How Do STS's View Other Selves?

[neutral333]

As one who chooses to identify as STO, I can see other entities as sparks of the One Infinite Creator, as other versions of myself, as souls at various states of consciousness all seeking to reconnect with that creative infinity, etc.

I believe a fundamental, perhaps the most fundamental, chasm between STO and STS is the way in which others are viewed and their relationship to self.  When I try to fathom what STS sees when they view others, I have a difficult time - especially with the 4D and 5D.  Do they come completely from a place of fear where they see every other entity as a threat?  Do they have a destructive view towards creation and therefore try to get others to self-destruct?  Do they have a perverted or reverse view of human development and see destruction as the more expedient way to return to the Creator?  Are they so absorbed in their self to the point where they see others as their play things to get more for their self?  Is it simply a feeling of insecurity? In the words of Seinfeld, "What is the deal?"  What are your thoughts?

[anagogy]

The more polarized you become the more aware of truth you are.  Awareness of truth also, reflexively, and proportionately increases awareness of illusion.  The one contrasts the other.  Essentially, the line between the two becomes increasingly more obvious the more polarized you are.  The negatively polarized are just as aware of the ultimate nature of reality, and variety of ways in which you can view the self and creator, as the positively polarized are.  The only difference is, they simply *love* or favor illusion more than they love truth.  

Metaphysically, illusion is akin to darkness, while truth is akin to light.  They simply prefer the darkness, and the potentials illusion allows for (while, as I said, fully and consciously grasping the difference between falsity and truth).  If you think about it, it is not so foreign a concept to understand.  There is a *LOT* of potential pleasure in the illusion of being a separate self who has acquired so much power that they control all those in proximity to themselves.  Can you not see the appeal of living like a king?  The appeal of being waited on hand and foot?  Of getting whatever you want, whenever you want it, consequences be damned? It is all about power which is absolute control, whereas the positive path is about love or connection.

One path separates and exalts the personal egoic self, the other unifies the personal self with the greater collective self. One seeks pleasure in the outer world, and one seeks pleasure in the inner world.

I think a big part of consciously selecting which polarity you are involves seeing and understanding at a deep and visceral level, the appeal of both polarities. The choice has to become conscious.

[tamaryn]

This may be an insightful read for you. A case study shall we say following one in polarization:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4171

And the follow up:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=9702

[Turtle]

I think a big part of consciously selecting which polarity you are involves seeing and understanding at a deep and visceral level, the appeal of both polarities.  The choice has to become conscious.

Definitely

[ada]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

[anagogy]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

There is a difference between "service to self" and a service to others entity that withdraws from people who exude negativity. Even an STO being must engage in "rejection" in order to preserve their positivity occasionally. If they merged with everyone their positivity would be quickly squashed under the foot of those who simply want to control them absolutely. No polarization is "pure" at our level of existence. Even developing power isn't always an STS act because, again, developing self for selfish reasons is a far cry away from developing self for more eloquent integration with others.

[ada]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

There is a difference between "service to self" and a service to others entity that withdraws from people who exude negativity.  Even an STO being must engage in "rejection" in order to preserve their positivity occasionally.  If they merged with everyone their positivity would be quickly squashed under the foot of those who simply want to control them absolutely.  No polarization is "pure" at our level of existence.  Even developing power isn't always an STS act because, again, developing self for selfish reasons is a far cry away from developing self for more eloquent integration with others.

Could you define what type of STS are to referring to then?

[anagogy]

Could you define what type of STS are to referring to then?

My point was that often people think they are STS but they are really not. Surface behaviors are often deceptive.

[Jade]

The STS self sees itself as a grand being and has great love for that grand being. As a grand being, it sees everything else as a fragment of itself, a piece of itself to be categorized, strengthened, groomed, and subjugated. More and more the negative being sees an other self as part of their being, an extension to be manipulated for the highest output of performance, to glorify itself. The free will of the other does not matter because the free will of the negative being is paramount, their free will being the desire of subjugation of others. Luckily, the hierarchy of the negative polarity allows for constant competition and reshuffling, so they get to experience their pleasures and desires in an environment of their choosing.

The path of the negative adept is not "easier", in fact, it is deliberately harder. It may seem easier because that is one of the tricks that is played on us in 3D by the veil, that the negative is greater in more abundance than the positive. But the truth, is unity. So to follow the path of separation is harder because it is the path of distorted truth. It's a legitimate path and necessary and I'm not attempting to pass any judgement at all on the negative path. But to me, it seems more intuitive/easy to learn the process of letting go and allowing the Creator to unfold as It will than attempting to create some personal order out of the chaos.

[Minyatur]

I'd disagree with the notion that the STS path is anymore linked to illusions than truth. The STO path moves through illusions and works with them just as the STS path does.

Both path are illusonary, they're two sides of a paradox that takes time to solve. Each express a different focus of this duality of self being among other-selves.

[Reaper]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.

No, you are not.

Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me. 

This statement is contradictory. A follower of the "STS" path would never acknowledge the equality of others. It is imperative to see yourself as above, beyond and superior to others- different in a way that justifies exemption.

Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.

