Session 35 - Abraham Lincoln Walk-In - Wrong Date!

[Steppingfeet]

I didn’t intend to contaminate a Ra forum with other channeled material,

Too late. Inroads of contamination made.

: )

This is not to say that the past is so malleable that we can “choose” the one where Truman did not drop the bomb.  We live in a consensus reality and the fact is that we, you me and everyone else, have collectively chosen the past where the bomb did drop.  So as a practical matter, on the macro level, there is only one past.  I was only explaining why entities outside our collective 3d physical reality might legitimately describe other “pasts” to us when they channel because from their vantage point there are multiple pasts that they can see.

I can understand that perspective.

I don't grasp the theorized workings of parallel realities, but were they to exist in tangible form, I could understand how, from that perspective, there are multiple pasts. But within any one give reality or timeline, it makes sense that there can only be, as you say, "one past."

And definitely: those outside our particular configuration of space/time must have a hellofa time trying to navigate our spatial-temporal coordinates. Though Ra nevertheless managed to do a most impressive job.

The past works in the same way.  In everyday life, we all accept one past (like Newtonian physics) but in actuality the past is subjectively chosen out of a multitude of possible pasts (like quantum physics).

Stop trying to blow my mind!

While macro events (crucifixion, dropping atomic bombs, the holocaust) are consensus fixed, the fluid probabilistic actual nature of the past is incredibly useful at the micro level.  Seth describes how to (essentially) change your own personal past to achieve healings.  Seth also describes how we can slide between consensus realities.  But since we are always ending up in a reality where everyone else believes the same thing that we believe, it doesn’t seem like we have shifted.

I read The Nature of Personal Reality and a second Seth book many years ago but the memory is quite dim. Though Seth had plenty of commentary on our space/time, incarnate reality, I wonder if perspectives like these are more applicable to his/her presumably time/space realm.

At any rate, I don't know enough to comment further.

Subjective perception is another rational explanation.  I agree.  It’s just not what Seth taught.  I have explored the Seth explanation, experienced personal reality shifts, and find it psychologically true, i.e. my inner truth-sense validates its authenticity.  If you are interested in exploring it, the Seth Material is the place to go.  There are forums and groups analyzing Seth in exactly the same way we analyze Ra here.  It is quit trippy.

If only there was time . . .

Whether or not I am operating, as your analogy goes, at the Newtonian level, I cannot say, but another colossal stumbling block for my consideration of this theory is this: an individual is an inextricable part of a collective.

Were an individual alone and isolated on their own planet, I could more readily see them being able, somehow, to actually change past objective events. But as an individual is necessarily situated in a context of great millions of other individuals, we are all interconnected, the greater collective entity dependent upon the placement and activity of its constituent parts.

Example: You made a horrible mistake two years ago by ending a relationship. So, you shift the past to not make that mistake and you are now back in the relationship? What of the two years between? What of all the people affected by that break up, the the different path your former partner took?

What if you drove away that day heated and got into an accident with another car, injuring another person. What, then, of their path?

The only way this makes any sense to me is if one timeline is completely, somehow, abandoned, and another timeline adopted. However, what, then of the abandoned timeline and the effect of ones departure from it upon everyone else?

Please know that I do not mean to attempt to invalidate your own personal experience. Who am I to speak for or against what you have discovered to be true through the laboratory of your own life experience.

Here is a head twister for you.  Seth and Ra agree on the nature of the Higher Self, it can be viewed from our perspective as our future self.  Fine and dandy.  But as the Higher Self interacts with its past selves (you and me and everyone) it changes the past.  Seth confessed, in the later books, to being Jane Robert’s future self.  And yet, at the same time, he said that he was different when he was Jane.  !!!

My mind was not meant to bend so far out of alignment.

Within the Law of One system one could say not that the higher self, itself, changes the past, but rather the incarnate entity chooses its path on a moment-to-moment basis with assistance and resources from the higher self.

This is a recursive looping relationship.  Each time you or I advance to become our Higher Self, and we go about the task of “helping” our past self, we create a different past self.  And then when that new past self advances on to become a future Higher Self, and he helps his past self, he creates yet another version of the past self.  Ad infinitum.

In that sense I could see that the higher self "changes" the past, but only as a function of the free will of that past self, the principal actor upon the stage. But nevertheless what you describe above is truly mind-bending.

