What is everyone's gut feeling on 2012?

[Quantum]

These are all great posts.


Maybe we just have existence at not only one dimension but at several ones, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6D

For some I was pondering over the octaves and I came with this too

OCTAVES

(I had a tendency to focus more on a possible STO path in this description)

1D
1 energy, atomic particles
2 atomic organization
3 molecular organization
4 elements fire water, earth air, forming stars and planets
5 forming planets become stable with geological phenomena
6 organic molecules, now with organic phenomena and water
7 nucleic acids and virus

2D animals and plants
1 bacteria
2 simple life, such algae or protozoans
3 simple plants and simple animals (insects)
4 flowers and herbs, fishes and others
5 the trees outside in my garden, most mammals, birds, etc
6 advanced mammals, such as dogs or cats
7 advanced primates (near 3D first octave), a few pets close to us

3D humans
1 brute animalistic humans, small self-awareness and of others
2 tribalistic human, awareness of a tribal group and of self (of course I would say native tribes nowadays are also very close to 4D)
3 early civilization, greater awareness of group and of self, STS power kicks in, but also the early STO acts
4 thinking man... dwelling between STS and STO choices, the normal man you find in the streets (no prejudice intended)
5 ethic advanced thinking man, entering spirituality, chakras become aware, learning the choices of love, self or others. It should a way where man progressively moves from emotions into third chakra and then into heart chakra, also from mind more to heart, and individual life to group or relationship activity or service
6 humans, having with peak moments, working in groups, spreading love energy (love chakra is active), and challening angels and etc. As part of STS fraction, brutal power is exercised and challened; also maybe dual activated children, wanderers, coincidences, love flow
7 all chakras activating and transcendence

4D
1 astral world illusions, spirits, spirits after death, wandering, with time-space potential and manifestation abilities and energy abilities, early begginings of group activity
2 devas and gnomes, elementals and fairies, therefore, memory complexes establishing, powerful love emotions
3 spirits, memory complexes, connections, past-life acesses, etc, refining love, like many
4 angelic spirits of astral world, entities developing powerful love feelings, maybe some lower channeled entities
5 spirit guides
6 powerful 4d astral societies, some 4D challened entities
7 ascended masters, transcending time-space

5D ... example of Christ energy, our souls roots, some channeled entities
6D ... higher selfs, Ra and others
7D ... Higher hierarchy angels...

Love for all
Don't take my analysis too seriously

Dear Dr. irpsit, ... (lol)
I like this thinking very very much. If you are not a Dr. of Biology perhaps there is substance enough here to accomplish a thesis on just exactly this model and these thoughts. May I direct you to what I found to be a very interesting breakdown on exactly your model here, particularly as regards man in 3D as to what you have described, given to me by our colleague "Zenmaster" from an entirely different thread on another post? Although the author Ken Wilbur addresses primarily a different tangent, on what I have teasingly referred to as "Metaphizzler Consciousness", zenmaster saw nonetheless almost to the letter what you are describing here and what the author Ken Wilbur writes to, this as described in his model of 'Spiral Dynamics' : http://rationalspirituality.com/articles...namics.htm

I will be as interested to see your response, as well as all others as regards Ken Wilbur's admonitions on shortcut thinking on the path toward higher consciousness, http://rationalspirituality.com/articles...Nature.htm

Q

[melchizedek27]

Blessings all,

My gut reaction on 2012, or really my heart reaction, leads me back to the native people who own the calendars that the first mention of the year as a time of change comes from. Probably, it would be best to listen to the Maya. Their leader says, " We the Mayans who have not been cultured by the Western Culture do not agree with all the negative things our sacred calendars have been involved in."

Some of the native shamans and spokesmen for the tribes have bought into the hype of significant upheavals happening in the next 3 years. This does not surprise me. If you look at the Maya temples you can see they had an obsession with death and destruction that goes back many generations and recounts many great catastrophes in ancient times. This is true of all surviving cultures with any historical or legendary record.

What I do see happening is a gradual shift toward understanding. The spiritual road map needed to help out the planet will become revealed to more and more people. I am certain that the values of many tribes and people will be a part of that. What will happen is more souls will appear to be liaisons between the technical world, the ancient spiritual people of the earth, and the people from other planets.

Honestly, the dimensional travel part is not that hard. We do it all the time. It's just like anything else though, it is hard to be productive, and easy to get distracted by things that are sensational. I wonder that people don't realize what a miracle they are doing when they watch TV. They are hypnotizing themselves and entering another dimension where they convince themselves that they are seeing something on a screen. I watch my dog sometimes and she is not getting the TV at all. It just doesn't seem to make any sense to her. The sounds coming out of the box make more sense than that 2D picture I guess.

I am lucky enough to have a lot of awareness of the cosmic broadcasts that are hitting the "screens" in our consciousness all the time. I am pretty sure that there will be billions of people who don't even notice anything different on winter solstice 2012, but it will be a big new years day for me.

[Ole]

Cool list irpsit !

Knowing full well that I don't know anything about this, but only for the entertainment of a metaphysical discussion, I would like to suggest that plant life is probably more advanced than animal life.

In your listing of 2D, you put animals further up, compared to plants. My experience with plant spirits suggest that some trees are extremely well aware, and many, if not most plants, are too.