This means certain things about other people make you uncomfortable. This is orange and yellow ray blockage. Were you walking this particular path, as defined by Ra, you would be actively seeking out ways to use others to bolster your power and your image of yourself, not hiding from them. An STS adept needs social interaction in order to properly polarize, and in general these individuals are some of the most charismatic people you will ever meet.

I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being. 

Loving yourself is an important part of any effective path a person can walk. You can't properly love anyone else if you hate yourself. It is wonderful that you are developing self love, but this does not in any way make you STS. That path is defined by a willingness to manipulate and control others. Walk it, and you will inevitably hit a point where you must either hurt another person for your own gain or turn back. There is no getting around this. 

Question to the posters above.

Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

If you were truly STS, you wouldn't care. 

In my experience, the general approach to polarizing is flawed. I've seen countless people on both sides of the fence experiencing intense anxiety over trying to fit themselves onto a path that makes them uncomfortable or seems impossible. They fear not graduating as much as Christians fear hell, and this causes them to attempt forcing polarity, which is as counterproductive as one can get. 

I often say that consistency and discipline are highly important in polarizing, but I think both should be funneled into the discovery of the self- the separation of idle surface thoughts, fears and distractions from what you truly, deeply are inside. Even beginning to truly understand the Self is a monumental task- one that will require a lifetime of effort, but as that effort is consistently produced one will gradually find themselves guided naturally along the paths of behavior that are most beneficial to that Self. You will polarize without trying, because all you'll be doing is continually being yourself, and that which is no longer needed will naturally fall away. I think you will also find that the realm of spiritual development is far more complex and diverse than a black and white set of cookie cutter stereotypes.

STS is a fancy term for sociopath, and you don't strike me as one of those, Papercut. You don't need to wear that label just so you have a box to fit into. Boxes be damned.

[ada]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.

No, you are not.

Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me. 

This statement is contradictory. A follower of the "STS" path would never acknowledge the equality of others. It is imperative to see yourself as above, beyond and superior to others- different in a way that justifies exemption.

Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.

This means certain things about other people make you uncomfortable. This is orange and yellow ray blockage. Were you walking this particular path, as defined by Ra, you would be actively seeking out ways to use others to bolster your power and your image of yourself, not hiding from them. An STS adept needs social interaction in order to properly polarize, and in general these individuals are some of the most charismatic people you will ever meet.

I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being. 

Loving yourself is an important part of any effective path a person can walk. You can't properly love anyone else if you hate yourself. It is wonderful that you are developing self love, but this does not in any way make you STS. That path is defined by a willingness to manipulate and control others. Walk it, and you will inevitably hit a point where you must either hurt another person for your own gain or turn back. There is no getting around this. 

Question to the posters above.

Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

If you were truly STS, you wouldn't care. 

In my experience, the general approach to polarizing is flawed. I've seen countless people on both sides of the fence experiencing intense anxiety over trying to fit themselves onto a path that makes them uncomfortable or seems impossible. They fear not graduating as much as Christians fear hell, and this causes them to attempt forcing polarity, which is as counterproductive as one can get. 

I often say that consistency and discipline are highly important in polarizing, but I think both should be funneled into the discovery of the self- the separation of idle surface thoughts, fears and distractions from what you truly, deeply are inside. Even beginning to truly understand the Self is a monumental task- one that will require a lifetime of effort, but as that effort is consistently produced one will gradually find themselves guided naturally along the paths of behavior that are most beneficial to that Self. You will polarize without trying, because all you'll be doing is continually being yourself, and that which is no longer needed will naturally fall away. I think you will also find that the realm of spiritual development is far more complex and diverse than a black and white set of cookie cutter stereotypes.

STS is a fancy term for sociopath, and you don't strike me as one of those, Papercut. You don't need to wear that label just so you have a box to fit into. Boxes be damned.

Excessive judgment.
You are analyzing a being through tiny shards of information you've got on the wide-web, not knowing the whole picture. Pinpointing your assumption based on your belief that you are correct without a doubt. Let me ask you this Reaper, are you god?

[mattschryer]

I look at it like this, do you take responsibility for everything you see, think, feel, and do, or do you project blame and pass responsibility onto others so that the cause of how you feel can remain beyond what you define yourself and your power to create to be? The power manipulation and control people often speak about related to the STS path is just a natural effect of a reality in which one passes responsibility for how they feel onto others. example - I'll be happy when you do this, or I'm angry because you made me angry, vs I'll be happy because its who I am, or I'm angry because I'm dissapointed with something within myself that I'm seeing reflected through you. STO sees itself as the cause of how it perceives others, and STO changes itself so as to affect change in its environment. STS sees itself as the effect of how others view it, and therefor STS manipulates and changes it's environment in order to justify and allow for desired changes to occur within itself.

[Aloha]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that :s

The Law of One is available to all seekers...I see this as the individual soul's goal to balance self empowerment (STS) and cooperation (STO). If the soul has no distortion toward manipulation and exploitation then perhaps it is not STS after all? One needs only to be 51% STO/cooperative in order to "graduate," with this "class," not 100%. Even 5th and 6th density have some polarity. Yet, as they point out, it is hard to move a big boulder up a steep hill working alone but in a group it is easy. The following quote might be helpful:

p. 174/233, book I, "The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/spirit complex."

