World Orion Seek to Destroy Humanity?

[Patrick]

...
Ignorning darkness is a denial of an aspect of self. 
Are you not all things?

I think we can all agree that "they" are not doing this to us.  We are doing it to us.  There is no "they".

That said, each of us can decide what we wish to put our energies behind.  If one does not wish to give more energies to its own dark side, one can only wish well to this part of self and let it be as is.

IMHO any attempts to change the way "they" are and/or what "they" do is a rejection.

So in this sense, ignoring "them" is not a denial, it is simply not reacting.  Not reacting does not mean repression.  It's accepting this part of self as is and letting it unfold as it will.

One is simply aware of that part of self and gives it space to be without the need to react.  You turn a loving gaze onto that part of self and truly wish it well.

When you do find your self reacting (practically unavoidable), you then turn a loving gaze onto your self and smile to that part of you that is reacting.  For we are all much more than just the part that reacts or the part that is the object of this reaction.

It is perfectly OK to just obverse lovingly, we are that too, Loving-Awareness.
 

[Ashim]

Let's look at what, in my opinion, played out in this thread.
The discussion was about Orion, destruction of Humanity and control, etc. Glow had pondered on the "value" of the negative polarity and the possibility that they were offering a great service. I posted a link to the Hidden_Hand discussion as I thought that this contained an interesting take on this very subject. The info is very much related to the Law of One and contains many similarities.
Someone then asked about the "tinkering" that the negative must do to gain polarity, so I posted a link to information about Svali, a case also discussed with Hidden_Hand. I specifically suggested that this testimony may be either true or not and that I regarded the information worthy of discussion despite the uncertainty of its origins.
Next someone gets upset because I'm "helping to disseminate conspiracy theories".
This, I told the poster, was being silly. Then said poster says I'm using insults, being disrespectful etc, goes in the huff and heads for bed.
Like so many 'spiritual types' things are fine, lovey dovey and space bunny until someone disagrees with them. I'm not sure about APeacefulWarrior, sure seemed fairly aggresive to me.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Of course and your free will to choose is how you gain momentum across densities in this Octave, so can't really escape that unless you wanna forever remain at the same level (middle path ftw, let's observe others polarize and realize polarity is never our true identity)

I don't see a problem with what you said, my post was more general and was left open in a tab since this morning.

Ooooooh, haha. Given the timing of the post, I just figured that even if you weren't replying to me directly, you were replying to the general conversation which had been going on for the previous hour or so. This makes more sense now!

And sure, we are not our polarity. We are not ANY fixed aspect of ourselves, aside from maybe the most vague of descriptors like "I am a spark" or "I am a perspective." Polarity is a choice, and while I respect people's choices in either direction, I still believe it's best if someone realizes what choice they're making. While (as Ra said) there are no mistakes, I still tend to think some rather unfortunate surprises would be in store for those who mis-read their polarizing choices in either direction.

(Just look at Aleister Crowley!)

[Sacred Fool]

Put another way, Ashim, you offered paranoid, fear inspiring information that some people read, but no one seems to have latched onto.  And, yes, some were upset by it.

Heck, that's more response than I get to most of my postings.  What's to complain about?

[Ashim]

Put another way, Ashim, you offered paranoid, fear inspiring information that some people read, but no one seems to have latched onto.  And, yes, some were upset by it.

Heck, that's more response than I get to most of my postings.  What's to complain about?

There you go again with "paranoid, fear inspiring...". I did make a disclaimer about the Svali testimony, so if anyone got upset boo hoo to them.
I do not post here to get a response although it is interesting to get them. All a bit strange considering that this forum is dedicated to the grandest of all conspiricy theories, whose implications, if fully understood would give most people kittens - The Law of One.

I guess my point is that it is impossible to stop the manipulation without first being aware of it, then understanding it. Not looking at certain things does not make them go away or cease to be effective. Sure, when first confronted with something unpleasant the response can be to flee or go into a state of denial. Neither reaction, in my opinion, bears the fruit of enlightenment.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Next someone gets upset because I'm "helping to disseminate conspiracy theories".
This, I told the poster, was being silly. Then said poster says I'm using insults, being disrespectful etc, goes in the huff and heads for bed.
Like so many 'spiritual types' things are fine, lovey dovey and space bunny until someone disagrees with them. I'm not sure about  APeacefulWarrior, sure seemed fairly aggresive to me.