I take enormous comfort in the fact that both past and future are probabilistic and in the existence of the multi-verse.  Because it means that the tiny spark of the creator known as “me” gets to explore all that I could want to explore in each lifetime.  Unlike the “choose your own adventure” approach of a single linear time, I get to explore all the options in the book.  Many “me’s” get to explore each branch.  I don’t have to regret past choices because I know that I am (100% absolute certainty) also exploring all those roads not taken.

That is a thought that tickles the senses.

But then what of sacrifice? The necessary releasing or giving up of something desired in order to serve? Through these parallel/multiple experiences, does one, then, get to hang onto every possibility? Would that not diminish the importance of choice? In choice we must necessarily release one way to embrace another. That's the whole point of it. We cannot have it both ways.

But, I speak of things outside my understanding and experience. At least my understanding in this particular version of me . . . : )

[Steppingfeet]

I think I can partially reconcile this, or at least muse for a bit about something I've been pondering lately since I'm something of a history geek.

 
Though I don't have even 2% the breadth of knowledge I would like to have regarding history, we are kindred spirits.
 
 
 

More or less, I think our history is becoming less probabilistic as technology advances.  It's really only in the last 200 years that we've developed technologies - photography, audio recording, film, and now digital recordkeeping - which allow a truly permanent record of times go by.  And because we now fill our lives with artifacts proving our own past, it makes it all but impossible for anyone to seriously believe that Truman didn't drop the bomb.  We have a bazillon pictures of the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay and Hiroshima and shadows laminated to walls and all that.  It's effectively undeniable.
 
And since reality is largely consensus-based, that means our recent history has basically become fixed.  It can't be fluid because we've developed systems which prevent it from being fluid.

 
An interesting and creative proposition.
 
 

But if you go back much further than the 1800s, and suddenly things start getting fuzzy, really quickly.  And once you go back before the invention of printing presses, history really does start getting probabilistic, at least from our point of view.  Actually getting what records exist to actually line up in some sort of comprehensible way is ridiculously difficult.  Even the birth and deaths of incredibly major figures in history are often questionable.

 
Why would this not simply be a case of paucity of documentation? Does the partial or complete absence of recorded media necessarily mean that the past is probabilistic?
 
 

Ricdaw brought up Jesus, who lived during the Roman times, and the Romans loved bookkeeping.  But historians can't even agree on whether he lived at all, much less when and which of the Biblical accounts are correct.  They pretty much just play the odds.  Even though most believe there was a Historical Jesus of some kind, what he "actually" did is almost totally up for grabs.  For that matter, it's the same with the prophet Mohammed.  The early Arabs\Muslims were INCREDIBLY obsessed with keeping records of things, and there are even a few mentions of Mohammed in writings from various other groups around that time...  but we can't seem to get the dates to quite line up.  Other historians point at documents which suggest he may have lived a few decades later than traditionally thought, or may not have even originally lived in the Mecca area.

 
Great example.
 
So here was have a case where the documentation is either lacking, or conflicting, or fabricated, or confused.
 
Yet, Ra takes a moment to say that our records of what transpired in one particular moment of this entity's life do not capture what actually happened. Pointing to a fixed past:
 
 

75.14 The “Hosanna,” as it is termed, and the following “Benedictus,” is that which is the written summation of what was shouted as Jehoshua came into the place of its martyrdom. The general acceptance of this shout, “Hosanna to the son of David! Hosanna in the highest! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” by that which is called the church has been a misstatement of occurrence which has been, perhaps, unfortunate for it is more distorted than much of the so-called Mass.
 
There were two factions present to greet Jehoshua, firstly, a small group of those which hoped for an earthly king. However, Jehoshua rode upon an ass stating by its very demeanor that it was no earthly king and wished no fight with Roman or Sadducee.
 
The greater number were those which had been instructed by rabbi and elder to make jest of this entity, for those of the hierarchy feared this entity who seemed to be one of them, giving respect to their laws and then, in their eyes, betraying those time-honored laws and taking the people with it.

 
 

Between the problems with accurate timekeeping at the time, the problems of dating documents we find, the fuzziness of people's eyewitness accounts, and the propensity of historians of the past to lie through their teeth for political reasons, the vast majority of history prior to 1500 or so is basically a big foggy cloud with only occasional patches of visibility.

 
That is most assuredly true! And well said. 
 
 

Same day, but we have utterly conflicting memories of how it happened.