They do not suggest we stop locking doors, or that we stop using money immediately. They do not comment on use of weapons for self-defense. Certainly they do not expect all loss of ego in order to be STO or more STO than STS. As Buddha suggests, I try to walk a middle path. Door locks no guns. In my daily meditation/prayers I ask Adonai's, angels, ascended beings of love/light to assist me in radiating my essence. This involves a parallel request to squeeze out as much ego as I can like one squeezes water from a newly laundered towel. This requires constant intention to minimize ego and maximize golden light, unity, Adonai's will be done, not my little ego's whiny whims. However, I also isolate myself and avoid physical contact with other-selves at the same time inviting all other selves to find me online and text with me. I am not flexible, I don't listen to anybody whine. I don't see anyone who demands it. I have boundaries. Some people find my boundaries overly eccentric because I avoid talk. I do not use telephones or services requiring voice/video. I am still a sincere loving presence constantly refocusing my attention on unity. Within these limitations, I ask Adonai now and now and now to use me completely, all my thoughts, words and deeds for His will. The same ways as suggested in the Ra transcripts: Lord's prayer, hymn singing such as amazing grace. I add sun-gazing, looking at photos of loved ones, taking joy in small pleasures and acknowledging to each of these: Thou Art God. I am grateful for this/you. This is not avoidance of other-self, it is focusing on other-self, it is tuning. I think of it as service to the divine other...hardly selfishness.

[ada]

I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

The Law of One is available to all seekers...I see this as the individual soul's goal to balance self empowerment (STS) and cooperation (STO). If the soul has no distortion toward manipulation and exploitation then perhaps it is not STS after all? One needs only to be 51% STO/cooperative in order to "graduate," with this "class," not 100%. Even 5th and 6th density have some polarity. Yet, as they point out, it is hard to move a big boulder up a steep hill working alone but in a group it is easy. The following quote might be helpful:

p. 174/233, book I, "The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/spirit complex."

They do not suggest we stop locking doors, or that we stop using money immediately. They do not comment on use of weapons for self-defense. Certainly they do not expect all loss of ego in order to be STO or more STO than STS. As Buddha suggests, I try to walk a middle path. Door locks no guns. In my daily meditation/prayers I ask Adonai's, angels, ascended beings of love/light to assist me in radiating my essence. This involves a parallel request to squeeze out as much ego as I can like one squeezes water from a newly laundered towel. This requires constant intention to minimize ego and maximize golden light, unity, Adonai's will be done, not my little ego's whiny whims. However, I also isolate myself and avoid physical contact with other-selves at the same time inviting all other selves to find me online and text with me. I am not flexible, I don't listen to anybody whine. I don't see anyone who demands it. I have boundaries. Some people find my boundaries overly eccentric because I avoid talk. I do not use telephones or services requiring voice/video. I am still a sincere loving presence constantly refocusing my attention on unity. Within these limitations, I ask Adonai now and now and now to use me completely, all my thoughts, words and deeds for His will. The same ways as suggested in the Ra transcripts: Lord's prayer, hymn singing such as amazing grace. I add sun-gazing, looking at photos of loved ones, taking joy in small pleasures and acknowledging to each of these: Thou Art God. I am grateful for this/you. This is not avoidance of other-self, it is focusing on other-self, it is tuning. I think of it as service to the divine other...hardly selfishness.

Nothing is written in stone yet you continue to use knowledge to describe the path of somebody else.
Knowledge is power over the weak, and trust me when I say these words mean nothing to me.

You've all gotten yourself so deep into these equations and small details that in the first place were not apart of the original law. When Ra was asked what was the law the answer was simple. The law is one.
That is all that matters, not the prayers, not the "51% graduation", not those pretty little words everyone tend to use in order to show their vest knowledge about something they've read/discussed. It's just an idea. And we all know how ideas turn out to be.

19.17 Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?
Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

And that is exactly why the law was not meant to become complex, you leave no space for free will.
Thank you for your opinions.

[hobbvin82]

As one who chooses to identify as STO, I can see other entities as sparks of the One Infinite Creator, as other versions of myself, as souls at various states of consciousness all seeking to reconnect with that creative infinity, etc.

I believe a fundamental, perhaps the most fundamental, chasm between STO and STS is the way in which others are viewed and their relationship to self.  When I try to fathom what STS sees when they view others, I have a difficult time - especially with the 4D and 5D.  Do they come completely from a place of fear where they see every other entity as a threat?  Do they have a destructive view towards creation and therefore try to get others to self-destruct?  Do they have a perverted or reverse view of human development and see destruction as the more expedient way to return to the Creator?  Are they so absorbed in their self to the point where they see others as their play things to get more for their self?  Is it simply a feeling of insecurity? In the words of Seinfeld, "What is the deal?"  What are your thoughts?

Are we not all both STS & STO? Where these is positive, there is negative. I personally feel that 50/50 is balanced. You are helping the Creator to experience both sides of the equation.

You cannot share love for other-selves if you don't first go within to find the love. We are all one. We are all the Creator. For those of us on the STO path, are we not also serving ourselves when we serve others? I feel the best way to approach this is to simply serve the Creator. In doing so, you serve yourself, and others. As, we are all one unit. As Hatonn said back in the 70's.

(Don't lynch me for using a quote that isn't from the Ra Material. I feel that all information from the Confederation, regardless of the individual source is "Law of One" material).