Plants are not within the illusion of 3D, and because of that, they seem to have access to the energy totality of their own selves. Compared to the very narrow awareness of a 3D human beeing -- excluding the larger parts of us that we had to forget -- plants are actually much wiser, more intelligent, informed and more loving, than we are.

Teaming up with the plant devas, cooperating with them, can be very profound. We are on the recieving end of that relationship, I think.

[ayadew]

Very interesting list, irpsit.

I'd like to think that quite many people on this planet are in your 5th stage, for ethics and morality is a very active topic with the easy flow of information we experience by the internet. One can influence and be influenced by so many thoughts, so intellectual and spiritual growth is truly increased/encouraged.
Few there are that could be 6th, but they do exist.

[Quantum]

3D humans
1 brute animalistic humans, small self-awareness and of others
2 tribalistic human, awareness of a tribal group and of self (of course I would say native tribes nowadays are also very close to 4D)
3 early civilization, greater awareness of group and of self, STS power kicks in, but also the early STO acts
4 thinking man... dwelling between STS and STO choices, the normal man you find in the streets (no prejudice intended)
5 ethic advanced thinking man, entering spirituality, chakras become aware, learning the choices of love, self or others. It should a way where man progressively moves from emotions into third chakra and then into heart chakra, also from mind more to heart, and individual life to group or relationship activity or service
6 humans, having with peak moments, working in groups, spreading love energy (love chakra is active), and challening angels and etc. As part of STS fraction, brutal power is exercised and challened; also maybe dual activated children, wanderers, coincidences, love flow
7 all chakras activating and transcendence

Forgive me for the cutting and pasting below of a link I offered before in my previous post that was given to us by our colleague zenmaster, but I had trouble making the link click on in my previous post for some reason? I offer the link again, as well as the article, both below just in case, by Ken Wilber. Its not too terribly long, but I certainly think it worth the effort, as much as in keeping with irpsit's insight. It certainly seems congruent with the LOO as regards the Harvest.

SPIRAL DYNAMICS AND THE WAVES OF EXISTENCE

by Ken Wilber

The first six levels are "subsistence levels" marked by "first-tier thinking." Then there occurs a revolutionary shift in consciousness: the emergence of "being levels" and "second-tier thinking," of which there are two major waves. Here is a brief description of all eight waves, the percentage of the world population at each wave, and the percentage of social power held by each.

1. Beige: Archaic-Instinctual . The level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life.

Where seen: First human societies, newborn infants, senile elderly, late-stage Alzheimer's victims, mentally ill street people, starving masses, shell shock. Approximately 0.1% of the adult population, 0% power.

2. Purple: Magical-Animistic . Thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes . The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links. Sounds "holistic" but is actually atomistic: "there is a name for each bend in the river but no name for the river."

Where seen: Belief in voodoo-like curses, blood oaths, ancient grudges, good luck charms, family rituals, magical ethnic beliefs and superstitions; strong in Third-World settings, gangs, athletic teams, and corporate "tribes." 10% of the population, 1% of the power.

3. Red: Power Gods . First emergence of a self distinct from the tribe; powerful, impulsive, egocentric, heroic. Magical-mythic spirits, dragons, beasts, and powerful people. Archetypal gods and goddesses, powerful beings, forces to be reckoned with, both good and bad. Feudal lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor. The basis of feudal empires --power and glory. The world is a jungle full of threats and predators. Conquers, out-foxes, and dominates; enjoys self to the fullest without regret or remorse; be here now.

Where seen: The "terrible twos," rebellious youth, frontier mentalities, feudal kingdoms, epic heroes, James Bond villains, gang leaders, soldiers of fortune, New-Age narcissism, wild rock stars, Atilla the Hun, Lord of the Flies . 20% of the population, 5% of the power.

4. Blue: Mythic Order . Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong." Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions. Following the code yields rewards for the faithful. Basis of ancient nations . Rigid social hierarchies; paternalistic; one right way and only one right way to think about everything. Law and order; impulsivity controlled through guilt; concrete-literal and fundamentalist belief; obedience to the rule of Order; strongly conventional and conformist. Often "religious" or "mythic" [in the mythic-membership sense; Graves and Beck refer to it as the "saintly/absolutistic" level], but can be secular or atheistic Order or Mission.

Where seen: Puritan America, Confucian China, Dickensian England, Singapore discipline, totalitarianism, codes of chivalry and honor, charitable good deeds, religious fundamentalism (e.g., Christian and Islamic), Boy and Girl Scouts, "moral majority," patriotism. 40% of the population, 30% of the power.

5. Orange: Scientific Achievement . At this wave, the self "escapes" from the "herd mentality" of blue, and seeks truth and meaning in individualistic terms--hypothetico-deductive, experimental, objective, mechanistic, operational--"scientific" in the typical sense. The world is a rational and well-oiled machine with natural laws that can be learned, mastered, and manipulated for one's own purposes. Highly achievement oriented, especially (in America) toward materialistic gains. The laws of science rule politics, the economy, and human events. The world is a chess-board on which games are played as winners gain pre-eminence and perks over losers. Marketplace alliances; manipulate earth's resources for one's strategic gains. Basis of corporate states .