 
Now you raise a whole new question: is APeacefulWarrior unknowingly practicing teleportation?
 

[Jade]

Why would this not simply be a case of paucity of documentation? Does the partial or complete absence of recorded media necessarily mean that the past is probabilistic?

I believe the past is probablistic. Ra even speaks of this within our written history:

35.4 Questioner: I would now like to ask for the same type of information with respect to Adolf Hitler. You have given a little of this already. It is not necessary to re-cover what you have already given, but if you could complete that information it would be helpful.

Ra: I am Ra. In speaking of the one you call Adolf we have some difficulty due to the intense amount of confusion present in this entity’s life patterns as well as the great confusion which greets any discussion of this entity.

Ra cannot speak upon this subject, even though he is dead (is he?), because there is "intense confusion present in this entity's life patterns".

I believe they have the same problem with Jesus, ironically since you brought up the quote about the Hosanna. Ra only speaks about well known Jesus parables. This one Ra speaks of specifically because of Carla's attachment to it, i.e. the fact that she resonates with this moment as the moment of Jesus' ultimate choice of martyrdom. Here is the follow up to the Hosanna quote:

75.15 Questioner: The chink then, as I understand it, was originally created by the decision of Jesus to take the path of martyrdom? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in relation to this instrument, quite correct. It is aware of certain over-balances towards love, even to martyrdom but has not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions. We do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. It is an example of love which has served as beacon to many.

For those who seek further, the consequences of martyrdom must be considered, for in martyrdom lies the end of the opportunity, in the density of the martyr, to offer love and light. Each entity must seek its deepest path.

I think in this instance we can't take what Ra says to be a rewrite of a fixed past but actually offering a reinterpretation of a parable to Carla. For instance, many people strongly believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross and lived our a life and had offspring. Seth says that Jesus was actually 3 separate incarnate beings that created one event. I mean, the whole of the crucifixion could be what Ra refers to as the "misstatement of occurrence". But what it seems to me that Ra is actually referring to is the glorification of the martyr by the church, which has been done in a distorted way, and which is one of Carla's main downfalls.

However, Ra does speak of events being "recorded" - this, I'm assuming, being the big gestalts that end up in the Akashic, that reverberate. The minor, mutable ones (for instance, "earth changes") are what Ra avoids discussing:

23.16 Questioner: Thank you. Now, I understand, if I am correct, that a South American contact was also made. Can you tell me of the, approximately the same question I asked about your contact, with respect to the attitude or— about the contact, and its ramifications, and the plan for the contact, and why the people were contacted in South America?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final full question of this session. The entities who walked among those in your South American continent were called by a similar desire upon the part of the entities therein to learn of the manifestations of the sun. They worshiped this source of light and life.

Thus, these entities were visited by light beings not unlike ourselves. Instructions were given and they were more accepted and less distorted than ours. The entities themselves began to construct a series of underground and hidden cities including pyramid structures.

These pyramids were somewhat at variance from the design that we had promulgated. However, the original ideas were the same with the addition of a desire or intention of creating places of meditation and rest, a feeling of the presence of the One Creator; these pyramids then being for all people, not only initiates and those to be healed.

They left this density when it was discovered that their plans were solidly in motion and, in fact, had been recorded. During the next approximately three thousand five hundred [3,500] years these plans became, though somewhat distorted, in a state of near-completion in many aspects.

[YinYang]

Hmmm, I have to read some of these posts again, definitely a quantum leap in thinking, and I haven't dug too deeply into the Seth material, I do love it though, but what about this?

Ra: I am Ra. The planetary social memory complex, Maldek, had in common with your own sphere the situation of a mixture of energy direction. Thus it, though unknown, would most probably have been a mixed harvest—a few moving to fourth density, a few moving towards fourth density in service to self, the great majority repeating third density. This is approximate due to the fact that parallel possibility/probability vortices cease when action occurs and new probability/possibility vortices are begun.

I am not referring to our knowledge of past events (which is always shaky), I am referring to one version of events in a life playing out due to choices made and action taken.

[Jade]

Hmmm, I have to read some of these posts again, definitely a quantum leap in thinking, and I haven't dug too deeply into the Seth material, I do love it though, but what about this?

Ra: I am Ra. The planetary social memory complex, Maldek, had in common with your own sphere the situation of a mixture of energy direction. Thus it, though unknown, would most probably have been a mixed harvest—a few moving to fourth density, a few moving towards fourth density in service to self, the great majority repeating third density. This is approximate due to the fact that parallel possibility/probability vortices cease when action occurs and new probability/possibility vortices are begun.