There is no necessity to establish within one’s thinking an appreciation of self. For this presupposes that it is possible to separate self from the entire creation. If one appreciates any part of the creation, then one appreciates self, for they are one and the same thing. The elimination of the concept of self is an important one in your spiritual seeking. It is necessary only to appreciate the Creator and His product, the creation. In appreciating any part of the Creation, one must appreciate all parts, for they are inseparable.

It is therefore important to act in unison with the creation rather than out of harmony due to a lack of confidence in a state of oneness. It is possible to achieve this understanding of oneness with all by availing yourself to this knowledge and understanding through the process of daily meditation.

We of the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator extend our hand to the people of this planet. It is not necessary that we appreciate ourselves in our attempts to serve. It is only necessary that we serve. This will be appreciated by the Creator, for, my friends, the Creator is all that there is. It is as impossible to separate the Creator from the creation as it is impossible to separate yourself from the creation.


Appreciate, then, this unity. Appreciate your oneness with the Creator and the creation. If this is done, then other objectives will be of very little value. For this is what the Creator meant for all of the parts of the creation to do: to act in such a way as to serve. He did not specify this service, and He did not demand it. He simply provided the opportunity.

[Reaper]

Excessive judgment.

Isn't this a judgment on your part? 

You are analyzing a being through tiny shards of information you've got on the wide-web, not knowing the whole picture.

I am analyzing based on years of experience. I spent a good deal of time actively seeking out, studying and practicing the negative path, with tangible results. I know what goes into it and what it does to you. I've also worked with genuine practitioners of this path and learned (through their own teachings) how to spot them from afar. Considering what you just assumed about me, I will refer you to my above statement about hypocrisy.

 Pinpointing your assumption based on your belief that you are correct without a doubt. Let me ask you this Reaper, are you god?

Would you be any more willing to listen to me if I said yes? If I said I've seen the births and deaths of gods and universes, would that suddenly change your opinion of my words?

Attack the argument, not the character. If you'd like to genuinely refute my statements with superior reasoning, I'm all ears.

[Reaper]

Also, there's that part where Ra clearly laid out exactly what defines STS behavior. Numerous times. Considering it's what this forum is based on, I'm assuming you've actually read the material? I can dig up the quotes if you like.

[hobbvin82]

...Let me ask you this Reaper, are you god?

I apologize if this was a rhetorical question. However...

We are all God. How could we not be? God, or The Creator is everything. We are not apart of that whole. We are one with it.

[Jade]

STO involves STS because it's the more balanced path. People like to argue that there are no paths but Ra spends a long time and a lot of words telling everyone how to focus on the true path, the STO path, which is inclusive and includes both paths.

Before the veil, there was one path: STO, or really, Service to All. Once the veil/The Choice/free will was conceptualized, 3rd density became a more varied experience, allowing the development of the illusion of STS. The veil creates an artificial separation, and the STS path is created because of that and furthers itself by exploiting that.

STS is exclusive and deliberately tries to remove the expression of other parts of the Creator. This is also a valid, and true path. However, the STO path is the truer of the paths, and Ra gives a very detailed and indepth study on "The Two Paths", how and where and why the split, and the purpose. When people come in and say "All Ra said is that All is One" COMPLETELY miss the point of the material. We chose to incarnate in 3D to experience duality. We are creating articulated experiences for the Creator, as a service to the Creator. To insinuate that that is useless is, again, to miss the point. Of course, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

78.21 Questioner: You stated previously that The Choice that is made in this density, third density, is the axis upon which the creation turns. Could you expand on your reason for making that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement of the nature of creation as we speak to you.

78.22 Questioner: I did not understand that. Could you say that in a different way?

Ra: I am Ra. As you have noted, the creation of which your Logos is a part is a protean entity which grows and learns upon a macrocosmic scale. The Logos is not a part of time. All that is learned from experience in an octave is, therefore, the harvest of that Logos and is further the nature of that Logos.

The original Logos’s experience was, viewed in space/time, small; Its experience now, more. Therefore we say, as we now speak to you at this space/time, the nature of creation is as we have described. This does not deny the process by which this nature has been achieved but merely ratifies the product.

78.23 Questioner: After third density, in our experience, social memory complexes are polarized positively and negatively. Is the interaction between social memory complexes of opposite polarity equivalent, but on a magnified scale, to the interaction between mind/body/spirit complexes of opposite polarity? Is this how experience is gained as a function of polarity difference at the fourth and fifth densities?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

78.24 Questioner: This is a hard question just to ask, but what is the function or what is the value experientially of the formation of positive and negative social memory complexes, of the separation of the polarities at that point rather than the allowing for the mixing of mind/body/spirit complexes of opposite polarity at the higher densities?

Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of polarity is to develop the potential to do work. This is the great characteristic of those, shall we say, experiments which have evolved since the concept of The Choice was appreciated. Work is done far more efficiently and with greater purity, intensity, and variety by the voluntary searching of mind/body/spirit complexes for the lessons of third and fourth densities. The action of fifth density is, viewed in space/time, the same with or without polarity. However, viewed in time/space, the experiences of wisdom are greatly enlarged and deepened due, again, to the voluntary nature of polarized mind/body/spirit action.