Ashim, I didn't even reply to you directly, initially. I replied to Peregrine about what I felt was a problem with spreading conspiracy theories in general. I did not address you or even mention you, and I certainly did not accuse you specifically of anything. Then you chose to respond to me directly, and in the process, misrepresented what I said and judged me on it. Then when I tried to clarify my intentions, you did this again, and again. You didn't respond to my words, but to rewritten versions of them which often had very little direct relationship to what I had really written.

Then you called me silly, and immediately denied it afterward. I'm still baffled by that, but at least you're admitting it now. Otherwise, virtually everything you wrote about me saying you "should not come on here and spread information about the Law of One" or your "dark machinations" was simply NOT part of anything I actually wrote. Your rewritten versions of my posts are vastly more aggressive than anything I really said. As far as I can see, the worst thing I wrote was asking if your idea of integrating the darkness involved disseminating conspiracy theories. That was your chance to clarify your views. But you instead ignored the question and insulted me in reply while further misconstruing what I wrote.

Do you honestly not understand why I'd get sick of this behavior and give up on trying to have a productive discussion?

[Ashim]

Next someone gets upset because I'm "helping to disseminate conspiracy theories".
This, I told the poster, was being silly. Then said poster says I'm using insults, being disrespectful etc, goes in the huff and heads for bed.
Like so many 'spiritual types' things are fine, lovey dovey and space bunny until someone disagrees with them. I'm not sure about  APeacefulWarrior, sure seemed fairly aggresive to me.

Ashim, I didn't even reply to you directly, initially.  I replied to Peregrine about what I felt was a problem with spreading conspiracy theories in general.  I did not address you or even mention you, and I certainly did not accuse you specifically of anything.  Then you chose to respond to me directly, and in the process, misrepresented what I said and judged me on it.  Then when I tried to clarify my intentions, you did this again, and again.  You didn't respond to my words, but to rewritten versions of them which often had very little direct relationship to what I had really written.  

Then you called me silly, and immediately denied it afterward.  I'm still baffled by that, but at least you're admitting it now.  Otherwise, virtually everything you wrote about me saying you "should not come on here and spread information about the Law of One" or your "dark machinations" was simply NOT part of anything I actually wrote.  Your rewritten versions of my posts are vastly more aggressive than anything I really said.  As far as I can see, the worst thing I wrote was asking if your idea of integrating the darkness involved disseminating conspiracy theories.  But you ignored the question and insulted me instead.

Do you honestly not understand why I'd get sick of this behavior and give up on trying to have a productive discussion?

So... you "integrate" conspiracy theories by helping disseminate them, whether they're true or not? 



Well, it's your choice, but I tend to think that negative entities can fend for themselves and don't need much extra help. I'm more concerned about the damage such tall tales do to the unwary and the unprepared. Accepting that dark elements unavoidably exist doesn't necessarily mean disregarding the pain they can cause. 

Ok Peaceful, let me put it this way, you appear to be occuping somewhat raised if not higher moral ground. It is not your place to censor information to others. There are forum rules in place that deal with this. I really believe that you are concerned about the potential for damage that "tall tales" may cause, but I do not think that you should take up position as a self appointed guardian of the conspiracies. The "unwary and the unprepared" do not need you to contribute a bias. I would genuinly welcome a discussion based on the information that I linked too because I found it enlightening. I say nothing about it being 'truthful', as this, I believe, is the responsibility of the reader to pass judgement on.
To be honest this is a forum about similar information 'channeled through the ether' from space aliens claiming to come from venus and having built pyramids using "thought". I mean come on, how this 'conspiracy theory' differers from any of the stuff I posted is beyond me.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Ok Peaceful, let me put it this way, you appear to be occuping somewhat raised if not higher moral ground. It is not your place to censor information to others. There are forum rules in place that deal with this. I really believe that you are concerned about the potential for damage that "tall tales" may cause, but I do not think that you should take up position as a self appointed guardian of the conspiracies. The "unwary and the unprepared" do not need you to contribute a bias. I would genuinly welcome a discussion based on the information that I linked too because I found it enlightening. I say nothing about it being 'truthful', as this, I believe, is the responsibility of the reader to pass judgement on.
To be honest this is a forum about similar information 'channeled through the ether' from space aliens claiming to come from venus and having built pyramids using "thought". I mean come on, how this 'conspiracy theory' differers from any of the stuff I posted is beyond me.