I am not referring to our knowledge of past events (which is always shaky), I am referring to one version of events in a life playing out due to choices made and action taken.

I always assumed that quote spoke of a possible future and not of the past, i.e. the potential future of Maldek (natural harvest at the end of the cycle) ceased to exist when they blew up their planet. I think that means certain ones cease to exist, not that all other vortices cease to exist. Ra says that with action creates new possibility/probabilities. For instance, if I read a book about Hitler faking his suicide, possibility/probability vortices open up in my past that allow access to timelines where Hitler faked his death. What effect that would have on my physical reality in the present is probably next to nil, as he in theory would have went into hiding and avoided doing anything that would affect the planetary consciousness on a large scale. But it might have grand effects on my personal consciousness.

Of course, this is all speculation, but I'm definitely in the camp that most mundane events are mutable as far as whether they have occurred or not. The fact that humans have faulty memory supports this. We can create false memories, or forget that events even happened, consciously or unconsciously. Two people can experience the same event in the now moment and a day later have a completely different experience/memory of what happened. Anything beyond our own direct perception is mutable, and I actually assume that most historical accounts that we are told today have been drastically altered from their original, true events.

[YinYang]

Well, the way I understand the quote is like this, it mostly has to do with multiple possibilities/probabilities collapsing when a particular direction is taken. As an example, I am currently at a spot where I have a number of choices ahead of me; blue, red, yellow and green, I choose green and take action, so blue, red and yellow "cease" as possibilities, to use Ra's word. So if those 3 come to an end, and only green continues, then there is only one reality playing out, and not multiple realities. And that then applies to the past as well, if looked at from the future, because the others have collapsed.

This quote just popped into my mind as I was reading ricdaw's post about parallel realities, and multiple pasts. I'm not closed off to any such possibilities, or whether the choices not taken actually play out 'elsewhere', in other realities, I mean we all know that "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy", I just lean towards one version realising, due to choice and action, in our particular space/time, instead of many. "Changing" the past in your mind, as a therapeutic exercise using imagination to heal trauma or wounds must be effective, the mind is that powerful, but it doesn't change the consensus past.

And I'm with you on the memory thing, memory is a very interesting subject. I have read some bizarre cases about memory. Bring the mind into the picture, and the anomalies and variations that can occur are infinite.

[Jade]

Well, the way I understand the quote is like this, it mostly has to do with multiple possibilities/probabilities collapsing when a particular direction is taken. As an example, I am currently at a spot where I have a number of choices ahead of me; blue, red, yellow and green, I choose green and take action, so blue, red and yellow "cease" as possibilities, to use Ra's word. So if those 3 come to an end, and only green continues, then there is only one reality playing out, and not multiple realities. And that then applies to the past as well, if looked at from the future, because the others have collapsed.

This quote just popped into my mind as I was reading ricdaw's post about parallel realities, and multiple pasts. I'm not closed off to any such possibilities, or whether the choices not taken actually play out 'elsewhere', in other realities, I mean we all know that "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy", I just lean towards one version realising, due to choice and action, in our particular space/time, instead of many. "Changing" the past in your mind, as a therapeutic exercise using imagination to heal trauma or wounds must be effective, the mind is that powerful, but it doesn't change the consensus past.

And I'm with you on the memory thing, memory is a very interesting subject. I have read some bizarre cases about memory. Bring the mind into the picture, and the anomalies and variations that can occur are infinite.

I understand what you mean. My subsequent point is that just because you choose green, doesn't mean that red, blue, AND yellow necessarily cease to exist - green coexisting with red and blue might be a paradox, green coexisting with yellow may still be a possibility. Or maybe red and blue become purple and that vortex is available. In the quote Ra is talking about a very specific event - a harvest that did not occur for Maldek because they blew up their planet. I don't think all possibility/probability vortices are such an either/or.

And you're right about imagining that trauma may not have happened as being a healing modality - however, I think around these parts we refer to that as "spiritual bypassing" - not using spiritual knowledge to actually engage in catalyst, but instead avoid it. If I negate all of the trauma in my past, then I lose that "progress" I made in coping with that catalyst. If I choose to forget a specific trauma that say, occurred between my mother and I, and in turn she also forgets that she perpetrated this trauma, doesn't the "consensus reality" of that event then change?