78.25 Questioner: Then you are saying as a result of the polarization in consciousness that has occurred later in the galactic evolution, that the experiences are much more, shall I say, profound or deeper along the two paths. Are these experiences independent of the other path or must there be action across the potentiated difference between the positive and negative polarity, or is it possible to have this experience simply because of the single polarity? This is difficult to ask.

Ra: I am Ra. We would agree. We shall attempt to pluck the gist of your query from the surrounding verbiage.

The fourth and fifth densities are quite independent, the positive polarity functioning with no need of negative and vice-versa. It is to be noted that in attempting to sway third-density mind/body/spirit complexes in choosing polarity there evolves a good bit of interaction between the two polarities. In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.

The end goal is being able to send love and light to all other selves. That is what they are doing mid 6th density. Learning the lessons of balance is easier here and then makes the job in 6th density easier. We are using polarity as a tool to learn from. It's true that the 51% point of harvest is mostly moot, but Ra says as Wanderers we are here to help increase the harvest. So there is some meaning to the threshholds.

[GentleWanderer]

_______

[ada]

Excessive judgment.

Isn't this a judgment on your part? 

You are analyzing a being through tiny shards of information you've got on the wide-web, not knowing the whole picture.

I am analyzing based on years of experience. I spent a good deal of time actively seeking out, studying and practicing the negative path, with tangible results. I know what goes into it and what it does to you. I've also worked with genuine practitioners of this path and learned (through their own teachings) how to spot them from afar. Considering what you just assumed about me, I will refer you to my above statement about hypocrisy.

 Pinpointing your assumption based on your belief that you are correct without a doubt. Let me ask you this Reaper, are you god?

Would you be any more willing to listen to me if I said yes? If I said I've seen the births and deaths of gods and universes, would that suddenly change your opinion of my words?

Attack the argument, not the character. If you'd like to genuinely refute my statements with superior reasoning, I'm all ears.

Yet again you show your vest knowledge to prove what exactly? That your belief is the right one?
I'm done with this discussion.

[mattschryer]

The STS self sees itself as a grand being and has great love for that grand being. As a grand being, it sees everything else as a fragment of itself, a piece of itself to be categorized, strengthened, groomed, and subjugated. More and more the negative being sees an other self as part of their being, an extension to be manipulated for the highest output of performance, to glorify itself. The free will of the other does not matter because the free will of the negative being is paramount, their free will being the desire of subjugation of others. Luckily, the hierarchy of the negative polarity allows for constant competition and reshuffling, so they get to experience their pleasures and desires in an environment of their choosing.

The path of the negative adept is not "easier", in fact, it is deliberately harder. It may seem easier because that is one of the tricks that is played on us in 3D by the veil, that the negative is greater in more abundance than the positive. But the truth, is unity. So to follow the path of separation is harder because it is the path of distorted truth. It's a legitimate path and necessary and I'm not attempting to pass any judgement at all on the negative path. But to me, it seems more intuitive/easy to learn the process of letting go and allowing the Creator to unfold as It will than attempting to create some personal order out of the chaos

I highlighted the phrase 'The free will of the others does not matter' because I feel there is more to this idea. When I view free will and it's relationship to STS I see that the free will of others is recognized, and does matter, albeit through a distorted perspective because it's my understanding that there is a level of trust within the STS polarized entity that believes that the other self that they are interacting with has chosen freely through its own confusion to be a co-creator in such a way where they appear to be controlled, manipulated, or otherwise infringed upon.  In truth there is no infringement, and from the STS viewpoint there is only co-creation.  Control and manipulation can only be experienced by one who is on the STO path and who has not yet realized that they are in fact responsible for everything they create, feel, see, and do.

As for the second paragraph, I have to respectfully disagree because its my understanding that both paths are equally difficult to attain and maintain, and that both are equally valid aspects of the same unified whole.  Separation is unity, integration is unity, truth is unity.  Therefor truth must include separation and integration equally. To call separation harder because it is the path of distorted truth is missing the nature of the inherent equality within unity along with the necessity for differential in order to maintain polarity within the whole.  Its my understanding that truth exists beyond polarity.

Jade, I see that you added this quote to another post 'In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.' and I wonder if this is where you based your understanding that STO is the truer path because it does not need to be abandoned at the level of 6th D. Personally you respond by saying that 'The end goal is being able to send love and light to all other selves.' and I wonder who's end goal? yours? the creators? And I don't really see how this end goal has anything to do with the dissolution of polarity which can only be experienced as a path towards the eventually dissolution of the self/re-integration with all that is. The dissolution of the self is not my goal, yet loving others is. For some of us the goal is simply to perpetuate creation and to ensure the continuity of ourselves for eternity as a balanced entity which integrates others such that we still get what we want without the necessity of supporting another in experiencing infringement. STS does not require lack of love in my humble opinion, and part of this confusion could be that we are viewing the structure of the octave from the perspectives of just ourselves along with that of Ra. Ra seeks the dissolution of the self, and perhaps there is more to the eventual evolution of the octave that is currently being hidden beyond Ra's desire to serve in its own way and to evolve in its own manner.