If you want to view me as being on higher moral ground, that's your choice - but I didn't say anything like that.  I was just speaking to one of my own perceived forms of service.  Nor did I say anything whatsoever about censorship or being a "guardian of the conspiracies" or nearly everything else you wrote!  Come on, man.  Are you doing this on purpose?  I'm having a hard time understanding why you seem incapable of replying to me without first rewriting my posts to say things I didn't. (Then accusing me of being aggressive based on it.)

I never said anything to the effect that someone shouldn't share their views.  Only that it would be wise to consider the overall impact their words might have.  

As for the necessity of contributing a bias, that's kind of an odd statement to make.  Every post in every thread ever is ultimately contributing a bias.  Everyone has the right as free entities to do so, for whatever reasons they choose.  One could just as easily question why you believe contributing your own biases is necessary.  But I won't, because -again- that's simply what discussion IS: A comparison of biases, none more necessary or not than any other.
   
But either way, if you are honestly unable to respond to me without turning everything I write into a strawman, I'm just not going to bother.  You're giving me absolutely no reason to try having an actual discussion with you.  It's becoming outright exhausting trying to disentangle my real words from what you imagine them to be.

[Ashim]

If you want to view me as being on higher moral ground, that's your choice - but I didn't say anything like that.  I was just speaking to one of my own perceived forms of service.  Nor did I say anything whatsoever about censorship or being a "guardian of the conspiracies" or nearly everything else you wrote!  Come on, man.  Are you doing this on purpose?  I'm having a hard time understanding why you seem incapable of replying to me without first rewriting my posts to say things I didn't.  (Then accusing me of being aggressive based on it.)

I never said anything to the effect that someone shouldn't share their views.  Only that it would be wise to consider the overall impact their words might have.  

As for the necessity of contributing a bias, that's kind of an odd statement to make.  Every post in every thread ever is ultimately contributing a bias.  Everyone has the right as free entities to do so, for whatever reasons they choose.  One could just as easily question why you believe contributing your own biases is necessary.  But I won't, because -again- that's simply what discussion IS: A comparison of biases, none more necessary or not than any other.
   
But either way, if you are honestly unable to respond to me without turning everything I write into a strawman, I'm just not going to bother.  You're giving me absolutely no reason to try having an actual discussion with you.  It's becoming outright exhausting trying to disentangle my real words from what you imagine them to be.

You began with this:

Even if every word in these documents is true -which I highly doubt- disseminating it would amount to little more than acting as an Illuminati PR agent. 

You are essentially demonizing anyone who cares to post the documents, myself included. I did not post this info in a random fashion, it was most certainly within the framework of the topic at hand and even came with a disclaimer for the squeamish. You glanced at it and decided it was your job to ensure that others were discouraged from reading it, branding it a 'conspiracy theory' and suggesting that I was either knowingly or unwittedly furthering the agenda of a certain "Illuminati". This is essentially what I object to. A simple "I don't like/believe it." would have sufficed. Thus I implied that you were being silly, not that you were silly.
See, with all that psyops training you learn to use weasel words correctly. :-/

[APeacefulWarrior]

You began with this:

Even if every word in these documents is true -which I highly doubt- disseminating it would amount to little more than acting as an Illuminati PR agent. 

You are essentially demonizing anyone who cares to post the documents, myself included. I did not post this info in a random fashion, it was most certainly within the framework of the topic at hand and even came with a disclaimer for the squeamish. You glanced at it and decided it was your job to ensure that others were discouraged from reading it, branding it a 'conspiracy theory' and suggesting that I was either knowingly or unwittedly furthering the agenda of a certain "Illuminati". This is essentially what I object to. A simple "I don't like/believe it." would have sufficed. Thus I implied that you were being silly, not that you were silly.
See, with all that psyops training you learn to use weasel words correctly. :-/

This again? Your exact words were "Stop being silly." That's a clear-cut statement, not an implication, so I continue to be baffled about why you keep denying it. You're also skipping ahead a couple posts; you said that thing about being silly in response to a completely different message.