Where seen: The Enlightenment, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged , Wall Street, emerging middle classes around the world, cosmetics industry, trophy hunting, colonialism, the Cold War, fashion industry, materialism, secular humanism, liberal self-interest. 30% of the population, 50% of the power.

6. Green: The Sensitive Self . Communitarian, human bonding, ecological sensitivity, networking. The human spirit must be freed from greed, dogma, and divisiveness; feelings and caring supersede cold rationality; cherishing of the earth, Gaia, life. Against hierarchy; establishes lateral bonding and linking. Permeable self, relational self, group intermeshing. Emphasis on dialogue, relationships. Basis of value communities (i.e., freely chosen affiliations based on shared sentiments). Reaches decisions through reconciliation and consensus (downside: interminable "processing" and incapacity to reach decisions). Refresh spirituality, bring harmony, enrich human potential. Strongly egalitarian, anti-hierarchy, pluralistic values, social construction of reality, diversity, multiculturalism, relativistic value systems; this worldview is often called pluralistic relativism . Subjective, nonlinear thinking; shows a greater degree of affective warmth, sensitivity, and caring, for earth and all its inhabitants.

Where seen: Deep ecology, postmodernism, Netherlands idealism, Rogerian counseling, Canadian health care, humanistic psychology, liberation theology, cooperative inquiry, World Council of Churches, Greenpeace, animal rights, ecofeminism, post-colonialism, Foucault/Derrida, politically correct, diversity movements, human rights issues, ecopsychology. 10% of the population, 15% of the power. [Note: this is 10% of the world population. Don Beck estimates that around 20-25% of the American population is green.]

With the completion of the green meme, human consciousness is poised for a quantum jump into "second-tier thinking." Clare Graves referred to this as a "momentous leap," where "a chasm of unbelievable depth of meaning is crossed." In essence, with second-tier consciousness, one can think both vertically and horizontally, using both hierarchies and heterarchies (both ranking and linking). One can therefore, for the first time, vividly grasp the entire spectrum of interior development , and thus see that each level, each meme, each wave is crucially important for the health of the overall Spiral.

As I would word it, each wave is "transcend and include." That is, each wave goes beyond (or transcends) its predecessor, and yet it includes or embraces it in its own makeup. For example, a cell transcends but includes molecules, which transcend but include atoms. To say that a molecule goes beyond an atom is not to say that molecules hate atoms, but that they love them: they embrace them in their own makeup; they include them, they don't marginalize them. Just so, each wave of existence is a fundamental ingredient of all subsequent waves, and thus each is to be cherished and embraced.

Moreover, each wave can itself be activated or reactivated as life circumstances warrant. In emergency situations, we can activate red power drives; in response to chaos, we might need to activate blue order; in looking for a new job, we might need orange achievement drives; in marriage and with friends, close green bonding. All of these memes have something important to contribute.

But what none of the first-tier memes can do, on their own, is fully appreciate the existence of the other memes. Each of the first-tier memes thinks that its worldview is the correct or best perspective. It reacts negatively if challenged; it lashes out, using its own tools, whenever it is threatened. Blue order is very uncomfortable with both red impulsiveness and orange individualism. Orange individualism thinks blue order is for suckers and green egalitarianism is weak and woo-woo. Green egalitarianism cannot easily abide excellence and value rankings, big pictures, hierarchies, or anything that appears authoritarian, and thus green reacts strongly to blue, orange, and anything post-green.

All of that begins to change with second-tier thinking. Because second-tier consciousness is fully aware of the interior stages of development--even if it cannot articulate them in a technical fashion--it steps back and grasps the big picture, and thus second-tier thinking appreciates the necessary role that all of the various memes play . Second-tier awareness thinks in terms of the overall spiral of existence, and not merely in the terms of any one level.

Where the green meme begins to grasp the numerous different systems and pluralistic contexts that exist in different cultures (which is why it is indeed the sensitive self, i.e., sensitive to the marginalization of others), second-tier thinking goes one step further. It looks for the rich contexts that link and join these pluralistic systems, and thus it takes these separate systems and begins to embrace, include, and integrate them into holistic spirals and integral meshworks. Second-tier thinking, in other words, is instrumental in moving from relativism to holism, or from pluralism to integralism .

The extensive research of Graves, Beck, and Cowan indicates that there are at least two major waves to this second-tier integral consciousness:

7. Yellow: Integrative . Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies [holarchies], systems, and forms. Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority. Differences and pluralities can be integrated into interdependent, natural flows. Egalitarianism is complemented with natural degrees of ranking and excellence. Knowledge and competency should supersede power, status, or group sensitivity. The prevailing world order is the result of the existence of different levels of reality (memes) and the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the dynamic spiral. Good governance facilitates the emergence of entities through the levels of increasing complexity (nested hierarchy). 1% of the population, 5% of the power.

8. Turquoise: Holistic . Universal holistic system, holons/waves of integrative energies; unites feeling with knowledge; multiple levels interwoven into one conscious system. Universal order, but in a living, conscious fashion, not based on external rules (blue) or group bonds (green). A "grand unification" [a "theory of everything" or T.O.E.] is possible, in theory and in actuality. Sometimes involves the emergence of a new spirituality as a meshwork of all existence. Turquoise thinking uses the entire Spiral; sees multiple levels of interaction; detects harmonics, the mystical forces, and the pervasive flow-states that permeate any organization. 0.1% of the population, 1% of the power.

