Ra Material that is just as pure?  Are they going to sue for the rights to that material?  Are they going to conglomerate with the other organization?

I don't want to believe the material aspects of gains brought from the Ra Material have painted a bias of encouraging others in and associated with L/L to not seek the same, but it ultimately comes down to how those at L/L spontaneously go about handling such things.  So far I have never seen anyone from L/L encourage another group to try and connect to Ra through the same careful considerations.  Not sure if that's an accurate reflection of the reality surrounding them but I'm not going to judge, just pointing out something I noticed.

Is anyone to say another pure contact isn't possible because of the prior one?  Let's keep the road open for potential future people who make a serious prolonged effort, and not shut them down in the pre-initialization stage

[Agua del Cielo]

@CA
I hold another, purecontact entirely possible!
Why not?

@all
However, i think some humbleness and some honest self-evaluation might also be a good idea.
The ego can be a tricky one, and i feel this has not (edited to include the missing "not") been taken into account sufficiently.

Just look at the forum. Even the thread titles can give an idea of what i mean.
I have to stress the factthat i include myself here.

Look at how many threads deal with indigo ray, higher densities, intelligent infinity and so on.
Look how few threads deal with how do i process catalyst?, how do i balance my lower chakras, how do i get firmly rooted in this very planet.
Look at how many threads and posts contain abstract discussion, theories and intellectual stuff.
Look at how few threads actually contain a person openheartedly showing its "interior".

I feel, there is a very very strong refusal to deal with "lower" issues, a strong denial of many of the problems that reside in the lower chakras, and also a denial which state of evolution we are at.

Sometimes all the inntellectualization is even referred to as "path of wisdom", as if we were at the same stage as 5d beings. To the oppositei think we are mostly at the same place just as "3d natives", unwilling or unable to face our shadow self, our unpleasant emotions and all that stuff.

Inthese lower chakra issues lies the very foundation of the ego.
Our refusal to deal with this is what makes it difficult, not that there are ego-facets,no, its thefactthatwe are blind to them.
And so they control us, color every tiny bit we experience and we dont even know.

While this is just the way it is for humans and is perfectly acceptable, it should betaken into account when trying to put channeled material of a "pure vibration" out!!

Just think of some of these questions:
Am i making this completely up because itgives myself more "spiritual relevance"?
Am i receiving a message from my "inner planes" and distortingit for some reason, pretending it was a more "famous" entity?
Am i distorting the material due to my own limitations (and just imagine how vastly big the limitations are if you not yet unblocked and balanced your lowerchakras are)?

Also, imagine Ra explaining the illusory nature of time to a "normal" spiritually uninterested human being. Can you imagine how utterly distorted the result will be?
Do youthink we are "less limited"?
I think we are justas limited, we justcannot see the areas where our understanding is so greatly limited!

And i dont think earth moving into 4d changed so much, i think we can only, if at all, slightly grasp what 6d might be like.
I think even 4d would be be a big big challenge, ifatall comprehensible.
I believe all the talk we have about higher densities are not really about higher densities but moreso about our concept and imagination of it, which,inmy opinion, is something ENTIRELY different.


Sorry, if this is actually off topic, butit seems the whole thread off topic anyway
And i apologize for the rudeness that might be contained in my post.
There is no offense intended, but more a wish to open our eyes instead of over-estimating us constantly.


Edit:

This was not aimed at Ashim, but to the whole subject of channeling generally

I want to point out, that we as wanderers are in the EXACT same position as "natives". We are not "better" and we are absolutely not at all "evolved higher"
We might originate in higher densities. But the consciousness as well as the issues we re dealing with are EXACTLY the same.
We have some memory and connection of what it "was" like, back in the good ol' times when we were still 4/5/6d, and that is what powers our seeking.
But on the other hand our refusal to deal with certain issues is even greater than for the acerage human being for the same reason.
In fact, except we have done lots of serious work in consciousness or healing, we are probably for the most part LESS evolved than the average human.
Not sure if this makes sense to you, but i think this is important!

[smc]

THIS  

@CA
I hold another, purecontact entirely possible!
Why not?

@all
However, i think some humbleness and some honest self-evaluation might also be a good idea.
The ego can be a tricky one, and i feel this has been taken into account sufficiently.

Just look at the forum. Even the thread titles can give an idea of what i mean.
I have to stress the factthat i include myself here.

Look at how many threads deal with indigo ray, higher densities, intelligent infinity and so on.
Look how few threads deal with how do i process catalyst?, how do i balance my lower chakras, how do i get firmly rooted in this very planet.
Look at how many threads and posts contain abstract discussion, theories and intellectual stuff.
Look at how few threads actually contain a person openheartedly showing its "interior".

I feel, there is a very very strong refusal to deal with "lower" issues, a strong denial of many of the problems that reside in the lower chakras, and also a denial which state of evolution we are at.

Sometimes all the inntellectualization is even referred to as "path of wisdom", as if we were at the same stage as 5d beings. To the oppositei think we are mostly at the same place just as "3d natives", unwilling or unable to face our shadow self, our unpleasant emotions and all that stuff.

Inthese lower chakra issues lies the very foundation of the ego.
Our refusal to deal with this is what makes it difficult, not that there are ego-facets,no, its thefactthatwe are blind to them.
And so they control us, color every tiny bit we experience and we dont even know.

While this is just the way it is for humans and is perfectly acceptable, it should betaken into account when trying to put channeled material of a "pure vibration" out!!