Also, once again I was not replying to you directly and I did not even mention you in that reply to Peregrine. I was talking about why I find conspiracy theories in general to be counter-productive, and explained in quite a lot of detail why I felt this way across two separate replies. At least now you've made it clear you felt insulted by my post, which is presumably why you've then been respinning everything I said in highly negative ways and making personal slights against me ever since.

But for the record, I stand by what I said and the reasoning I gave for it. In my experience, the vast majority of conspiracy theories serve very little clear purpose except for increasing the amount of fear in the world, and causing people to focus on the darkness rather than the light. And as I said before, if someone chooses to focus on the darkness that's absolutely their right on their own personal path. Everyone's got the right to share their opinions, and I've never even hinted at believing otherwise. But I've also got the right to share my opinion on the matter as well.

Either way, this conversation really has become unproductive and is merely becoming needlessly hostile. You have the right to post materials regarding "unimaginable terrors," and I have the right to point out the potential damage such materials can do. This would be a good time to just agree to disagree and walk away from it.

(And I'll tell myself the "psyops training" thing was another unmarked joke...)

[Glow]

Let's look at what, in my opinion, played out in this thread.
The discussion was about Orion, destruction of Humanity and control, etc. Glow had pondered on the "value" of the negative polarity and the possibility that they were offering a great service. I posted a link to the Hidden_Hand discussion as I thought that this contained an interesting take on this very subject. The info is very much related to the Law of One and contains many similarities.
Someone then asked about the "tinkering" that the negative must do to gain polarity, so I posted a link to information about Svali, a case also discussed with Hidden_Hand. I specifically suggested that this testimony may be either true or not and that I regarded the information worthy of discussion despite the uncertainty of its origins.
Next someone gets upset because I'm "helping to disseminate conspiracy theories".
This, I told the poster, was being silly. Then said poster says I'm using insults, being disrespectful etc, goes in the huff and heads for bed.
Like so many 'spiritual types' things are fine, lovey dovey and space bunny until someone disagrees with them. I'm not sure about  APeacefulWarrior, sure seemed fairly aggresive to me.

It was certainly at strange thread. I still greatly appreciate you posting that link. It was very thoughtful of you. It's strange the air of conflict that has been present in the forum recently. Catalyst.

[Chandlersdad]

As the original creator of this thread, I am amazed at the direction it has taken in assuming a life of its own. I wonder if the LOGOS ever feels this way?

[Chandlersdad]

In my humble quiet opinion, we need to know the Jungian Shadow of our Society and our Planet, just as we each need to know our own internal Shadow. Revealing some of the sinister machinations can be a Service to Others and even save lives. Perhaps this is a political view on my part that will enrage more traditional people. But in my view, no one in the US military fighting forces has (in a war context) "defended our freedom" (that so commonly slung around slogan) since World War 2. Every engagement of warfare since then has been for political and economic reasons. Yet, it appears that the vast majority of Americans still are brainwashed to think that our brave soldiers are in the Middle East to "defend our freedom" rather than what I consider the truth, i.e., our soldiers are there to defend corporate interests and profits. To me, if this was truly known by most Americans, it could save many well meaning but naive young lives as they march off to join the military in hopes of "defending our freedom".

Many of the leaders on this planet are STS. They may be actual psychopaths (with a dormant amygdala = the center of emotions in the brain). They have no compassion or love. In Ra's terms, they obviously have bypassed their 4th chakra. Some humans seem to have made this easier by being born with an inactive amygdala, short circuiting the area of the human 3 D brain that allows for the 4 D activation. Such people perhaps incarnate to increasingly negatively polarize and even use this ghastly birth defect to their advantage.

I do believe that the propaganda and brainwashing that is occurring is astronomical. I seldom watch live TV (prefer DVDs). But when I do spend a weekend with friends watching network TV, I am flabbergasted by the ongoing indoctrination and the basic invalid assumptions that are used as a foundation for everything from selling toxic fast food to "Being all you can be in the Navy" (or the latest whopper) "The US Navy, a force for good in the world" via public service announcements. Like Radio Free Europe during the Cold War, conspiracy theories based on facts can be like a cold splash of ice water in the face of the American public.