With less than 2 percent of the population at second-tier thinking (and only 0.1 percent at turquoise), second-tier consciousness is relatively rare because it is now the "leading-edge" of collective human evolution. As examples, Beck and Cowan mention items that include Teilhard de Chardin's noosphere, chaos and complexity theories, universal systems thinking, integral-holistic theories, Gandhi's and Mandela's pluralistic integration, with increases in frequency definitely on the way, and even higher memes still in the offing....

[Quantum]

Given the overlap between the two threads 'What is Everyone's gut feeling on 2012/The Harvest' and 'Strictly Law of One/Earth in 3D-7th Octave' as regards the last several posts of zenmaster (on the latter), it seems apropos to serve as liaison by again posting his continuing insights to this conversation as well:

Thank you for a 2nd time (i.e. zenmaster). It seems very congruent indeed (i.e. to the LOO), and almost a heeding of sorts as a means of avoiding the trappings and pitfalls of what I have come to name "Metaphizzler Consciousness" which may do no more harm than simple daydreaming without substance of a better world, to an outright arrested spiritual development.

Each developmental level may have both healthy (supportive) and pathological (destructive) manifestations
(insert: here zenmaster is referring to Ken Wilber's pre-trans fallacies)
http://rationalspirituality.com/articles...Nature.htm
For example, "Metaphizzler Consciousness" and shortcut thinking are pathological conditions associated with the "Green vMeme" level of the Spiral Dynamics model
(entire article in above post). It's as if one meets a part of themselves there, for the first time, and gets "stuck" in a kind of trap. So there is slowed progress towards that jump to "2nd tier" thinking or feeling. As Ra said: "In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned."

Have you considered this:
subdensity - SD vMeme - Logos Archetype - Mind - Body - Sprit
1 - Beige - Matrix - Magician - Justice - Devil
2 - Purple - Potentiator - Priestess - Hermit - Tower
3 - Red - Catalyst - Empress - Wheel - Star
4 - Blue - Experience - Emporor - Strength - Moon
5 - Orange - Significator - Heiorphant - Hanged Man - Sun
6 - Green - Transformation - Lovers - Death - Judgement
7 - Yellow - Great Way - Chariot - Temperance - World

[PandaB]

I was reading mathewbooks.com and he said this transition is considered very fast in terms of time on Earth like 70 years and has already started and will be ending in 2012. it supposed to be the first time in our galaxacy history to be this super fast and we have extra spiritual help for it to do this at this time.

suppose to be an Earth experiment also to have many different beings on the Earth from different places so the process of transition is more difficult due to different energy types,

a couple billions of beings that died from the planet Mars when it was destroyed 40 million years ago. and billions of beings from other planets that they were destroyed by the people. These beings are given this chance on Earth now again to make the shift to the positive, but will enough people choose the light/love path. ?

It is possible for the Earth to be destroyed at this time but I don't feel it will happen.

The Earth has been destroyed 2 times already and re seeded with humans again. It may have taken the Earth 100 million years to recover and gain back the oceans and sky and beings but the Earth is old.
Some of the advanced humans living now under the Earth are from the previous people who used to live on the Earth.

just like there are 6 million Mars human people living under the Mars, they were what was left from the Mars people when it got destroyed by toxic gas. They were killed by gas within 4 months and some survived by going under ground. They haved survived generations and have their civilization. unfortuneately this doomesday is that the same toxic gas under our Earth oceans are starting to rise, part of the green house gas effect from methaine in the air. 80 pecent of this gas is from the raising and breeding of farm animals for food all over the world.

The best way to prevent to Earth from being destroyed is to adopt a Vegan diet. this prevents killing karma, as well as toxic gas. www.suprememastertv.com for info.

So the doomes day is one path the Earth can take,and the Golden Age is the other path.

Both are possible. I myself do believe that the Golden Age of Earth will be the one that is our reality because we are having the most help from the Highest Creator this time to make it come true. I just do see t he Earth being destroyed again.

enough people on the Earth have now 2009 adopted Vegan diet to make a positive critical mass effect to stabilize the Earth,
the negative karma from killing billions of sentient animal beings is causing the destruction and has to be stopped.
the critical mass effect will influence the other people on the Earth to become veg.

One way for a person to make a big shift to the positive service to others and help save the Earth is to be Veg,

stop eating and killing the others/self beings, are not the animals our brothers and sisters in spirit?? they just look different that's all

are not they our friends?? do you eat and kill your friends??

2012 is a higher vibration in many ways and DNA. the Vegan compassionate diet is in line with the higher loving vibrations so the universe is looking at us now to see whether we the 'Earth people have learned to polarize to the positive loving way of living.

the closer we get to 2012 the more people are awakening to this and becoming VEG. the veg diet helps and shows that you made a shift to compassionate way of life and helps your vibration to quicken to the higher 4th plane.
eventually those who can not handle the higher vibrations will leave the Earth because they can not bare it.

How many earthquakes, floods, and other disastors that happen in the next years will be in relation to the many compassionate veg people we have all over the world. the more Veg people, the less suffering and wars ect.

if you want to do your part just become vegetarian or vegan.