Just think of some of these questions:
Am i making this completely up because itgives myself more "spiritual relevance"?
Am i receiving a message from my "inner planes" and distortingit for some reason, pretending it was a more "famous" entity?
Am i distorting the material due to my own limitations (and just imagine how vastly big the limitations are if you not yet unblocked and balanced your lowerchakras are)?

Also, imagine Ra explaining the illusory nature of  time to a "normal" spiritually uninterested human being. Can you imagine how utterly distorted the result will be?
Do youthink we are "less limited"?
I think we are justas limited, we justcannot see the areas where our understanding is so greatly limited!

And i dont think earth moving into 4d changed so much, i think we can only, if at all, slightly grasp what 6d might be like.
I think even 4d would be be a big big challenge, ifatall comprehensible.
I believe all the talk we have about higher densities are not really about higher densities but moreso about our concept and imagination of it, which,inmy opinion, is something ENTIRELY different.


Sorry, if this is actually off topic, butit seems the whole thread off topic anyway
And i apologize for the rudeness that might be contained in my post.
There is no offense intended, but more a wish to open our eyes instead of over-estimating us constantly.


Edit:

This was not aimed at Ashim, but to the whole subject of channeling generally

I want to point out, that we as wanderers are in the EXACT same position as "natives". We are not "better" and we are absolutely not at all "evolved higher"
We might originate in higher densities. But the consciousness as well as the issues we re dealing with are EXACTLY the same.
We have some memory and connection of what it "was" like, back in the good ol' times when we were still 4/5/6d, and that is what powers our seeking.
But on the other hand our refusal to deal with certain issues is even greater than for the acerage human being for the same reason.
In fact, except we have done lots of serious work in consciousness or healing, we are probably for the most part LESS evolved than the average human.
Not sure if this makes sense to you, but i think this is important!

[Jade]

I don't think it's fair to those with that desire to tell them it won't be possible.

...

Is anyone to say another pure contact isn't possible because of the prior one?  Let's keep the road open for potential future people who make a serious prolonged effort, and not shut them down in the pre-initialization stage

Hi C_A, I definitely don't want to beat a dead horse, but I want to clarify (again) that I have not once said that I don't believe another Ra contact is possible. Just that I'm skeptical of most I've seen (which is barely any) for a variety of reasons, rooted in my understanding of the LOO and L/L's practices involved with maintaining the contact.

My biggest concern, what does L/L and their copyrighted Ra Material do if another organization produces a different Ra Material that is just as pure?  Are they going to sue for the rights to that material?  Are they going to conglomerate with the other organization?

I don't want to believe the material aspects of gains brought from the Ra Material have painted a bias of encouraging others in and associated with L/L to not seek the same, but it ultimately comes down to how those at L/L spontaneously go about handling such things.  So far I have never seen anyone from L/L encourage another group to try and connect to Ra through the same careful considerations.  Not sure if that's an accurate reflection of the reality surrounding them but I'm not going to judge, just pointing out something I noticed.

I highly doubt that L/L would sue ANYONE. If they were going to sue someone, they would have probably already sued David Wilcock for his "Ra" channelings. L/L is hardly motivated by money, they give away absolutely everything they have for free, friend. It's quite offensive to say that I'm trying to discourage people from channeling Ra because it might take money out of L/L's pockets. My real concern is for people's sanity.

I also don't think it's within L/L's personalities to encourage anyone to do anything specific - but what L/L IS doing is currently training new channels for Latwii, Q'uo, etc, because that is the service the Confederation is currently seeking from them. But my whole point has been wrapped around the idea that Carla pretty much discouraged the idea of trying to contact Ra again, because of her experiences and near death, and Don's actual death. Why would they encourage anyone to actively seek something that "found" them, that was so dangerous? If they thought it was so desperately important to channel Ra again, why didn't Jim and Carla seek another Don?

As you mentioned, Ra says that if they have reached one, then their mission is fulfilled. So, it seems to me that their mission has been fulfilled thousands of times over - so on that note, why would they need to try again? Ra also says that they have made a lot of mistakes by helping us humans "too much", and the Ra contact that we know is their attempts to correct this. I think their interactions on the third density plane are extremely thought out and deliberate.

I get it. Like you said, it's the same for me and so many people - the Ra material has changed my life so much. If another volume came out that to me, seemed obviously Ra and without contradictions as much as L/L's material, I would be the first person to be a LOO v2 nazi and you all know it. But when someone says they have recreated the elaborate efforts sustained by Don, Carla, and Jim by taking a bunch of drugs, yeah, I'm gonna be skeptical and probably say "watch out".

And let me say this once more, clearly, since this hasn't been tapped upon much on this thread either: Don went so crazy, because of their efforts to channel Ra, that he killed himself. That is what I am scared of. I'm not scared that L/L's going to sell less books or be discredited by some new Ra, I'm afraid that someone is going to fry their brain in whatever way they choose because of a desire for information that they believe only exists in some unreachable place outside of themselves.

[Minyatur]

@Muad-dib

I don't necessarily think everything you said is wrong in any way, but I think you might perceive contradictions where there isn't necessarily any?

What you call avoidance I see as a striving that many of us inherently contain. We are many to walk different paths, we are many to experience different passions, is this not most natural?