Nonetheless, I agree that a continual focus on the negative (even with the best intentions) takes its toll on a positive polarity entity. Like a corny saying my dad used "When you lie down with dogs, you rise with fleas", putting yourself emotionally and intellectually into a constant state of tension and alarm due to the ongoing antics of the STS crowd through out the world is very risky. The doings of the STS gang will wear you out! You will become negative. You will subtly change. You will find it easier to fall into the little traps set for you to judge harshly. For example, Scott Mandelker, a noted teacher of the Ra material on YOUTUBE, disturbs me by routinely referring to anyone who does not accept the Ra Material as "fools". He subscribes to many conspiracy theories and sees the world of 3 D often in very black and white terms. He actually believes that members of the secret Illuminati STS worldwide organization monitor his little YOUTUBE videos! I wonder how a man can talk about activating positive 4th Ray yet disdainfully refer to "unbelievers" as "fools". (He is a great teacher, but like all of us, he has some issues that are obvious to others but blind to him).

Anyway, I suppose I am calling for a middle road. If you have evidence of a conspiracy, then reveal it. But observe yourself carefully. Be ready to pull yourself out of that conspiracy meme before you de-polarize yourself and end up like a man I saw walking up a freeway entrance ramp pushing a shopping cart and bellowing about the impending apocalypse brought on by demon worshiping Democrats! lol

So for me it comes down to moderation in all things. We must integrate our Shadow as a planet, society and individual. But we are much more than our Shadow. The Shadow is a small portion of our infinite nature. Work with it but return to the Infinite Intelligence. Meditate, Pray, Have Faith. And do not partake in meaningless little battles on MY thread! (Just kidding, Ashim and APeacefulWarrior).

[Infinite Unity]

Hidden hand to me seems like an ordinary person who has done there Ra homework. I personally do not like the feeling get from hidden hand. I read some of her rhetoric on her being from s m c lucifer, and how Yahweh asked for help in his creation. When she spoke on Yahweh it was with obvious distain. It was pretty clear to me one of her main sources of information was the Ra Material. I don't like how she portays herself being of the bloodlines, and openly says she's a negative adept. Then a paragraph down will then flip to sto variations of material. So basically in my opinion of your interested in hidden hand, just skip to the source and read Ra. Everything else is her subjective view of what is. f*** all the channelings, and just follow your own path.

How about real critical thinking as aposed to whataboutism?
Discuss.

 The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

I was giving a small over-view of what my personal opinion of hidden hand. Nothing more. With the f*** channeling part it seems I went a little far, and possibly offended some entities. I am sorry, this was not the aim of my intent. I associated her messages with the term rhetoric, in how she would present herself one way, and a paragraph down she would flip coins, this does not resonate with me. Some may take this as just a token. However for me it was a much larger red flag. I never once said she was wrong about lucifer, or her theory of lucifer. However when one further analyzes what is said, who truly are orions? are orions just lucifer playing this game? So in short her negative adept speeches and stories of bloodlines, dressed in sto decor, isnt my thing. Nothing more.

[Infinite]

Well, in my humble opinion H_H said the truth. I've very reasons to believe.

First, the person that showed me the dialogue is someone that we can call "illuminated". He remember of all your incarnations. I asked to him if this planet was a prision and he answered me with the link of H_H.

Second, in all my searchs about Lucifer I found the same context: He is the Light of the Morning Star, in opposition the Prime Light of the unity. Like H_H said, the fall of the man was when the duality and freewill were implemented. Drunvalo Melchizedek* explains how Lucifer tried create a separated reality of the Infinite Creator. The "experential system" duality (to which we are submitted now) is work of Lucifer.

Finally, is possible to feel sincerity in the words of H_H.

One thing that H_H not said: the existence of beings like the greys and reptilians is consequence of the Lucifer's Rebellion. The Orion situation is consequence of this.

*In your books "The Ancient Secret of The Flower of Life Vol. I and II" he talks about the Law of One and he have informations similar to Ra. Including, Drunvalo speaks that Ra was one of the builders of the Great Pyramid of Giza!

[Glow]

Well, in my humble opinion H_H said the truth. I've very reasons to believe.

First, the person that showed me the dialogue is someone that we can call "illuminated". He remember of all your incarnations. I asked to him if this planet was a prision and he answered me with the link of H_H.