[ricdaw]

Whether or not I am operating, as your analogy goes, at the Newtonian level, I cannot say, but another colossal stumbling block for my consideration of this theory is this: an individual is an inextricable part of a collective.

Were an individual alone and isolated on their own planet, I could more readily see them being able, somehow, to actually change past objective events. But as an individual is necessarily situated in a context of great millions of other individuals, we are all interconnected, the greater collective entity dependent upon the placement and activity of its constituent parts.

Example: You made a horrible mistake two years ago by ending a relationship. So, you shift the past to not make that mistake and you are now back in the relationship? What of the two years between? What of all the people affected by that break up, the the different path your former partner took?

It’s important to divest yourself of the Hollywood depiction of time travel and consider the way that the past is changed:  by change to memory.  So rewriting your personal past is akin to adopting/replacing your current memories with different ones.  (Well, maybe the movie Total Recall is something to consider. . . ) So, what about the memories of other people?  
Let’s take your break-up example that was a “horrible mistake.”  It’s not that you undo the breakup (presto change, now you’re married to the person!) it’s that you rewrite your past, and forget that you were even in that relationship to begin with.  Erase the relationship, and you “fix” that problem of the “horrible breakup.”  This is entirely doable.

How would this play out, what with third parties having different memories and such?  First off, consensus reality will bend over backwards to help you be successful in your “rewrite” of the past.  In a way that is magical and awe-inspiring, you will somehow manage not to be confronted by contradictory information.  That means, once you have changed your past (not to ever have started that doomed relationship) you are exceedingly unlikely to ever see that person you dated ever again.  If necessary, say you are planning to go back to the home town where you were dating for a reunion, the universe will cancel airplane flights (“technical difficulties”) or you will lose your keys so you miss flights.  The other person will suddenly get busy and miss the reunion.  Or maybe relatives come to visit and the other person is suddenly sight-seeing with them and you never cross paths.  That’s how it works.  Okay, I guess there is another Hollywood movie to watch:  The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Now, this is not to say that the other person isn’t affected by your “fixed” past.  If the breakup was a BIG DEAL to you, but not to the other person, when you have successfully lost your emotional charge over it, it might be that the other person’s memories will change too.  The other person may someday be talking to a mutual friend, and that friend asks, “Hey, do you ever see GLB anymore?”  

“Who?”  

“You know, GLB?  You used to date?

“I don’t remember dating a GLB . . . .”  

And ------- reality shift complete!

The only way this makes any sense to me is if one timeline is completely, somehow, abandoned, and another timeline adopted. However, what, then of the abandoned timeline and the effect of ones departure from it upon everyone else?

That’s why we call it a “reality shift.”  Again, consider the universe to be a massive Super Computer that manipulates “events” as easily as you can manipulate small objects with your hands.  The Universe wants your revision to succeed and it will do whatever it takes to help it stick.  (In the vernacular of the day, “You Create Your Own Reality.”)

Some of the most powerful demonstrations of these time shifts, or “healings the past” can be seen in the elderly.  I can’t remember if it was here on this forum or elsewhere (NPR radio?), but someone was talking about their mom and the fact that she was getting so forgetful that she’d forget she was smoking a cigarette and it would fall to the floor around her chair.  The rug was looking like a pox of small burns.  The daughter was terrified that she’d catch the house on fire.  (Does anyone remember this?)  So daughter takes mom to the doctor to get her a patch to help her stop smoking.  The doctor asks mom, “so how many cigarettes do you smoke a day?”  “What?!” mom says, “I’ve never smoked a day in my life.”  So the daughter’s fix was to remove all ash trays from the house, and cigarettes, so that mom would not be reminded.  It was the last time mom smoked.  

We ignore these deviations in consensus history because we think the other person misremembered or has gone senile.  See how effective reality shifting is?  Even when you are confronted with direct information that is the opposite of what you believe to be true, we all still co-exist side by side and don’t really care.  We routinely gloss over and ignore these “glitches in the Matrix.”  (Okay, another Hollywood film to consider.)

The elderly can and do change the past, say when an abusive spouse dies.  (Much to the dismay of adult children who hear the surviving parent talk only good things about the newly departed even though they were there too and know better.)

Or maybe there are stories of the past, ones that you actually participated in, that are remembered totally differently.  As far as that person is concerned, they lived in a different past that you did.  Who’s to say who has the “real” memories of the event, eh?

