Wanders and homosexuality

[Melinsky]

perhaps it's not about quantity of incarnations though.. but ratio....?

... so (ie if of 10 Earth lives the Wanderer has had 7 that are female and this life they are in male biology... they are homosexual...

.....or is it that all Wanderers are here on Earth for their first time (and only time)?

(I'm still learning...)

[Learner]

perhaps it's not about quantity of incarnations though.. but ratio....?

... so (ie if of 10 Earth lives the Wanderer has had 7 that are female and this life they are in male biology... they are homosexual...

In answer to 31.8, Ra said "many incarnations". So it's both the quantity and the ratio, but it's not a sufficient condition, just increase the probability/possibility. Other factors also comes into play, as Ra mentioned.

.....or is it that all Wanderers are here on Earth for their first time (and only time)?

(I'm still learning...)

Wanderers plan pre-incarnatively how many times they want to reincarnate here. So it's likely different for each wanderer.

70.15 Questioner: I think to try and clear up this point I’m going to ask a few questions that are related that will possibly enable me to understand this better because I am really confused about this and I think it is a very important point in understanding the creation and the Creator in general, you might say. If a Wanderer of fourth, fifth, or sixth density dies from this third-density state in which we presently find ourselves, does he then find himself in third-density time/space after death?
Ra: I am Ra. This will depend upon the plan which has been approved by the Council of Nine. Some Wanderers offer themselves for but one incarnation while others offer themselves for varying lengths of your time up to and including the last two cycles of 25,000 years. If the agreed-upon mission is complete the Wanderer’s mind/body/spirit complex will go to the home vibration.

[Melinsky]

well then you have your answer.. a wanderer can be gay/lesbian...

[Learner]

Thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread, good learning for me. It's my understanding now that wanderers can be homosexual if they have been incarnating here for a long time, or perhaps choose such preference to avoid sexual reproduction.

I figure that androgyny is Reality. That One Is All. And that therefore homosexuals are closer to Reality than the rest of us.
And that they were brave souls, agreeing to incarnate in societies where they may become a scorned minority.
So sure, they may or may not be Wanderers, here to experience and teach.
I am straight by the way, but I have a true respect for those who made this soul decision.

Perhaps it is worthwhile to examine the Q&As entirely:

31.8 Questioner: We have what seems to be an increasing number of entities incarnate here now who have what is called a homosexual orientation in this respect. Could you explain and expand upon that concept?

Ra: I am Ra. Entities of this condition experience a great deal of distortion due to the fact that they have experienced many incarnations as biological male and as biological female. This would not suggest what you call homosexuality in an active phase were it not for the difficult vibratory condition of your planetary sphere. (translation: having many incarnations as male and female is not the necessary condition for someone to be homosexual, the additional difficulty in the earthly environment makes it happen) There is what you may call great aura infringement among your crowded urban areas in your more populous countries, as you call portions of your planetary surface. Under these conditions the confusions will occur.

Ra's answer clearly indicated that, unlike the popular belief today, homosexuality is not something one was "born with". It is a "confusion" as a result of "infringement" during the incarnation. Many may feel uncomfortable with this because we have been indoctrinated with the idea (implicitly) that homosexuality (or other personal traits) is (only) acceptable because it is innate. There is still a lot to learn about love and acceptance unconditionally, the issue of homosexuality certainly provides many good catalysts for that learning.

The next question gives more detailed explanation.

31.9 Questioner: Why does density of population create these confusions?
Ra: I am Ra. The bisexual reproductive urge has as its goal, not only the simple reproductive function, but more especially the desire to serve others being awakened by this activity.

In an over-crowded situation where each mind/body/spirit complex is under a constant bombardment from other-selves it is understandable that those who are especially sensitive would not feel the desire to be of service to other-selves. This also would increase the probability of a lack of desire or a blockage of the red-ray reproductive energy.

In an uncrowded atmosphere this same entity would, through the stimulus of feeling the solitude about it, then have much more desire to seek out someone to whom it may be of service thus regularizing the sexual reproductive function.