Second, in all my searchs about Lucifer I found the same context: He is the Light of the Morning Star, in opposition the Prime Light of the unity. Like H_H said, the fall of the man was when the duality and freewill were implemented. Drunvalo Melchizedek* explains how Lucifer tried create a separated reality of the Infinite Creator. The "experential system" duality (to which we are submitted now)  is work of Lucifer.

Finally, is possible to feel sincerity in the words of H_H.

One thing that H_H not said: the existence of beings like the greys and reptilians is consequence of the Lucifer's Rebellion. The Orion situation is consequence of this.

*In your books "The Ancient Secret of The Flower of Life Vol. I and II" he talks about the Law of One and he have informations similar to Ra. Including, Drunvalo speaks that Ra was one of the builders of the Great Pyramid of Giza!

I'm not really in this debate but I think you must admit things are about perspectives. There are no complete distortion free understandings here.

The part about the dark ie lucifer performing a service for the light. Is being bringer of light is in my resonance true. However stuff like earth being a prison and Orion being a consequence of lucifer a rebellion.... Seems less like "light" and more like the human mind grasping at filling in the blanks and creating a storey.

Much like the Ra stuff sometimes there is a lot of unnessisary debris added to the truth.

All Ra really needed to get across is we are all one but humans wanted the rest.
Same as HH saying the dark serves the light, well that's just a restating of we are all one. All truly serving the one. The rest of the HH stuff could similarly be taken as a version of distortion and more just storeys the human want.

We are all one. Serving in different ways that's why there is no wrong path only a path that is more direct. No real need to get hung up on the storey. The point we are one. That's it.

From that it should change your behaviour enough the dogma is nice/entertaining/inspiring but largely irrelevant.
Anyways my two cents. Perhaps worth less than two cents.

[Infinite]

I'm not really in this debate but I think you must admit things are about perspectives. There are no complete distortion free understandings here.

However stuff like earth being a prison

I'm sorry, the problem was my English. My friend said that Earth is NOT a prision. And so he showed me the H_H material.

and Orion being a consequence of lucifer a rebellion.... Seems less like "light" and more like the human mind grasping at filling in the blanks and creating a storey.

This information is of the Drunvalo's work. It's not a direct consequence but a indirect consequence.

Much like the Ra stuff sometimes there is a lot of unnessisary debris added to the truth.

All Ra really needed to get across is we are all one but humans wanted the rest.
Same as HH saying the dark serves the light, well that's just a restating of we are all one. All truly serving the one. The rest of the HH stuff could similarly be taken as a version of distortion and more just storeys the human want.

We are all one. Serving in different ways that's why there is no wrong path only a path that is more direct. No real need to get hung up on the storey. The point we are one. That's it.

From that it should change your behaviour enough the dogma is nice/entertaining/inspiring but largely irrelevant.
Anyways my two cents. Perhaps worth less than two cents.

I agree. Drunvalo justly said that the way of "not live in unity" is consequence of the Lucifer's Experiment. According with the traditional esoteric philosophies like Teosophy, Gnosis, etc. this can be real.

And another thing. Ra about Lucifer:

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad.
It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.
Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character
when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

Basically the same concept of the H_H message. Ra confirmed that Lucifer is a Logos and that free-will is a catalyst of evolution. Now, if H_H simply copied concepts of The Material Ra or if he was a really Luciferian it's another question. Peace, love and light.

[Glow]

I'm not really in this debate but I think you must admit things are about perspectives. There are no complete distortion free understandings here.

However stuff like earth being a prison

I'm sorry, the problem was my English. My friend said that Earth is NOT a prision. And so he showed me the H_H material.

and Orion being a consequence of lucifer a rebellion.... Seems less like "light" and more like the human mind grasping at filling in the blanks and creating a storey.

This information is of the Drunvalo's work. It's not a direct consequence but a indirect consequence.

Much like the Ra stuff sometimes there is a lot of unnessisary debris added to the truth.

All Ra really needed to get across is we are all one but humans wanted the rest.
Same as HH saying the dark serves the light, well that's just a restating of we are all one. All truly serving the one. The rest of the HH stuff could similarly be taken as a version of distortion and more just storeys the human want.