My mind and heart remain open as I continue to evolve with each new reading or with each new sharing. I appreciate the insights and the sharings <3

[mattschryer]

Papercut, if you were done you would simply have left without reply, so clearly there is something you are still seeking to glimpse on some level. Whether you seek STS or STO is irrelevant to me, and I'd really like to just focus back onto your own words. You made this comment 'Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that?' and I remind you that you are the only one who assumed that not serving others makes you evil, and I'm curious as to why you feel this way. It's become clear that other peoples perspectives just aren't providing you with what you seek to get to the heart of here.

[Jade]

I agree that "The free will of others does not matter" was an inadequate hyperbole, because an STS entity has to follow the laws of free will. But, they are interested in exploiting and using a being's own free will to enslave themselves. But my point with my entire sentence was that the negative beings' free will supersedes that of those below it. If an STS wants to create a slave society, they will do that. Of course they need those who are willing, which there will always be plenty. But the "gravity well" created by a negative society leaves very little room for one to exert their own will.

70.23 Questioner: I was asking these questions primarily to understand or to build a base for an attempt to get a little bit of enlightenment on the way that time/space and space/time is related to the evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex so that I could better understand the techniques, you might say, of that evolution. For instance, you stated that “the potential difference may be released and polarities changed after an entity has learned/taught the lessons of love of self” if the entity is [a] positive entity that has found itself in negative time/space and then had to incarnate in negative space/time. And what I was trying to do was build a base for attempting to understand or at least get a slight understanding of what you meant by this statement that potential difference may be released and polarities changed after the above step. I am very interested in knowing, if placed in a negative time/space, why it is necessary to incarnate in negative space/time and learn/teach love of self and develop, I guess, a sixth-density level of polarity before you can release that potential difference. I was trying to build a little foothold or platform from which to make that more apparent. Could you speak on that subject, please?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working.

The entity which incarnates into negative space/time will not find it possible to maintain any significant positive polarity as negativity, when pure, is a type of gravity well, shall we say, pulling all into it. Thus the entity, while remembering its learned and preferred polarity, must needs make use of the catalyst given and recapitulate the lessons of service to self in order to build up enough polarity in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal.

There is much in this line of questioning which is somewhat muddled. May we, at this point allow the questioner to rephrase the question or to turn the direction of query more towards that which is the heart of its concern.

...

71.14 Questioner: You have made the statement that pure negativity acts as a gravity well pulling all into it. I was wondering first if pure positivity has precisely the same effect? Could you answer that please?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

I also disagree that "Control and manipulation can only happen to one on the STO path who has not realized themselves as Creator" - control and manipulation happens to STS beings amongst each other, too. And in 3D, I'd say primarily to unpolarized entities.

As to the second point, I agree with you on one level. But the "natural" progression of all ways is STO. In the quote I made above, Ra even says that the STS path is harder because in mid 6th density they have to learn how to do what the STO entity has been doing all along. That is why I say the STS path is "harder". Not less equal. Just a deliberately round-about way to unity.

Jade, I see that you added this quote to another post 'In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.' and I wonder if this is where you based your understanding that STO is the truer path because it does not need to be abandoned at the level of 6th D. Personally you respond by saying that 'The end goal is being able to send love and light to all other selves.' and I wonder who's end goal? yours? the creators? And I don't really see how this end goal has anything to do with the dissolution of polarity which can only be experienced as a path towards the eventually dissolution of the self/re-integration with all that is. The dissolution of the self is not my goal, yet loving others is. For some of us the goal is simply to perpetuate creation and to ensure the continuity of ourselves for eternity as a balanced entity which integrates others such that we still get what we want without the necessity of supporting another in experiencing infringement. STS does not require lack of love in my humble opinion, and part of this confusion could be that we are viewing the structure of the octave from the perspectives of just ourselves along with that of Ra. Ra seeks the dissolution of the self, and perhaps there is more to the eventual evolution of the octave that is currently being hidden beyond Ra's desire to serve in its own way and to evolve in its own manner.

Ra seeks dissolution of self through what they call the path of service to others, or unity. They also say that the creation is mystery laden. I'm not making judgement on others, I'm just defending what I perceive is a rather continuous attack on the idea of polarizing service to others. Everyone wants to "transcend polarity" but the fact is that you have to climb the ladder one rung at a time, and the Creation is deliberately designed this way after many experimentations. Most people are just trying to defend the legitimacy of the sinkhole. And there is plenty of legitimacy, but to actually do spiritual work while incarnated in 3rd density requires choosing a polarity. I believe on some level, everyone who participates on this forum wants to engage in that level of experience. It's just confusing on how to get there because The Law of One by Ra was specifically worded to leave everyone's free will in tact and not make the choice for them. So there is a lot of information that gets jumbled in people's heads when they read the Ra material. It's not until a polarity is decided upon and the path is followed that un-jumbling can begin to occur.

As far as who decides who is doing what mid-6th density, and why the STS path is more difficult, I was just sharing my interpretations of Ra's words in the quote I already posted:

The fourth and fifth densities are quite independent, the positive polarity functioning with no need of negative and vice-versa. It is to be noted that in attempting to sway third-density mind/body/spirit complexes in choosing polarity there evolves a good bit of interaction between the two polarities. In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.