The path of adepthood is one where one is to clear it's lower rays so that they do not block the flow to the higher rays, so the path of adepthood and the striving for higher knowledge cannot be without a joint focus upon the lower rays. I think the imbalance of threads relating to this work is more that it is a highly personal work and most probably feel like what's been covered covers what they needed to seek in relation to that, and what's left is to apply the knowledge into one's life on a daily basis. Whereas a higher striving is more of a joint-seeking toward a common truth that requires keys to be accessed. Many seek to see beyond confusion and not dwell within it.

I might postulate back that avoidance of seeking higher wisdom might just be avoidance of some to know both themselves and the Creator with true deepness as a mean to dwell within the ego. So it does seem like a matter of perspective.



In regards to your comment that there is no difference in-between a native entity and a wanderer, I would beg to differ. We are mind/body/spirit complexes and while the mind/body aspect remains of 3D, the spirit of a wanderer is not of 3D and is an integral portion of what a mind/body/spirit complex is, and it seems to me that to take away this portion is to remove a huge aspect of seeking to know yourself. The main aspect that draws them together is the veil and confusion, which is in no way an integral aspect of what 3D is but instead an aspect of experiments to make 3D a more vivid experience, were this space not veiled I doubt there would be any wanderer because they would not blend in even as 3D mind/body/spirit complexes. To me, I would think there can be a very big difference even in-between two 6D wanderers were they able to both see themselves inhabiting the same mind/body complex, it could yield extremely different lifetimes for each of them because confusion has a talent of mirroring our time/space imbalances, making what we are above more complete through the process and the more this time/space self is complete, the least it will be fractalized or torn within confusion. This is the main aspect of why wandering does a great work of accelerating 6D evolution, you stop being bound to your balanced aspects to instead become slave to your unbalanced aspects without the sight of the balanced ones. I think to take a positive entity and force it into a negative density would do a similar work, the entity would become focused on it's imbalances until they reach balance and only then would it be able to perceive it's light self again. In the same fashion, here you require to balance your imbalances to reach a sight that is without confusion.

I do believe there is no better between lower and higher, those are co-dependant in their manifestation and each walks each height, but they are terms that refer to something concrete nevertheless. If you start piercing your veil in the seeking of yourself, you won't awaken to being a 3D native but will begin to grasp the higher aspects of yourself that ever were present in everything you have been ever since your birth. The present moment is now and every densities also are here and now for those who seek them. In my view the true shadow self lies behind our veils, the architech of our lower shadow selves and every unconscious behaviors.

So what I will ask back at you, are you not truly only limiting what you can become here and now?

[Agua del Cielo]

@minyatur

I agree with what you said!

I didnt want to advertise letting go of "higher energies" chakras and whatever.
I felt it necessary to advertise lower chakra work, since this seems to be strongly under-represented here.
So my post was biased by this (as are most posts i write actually).
I think the "higher work" is beneficial and to a degree crucial, otherwise there cannot be enough understanding for doing the lower chakra work and one can get lost completely in it.

I found however there is a strong refusal to "ground" oneself, for many seekers, also for me.
Then all the higher work can easily serve as an excuse.

The teason i advertise my points so heavily are:
Between 20 and 30 i was very head-heavy, i was heavily on a spiritual path (i thought at least), playing around with ideas, reading, thinking.
I made some progress. Some.
After i turned thirty, i started therapy, started doing breathwork, kriya Yoga and the likes.
I made significantly more progress in weeks then formerly in ten years.

It took me several more years to realize that my intellectualization was my biggest defense mechanism and my by far greatest obstacle in spiritual growth.
It took a while to find the roots of this, to reduce the need for that much control.

I realized that i knew nothing about me. I thought i did, but what surfaced in the following years painted a completely new picture.
I was still very keen on "higher experiences" (and still am).

At some point i opened the gateway to intelligent infinity the first time, which was completely life changing. Throughout the years this was happening more and more often.
It was however mostly by using substances, by means of trance induction or sometimes in meditation.
At some point it would occur quite regularly and reliably.
Then came the point when i realized, yes, i have these experiences. But my everyday life still was an emotional mess, it had improved a lot since i was 30, but still so far away from all these higher states.

At that point i realized how important the lower chakra work is. By doing this work, which i now concentrated on, my life would greatly improve in all areas.
Better relationships, better job, better emotional state and so on.
I discovered and dissolved so many blockages, so many hidden facets of me, that i didnt think would exist.
And slowly my everyday life would be really affected by my spiritual practice. Many of these "higher states" would occur while taking a walk in nature, and by other non-suspicious activities.

I found, a lot of what i was actually seeking (and attributing to "higher chakras") was actually a matter of lower chakras.
Also, i found opening the heart has (for quite some time on the path) more to do with lower chakras than green ray alone.
There is aboslutely no way whatsoever to open green ray if one is unwilling to deal with lower chakras, since every single reason why we in the first place CLOSED the heart lie all and i believe without exception in the lower three.


When we do only "higher work" we will not be able to embody this energy and we will become more and more detached from this earthly plane of existence.
To me its not a question of better or worse, we habe seven main chakras, for a good reason.
My left arm is no better than the right.
In fact i wouldnt want to miss neither of them

So, thats the reason why i heavily advertise
-a more emotional than intellectual approach
-the taking into account that we have hundreds of ego facets we dont even know
-that these ego facets rule us completely until we become aware of them
-some more humbleness, taking into account all the above


As for the difference in the "spirit" part of mind/body/spirit:
Thank you for pointing this outto me. I never thought about ghat. This could be right, i guess.
I will have to investigate it.

I hope i could clarify the meaning and background of what i wrote above a little!