Remember what you do unto others shall be done unto you, the law of karma. at sometime or another. now or later.
"others" means any being, that includes animals, fish, trees, plants, rocks, planets, any being at all.

would you like to be killed with fear and eaten, i don't think so.
think of the suffering animals and fish before you eat ever again.
if you think of their crys in terror you can not eat them. fish cry too you may not be able hear it.

also 2012 is a Venus calandar year from Quetzacoatl, saying this is a turning point into the new era of the Golden age and he will return to the Earth at this time, its possible he is here, and maybe Jesus too, they may be already on the Earth.
do you know otherwise??

Remember these were also Veg beings, teaching no killing. any info that says otherswise is incorrect info from the negative beings who want killing of all kinds.

This may be too much to take but these kind of Christ beings are the ones that have been helping the Earth and all beings to get to this point in the transition to the 4th plane and it's all coming to the end now.
don't you think they may want to return into the physical at this time to make sure it all goes well??

Just because you don't know who they are now, doesn't mean they are not here on Earth, maybe in a different body but still the same spirit person. They do not have to be seen to the mass public to do their helping job.
I think it is only one Christ being now on the Earth because only one such great being is needed to do the job.

conclusion
Just be a Vegetarian from this day forward.

2012 is the Golden Age of Love, remember love always for all beings

be grateful for everything in your life, think noble thoughts, do noble deeds
this is how you will create love, peace and happiness coming back to you in your life
help the Earth lesson the karma burden by becoming vegetarian and help stop the killing

wishing you Gods peace and love











From my current understanding at this time is that people now at this 3rd plane must choose to become more loving and compassionate, service to others types or they can't progress to 4th plane.

[irpsit]

Cool stuff.
Dear friends, and Quantum, thanks for your replies In fact, I study Biology, so maybe there comes my bias!
Of course, this is only intended for fun purposes, since I have took a day of two pondering on this and I came with this.

Actually, I frequently have this kind of insights, maybe coming from other higher dimensions, but I prefer to keep them always as some sort of "only for fun" in my knowledge database, lol

Yes, trees are defitively advanced beings. Maybe even higher than animals.
I remember once to feel their inner being as very powerful and benevolent beings.
Or maybe it was the devas.

Since I do plenty of gardening and food growing, I like to try out these meditation with their spirits.
And there is so much we really dont know well about higher realms!

I have read last month, two books on a doctor who makes past-life and between-lifes regressions, and describes the spiritual realms by the people's accounts. So incredible! But I still dont know how much is true. Maybe somewhat in accordance to one beliefs.

---

And thanks for the other material Quantum.
That looks pretty interesting and "fun" too

A little bit like the scheme of the relation between the Mayan calendar cycles and the different stages of human civilizational evolution. From tribal to present, even when I consider some nowadays tribal people to be far more advanced than ours (spiritually speaking).

[Monica]

The best way to prevent to Earth from being destroyed is to adopt a Vegan diet. this prevents killing karma, as well as toxic gas...the negative karma from killing billions of sentient animal beings is causing the destruction and has to be stopped.
the critical mass effect will influence the other people on the Earth to become veg.

One way for a person to make a big shift to the positive service to others and help save the Earth is to be Veg,

I agree. Except for some rare instances in which the person has a medical condition which requires the consumption of meat, most people can easily be vegetarians.

Millions of 2D beings, who feel fear and pain, are being slaughtered each and every day. How could this not affect the overall vibration of the planet?

[Sirius]

I heard if we didnt eat cow's they would over run us. Hence the "Holy Cow" the one meat you can eat on earth?

This thread seems to have wandered far from "gut feelings" so I might as well put my thought into words.

The nearly never ending argument of the sudden shift vs the gradual shift into 4D. Those who think it will be in the 700 year transition period, what does 2012 actually represent to you?

and an Idea that might possably merge the 2 concepts. What if in 2012 we did suffer the cataclysmic earth changes, alot of us would die (some would speculate you dissappear) making us lose our 3D bodies. opening the way for 4D incarnation.

Just some musing thoughts

[DanielDillon]

My friends, this debate is indeed an interesting one, but not for it's contents.

My above statement may seem as a paradox.

Attempt now to detach from maze of meanings within it, and rise above.

Imagine you are within a deep forest, trying to figure out the shape of it, searching all round, discovering many different things, but all acting as distractions.

Now imagine yourself rising, floating above the forest, seeing the Whole. Ah, now we can see the shape!

So what is the shape of this thread?

If we rise above all the rational constructs of the logical brain, what is left?

We can see a vast myriad of thoughts from a diverse range if unique entities. These entities are you! All expressing your Selves in this moment. It is a beautiful process.

We are already all that Is. We are all unique individual portions of the Creator. There are no 'Greater' beings, we are all the same. No entities are more knowledgable than us. How can they be more knowledgable than God? We already know this, we just have to wake up and remember it.

Meditate upon this: The word 'distortion' comes up a lot in the LOO. What if we changed this word to 'belief'? This would imply that without any beliefs there is only the source. The more refined our indivudal belief system becomes, as a result of our lives, the further we distort from the truth.