The kind of proof that hit me was tangible stuff.  Say, for example, there was a picture of a past event.  You took it yourself.  It’s right there in the same photo album where it has existed since you got the photo printed.  Only you go back to the album, and the picture is not there.  It’s not like there is a blank spot where it used to be, it’s as if it was never in there at all.  Similarly, you go to the album and find the picture, but it is not at all like you remember it to be; it doesn’t actually depict the event you thought it did.  Zing!  

Reality shift happens.

[YinYang]

I understand what you mean. My subsequent point is that just because you choose green, doesn't mean that red, blue, AND yellow necessarily cease to exist - green coexisting with red and blue might be a paradox, green coexisting with yellow may still be a possibility. Or maybe red and blue become purple and that vortex is available. In the quote Ra is talking about a very specific event - a harvest that did not occur for Maldek because they blew up their planet. I don't think all possibility/probability vortices are such an either/or.

You're right, in Maldek's case there was no other possibilities left except a new planet, which doesn't apply to our "fluid" lives where there are so many variables, influences and entities involved, so I'm with you on the other possibilities not necessarily ceasing abruptly like in Maldek's case, and new vortices forming (purple).

And you're right about imagining that trauma may not have happened as being a healing modality - however, I think around these parts we refer to that as "spiritual bypassing" - not using spiritual knowledge to actually engage in catalyst, but instead avoid it. If I negate all of the trauma in my past, then I lose that "progress" I made in coping with that catalyst.

Agreed again, I don't do that, I think I work intensively through catalyst. I was referring to ricdaw's example where "Seth describes how to (essentially) change your own personal past to achieve healings." My memory is a curse I tell ya, there's very little I forget. Albert Schweitzer said "happiness is good health and a bad memory". He-he... I wish I had a bad memory.

If I choose to forget a specific trauma that say, occurred between my mother and I, and in turn she also forgets that she perpetrated this trauma, doesn't the "consensus reality" of that event then change?

I don't think so, since it still happened. That both of you forgot, doesn't change what happened.

[ricdaw]

If I choose to forget a specific trauma that say, occurred between my mother and I, and in turn she also forgets that she perpetrated this trauma, doesn't the "consensus reality" of that event then change?

I don't think so, since it still happened. That both of you forgot, doesn't change what happened.

Ahhhhhh.  But the cosmic consequence of both of you forgetting actually can alter the past.  What happens in addition to the "forgetting" is the creation of new past events and associated new past memories too.  So now you remember a great birthday party when you were 11, when actually that was one of the events that was ruined by a specific trauma on that day.   And that 11 year-old-you may also now have more new events and more new memories of day following, too, since the trauma of the birthday event itself was changed.  

All events are occurring simultaneously, the backward shift of the "forgetting" triggers a forward ripple of new events.

Since it is impossible to inventory the mind and all its memories (before I forgot my year looked like this, after I forgot it looked like that) you tend to confront a changed past by reading contemporaneous things like diaries, or going to past visited places and finding that they are changed in the physical.  That is where the head trip occurs, when you are confronted by a reality, a physical thing that you can see, touch or hold, and it is not at all like it is supposed to be.  It is a visceral and somewhat scary occurrence that usually only happens when you are seeking it out.  Like, say, you are reading Seth and you are curious about the mechanics of reality shifts.  So you manifest proof of them.  Universal feedback loop complete.

[YinYang]

Okay, I will just second Gary and say I can't invalidate your experience, but I think my past is pretty fixed. I am intellectually aware that we live in an "eternal present", and that linear time is a perception created by the illusion in order for us to "experience" progression and evolve, but I think I'll have to familiarise myself a little more with this concept in the Seth material.

It just simply hasn't been my experience, I've never experienced a "changed past", so I remain sceptical for now. I believe there is also something in the Seth material (correct me if I'm wrong) that says you can incarnate anywhere in the timeline at any time, and are not limited in your choice to the "current present" in earth's timeline, which I'm also not too so sure about. Because the ramifications of that are enormous.

What if I decide to go back to Atlantis to try and avert destruction and succeed, yet currently we have millions of ex-Atlanteans incarnated who is working out the karma of that time, now I've just changed it, so which reality takes preference? Mine, or the millions in the current spot on the timeline? And how will that landmass suddenly reappearing look like to the people "currently" here. Or I will go back to Don and them, and attempt to prevent his death, what about everyone's lessons that transpired as a result of how things turned out? You see how messy this can get?