[Minyatur]

I hope i could clarify the meaning and background of what i wrote above a little!

I found many of the things you said to resonate with me and merely wanted to offer a contrast.

Lower ray blockages definitely do limit our potential but a part of my path was to understand how they can have been desired from a higher view to mold us into the roles we came to incarnate. I realized how being closed allowed me to meet certain people at certain moments, people I came here with a duty toward.

Still, there comes a time to shed all our shackles and defense mecanisms off though, I did a lot of higher ray work, also with the help of substances, to crystalize a strong view of both myself and my reality and now is the time to open the lower rays and untangle what's been blocking me my entire life.

It's a complex work and I do believe each has a different path and reason they are where they are at with the focus they have.

[Agua del Cielo]

As i said, i agree fully with the benefits for higher ray work.

I'd like to add:

My current understanding out of experience is:

We come into this world with an access to "higher realms" that is beyond our imagination.
More than we can think of to desire.

Then we have one, several or many traumatic experiences.
These cut of our "connection" and lead to the reduced state of being we know.
These experiences, traumas whatever you call them reside as blockages in the lower chakras.
When we resolve these, we again have access to our higher connection.
Thats at least my ecperience and conclusion.

Then "real higher work" would then begin after this is accomplished in my opinion.

[Infinite Unity]

Very great story Ashim. Can't wait to keep reading. Please release them faster? I only ask. If not possible or not what you want I understand. I feel a urge from your story. It pulls and invigorates my own path, thank you

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

...

OH!  I wasn't implying, more speculating regards any of L/L's behaviors.  I don't think they'd sue, but I don't know.  I do admit I misunderstood you in regards to others channeling Ra.  I apologize, I'm sorry.  You made it sound more like it's almost considered impossible to me, so that misunderstanding is on me.

And I didn't mean to sound like I was inferring you were discouraging others from channeling Ra for money's sake, I merely brought that up as one of my random thoughts regards a potential issue that might occur.  It made me wonder how L/L would go about such things, hence my questions.  Again, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you!  I just wonder as to the purity of anything, L/L included.

Why would a war veteran walk back into war?  I wouldn't expect those from the original group to continue through that traumatic set of experiences, but that doesn't mean others won't try.  A few war veterans didn't discourage more people from going to war.  I doubt Carla's suffering and Don's death will dissuade some people from attempting to contact Ra.  Still though, your concern for others sanity is precisely what I was saying you should caution to others.

The major concern is that the contact itself almost seems vampyric in that the contact itself drains the 'Vital' energies of the one channeling.
The second major concern is the attraction of highly polarized service to self entities who would seek to end the contact through any means including murder.
The third concern seems to be in the extraneous efforts required to maintain protection and efficacy of the contact.

Without any of those considered, I would view attempts to contact Ra as asking for trouble.  Yet, I also think that if L/L withholds the information to maintain the efforts of protection and efficacy from a group seeking to channel Ra, it'd look highly suspicious.  I'm not saying they do or have, but I don't know.

How could Ra have found them if they didn't have that desire to be found in some way?  For the exact reason of Ra attempting to correct their introduced distortions is why I believe Ra might still try to make contact to another group able to produce another pure material.  Albeit I think the process might not begin again in my lifetime considering they have been around for a while, but in that sense I think it's important to not engender the idea of contacting them as forbidden.

Going to have to agree, it's hard to believe dropping acid, eating shrooms, and smoking pot is going to make a sustainable and clear contact possible.

Don went so crazy, because of their efforts to channel Ra, that he killed himself.

I'm going to be a bit brass here with this.  I don't know what the hell to believe.  Between the lack of information regards the way Don already was as some have referred to him in less than flattering ways while others have said he literally kept Carla almost like a slave at times out of fear for her life.  I don't know what to believe, but from what I have read, he was trying to be forced into a hospital.  He had a warrant served to him (unspecified what for), and had a standoff with the police who, for some reason, tear-gassed the house (which seems unusual to me but considering police brutality concerns, not surprising), he then walked outside into the backyard with a gun in his hand and shot himself.

There's A LOT of missing information and I can't surmise anything to be true or false.  Did he point the gun at police?  Why did they show up at all?  Why had no one thought to stop contacting Ra?  What's all the truth in this situation?

And why is there, at least to me, such a 'hush-hush' feeling around the entire thing?

Don didn't sound 'crazy', he sounded like he was in an extreme state of distress.  It sounds like a set of circumstances all culminating to an extremely stressful moment that was abysmally handled by what sounds like everyone present.  The police shouldn't have showed up for whatever reason they did.  Whoever sent the police shouldn't have done that.  Don shouldn't have been forced into a hospital if he didn't want to go so badly that he'd rather die.  Between the two choices of sending him to a hospital or letting him be, some kind of compromise must have been possible, such as permanently ending the contact if it was starting to deteriorate Carla' body AND Don's mind.  That is just asking for trouble to continue going, and yet they did, and it was the prerogative to do so.

I don't know what's real or true regards Don, but I don't want to accept his being called crazy or the way he is presented leading up to this death.  He was sane enough to grab a gun and shoot himself.  How easy it is to write off someone who's suicidal as crazy, how easy it is to call anyone crazy when we don't understand what they were going through.  I feel that there are some secrets being kept and I'm not really in the mood to poke at them, but there's more to that story, and to write it all up as he went crazy and killed himself I find highly offensive to my pursuit of the truth.  That's too simple, too convenient.