The male and female seem each have its unique associations with archetypes of minds based on the teaching from the Tarot cards. I think it's likely that wanderers choose to be born male or female based on the archetypes associated with the biological polarity. The gender maybe associated with the archetypes wanderers want to learn/develop more during the incarnation, or associated with tools/abilities that will best assist them to accomplish what they want to do here on earth. I think it's unlikely that non-wanderer souls chose to incarnate as homosexuals, but they chose to incarnate in the gender despite the likelihood of becoming homosexuals, for it is important for them to learn/balance from the gender they are less familiar with (and it's courageous nonetheless).

[Nau7ik]

I'm homosexual and I consider myself a wanderer. I don't feel attached to the "identity" though. (As I wrote this a tiny little white feather landed in front of my face)

I don't think being homosexual and a wanderer are incompatible at all. First, because we have many incarnations as male or female. I love being a man, but I can easily tune into feminine energy. (Probably because I've had a lot of experience with it) And the Earth right now is very crowded. Ra's explanation makes sense.
(The poster above me detailed it excellently, thank you!)

I also don't fit in with the gay men who are Earth natives. I have yet to find a man who is a serious spiritual seeker who I can share my path with as companions. The sharing of one's life is not too common for gay men.

I feel like being homosexual is appropriate for me in this incarnation. It's serving me well on my path. (I don't want kids, I feel my child is my spiritual path) I also feel that the Union of male and female is sacramental. It's just not for me at this time on Earth.

**edit: I am reading the Law of One and came across a description that speaks to me about this topic:

32.9 Questioner: I am assuming from what we have previously looked at… we have on Earth today and have had in the past fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-density Wanderers. As they come into incarnation in the physical of this density for a period as a Wanderer, what types of polarizations with respect to these various rays do they find affecting them? Can you tell me that?
Ra: I am Ra. I believe I grasp the thrust of your query. Please ask further if this answer is not sufficient.

Fourth-density Wanderers, of which there are not many, will tend to choose those entities which seem to be full of love or in need of love. There is the great possibility/probability of entities making errors in judgment due to the compassion with which other-selves are viewed.

The fifth-density Wanderer is one who is not tremendously affected by the stimulus of the various rays of other-self and in its own way offers itself when a need is seen. Such entities are not likely to engage in the, shall we say, custom of your peoples called marriage and are very likely to feel an aversion to childbearing and child-raising due to the awareness of the impropriety of the planetary vibrations relative to the harmonious vibrations of the density of light.

The sixth-density, whose means of propagation you may liken to what you call fusion, is likely to refrain, to a great extent, from the bisexual reproductive programming of the bodily complex and instead seek out those with whom the sexual energy transfer is of the complete fusion nature insofar as this is possible in manifestation in third density.

[Chandlersdad]

I am gay and fit all the criteria of a Wanderer. When I read what Ra had to say on this, I burst out laughing. RA has admitted that "it" is not omniscient. In this matter, I think Ra is quite silly. I was raised on a farm in the midwest, and I knew I was gay by the time I was 9 years old. For Ra to suggest that homosexuality has anything to do with "urban influence or crowding" is ludicrous. It is innate. In fact, recent medical science suggests that in many cases a homosexual son is born to a woman who is nearing menupause. The womb "soup" of chemicals differs from that of a younger robust woman.

Perhaps the entity incarnating choses homosexuality as a catalyst to pry its identification away from the mainstream social and religious dogma of the time period. I tend to see this as why I am gay. Being gay in this historical period has been a first-hand experience in the arbitrary rules and stigmas attached to certain human behaviors. I have learned how irrational many of those rules are, being based on fear, superstition and even the need for a social scapegoat.

As a gay man, my focus has always been on LOVE, not sex. I have been in one monogamous marriage relationship for 39 years!! My husband/partner had a 6 year old daughter when we met. We raised her together and she has turned out to be an amazing tolerant kind compassionate human being, also seeing through the nonsense that marks much of human cultural rules.