I'm all for magical possibilities, but if it doesn't reflect experientially and it poses some problems, then I will have to put it on the "maybe" pile for now.

[Mahakali]

Okay, I will just second Gary and say I can't invalidate your experience, but I think my past is pretty fixed. I am intellectually aware that we live in an "eternal present", and that linear time is a sensation of the illusion in order for us to "experience" progression and evolve, but I think I'll have to familiarise myself a little more with this concept in the Seth material.

It just simply hasn't been my experience, I've never experienced a "changed past", so I remain sceptical for now. I believe there is also something in the Seth material (correct me if I'm wrong) that says you can incarnate anywhere in the timeline at any time, and are not limited in your choice to the "current present" in earth's timeline, which I'm also not too so sure about. Because the ramifications of that are enormous.

What if I decide to go back to Atlantis to try and avert destruction and succeed, yet currently we have millions of ex-Atlanteans incarnated who is working out the karma of that time, now I've just changed it, so which reality takes preference? Mine, or the millions in the current spot on the timeline? And how will that landmass suddenly reappearing look like to the people "currently" here. Or I will go back now to Don and them, and attempt to prevent his death, what about everyone's lessons that transpired as a result of how things turned out? You see how messy this can get?

I'm all for magical possibilities, but if it doesn't reflect experientially or pose some problems, then I will have to put it on the "maybe" pile for now.

If you go back in time and kill your grandfather, nothing will happen to you, because you exist already in the eternal present. Causality breaks down at that level, as time is just a form of energy.

[YinYang]

That is where the head trip occurs, when you are confronted by a reality, a physical thing that you can see, touch or hold, and it is not at all like it is supposed to be.

I walked through my primary school the other day, just for interestingness, and it was exactly as I remember it, same smells everything (freshly cut grass and sharpened pencils are among my favourite smells). It just looks a lot smaller when you're all grown up, I was watching them paint the new lanes for the athletic season, and the hundred meter distance looked so short to me, I remember it feeling like an endless distance when I was a sprinter.

[Billy]

I resonate more with Gary's perspective on this topic.  Does our past not make us who we are?  Experience shapes us and is the catalyst for new ways of perceiving and being.  With all of our choices being so linked, I can't really fathom the idea that you can change one without it effecting each and every other.  I'm not saying that it is impossible but it doesn't really bode well with me.  With 3rd density being a place of choice and limitation, it seems that a single fixed time-line is more appropriate for such an adventure.  This star trek quote is appropriate:

There are many parts of my youth that I'm not proud of... there were loose threads... untidy parts of me that I would like to remove. But when I pulled on one of those threads... it unraveled the tapestry of my life

[YinYang]

Maybe you are a dual-body, ricdaw, because your experiences sound to me like 4D experiences. Just something I thought of, since I'm rereading the material and I was just reading about dual-bodies a moment ago.

[Jade]

I resonate more with Gary's perspective on this topic.  Does our past not make us who we are?  Experience shapes us and is the catalyst for new ways of perceiving and being.  With all of our choices being so linked, I can't really fathom the idea that you can change one without it effecting each and every other.  I'm not saying that it is impossible but it doesn't really bode well with me.  With 3rd density being a place of choice and limitation, it seems that a single fixed time-line is more appropriate for such an adventure.  This star trek quote is appropriate:

There are many parts of my youth that I'm not proud of... there were loose threads... untidy parts of me that I would like to remove. But when I pulled on one of those threads... it unraveled the tapestry of my life

It's a grand paradox, indeed. But this is why acceptance is crucial - why feel the need to go around altering the past/future? Experience the present, and move on to the next present moment. I have no desire to rewrite or forget my past, but due to trauma, I have a lot of gaps in memory. My childhood is a long gray stretch punctuated by certain events. If I take those gray areas and find tiny little Jade and send her love in those dark moments that were worth erasing, some part of that experience is altered and the ripples carry forwards (and backwards). I'm not trying to insert false memories or experiences into my story. But then what happens, I believe, is that if further down the line, I have an event resurface as a memory that hasn't been thought about in a while - a true (?) memory - then maybe when it comes back up, I am able to look back on that experience with love and not pain. I'm able to retroactively find love in a difficult moment. And I think that affects all "times" in my experience.

[ada]

if i can sneak my way unnoticed *clears throat*, distortion.