What's the story around that entire scenario?  How are we supposed to surmise anything regards the way things ended when we don't know the full details?  I could speculate but they'd probably be offensive sounding so I'll refrain from doing so.

I read, in the final channeling on March 15, 1984 such questions by Don as:

"I’m going to come back to a couple of points here, but I have to get in a question here about myself. It’d seem to be critical at this point. Can Ra tell me what is physically wrong with me, and what’s causing it, and what I could do to alleviate it?"
"Could Ra recommend what I should do to improve my state of health?"

Then his death in the epilogue is recorded as happening on November 7, 1984

I'm curious as to if anything else was channeled after this or if the group did stop contact temporarily or permanently in order to heal.  The 8 months between the last channeling to his death...  There's so many questions I have that I know won't be answered...  Did he lose his mind enough so to accurately be called crazy in those 8 months?  Why did a 'crazy' person have access to a gun?

I don't mean to offend, but I am moved greatly into sadness by hearing Don be called crazy.  Could you please elucidate on why you describe him as having gone crazy?  Was he eating bugs or looking into radically irrational ways to do things?

[Infinite Unity]

THIS  

@CA
I hold another, purecontact entirely possible!
Why not?

@all
However, i think some humbleness and some honest self-evaluation might also be a good idea.
The ego can be a tricky one, and i feel this has been taken into account sufficiently.

Just look at the forum. Even the thread titles can give an idea of what i mean.
I have to stress the factthat i include myself here.

Look at how many threads deal with indigo ray, higher densities, intelligent infinity and so on.
Look how few threads deal with how do i process catalyst?, how do i balance my lower chakras, how do i get firmly rooted in this very planet.
Look at how many threads and posts contain abstract discussion, theories and intellectual stuff.
Look at how few threads actually contain a person openheartedly showing its "interior".

I feel, there is a very very strong refusal to deal with "lower" issues, a strong denial of many of the problems that reside in the lower chakras, and also a denial which state of evolution we are at.

Sometimes all the inntellectualization is even referred to as "path of wisdom", as if we were at the same stage as 5d beings. To the oppositei think we are mostly at the same place just as "3d natives", unwilling or unable to face our shadow self, our unpleasant emotions and all that stuff.

Inthese lower chakra issues lies the very foundation of the ego.
Our refusal to deal with this is what makes it difficult, not that there are ego-facets,no, its thefactthatwe are blind to them.
And so they control us, color every tiny bit we experience and we dont even know.

While this is just the way it is for humans and is perfectly acceptable, it should betaken into account when trying to put channeled material of a "pure vibration" out!!

Just think of some of these questions:
Am i making this completely up because itgives myself more "spiritual relevance"?
Am i receiving a message from my "inner planes" and distortingit for some reason, pretending it was a more "famous" entity?
Am i distorting the material due to my own limitations (and just imagine how vastly big the limitations are if you not yet unblocked and balanced your lowerchakras are)?

Also, imagine Ra explaining the illusory nature of  time to a "normal" spiritually uninterested human being. Can you imagine how utterly distorted the result will be?
Do youthink we are "less limited"?
I think we are justas limited, we justcannot see the areas where our understanding is so greatly limited!

And i dont think earth moving into 4d changed so much, i think we can only, if at all, slightly grasp what 6d might be like.
I think even 4d would be be a big big challenge, ifatall comprehensible.
I believe all the talk we have about higher densities are not really about higher densities but moreso about our concept and imagination of it, which,inmy opinion, is something ENTIRELY different.


Sorry, if this is actually off topic, butit seems the whole thread off topic anyway
And i apologize for the rudeness that might be contained in my post.
There is no offense intended, but more a wish to open our eyes instead of over-estimating us constantly.


Edit:

This was not aimed at Ashim, but to the whole subject of channeling generally

I want to point out, that we as wanderers are in the EXACT same position as "natives". We are not "better" and we are absolutely not at all "evolved higher"
We might originate in higher densities. But the consciousness as well as the issues we re dealing with are EXACTLY the same.
We have some memory and connection of what it "was" like, back in the good ol' times when we were still 4/5/6d, and that is what powers our seeking.
But on the other hand our refusal to deal with certain issues is even greater than for the acerage human being for the same reason.
In fact, except we have done lots of serious work in consciousness or healing, we are probably for the most part LESS evolved than the average human.
Not sure if this makes sense to you, but i think this is important!

In the past I would completely agree with this conversation and point of view contained/expressed by it. However I disagree, I Find many post completely focusing on lower work, and getting very personal with it. There are plenty of threads about lower work and grounding. Becoming awoke in this very moment. The point I am most trying to make is this. That the information and.... Nature...of things are presented as they are needed. All this talk about this forum lacking or having to much of anything is subjective, and intertwines with the entities point of view that emanates from. For true wisdom is that you have exactly what is needed every single step of the way. There is no lack or abundance. There is learning.

[Infinite Unity]

I'm going to poke my nose in and make a few statements...

...

SMC, I applaud you in your honesty...And I wish I could hug you and say everything is going to be okay...  But I ironically understand your frustration with this community, and I personally don't want to see you, or anyone, go.  I left this place once, and am back now because I've found it's really the only place that has a pure and genuine energy of love as I can find on the internet.

So with that in mind, I suggest to you with love.  Please don't go, I think you just come off powerfully and that creates a lot of defense in others and they respond with the same sharpness they perceive in your posts.  I too at first felt that way especially towards your last post, but then I took my advice to you in another thread, and I stepped back and reread what you said without my emotional defense mechanism on RED ALERT.