We are all one. Serving in different ways that's why there is no wrong path only a path that is more direct. No real need to get hung up on the storey. The point we are one. That's it.

From that it should change your behaviour enough the dogma is nice/entertaining/inspiring but largely irrelevant.
Anyways my two cents. Perhaps worth less than two cents.

I agree. Drunvalo justly said that the way of "not live in unity" is consequence of the Lucifer's Experiment. According with the traditional esoteric philosophies like Teosophy, Gnosis, etc. this can be real.

And another thing. Ra about Lucifer:

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad.
It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.
Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character
when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

Basically the same concept of the H_H message. Ra confirmed that Lucifer is a Logos and that free-will is a catalyst of evolution. Now, if H_H simply copied concepts of The Material Ra or if he was a really Luciferian it's another question. Peace, love and light.

Ah I misunderstood. Actually agree completely. So cool just like dark bringing light.
If I hadn't misunderstood I wouldn't have furthered the interaction and found how much we share an understanding.

[Ashim]

Hidden hand to me seems like an ordinary person who has done there Ra homework. I personally do not like the feeling get from hidden hand. I read some of her rhetoric on her being from s m c lucifer, and how Yahweh asked for help in his creation. When she spoke on Yahweh it was with obvious distain. It was pretty clear to me one of her main sources of information was the Ra Material. I don't like how she portays herself being of the bloodlines, and openly says she's a negative adept. Then a paragraph down will then flip to sto variations of material. So basically in my opinion of your interested in hidden hand, just skip to the source and read Ra. Everything else is her subjective view of what is. f*** all the channelings, and just follow your own path.

How about real critical thinking as aposed to whataboutism?
Discuss.

 The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

I was giving a small over-view of what my personal opinion of hidden hand. Nothing more. With the f*** channeling part it seems I went a little far, and possibly offended some entities. I am sorry, this was not the aim of my intent. I associated her messages with the term rhetoric, in how she would present herself one way, and a paragraph down she would flip coins, this does not resonate with me. Some may take this as just a token. However for me it was a much larger red flag. I never once said she was wrong about lucifer, or her theory of lucifer. However when one further analyzes what is said, who truly are orions? are orions just lucifer playing this game? So in short her negative adept speeches and stories of bloodlines, dressed in sto decor, isnt my thing. Nothing more.

No offence taken, in fact I like it when folks display passion. If it's not your thing then , of course, fine. 
Just one question: what makes you think that H_H is female? I don't think that was mentioned in the postings.

[Infinite Unity]

Hidden hand to me seems like an ordinary person who has done there Ra homework. I personally do not like the feeling get from hidden hand. I read some of her rhetoric on her being from s m c lucifer, and how Yahweh asked for help in his creation. When she spoke on Yahweh it was with obvious distain. It was pretty clear to me one of her main sources of information was the Ra Material. I don't like how she portays herself being of the bloodlines, and openly says she's a negative adept. Then a paragraph down will then flip to sto variations of material. So basically in my opinion of your interested in hidden hand, just skip to the source and read Ra. Everything else is her subjective view of what is. f*** all the channelings, and just follow your own path.

How about real critical thinking as aposed to whataboutism?
Discuss.

 The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

I was giving a small over-view of what my personal opinion of hidden hand. Nothing more. With the f*** channeling part it seems I went a little far, and possibly offended some entities. I am sorry, this was not the aim of my intent. I associated her messages with the term rhetoric, in how she would present herself one way, and a paragraph down she would flip coins, this does not resonate with me. Some may take this as just a token. However for me it was a much larger red flag. I never once said she was wrong about lucifer, or her theory of lucifer. However when one further analyzes what is said, who truly are orions? are orions just lucifer playing this game? So in short her negative adept speeches and stories of bloodlines, dressed in sto decor, isnt my thing. Nothing more.

No offence taken, in fact I like it when folks display passion. If it's not your thing then , of course, fine. 
Just one question: what makes you think that H_H is female? I don't think that was mentioned in the postings.