It is time to realise that all things are truth. We can 'choose' our own individual truth. We can 'define' our own belief system. This choice makes us co-creators. This makes us able to shape our reality and perception as we know it. For here lies the real work.

Seeing 'others' as being greater serves only to limit ourselves, and is a perception created from a 'belief' that we are somehow 'less' than Gods. And here lies the original distortion from the Law of One. That we believe we are not One. But we are!. We are One. We are the Creator, together, we shall remember.

Rejoice my friends in the Love of the One and Infinite Creator in each of us!

[irpsit]

This thread seems to have wandered far from "gut feelings" so I might as well put my thought into words.

The nearly never ending argument of the sudden shift vs the gradual shift into 4D. Those who think it will be in the 700 year transition period, what does 2012 actually represent to you?

My gut feeling is for some surprises in and the time after 2012, but not the sudden transition. My gut feeling is for the gradual 500 years transition.

The surprise would be, I think, the most dramatic time period of change ever, exactly as it is happening now. A few geological phenomena, conflicts, social crisis giving way to pockets of communitarian and local-based living. My first gut feeling is for both stressful but at the same time awesome inspiring years!!!

Actually, when I try to visualize myself in 2012 I see myself in nature, away from whatever may be happening, and contemplating the stars and the calm sea waters, with a couple of close ones.

And, what are your gut feelings???

[fairyfarmgirl]

This thread seems to have wandered far from "gut feelings" so I might as well put my thought into words.

The nearly never ending argument of the sudden shift vs the gradual shift into 4D. Those who think it will be in the 700 year transition period, what does 2012 actually represent to you?

My gut feeling is for some surprises in and the time after 2012, but not the sudden transition. My gut feeling is for the gradual 500 years transition.

The surprise would be, I think, the most dramatic time period of change ever, exactly as it is happening now. A few geological phenomena, conflicts, social crisis giving way to pockets of communitarian and local-based living. My first gut feeling is for both stressful but at the same time awesome inspiring years!!!

Actually, when I try to visualize myself in 2012 I see myself in nature, away from whatever may be happening, and contemplating the stars and the calm sea waters, with a couple of close ones.

And, what are your gut feelings???

This is along the lines of what I have been feeling... only with periods of near instanteous transformation then back to periods of gradual transformation. and so on... These times are changing rapidly.
This is what I have been feeling. That's my two cents for what it is worth. LOL

fairyfarmgirl

[Sirius]

I must say I am unsure.

I used to be certain about 2012, then the question, do you believe it, or do you want to believe it took that away.

I guess I may be caught in a situation of believing in something that I also want to believe in?

Geographical cataclyisms / end of the world ideas do show a lack of founding and proof.

my GUT feeling is that big things will happen, but it won't be nesersealy an instantaneous reality shift.

In ways I can see the man made build up to 2012. Given the economy, which is seemingly preparing to bottom itself out could be one of the major changes of 2012. The abandonment of currency takes us haloooola closer to unity and creating a much more harmonious world. Most negativity comes from feelings of scarcity. If everthing was freely and equally avaliable to everybody, we would be on a much better path as a civilization.

Simply a place with telepathic communication evokes a world where nobody can lie.

There are numerous seemingly small things which make massive impacts on a global society when carefully considered.

2012 and the entire transitional period will phase in these 'gifts' one at a time. This way they are each valued alot more.

For instance give a young child a full toy box he will go through the entire contents looking for the best toy, dismissing the other 'not as cool' stuff as unessersary. This child then lacks the experience (required?) for that toy.
Give a young child 1 toy every 2 weeks, each time he gets a new toy he plays with it before getting bored after a little while, but he has played with all of his toys individually, and is alot more aware of what toys he has.

The persuit of wealth comes to an end at the very least, this is what I hope for 2012.

Love and Light

---

This is along the lines of what I have been feeling... only with periods of near instanteous transformation then back to periods of gradual transformation. and so on... These times are changing rapidly.
This is what I have been feeling. That's my two cents for what it is worth. LOL

fairyfarmgirl

I was told once by Spirit that there will be times where seemingly nothing is happening, but to rest assured these periods have uses, and the accelerated periods will always return.

This was said in relation to my own Spiritual Growth, after a time of incredable awakening. There would be no reason this is not what is happening on a global scale. Microism/Macroism.

Love and Light ^^

[Bring4th_Steve]

The 500 year period seems a bit extensive to me. I have long resonated with the idea that our children are "wired up" to handle the energies of 3rd and 4th density. They are the ones that will be moving into true 4D. And they will be having children that are born within 4D, not 3D. So that means their kids cannot have any 3D light left in them, since it will be exhausted by the time they are born.

With no other 3D beings around except the children we now have that are wired for both densities, we would have to assume our kids would live to be 500 years old, which I don't feel is within our capability at this time. For me, I feel like the transition will only be around for 150 years, at most.

Just some ideas from the gut!
Steve

[CheckerFan]

I apprehend the cilia and you can accept your animosity afore 3rd body activity is absolutely gone.