I think you have a point in mentioning that the Like function does help create a un/popular dichotomy on b4 that is to me a bit...out of place...Sigh, but if it the will of things...  You will personally notice I have not Liked a single post.  I never plan to do so.  I'll post my likeness of a post, otherwise I don't wish to influence others by putting my name at the bottom of a post, I don't want to be part of a ganging up on...I've been there, and it fucking hurts so bad when another joins in to neutralize you.  Have some tears of mine, won't you?  I'm really sorry that you feel the ways you do...

But, I think I might...Maybe see a glimpse of why you have such a strong presence about your posts.  You said you felt suicidal now and then still, and I can't say I see that or feel that from you, but if you're anything like me, those energies are fed by emotions like anger and frustration, and I think you have a lot of frustration.

Not towards b4 or anything, but just in general, just like I have a lot of anger...  And you seem to handle it more calmly than I, because were I you, and I saw Kaaron's reply and all of those likes underneath it, you can bet safely an arm and leg that I'd have been broken by that experience and gave everyone a nice long novel of my hatred.  Instead, you didn't do that, and I admire that about you.

I admire that greatly actually, as someone who's already broke once and flipped my crap at this forum, I'm happy to see you handle such as you did.  I was wrong to think of you like I did in the other thread, but here I want you to know.

I'm sorry for what you've experienced during your time here, and I greatly think your beliefs towards this place now lead you to the encounters you have here, I can't specify what your beliefs are or how your encounters go on here but I want you to know that you're not alone in how you feel...

With that said, if I could make some statements you might not like.  I think Kaaron was touching upon something regards posting habits.  If your physical life doesn't match your online life, then maybe it's all about expression, and people are just mistaking your expressions for something else than what you intended.  I personally find it exponentially easier to express myself online (but I also lack anyone to be deep and honest and profound with), so I find it interesting when I see people who are hampered by the online medium.

All I want to suggest to you, is, well... I feel you have an entirely soft and loving side of expressing your dissatisfaction, won't you speak to us as a guiding mother would a child, with the softness of tone, and not the critical tone?  I know it is rude of me to ask this of you considering the circumstances, but I just want to help you not be received by others in such sad ways, and sadly that can't be asked of others when they all agree with one another, so it falls on you to meet these energies and remain yourself without succumbing to the want to look at them all and point out their faults.  I think you can do this, I think you've the softness and kindness to do so.

I think, you know the pain and suffering, and have the beauty of love such experiences leave in those scarred, and I think you can express that and not have others feel issue with you.  If you don't desire to do so then by all means, but I think your opinions and experiences and feelings are important to be shared, and if you can't share them because of
Others taking you as being rude
OR
You feel you can't be open here
Then we need to do something about this!

I still miss Bluebell, and I'd miss you too.  I don't need to know you or agree with you to miss you and not want you to go.  You're a human being, you come here, like many of us, for the joys of this place, you suffer like any of us, and feel like any of us.  Surely, both sides, the many who agree against you, and you yourself, can find some kind of compromise.

We can call the experiences therein this thread 'catalyst', but reality encroaches from 3D, is this 'catalyst' or are we just using that word to hide behind the conflict that took place in this thread?

I think everyone is in the gray here not completely right or wrong (myself included), and it is somewhat humorous to me to see such a myriad of discussions erupt from a story.  This must be how Jesus felt looking at two religion majors debate over his depicted self in the bible, one screaming at another about how he was loving and a symbol of divine justice, while the other screams back saying he's not white and not loving and not how he appears to be.  The energies of 3D go on and on as two souls who might be best friends in the afterlife accuse one another in their humanity.

If the issue of this material being mistaken as channeled material akin to the Ra Material is so pertinent, why not move this thread into the Treehuggers forum where nonmembers can't read it and current members can view it as Ashim's personal experience and not a supplementary information to tack onto the Ra Material?

I think SMC and Kaaron should apologize to one another and seek forgiveness.  Maybe you both feel you were wronged and in the right, in many ways this is both correct and incorrect, what matters now is the words are said, the deeds done.  What will you both do now?

Will you continue on as you were?  Will you pm one another and resolve this soundly and discuss your issues openly and wholly with one another, leaving out no comment?  Will you just grit your teeth and utter a simple sorry?  Or am I wrong in my assessment and suggestions and will you both turn on me?

I'd be fine being the scapegoat if it means you two can have a common goal and desire to bridge each other to one another and no longer fight...

^^^That's all A of C.

B.  Regards the issues pertaining towards the drug concepts in this thread.  If I could just cut through the fat of the issues and make a resounding statement...

We understand the consequences.

Simple as that.  I'd like to see studies with ratio comparisons of synthetic drug compound users who are fine to those who suffered ill-effects.  I find most studies purposefully leave out vital information such as (this isn't a legit example) how 1 out of 25 people will acquire a mental illness from smoking synthetic weed.  That number would be high to me, but for all I know it's 1 out of 2500 people and vastly lower.

Similarly, I'm no expert on LSD, I have tried again and again to get access to it but it seems the universe is protecting me from it.  Still, I think the consequences aren't understated, but I think the rewards justify the risk for a lot of people.  Hence, again, we understand the consequences.

I believe it is everyone prerogative to do as they will.  Want to try and channel a 6D entity while tripping balls on LSD?  Like, go for it dude, but I wouldn't recommend it, but I won't bar you from it, but again I highly suggest you not try it.