Trust me. I have lived 64 years, and know that what the great and powerful Ra had to say on homosexuality may be linked more to what Carla thought, since all information must pass through the filter of her mind. I immediately thought of early studies on rat communities, where the male rats would resort to homosexuality when over crowded. Pray tell, is THIS where Ra got his bizarre notion that homosexuality was a product of overcrowding in large urban centers? Did Carla naively think that homosexuality only happens in large cities? Frankly, this entire embarrassing subsecton of a session illustrates the fragility of the information when applied to a subject I know all about from life experience. The only reason a lot of gay men have congregated in great cities is for mutual support and safefty, since small town America is not too kind to noncomformists of all types.

People. RA is NOT omniscient. The books relate one failure by the Confederation after another in contacts with Earth. They seem at times naive and ignorant. While there is great value to the information, gay people do NOT need yet another metaphysical reason to feel bad about themselves. Your acceptance of Ra's absurd proclamation on this issue may say a lot more about your lack of empathy and lack of information about the gay people living around you (often still in secret) than it does about homosexuality.

[Nau7ik]

Hey Chandlesdad,

I understand where you're coming from. I didn't understand what Ra said when I first read it. But from your story, Ra had said that green Ray energy transfer is possible within homosexual relationships. Green Ray transfer being quite rare within gay relationships (and from experience and observation I believe this to be true).

Ra isn't infallible. Ra has often made "mistakes" because of their relatively harmonious third density experience. Ra didn't experience much of what Earth has/is gone/going through.
Ra's answer could have been questioned further. I think Don was satisfied with Ra's answer. But Ra has much to say, and only speaks when asked. So we got a less than satisfactory answer, but we don't need A definitive answer. The looking within is quite helpful!

Homosexuality also seems to provide great catalyst for ourselves and others in opening the heart center in acceptance and understanding. Is this coincidence? I think not. (Think about it) There are no mistakes, only surprises

In conclusion, I believe that there is more to it than we can see. We have the veil of forgetting which makes it hard to see. From first hand experience, I understand the frustration with being a gay man and being a good loving person who just happens to be sexually attracted to the same sex. And the social prejudices and biases that are based in ignorance coming from the general population. Our third density isn't harmonious. and it is frustrating to be misunderstood for simply being who we are.

To bring it full circle, this is why we have wanderers incarnating on Earth: because Earth humanity is having a difficult time at harvest. Our experience is dealing with some truly positives, truly negatives, and then the vast sinkhole of indifference. Humans who don't take responsibility and do the work to activate the green Ray chakra of unconditional love and acceptance and understanding. We can lead a horse to water, but we can't make him drink.

[Chandlersdad]

Hey Chandlesdad,

I understand where you're coming from. I didn't understand what Ra said when I first read it. But from your story, Ra had said that green Ray energy transfer is possible within homosexual relationships. Green Ray transfer being quite rare within gay  relationships (and from experience and observation I believe this to be true).

Ra isn't infallible. Ra has often made "mistakes" because of their relatively harmonious third density experience. Ra didn't experience much of what Earth has/is gone/going through.
Ra's answer could have been questioned further. I  think Don was satisfied with Ra's answer. But Ra has much to say, and only speaks when asked. So we got a less than satisfactory answer, but we don't need A definitive answer. The looking within is quite helpful!

Homosexuality also seems to provide great catalyst for ourselves and others in opening the heart center in acceptance and understanding. Is this coincidence? I think not. (Think about it) There are no mistakes, only surprises

In conclusion, I believe that there is more to it than we can see. We have the veil of forgetting which makes it hard to see. From first hand experience, I understand the frustration with being a gay man and being a good loving person who just happens to be sexually attracted to the same sex. And the social prejudices and biases that are based in ignorance coming from the general population. Our third density isn't harmonious. and it is frustrating to be misunderstood for simply being who we are.

To bring it full circle, this is why we have wanderers incarnating on Earth: because Earth humanity is having a difficult time at harvest. Our experience is dealing with some truly positives, truly negatives, and then the vast sinkhole of indifference. Humans who don't take responsibility and do the work to activate the green Ray chakra of unconditional love and acceptance and understanding. We can lead a horse to water, but we can't make him drink.