_________________
offshore staffing solutions

[Brittany]

In all honesty, I don't even want to know what the future holds. I'd rather it come up and surprise me like a big adventure. I feel like, no matter WHAT happens in 2012, how we continue handling the situations we're engaged in, whether they be cataclysmic or just another day at the office, is more important than the actual state of our bodies and the world around us. I'd like to think of it as an opportunity to grow, regardless of what actually goes down on that specific day. I agree with many of you that a lot of the stuff getting spread around is likely hype designed to create panic and paranoia, but even if the world ended tomorrow, I don't see why that would change the way I've been doing things. Opening up to this way of life has given me confidence in the future, even though I have no idea what it holds, and that is such a great comfort to me.

[Lakewolf]

Ah... this gives me insight as to what I remember from "Before".

The phrase "Don't get lost in Transit" was repeated over and over...and over and over.

I know I'll be going Home. I just hope I reach as many people here as I possibly can.

There are only two things left to happen here before I go home.

I guarantee you, if I ever do this again, I will PAY ATTENTION to what I'm told, and not do THIS again:

Me (propping feet up on desk): You're nuts. No place could EVER be that crazy and continue
to exist!

Instructor (shaking her head): You'd better pay attention! You need this info to survive.


Thank the All that I retained memories from Before when I got here.
I have learned a VERY important lesson about arrogance...

---

Oops...

I thought this forum was primarily for wanderers.

Please accept my sincerest apology if I came off on any thread as arrogant in any way.

Love,

Lakewolf

[Wildcat]

On the subject of the vegan proselytizer earlier in the thread (post #187):

Others in this thread have expressed their belief that plants have awareness, spirits, etc. From there, it is not much of a leap to say that plants experience fear and pain. Taking this into account, why would the killing/eating of 2D animals be any more or less destructive than the killing/eating of 2D plants?

Does PandaB believe that plants are worth less than animals and thus can be ripped from the ground or cut down without the same negative karma? I am genuinely curious as this seems to be a doublestandard to me.

For the record, I'm an omnivore and eat whatever I feel like eating (with some attention to fat/cholesterol/perservative content). I'm inclined to resist the type of dogmatic preaching done by PandaB back in post #187.

IMHO, the message of "eat plants only or you will destroy the earth" does not resonate with the Law of One.

---

On the subject of 2012 speculation, my current thought is that we may have been on a path towards epic earth change destruction at one time. The channelers and remote viewer-types were seeing that possible future back in the 90's and getting on Art Bell to scare everyone into hoarding MRE's and finding their "safe zone" in preparation for the imminent pole shift/asteroid hit/coronal mass ejection extinction level event.

But we have collectively changed that path I think towards one of a much less destructive transition. Ra said the transition could be 100-700 years because the actual time period was up to us and how fast we got with the program.

Ra also said that in order to move to 4D, the physical 3D body must die. (Ra seemed to think this was no biggy... easy for Ra to say, right?) So we know that in order to graduate, we have to first physically die. Now the question becomes, will we die of the same stuff we die of now (cancer, heart attack, car wrecks, plane crashes, wars, etc)? Or will we all die instantly at the same time because of something we cannot foresee like an energetic event which we have no frame of reference for?

If you subscribe to the idea of ancient civilizations like Lemuria and Atlantis, then there is precedent for massive global upheaval wiping out large populations.

So, I'm still torn between the Big Event and the Gradual Change camps. I can see both existing together and some combination of the two occurring. Although, admittedly, the Big Event definitely makes for more entertaining reading - especially as offered up by David Wilcock with the government/black-ops secrecy, alien looking glass technology, alien humans from 47,000 and 52,000 years in the future coming back to our time, etc. Great stuff! (Hey, I think the TV show "V" starts tonight!)

[fairyfarmgirl]

Today is the release of the 2012 disaster movie in the US and in many other countries. We respectfully ask for your help in offering an alternative view as presented in our own video message from Grandfather Cirilo, called 2012 - Apocalypse or New Sun? It is now posted on the Shift of the Ages site and on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcaez8jn2Zg

This is our call to all Ambassadors and supporters of the Maya to help spread the message of hope and unity to the four corners of the Earth. Please immediately watch and comment on our 2012 video clip and then share it with your friends and colleagues on Facebook, Twitter, MySpace and so on. We are in the process of creating a publicity and media campaign that will take our messages to the mainstream media.

[Peregrinus]

Ra also said that in order to move to 4D, the physical 3D body must die. (Ra seemed to think this was no biggy... easy for Ra to say, right?) So we know that in order to graduate, we have to first physically die. Now the question becomes, will we die of the same stuff we die of now (cancer, heart attack, car wrecks, plane crashes, wars, etc)? Or will we all die instantly at the same time because of something we cannot foresee like an energetic event which we have no frame of reference for?

Dying is easier than being born, and everyone here did that. I see it also as no biggy, as it will happen at some time in this incarnation. Statistics prove 100% of all people die.

The important part is that you truly live. I always liked the quote from the movie Braveheart "All men die. Not all men live". This rings true for so many on this planet.

I am not sure f the date is exactly correct, but I expect we will see a large blue star (cosmic center) and a longer period of night than normal. During this time of night, we will become confused, slip off to sleep, and awake with our mother and father guides in preparation for going to the light. No biggy.

[ayadew]

It's completely harmless to die...