As for synthetics, similar opinion, go for it if you want, but like with ANY SUBSTANCE, please use in moderate and spaced out amounts so the body is not overwhelmed and damaged from the substance.  I doubt anyone smoked a single bowl of spice and lost their mind.  I imagine the major psychotic breaks came majorly from those who used the stuff like cigarettes, 7 joints a day, 5 bowls a day, back to back.

And unless I see a medical study taking into account such things and divulging the commonness of these occurrences, I'd like to potentially manifest reality by believing it is somewhat nearing very rare for a person to, from a few experiences, acquire a severe mental illness from smoking spice or doing a tablet of LSD.

Ironically my only experience with shrooms was highly negative after a positive period.  I spent a nice amount of time (over 10 hours) convulsing in bed and thinking I was being assaulted by a succubus after a couple of hours of a lovingly clean high.

So it's everyone's discernment that is important, you'll typically figure out quickly if something is or is not for you, and in the first times trying a substance, you shouldn't be like me and do that stuff all alone.  If things go bad, you want someone there to take care of you.

These common things should be what is discussed of these drugs, finding ways to minimize the damage, rather than just discussing if the damage is worth considering, because the fact is people are going to do that stuff even if it's not recommended.

Back in prohibition days, the government itself began poisoning bootlegged alcoholic products (which resulted in a lot of deaths by the way, thanks Government!) in an attempt to dissuade their already illegal distribution.  I imagine when people still kept dying the Government scratched it's head wondering why it's brutal method of combating illegal substance consumption was resulting now in more deaths than the substance itself caused.

I see a similar theme in this thread in the discussion of drugs.  I feel like we're looking at the entire subject from a judgmental viewpoint of if drugs are or are not worthy to consider.  Don't poison the substance, don't bar it, make it legal and tax the living ever crap out of it.  And, for real society, stop treating those addicted to such substances as criminals, an addict is not a criminal, not always anyways.

That's B of C, so far I feel like I'm setting myself up for everyone's dissatisfaction to be aimed at me...  I'd rather that than it aimed at each other, I feel I deserve it from my past on this forum anyways, so if your feelings have been redirected at me, thank you, please be angry at me and not the others...

C. Ashim, as for your story.

Damn it man, post moar.

Also, definitely make your disclaimer more specific to the issues you've not been told of so as to dissuade such issues from further arising for you.

I've enjoyed the story, and was...A bit put off to see how right I was at the mixed reception of this story.

Still though, it has given us all a chance to heal, as a community, and without this story to make such a possibility manifest, we wouldn't have the chance now to inwardly look again at ourselves as participants of this community and how we interact with one another, and garnish from those experiences further ways to make future experiences more enjoyable and loving for everyone involved as well as create some healing, most notably towards Smc who I think needs it more than anyone else, because of the suffering she's been loving enough to share openly with us, not because she's wrong or damaged or anything, but because as I see it, she's suffering, and deserves now our love even if she doesn't want it.

I wanted love even as I lashed out at others...Can't we try to give love to someone even if we have issue with their way of being in the present moment?  I wanted love when I assaulted Monica, I wanted love as I insulted Jade.  Love can make us say some pretty strange things, can make us come off much worse than we intended...  I didn't realize how deeply scathing my remarks in the past were until I reread them a year later.

Maybe I'm overstating a potentially seen much wanted and needed response by a majority of the community as being 'mean', I still think when someone is as I was, hurting and responding with those energies at the forefront of their formulation of a post, we should still try to be as the guidelines ask of us, loving.

Sometimes we say mean things, sometimes we overreact, sometimes we go on long journeys of suffering that others cannot see.  I don't think anyone did the wrong thing, I think precisely we have here a ripe chance for positive polarization, offering of forgiveness, extension of love, and acquiring an understanding of each other we might not have been able to appreciate prior to these experiences having occurred.

Let's all try to forgive one another, please?

And I like Min's idea of splitting the thread, could we possibly put the smc/kaaron conflict in the community relationships forum and the jade/aion discussion in the olio or diet and health forum?

AND AGAIN, I don't think we should look to blame anyone as inciting catalyst or being a problem, I think the conflict in this thread is a misunderstanding...And that we should look for the love to be had from this conflict instead of feed it further with explanations or defenses or anything other than the application of love, compassion, forgiveness, and light.

I apologize if I am out of line...  I don't like seeing people fight...

I personally like the like button, not because of an inflated ego. Rather it brings my attention back to that conversation. Were not voting for who is right and wrong. Also everyone doesn't use the like button with the same intent. If you feel like your being ganged up on...but I'm sorry to say your the one drawing the line in the sand. I am not attacking Smc, and I don't think anyone else is either. We are simply exchanging ideas, and opinions. There are bound to be opinions you will find that do not coelsce with what you believe or have faith in. I hope you stay as well. I definitely can feel your a genuine seeker. I apologize if I hurt your feelings or faith. I do not mean to demeaning.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Aw, naw it's okay.

I like the idea of a like/dislike system, but some part of me feels like it plays into the ego for some people, such as thinking 'will people like this post?' which might effect and change the way people would naturally openly and spontaneously express themselves.

I don't personally feel like anyone has ganged up on me, I was more infringingly speaking for Smc.  Just know, when I read Kaaron's remark, the one smc pointed out in:

I see many people have 'liked' your opinion of me being "arrogant".

Many forum members have 'liked' this:

And of which included a remark:

You wanna cast insults and get personal...lets go...I got nothing but time.