[Jamie35]

To ask the question of how service to self views other selves then ask a 3rd density on this planet learning and doing the work pushing itself to comprehend and discover itself.  The mind is where to start to discover and peer through the veil of what lies forward, as to understand the blocks, its wants, desires, what it seeks, and where the creator assists to take the entity to discover what truth is needed in this period of recycling that it has to learn.  One obvious truth is to learn how many times do you focus on saying 'I' or that is to say focus on the self rather then through the description of others: 

"You do not realize your own situation.  You are in prison.  All you can wish for, if you are a sensible man,is to escape.  But how escape?  It is necessary to tunnel under a wall.  One man can do nothing.  But let us suppose there are ten or twenty men--if they work in turn and if one covers another they can complete the tunnel and escape.


Furthermore, no one can escape from prison without the help of those who have escaped before.  Only then they can say in what way escape is possible or can send tools, files, or whatever may be necessary.  But one prisoner alone cannot find these people or get into touch with them.  An organization is necessary.  Nothing can be achieved without an organization."


Often when I do this work and attempt to find others to network with within the local geographic area if you use imagination then picture a man running into a brick wall and bouncing back wallowing in excoriating pain losing his will to get back again to do the work and having to fall back to gather himself to recommence the work trying to get back onto the staircase.  We are in prison and the system sets road blocks to keep us here, while we attempt to discover ourselves.  That alone is not enough to do self observation to discover what traits do you have that you do not even see.  Indeed rushing into this work in itself can  be an egotistical adventure.  And you still do not see that you are attempting to absorb this information as quickly as you can and if you are working faster then your capability you will encounter obstacles from procrastination, which may be a symptom of my impatience of wishing to rush through thr work, and when the read is heavy I can only read so much then the mind wanders into an obfuscation usually a distraction that is identifiable.

With no support in the work and lack of human contact the mechanism is far more powerful to overcome then meets thee eye:

"So long as he fails to realize this, so long as he thinks he is free, he has no chance whatever.  No one can help or liberate him by force, against only as a result of great labor and great efforts, and, above all, of conscious efforts, towards a definite aim."

-- both quotes from In Search of the Miraculous pg. 30 by PD Ouspensky quoting Georges Ivan Gurdjieff 


It has been experienced that when a person is lost in his own suffering by his own freewill which is a choice even if he is unconscious there is the Law of Confusion of maybe having an aim before but after failure he doubts himself and loses faith to end up bankrupt and disappointed in himself because of his egoism.  The universe is teaching him a lesson and all he thinks is about himself and wallows in his subjectivity.  He then loses his aim and becomes lost in a static state even if he has the great ability to be in that role of the old aim, perhaps he rushed into that role looking for the easy way out while he shoulf have worked slowly for his aim, and not have expected to achieve it rate away.  

Service to self involves a being in flight as much as being the predator, both are the enslaved and the slave master, and both are devoid of energy wallowing in that black hole.  

"That was my first experience with "wanna--be."  Since then, I've learned that the whole phenomenon -- whites trying to emulate  Indian culture trappings -- is the latest pathetic phase of the rebellion against spiritual bankruptcy."


-- Cleveland Chapter 13, Where White Men Fear to Tread pg. 144, Russell Means


One of the key activation that bring people here to key sites such as the Law of One forum is that like most other people with minds to think have experienced a spiritual bankruptcy as a result of many factors including trying to be something that you are not because of your perception and now you must work to free yourself from those thoughts.  I have not read this book but I have heard portions of information relating to it that another saying is call it if it is done correctly POSITIVE DISINTEGRATION, and whether we know it or not we have done it before and will keep doing it to find our disappointments and blocks of this whole experience. 

The system has a way to play games with us and it not for our benefit.  Ever since I started this work my health has deteriorated in some ways teaching me to focus more on my diet, taking care of myself, and seeing who I am as an entity.  Everything is contradictory to my illusion of what I thought I was, and remembering of some of the things that was done there is no escape within this world of being in service to self.  The only thing that can be done is emulate to send the creator the message that I wish to be something different then I am however I will not live the illusion of what I am not and if I am to graduate to the next level in service to others  do not lie to others and yourself.  Utilize from what is known from your actions and correct the contradictions in cognitive repair.  

Esoteric work is not all what was thought, it involves beyond what is known and considered to be esoteric work.  The work has taken me deeper slowly into the subjects such as the Amygdala to further my understanding of why I am the way I am.  The fragmentation of the mind of many selves can be overwhelming when you understand that you are not whole but separate and governed by many laws.  Yet connections outside of your influences can also be a factor whether you can awake or stay asleep.


 

[mattschryer]

Nice post Jade! Something you brought up reminded me of something I was interested in pursuing some time ago.