[Peregrinus]

We are not weak, sinful, shameful human creatures who have to somehow earn the right to become Spiritual. We are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. ~Robert Burney

[ayadew]

We are not weak, sinful, shameful human creatures who have to somehow earn the right to become Spiritual. We are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. ~Robert Burney

fantastic

[thomas]

Let's see, it's December 22nd, 2012. Nothing is different; nothing has changed. There are no signs that anything at all is happened. People who had put any credence in 2012 doomsday are busy trying to rationalize to themselves why it didn't happen. Countless channelers and "ascended masters" will have been discredited. In the long run, things will cool down untli the next "prophet" comes along with a new date, and the entire process will be repeated. Does this sound cynical? It shouldn't. It has been repeated over and over probably for the past 75000 years. In this way, the 4D negatives keep the upper hand. Is this about to change? I hope Ra is right, but I'm not even sure about that. However, if it does change, it won't be on 12/21/2012. 100-700 years is the window we're looking at. It's nothing to get excited about right now. Me personally? I'm not planning to make any big changes right away.

[sylverone]

We can think of it like a birthday. It is an absolute fact that a birthday marks the acculmulation of one more year (or four for leap-year folks). Does that mean that there's going to be a party at the exact moment the clock strikes the hour? The answer depends on who is involved with planning! It could be a surprise party, or it could be the party we have been expecting, or there might be none at all.

So, assuming that 2012 marks a special point akin to a "coming of age", what should we be doing if we want a party? We don't know if our "elders" in higher realms, or even nature itself, has a surprise party planned for us, but we've been given some cryptic clues. Why not be ready for a party, and invite as many as we can? Even if there is no surprise, we can still have a celebration then. Let's just be very flexible in our planning. You can still celebrate, even if it rains.

Of course, as ever, the party is here and now. If we want to help create the special event, we will do what we feel is the appropriate work here and now, and this is fine. Party on!

Concerning me personally, I would like to share an experience. When I was younger, I was simply standing, looking at a bookcase (rather, its contents), and a sudden intuitive thought came to me. Essentially, I "felt" that "end times" would come in my lifetime. I have no real evidence, but I have felt that something "special" is going to occur. But hey, a party is a party, and if there's no party, I'm not going to sit around moping. Life is too interesting for that. In the mean time, I can focus on learning my "dance steps". That way, party or no party, I'll be dancing anyway, and I can help those who wish to dance as well!

[Life]

Hi...
I intuit that although ... there may be a continuation of life on gaia as we know it, that there may also be a nano-second in which we face our "higher" self, as at death, and then chose whether or not to return to planet earth 3rd density, as it moves to 4th density, move on to 4th density or move on to our natural home density according to our light quotient.

[ayadew]

Hi...
I intuit that although ... there may be a continuation of life on gaia as we know it, that there may also be a nano-second in which we face our "higher" self, as at death, and then chose whether or not to return to planet earth 3rd density, as it moves to 4th density, move on to 4th density or move on to our natural home density according to our light quotient.

It's my deep desire to stay on earth and tend/heal it until all that we have done to harm it's vibration is gone. I study all it's doings currently (geology) and I try to get deeper in touch with it through the red energy center chakra. Our mother earth is alive.
If this can happen as I wish it, life will indeed continue for a while but those staying here (graduating) will get increasingly aware of 4th density as the planet transforms into this vibration and gain power/understanding in relation to this and finally all be total part of 4th when the planet also is 4th.

[litllady]

I dont worry myself much with any date. Trying to heal the Earth while being here and if I need to come back here....that is what I will do. I believe to move on to another density I will have to 'die' in this body.

I feel the things that people are looking for to happen with the date of 2012 are really happening right now and will be happening. I think its more that now is a time of choice....we can see many many people seeking this 'choice' of what they feel they need to do.

I think its a great time to be here on Earth! I feel honored to be here in the ''now".

I do think that at death...we will have a 'overview' and will relearn anything that we have 'forgotten'. If Earth is still needing healing and guidance...I have made the choice already to come back here rather then moving 'on' somewhere else. Does that mean I choose to come back to 3D? Im not sure...I just want to be where I can serve my other selves that are in need.

I think focusing on a date can cause someone stress and fear. I dont think that focusing on a 'date' allows us to fully live in the now. I worry that people will be disappointed if 2012 comes and goes and we are all still here. I also feel that if a being is worried about their 'own' ascension....this may distract them from really being service to others. Therefor....I choose not to worry about my own ascensions......but everyone elses progress of service to others and how I can show others that this way of life is the base of love for the truest self.

Mabey I dont worry about a date to protect my own mentality. Not sure.

Much love,
Lynette

[ExperiencedGhost]

However it may turn out I know that I'll face my physial death with dignity and proud of what I acomplished with myself.
Further I want to point out that the Mayans never said that the big shift would be on dec. 21, 2012 but that the cycles are coming together at that date. There's a window for the shift to happen between october 24, 2007 and somewhere in 2015. A time of 7-8 years.

There is a video of Drunvalo Melchizedek who was in contact with the Mayans for a special mission. You can hear him say this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRNZquobh...re=related
You shoud watch everything, start : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcdVU3XD2vY (This first part is with dutch translations (not me) because it seem that everywhere the first part was deleted because of a certain copyright).
Part 2 : (without dutch translations) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWixQ2RMddQ and than the rest from here.
It's a little long but interesting. But he does explain things !