I literally in my mind just saw this:



So my interpretation of the situation was apparently way off.

I apologize for this!  Sorry!

I don't know beyond that much more going on regards the social interacting dynamics in this thread, I was just pointing out in that post that there was a conflict in this thread, and it was a good opportunity for people like Kaaron and smc, and all of us emotionally effected by each other's words, to connect and provide love to one another.  You know, forgive, understand!  Love

[Jade]

I don't mean to offend, but I am moved greatly into sadness by hearing Don be called crazy.  Could you please elucidate on why you describe him as having gone crazy?  Was he eating bugs or looking into radically irrational ways to do things?

You don't have to speculate. Carla spent many years writing about her experiences after the fact. Jim took over her blog in 2010 after he back surgery, but prior to that she has a lot of writings. Not to mention, Book 5 goes in to a bit of detail as to what happened with Don, and if any of you actually want to know where I make a lot of points about Don/Carla/Jim's life and where I learned nuances, you should also read the almost 600 page book that Gary created with interviews about specific parts of their life. There is plenty of information in there.

Towards the end of the Ra contact (a little over a year before it ended?), Don, Carla, and Jim's landlord was selling the house they were renting. They, at first, were going to buy the house from him, but the owner and Don began to quibble over a $5,000 difference in the asking price. Don wouldn't budge. So, they began looking for houses elsewhere - houses closer to where Don worked, at the airport in Atlanta, since his commute was so long (included driving to an airfield in KY and flying to Atlanta in a puddle jumper). They found a house nearby that was perfect, just a few miles from the airport, but apparently used to be a "party house" for some of the local athletes, so it needed some metaphysical cleaning, and maybe new carpeting, which Don didn't want to pay for. (he was stingy with money according to Carla) After they had visited the house they "should have bought", when they got home a hawk had landed on their porch and then flew away. Jim and Carla saw this as a good sign. Don saw this as a bad sign, because according to him, if they had received NO sign, they would have bought the house. But the hawk seemed like a "wrench" so they kept looking.

Finally they found a house in north Atlanta to which they moved. However, driving from north Atlanta to the airport in south Atlanta in heavy traffic was a worse commute than Don had before, so this was very stressful for the group. Jim told the story in his blog just the other day about how his brakes went out when he was moving their stuff up there - which he regrets not taking as a sign! I think the "hawk" incident, though, is really when Don's paranoia began to creep in. He also began to get more paranoid about Jim and Carla's relationship (as Don began to withdraw more, Jim and Carla spent more time together - but essentially Don was always Carla's everything). And the house in north Atlanta was horrible. As things progressed along, he got more and more paranoid, even telling Carla which chairs she was able to sit in because he was sure the others were bugged. He grabbed Carla once so hard to hug and kiss her that he bruised her arm - which is extra weird because he wasn't ever physically affectionate with her, but this was a function of his paranoia telling him that he was "losing her to Jim". He stopped eating. Jim and Carla knew he was going to die, he had lost like 60lbs, and he was extremely paranoid, so they called the police to try to have him committed. When the police got there, they took over the situation and wouldn't let Jim and Carla help calm down - all they were worried about was that he had a gun, and they had to stop the crazy man with the gun. So they wouldn't let Carla talk to him, she had to wait at the neighbor's house, and eventually Don gave up, because he didn't want to go die in a hospital, or have the police shoot him, so took his own life and died in his home.

Jim also hints to a story that it's possible that Don willingly gave himself to the negative 5th density entity who was primarily targeting Carla. Ra mentioned that Don and Carla had a "deleterious energy transfer" in which Don became the "weak and foolish one".

Don always had guns. Don was a military guy and also a trick shooter, so he always had guns, even when it made Jim and Carla uncomfortable. I think, even, the story goes that Carla tried to remove most of the guns from the house, but this one remained either unbeknownst to her or with her okay that "one was fine/necessary for protection".  

Don became increasingly more and more paranoid before he died. Carla talks about this quite openly. It's a very sad story. After Don died, Carla was bed ridden for like, 8 years? Something like that? So she basically almost died too. The efforts the group sustained to receive this information were no joke.

My apologies if my use of "crazy" offends anyone or anything. I'm just trying to make a point. Don devolved into pretty heavily onset paranoid schizophrenia, at least it seems from my perspective that he would have been diagnosed that way. Then he killed himself. Do I believe he would followed this life pattern if they hadn't had the Ra contact? No, I emphatically do not. I think his suicide was a function of the Ra contact, of the deliberate workings of the 5th density negative entity, and even a warning to others about attempting this work.

All along, Don had a lot of trouble opening his heart chakra. I think this was his true weakness. He had made a personal decision as a young man to look at everything objectively and to not be swayed by emotions. By the time he was in his 60s, opening his heart was so painful and scary to him. He wasn't prepared at all. Carla said after their energy transfer, he became so soft hearted he began crying while watching commercials. He was not prepared to begin looking at the world from this new angle.

Anyway, this is the recitation of events to the best of my knowledge. I probably left some stuff out. But according to the indepth descriptions Carla gives of Don in Tilting At Windmills, he doesn't seem like the type who would have committed suicide in a regular set of occurrences. Don had lots of friends, and enjoyed working greatly. He was social and gregarious, and everyone loved him. But, they had a 5th density negative entity who was INTENT on removing the lives of at least one of the group, to stop the contact, according to Ra at least. And it succeeded.