Very good question, I have from the onset, of reading some of her material, felt she were female. I would agree that lucifer can be seen in an archetypical format, as "the light bringer." The darkness bringing, or elucidating upon the light. Reminds me alot of how things in conscience are actually quiet on the opposite foot, as the saying goes. However the way the Hidden hand speaks of lucifer, is in a manner of personal to this planetary logo's experience. Hidden hand does not specifically give the same information in terms of it being a wide-spread archtypical over arching this entire galactic logos, in terms that Ra did. However I see apart of what Ra says is almost like a retro-active effect taking place. As if the logos previously choosing not to pass down free will, are now experiencing it being intertwined with there creations.

[Infinite Unity]

As the original creator of this thread, I am amazed at the direction it has taken in assuming a life of its own. I wonder if the LOGOS ever feels this way?

I would say yes, and that even the one infinite feels this way. This being from the foundation Free will. However I believe free will is propelled towards love. This free will/ love bringing about the potentials for all kinds of things, Which I know you are aware. However I believe the creator is in love with are stories, and it is its passion. Creating us, and creating things for us. Seeing how we react, and were these things take us. I think it is a passion for the creator. I believe love is the greatest thing the creator invented. I believe in a time before time, the creator was satisfied with being alone, and just doing what ever it is an infinite being would do alone...Then over a periods of eons which we cant even relate to in time. The creator went through a change and it became what we call cabin fevered. Were nothing makes you happy. Or did he see a mirage, and thought it was another? Went searching and went through alot of phases of being, and many new ideas he invented and thought.Then over "time" it found itself back in oneness. I believe all the knowledge it created/formulated on its journey was the original thought. It knew now it was one, and only through and in itself could there be many. So I believe it became the body or space portion of time/space, and lets us sparks reside in the mind or time/space portion. All things are done through the creator. I believe free will is the paramont rule because all conscience or entities walk its own path back to oneness just as the creator did. The creator the greatest being, the only being. Came to the decision that love was the highest, and through your own journey you would come to the same conclusion. That is my view point.

[Minyatur]

The way I see it differs a bit, love always was full and perfect but we are relative view points of this infinite energy and we complexify the One's understanding of Love through each of our gazes. We give strange shapes to love and create strange scenarios to experience love through, to forever always distill the whole of it as Love, always because Love is all we witness.

We are facets of intelligence contained within Intelligent Infinity and while we seem to experience this is never really so, each moment that is always is, yesterday did not vanish and the experience you had yesterday is still now, is still true and is still frozen into the eternal moment you had an impression from moving away from. Intelligent Infinity never is not full and always is in parralel to any point of experience of Infinity. Free will being the first illusion of experience, there is no free will as there is just the infinity we are and always were and always will be.

[Infinite Unity]

The way I see it differs a bit, love always was full and perfect but we are relative view points of this infinite energy and we complexify the One's understanding of Love through each of our gazes. We give strange shapes to love and create strange scenarios to experience love through, to forever always distill the whole of it as Love, always because Love is all we witness.

We are facets of intelligence contained within Intelligent Infinity and while we seem to experience this is never really so, each moment that is always is, yesterday did not vanish and the experience you had yesterday is still now, is still true and is still frozen into the eternal moment you had an impression from moving away from. Intelligent Infinity never is not full and always is in parralel to any point of experience of Infinity.  Free will being the first illusion of experience, there is no free will as there is just the infinity we are and always were and always will be.

I will agree in full contentment in everything you say in this post. However the relationship betwixt lovers, that fire, that want, that passion. Is more then just parallel facets in time. Frozen in eternal awareness/memory. I believe in a creator/unity/love symbiotic relationship. I believe we are direct potentiators for the creator, in a sense.

[Minyatur]

I will agree in full contentment in everything you say in this post. However the relationship betwixt lovers, that fire, that want, that passion. Is more then just parallel facets in time. Frozen in eternal awareness/memory.  I believe in a creator/unity/love symbiotic relationship. I believe we are direct potentiators for the creator, in a sense.

I say facets because you always are also everything else in the same moment you are what you believe you are, reality inter-manifest itself through you alone from all separated focuses of yourself at once.There are many dimensions/distortions to infinity, but distortions only create separation upon the focus of the Creator, free will is a bit like the ability of relativity within allknowing-ness but this is also contained within the allknowing-ness and cannot not be contained.

I think the lovers is awareness of seeking a portion of yourself in the relativity to not perceiving that you already do contain it. But there is no without the lovers witthin what is both lovers, it is ever contained within what there is illusionary separation of.