I appreciate everything you said very much, and thank you for posting it However, I would disagree with you that green ray energy transfer is rare in gay relationships. I am 64 years old and lived most of my life in San Francisco, a gay mecca. One time I mentioned to a friend that I did not see much kindness or compassion in gay people. My friend asked me what I meant. I said that when I passed gay men on the street (in the Castro District where a lot of gay men lived) they were not friendly. My friend then said something that stuck with me for decades. He said "The streets of San Francisco are tough and hard, since it is a large city. But each individual you see may have a lot of love to give. They just do not display it on the street". Since then I have known hundreds of gay men. Some of them are very flaky people, but considering the hatred and lies they have to deal with their entire lives, I am surprised that more gay men aren't psychotically insane! But I have met a huge number of committed couples who are very much in love. Sexual orientation is irrelevant in terms of an individual's capacity to LOVE FREELY. Bear in mind that 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce within 5 years. That is not a very good track record for the sharing of love and a sense of service to others. In fact, I find a lot of heterosexual couples seem to have the attitude towards marriage of "What can I get out of it?" In other words, they have a service to SELF orientation towards marriage. This is bound to fail in a legal relationship that is assumed to be based on love for the other. LOVE IS NOT RARE IN GAY MEN. I know gay couples who have been together 50 years! Many gay men are partaking of legal gay marriage now. Let us hope their orientation is to "What can I GIVE to the relationship rather than What can I TAKE". I have found that many gay men have very large hearts. If they do not portray it in public, that is probably a protective mechanism.

[Chandlersdad]

Hey Chandlesdad,

I understand where you're coming from. I didn't understand what Ra said when I first read it. But from your story, Ra had said that green Ray energy transfer is possible within homosexual relationships. Green Ray transfer being quite rare within gay  relationships (and from experience and observation I believe this to be true).

Ra isn't infallible. Ra has often made "mistakes" because of their relatively harmonious third density experience. Ra didn't experience much of what Earth has/is gone/going through.
Ra's answer could have been questioned further. I  think Don was satisfied with Ra's answer. But Ra has much to say, and only speaks when asked. So we got a less than satisfactory answer, but we don't need A definitive answer. The looking within is quite helpful!

Homosexuality also seems to provide great catalyst for ourselves and others in opening the heart center in acceptance and understanding. Is this coincidence? I think not. (Think about it) There are no mistakes, only surprises

In conclusion, I believe that there is more to it than we can see. We have the veil of forgetting which makes it hard to see. From first hand experience, I understand the frustration with being a gay man and being a good loving person who just happens to be sexually attracted to the same sex. And the social prejudices and biases that are based in ignorance coming from the general population. Our third density isn't harmonious. and it is frustrating to be misunderstood for simply being who we are.

To bring it full circle, this is why we have wanderers incarnating on Earth: because Earth humanity is having a difficult time at harvest. Our experience is dealing with some truly positives, truly negatives, and then the vast sinkhole of indifference. Humans who don't take responsibility and do the work to activate the green Ray chakra of unconditional love and acceptance and understanding. We can lead a horse to water, but we can't make him drink.

I appreciate everything you said very much, and thank you for posting it  However, I would disagree with you that green ray energy transfer is rare in gay relationships. I am 64 years old and lived most of my life in San Francisco, a gay mecca. One time I mentioned to a friend that I did not see much kindness or compassion in gay people. My friend asked me what I meant. I said that when I passed gay men on the street (in the Castro District where a lot of gay men lived) they were not friendly. My friend then said something that stuck with me for decades. He said "The streets of San Francisco are tough and hard, since it is a large city. But each individual you see may have a lot of love to give. They just do not display it on the street".  Since then I have known hundreds of gay men. Some of them are very flaky people, but considering the hatred and lies they have to deal with their entire lives, I am surprised that more gay men aren't psychotically insane! But I have met a huge number of committed couples who are very much in love. Sexual orientation is irrelevant in terms of an individual's capacity to LOVE FREELY.  Bear in mind that 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce within 5 years. That is not a very good track record for the sharing of love and a sense of service to others. In fact, I find a lot of heterosexual couples seem to have the attitude towards marriage of "What can I get out of it?" In other words, they have a service to SELF orientation towards marriage. This is bound to fail in a legal relationship that is assumed to be based on love for the other. LOVE IS NOT RARE IN GAY MEN. I know gay couples who have been together 50 years! Many gay men are partaking of legal gay marriage now. Let us hope their orientation is to "What can I GIVE to the relationship rather than What can I TAKE".  I have found that many gay men have very large hearts. If they do not portray it in public, that is probably a protective mechanism.