71.14 Questioner: You have made the statement that pure negativity acts as a gravity well pulling all into it. I was wondering first if pure positivity has precisely the same effect? Could you answer that please?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.
-------------------------------------------------

Given that Ra has evolved on a path through the STO polarization and not yet personally experienced a 3rd 4th 5th or 6th D STS polarized harvest, is it possible that their insights into the full potential and nature of the STS path may be skewed by their limited perspective and experience?
Do all STS entities deny free will of others, or do some perceive it and respect it in the way I explained in my above post? copied - 'it's my understanding that there is a level of trust within the STS polarized entity that believes that the other self that they are interacting with has chosen freely through its own confusion to be a co-creator in such a way where they appear to be controlled, manipulated, or otherwise infringed upon.'
Secondly, do all STS entities pull on other selves, or do some simply allow for others to experience be pulled while allowing for that same other to continue to experience having freely chosen who and what they are? It seems to me that if one is being pulled and is accusing another of pulling them, then they are STS in their judgement of claiming another is responsible for what they experience and what they feel. The one doing the pulling in this case would be polarizing STO because it is perceiving its action in a way congruent with STO polarization.
Is it possible that an act alone cannot be defined as STO or STS because it requires awareness of intent and belief before such a definition can be assigned? It seems to me that any or all action has the potential to assist in polarization either STO or STS for one who uses the catalyst in that manner.

[Night Owl]

I look at it like this, do you take responsibility for everything you see, think, feel, and do, or do you project blame and pass responsibility onto others so that the cause of how you feel can remain beyond what you define yourself and your power to create to be?  The power manipulation and control people often speak about related to the STS path is just a natural effect of a reality in which one passes responsibility for how they feel onto others.  example - I'll be happy when you do this, or I'm angry because you made me angry, vs I'll be happy because its who I am, or I'm angry because I'm dissapointed with something within myself that I'm seeing reflected through you.  STO sees itself as the cause of how it perceives others, and STO changes itself so as to affect change in its environment.  STS sees itself as the effect of how others view it, and therefor STS manipulates and changes it's environment in order to justify and allow for desired changes to occur within itself.

I honestly think that the only answer you really need here papercut is this one. The others are relevant to other members than yourself but I feel like this one holds much of what I feel you are seeking. The rest is up to you to answer your own questions. Others are simply there to offer you different perspectives to consider. If you feel like there is no room for your freewill maybe you can ask yourself honestly if you give yourself that space. Nobody can take it from you unless you let them get to you.

[Night Owl]

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

That really made me consider your perspective comparing this to eating meat. I've always been eating meat thinking I would transmute their negative feelings of slavery into positive feelings about the taste and the transfer of energy that is occuring between two parts of the creator but I didn't felt concerned about them being slave since I wasn't actively contributing to it and wouldn't kill an animal if I had to do so to survive. But I can't deny eating meat definitly feels like not acknowledging freewill of an other entity. I always thought about it like animals were used as slaves by society. But that is missing the point. The point is about how someone eating meat feel about it. You cannot consider their freewill while eating their flesh. You can only not think about it or not feel it. Considering their freewill while eating their flesh would result in great cognitive dissonance.

[Night Owl]

I agree that "The free will of others does not matter" was an inadequate hyperbole, because an STS entity has to follow the laws of free will. But, they are interested in exploiting and using a being's own free will to enslave themselves. But my point with my entire sentence was that the negative beings' free will supersedes that of those below it. If an STS wants to create a slave society, they will do that. Of course they need those who are willing, which there will always be plenty. But the "gravity well" created by a negative society leaves very little room for one to exert their own will.

I'm not so sure STS entities are that much interested in exploiting others rather than having no problem whatsoever in doing so if that is required to reach their goal. Their goal more than likely being way bigger in perspective than simply exploiting other selves. When put on a global scale, do you think the elites really just masturbate at the idea of denying everyone's freewill or are they simply ready to do anything to have money, fame, power, recognition. While I find the latter easier to compare to what I observe about the world, I think STS entities will simply find that denying people of their freewill the easiest way to reach that goal. But the freewill infringement isn't the goal in itself. It's just how I feel at the moment. I feel it would be like saying animals are being enslaved just for the sake of being enslaved.

As to the second point, I agree with you on one level. But the "natural" progression of all ways is STO. In the quote I made above, Ra even says that the STS path is harder because in mid 6th density they have to learn how to do what the STO entity has been doing all along. That is why I say the STS path is "harder". Not less equal. Just a deliberately round-about way to unity.

Wouldn't you think STO is doing the exact same thing? How do you expect the entire STO polarity to absorb all the STS polarity in unity if it is not itself exploring the STS path meanwhile. I think this a mutual process. Else there would be no need for balancing. Your own quote from your previous post seems to point exactly to that idea that both must take from each in other to balance. I do get that you're trying to promote polarity instead of promoting the sinkhole which you do rightfully. You may have helped me take a step out of it actually. But I cannot conceive those 6D idea that STO is the right path and that STS just become STO. It seems to me like the effect of confusion not to remember that the entire STS polarity is indeed an STO project from the start and that the STO polarity is exploring the STS all along. I don't think an STO group could harvest into 7D without even touching the surface of their initial desire to work with a duality. (All is one, all is well, all is unity) To me those sentences don't mean all is right but STO is more valid. All is valid. All is rightful to be how it is. But I know you already know that.


I think the goal behind promoting the illusion of polarity is not to justify the sinkhole (it may have been in certain circumstances) but to free one from the chains caused by the veil which leads one to associate certain patterns as STO or STS in an inappropriate way while it is simply a projection of their biases. In some cases it may be more helpful for one to realize that before making a choice of polarity as it will be done with more honesty and a deeper understanding of the reasons why the choice is made.


I do agree with everything else you say. Your posts are well balanced and full of love as usual.