Again, I do believe that Ra's rather ignorant comments about homosexuality came from Carla. The world has changed drastically in its understanding and acceptance (two key Ra words) of gay people. Carla came from an earlier generation that probably had the most crude image of gay people based on religious lies. The idea that homosexuality comes from crowded urban situations is so laughable that I almost threw the Ra books in the trash! There are several types of people who study Ra. There are those people who earnestly need something to believe in 100%. These are the type that would otherwise "cling to the old rugged cross" of Christianity in a very fundamentalist dogmatic fashion. For some reason, these people have rejected that belief system but wish to give the same unquestioning faith to Ra. Such people scare and bore me. They quote Ra verse by verse as if they are quoting a Bible. They are not open to the possibility that what Ra said on a human topic may be a crock of s***! (As the homosexuality session is). The other type person is like me. I have been exposed to many different metaphysical and spiritual belief systems in my life. I do not come to Ra for blind belief. I come to Ra for intellectual stimulation, to provide food for thought and nothing more. Even Ra said somewhere that we should take what works and dump the rest. I do not need an infallible voice form the cosmos to guide me. A major lesson of being gay is that such institutional voices are very often wrong. This includes Ra. However, I enjoy Ra for the intellectual challenge of understanding his point of view.

[Chandlersdad]

I'm homosexual and I consider myself a wanderer. I don't feel attached to the "identity" though. (As I wrote this a tiny little white feather landed in front of my face)

I don't think being homosexual and a wanderer are incompatible at all. First, because we have many incarnations as male or female. I love being a man, but I can easily tune into feminine energy. (Probably because I've had a lot of experience with it) And the Earth right now is very crowded. Ra's explanation makes sense.
(The poster above me detailed it excellently, thank you!)

I also don't fit in with the gay men who are Earth natives. I have yet to find a man who is a serious spiritual seeker who I can share my path with as companions. The sharing of one's life is not too common for gay men.

I feel like being homosexual is appropriate for me in this incarnation. It's serving me well on my path. (I don't want kids, I feel my child is my spiritual path) I also feel that the Union of male and female is sacramental. It's just not for me at this time on Earth.

**edit: I am reading the Law of One and came across a description that speaks to me about this topic:

32.9 Questioner: I am assuming from what we have previously looked at… we have on Earth today and have had in the past fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-density Wanderers. As they come into incarnation in the physical of this density for a period as a Wanderer, what types of polarizations with respect to these various rays do they find affecting them? Can you tell me that?
Ra: I am Ra. I believe I grasp the thrust of your query. Please ask further if this answer is not sufficient.

Fourth-density Wanderers, of which there are not many, will tend to choose those entities which seem to be full of love or in need of love. There is the great possibility/probability of entities making errors in judgment due to the compassion with which other-selves are viewed.

The fifth-density Wanderer is one who is not tremendously affected by the stimulus of the various rays of other-self and in its own way offers itself when a need is seen. Such entities are not likely to engage in the, shall we say, custom of your peoples called marriage and are very likely to feel an aversion to childbearing and child-raising due to the awareness of the impropriety of the planetary vibrations relative to the harmonious vibrations of the density of light.

The sixth-density, whose means of propagation you may liken to what you call fusion, is likely to refrain, to a great extent, from the bisexual reproductive programming of the bodily complex and instead seek out those with whom the sexual energy transfer is of the complete fusion nature insofar as this is possible in manifestation in third density.

The sharing of one's life with another is NOT rare with gay men. While many young gay men "play the field", many settle down into committed relationships. Perhaps one problem about spirituality common to gay men is that they do not realize there is an alternative to the options provided by American society. Generally, Christianity is seen as the only option. Since Christianity remains harsh and illogically hateful of gay people, many gay people leave Christianity. This is a classic case of throwing the baby (spirituality) out with the bath water (Christianity). Happily, I began studying metaphysics at a young age. I read the SETH books which broadened my view greatly. But if gay men do not seem spiritual, it is because our society's institutional spiritualism has cast them out. They are not wanted! Therefore, many gay men resign themselves to living without it. Yet, when I have discussed spirituality itself with many gay men, most have an INTERNALIZED spirituality, which is ultimately much more mature than merely having faith in a dogma. Such men feel aligned with a greater reality. As for LOVE, I think gay men have a tremendous capacity for love since they have a heightened feminine aspect that allows them to open up to love in ways that might be difficult for a straight man. Our culture lays a heavy trip on straight men to be hard, tough, and competitive. "Be a man" is said to them in terms of "toughen up". Being an American man does not usually include guidelines for being gentle, kind and caring (except perhaps towards children, the elderly, and a spouse). Gay men in contrast often have a desire to be loved and to love. This may, however, be deeply hidden under an armor of disdain and distance. Gay men have been hurt greatly by this society. They tend to form a hard casing around their heart. In a sense, gay men are often a form of abused child. My psychiatrist even said that I had a case of Post Traumatic Stress syndrome simply from being gay in this society, especially during my life time (1952 onward. When I was growing up there were NO depictions of gay people anywhere. I felt like the only gay person on the planet). So I ask you to be more kind to gay men in your thoughts. They are the walking wounded, and some react in dysfunctional ways. For example,. some overcompensate by acting superior to others and becoming judgmental (as they have been judged all their lives). But many have survived with an intact heart that yearns to love.

[anagogy]

I just wanted to inject something into this thread real quick in case anybody is not aware.

Ra did not say that aura infringement was the *ONLY* cause of homosexuality. It is just one of them (again, according to Ra). To my knowledge they didn't ask Ra what all the causes were, which, as with many things in this wonderful world we live in, I'm sure there are an absolute plethora of causal factors (genetic innate wiring obviously being among them, as well as possibly the amount of past lives spent living as the opposite gender).

They also said:

"31.11 Questioner: Timothy Leary, doing research, wrote that at the time of puberty, and up through that time, there is an imprint occurring on the DNA coding of an entity and that, for instance, sexual biases are imprinted due to early sexual experiences or some of the first sexual experiences of the entity. Does anything like this actually happen?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. Due to the nature of solitary sexual experiences, it is in most cases unlikely that what you call masturbation has an imprinting effect upon later experiences.

This is similarly true with some of the encounters which might be seen as homosexual among those of this age group. These are often, instead, innocent exercises in curiosity.

However, it is quite accurate that the first experience in which the mind/body/spirit complex is intensely involved will indeed imprint upon the entity for that life experience a set of preferences."

I would also submit the possibility that the Earth itself is affected by a certain amount of "aura infringement" and this is a natural part of its balancing process. What I mean by that is that in a world dealing with overpopulation, I think homosexuality is a natural balancing act for any given species when its population grows out of control. It is one of the earth's ways of balancing its population levels (I'm not saying this is always the case, but it is one of the myriad of mechanisms in my opinion). The earth is creating its own reality too, which affects the energies that comprise it, mentally, physically, and spiritually.

Just some thoughts to consider -- I'm not saying anybody is necessarily wrong about any particular opinion they hold.

[WanderingOZ]

Entities of this condition experience a great deal of distortion due to the fact that they have experienced many incarnations as biological male and as biological female
[/quote]

Ive allways been of the assumption that if you gay, it's because to many incarnations in a row have been of the same sex. Like if you do four as a woman, your sexual orientation is towards men. Next incarnation is as a male but you have been stuck doing womens work for four lives. So you are still a bit feminine and still find yourself attracted to the male form.

WanderingOZ

[Nau7ik]

Anagogy, thank you for posting that! I picked up on the material before and after Don's specific question. One could apply it in many different ways. And certainly I feel that the imprinting plays a part, for some at least.

Either way, from this threads discussion, the reasons are varied. And all is well.

None of us truly "know". So if something doesn't sound right, listen to your inner discrimination and leave it behind. The blue ray of discernment is subtle but powerful.