Do we get more out of suffering?

[AnthroHeart]

The more we suffer, do we learn more?
When we have passed on, will we be more thankful for a life which we suffered more, or less?

Is suffering necessary for spiritual growth?

I consider any challenge to be suffering to an extent, depending on your mindset.

Is it all mindset where you choose to suffer or not?

I don't want to think that I am doomed to suffer because my higher self thinks it will get more out of it.

[Lighthead]

I think it depends. I think that what would help us learn from our catalyst is if we make the conscious effort to learn from it. I know that Ra has talked about that, but it's sorta hard for me to dig up quotes on my tablet. I have an old tablet.

[Aion]

According to Buddhist thought suffering comes from an incorrect view of reality and the intent is to cease suffering for the self and all sentient beings.

[Minyatur]

The more we suffer, do we learn more?
When we have passed on, will we be more thankful for a life which we suffered more, or less?

Is suffering necessary for spiritual growth?

I consider any challenge to be suffering to an extent, depending on your mindset.

Is it all mindset where you choose to suffer or not?

I don't want to think that I am doomed to suffer because my higher self thinks it will get more out of it.

If you suffer you are your higher self suffering, there is no real way you can dissociate yourself from it.

[TheFifty9Sound]

I would suggest that suffering is the resistance to experience. For example, whist one might define fasting as suffering, another might define it as an enlightening endeavour.

If you're willing to allowing things to happen, and accept them as they come, suffering is greatly reduced.

[Aion]

Pain is resistance.

[APeacefulWarrior]

As far as Ra and The LOO go, I think the short answer would be: No, suffering is not a requirement for spiritual growth, but it speeds the process up considerably.

Ra's comments in 77.17 about species that were created without free will, and already totally STO, seem to go straight to your question. That would, at least, be as close as I can imagine to an existence without suffering. They eventually made it to 8D, but it took an extremely long amount of time (insofar as time matters) and didn't provide many interesting experiences to learn from.

77.17 Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

[AnthroHeart]

Now that we've had plenty of time under the veil, I sometimes like to think I'd prefer the veil to go away. It's served its purpose.

[Aion]

I don't think that can happen until there is a concentrated effort to penetrate the veil.

[AnthroHeart]

I don't think that can happen until there is a concentrated effort to penetrate the veil.

Thanks.

When I focus on piercing the veil, I feel a thick "something" around my head that feels like I'm under water.
Not sure if the veil is "thick" like that.

[Aion]

I don't think that can happen until there is a concentrated effort to penetrate the veil.

Thanks.

When I focus on piercing the veil, I feel a thick "something" around my head that feels like I'm under water.
Not sure if the veil is "thick" like that.

That's exactly what the veil is like. Metaphysically it's like a smog around the third-eye.

[AnthroHeart]

How will I know when I've pierced it? Will suddenly I have "knowledge"?

Or will I just *know* that I've pierced it?

I'm sure there are different levels of piercing it.

[Stranger]

I came across a person recently who has had WAY too much pain, and is not yet even middle-aged as the pain is getting worse (not just talking about physical pain, either). It stuck with me. As it kept staying on my mind, I kept getting the message, "there are no victims", repeatedly.

I decided to find out more, and received the following.

Guides: There are no victims, [Stranger]. that is the truth. What we mean by that is that every suffering, as you call it, is chosen and selected by its perceived recipient, on a higher level of which you are not yet aware, but will become aware of shortly, that is the truth. Suffering is not the bane you imagine it to be. There is a reason for it which, once again, you do not yet comprehend. But we can tell you that, for instance, in the case of the person who brought on this sort of anguish for you last week, her suffering is entirely self-selected. She chose to experience a very, very difficult lifetime in order to advance spiritually, and that is the truth. Her ordeal, as you might put it, is not without its rewards. Think of it as an investment that she was fully willing to make, knowing just how difficult it would be to do so, but focusing on the benefit it would bring her personally in the future. Does that make sense to you?

Me: I understand why someone might choose to do this to themselves if it was in some way rewarding down the road (and it is, [Stranger]!). The part I'm struggling to comprehend is why create a Universe where such intense suffering is required to achieve any goals? Where's the sense or love in that?

Guides: We understand your query and are processing it. [brief pause] We did not create this Universe so we do not know how to answer it, and that is the truth. However, the suffering is self-chosen, and it would be well for you to keep that in mind. Adonai.

[Minyatur]

How could you wish to not suffer if you knew not what it was? That's probably the Creator's perspective of it.

Each Octave, the Creator work with the game he sets for himself until he finishes it and reaches back to it's One Original Awareness. When he does, the game is over and a new one is explored in dimensions/ways not known from the previous game. The infinite adventure of the One Dreamer that didn't want to be nothing forever althought He also wanted and has been nothing forever at the same time.

Distortions and ressistance are our ways for the game not to end.

[Minyatur]

How will I know when I've pierced it? Will suddenly I have "knowledge"?

Or will I just *know* that I've pierced it?

I'm sure there are different levels of piercing it.

There are different levels of piercing it but there also are different "areas" of piercing it. You can't dwell on one thing, you need to explore all facets of yourself if you want to truly awaken.

[AnthroHeart]

How will I know when I've pierced it? Will suddenly I have "knowledge"?

Or will I just *know* that I've pierced it?

I'm sure there are different levels of piercing it.

There are different levels of piercing it but there also are different "areas" of piercing it. You can't dwell on one thing, you need to explore all facets of yourself if you want to truly awaken.

Like sexuality and my shadow self. And just mentally opening the veil as a force of will.

I realize I have to penetrate it with my heart as well. The same fog surrounds my heart as my 3rd eye.

[Minyatur]

How will I know when I've pierced it? Will suddenly I have "knowledge"?

Or will I just *know* that I've pierced it?

I'm sure there are different levels of piercing it.

There are different levels of piercing it but there also are different "areas" of piercing it. You can't dwell on one thing, you need to explore all facets of yourself if you want to truly awaken.

Like sexuality and my shadow self. And just mentally opening the veil as a force of will.

I realize I have to penetrate it with my heart as well. The same fog surrounds my heart as my 3rd eye.

In my case my heart might be my most veiled ray.

[AnthroHeart]

I suffer because I think of doing bad things and harming another. And it gets pretty intense and vivid in my visualization. I need to learn to love this side of myself. The further I go into the veil, the more dark parts of me come to the surface.

[Minyatur]

I suffer because I think of doing bad things and harming another. And it gets pretty intense and vivid in my visualization. I need to learn to love this side of myself. The further I go into the veil, the more dark parts of me come to the surface.

I do think it is not something that just is for no reason and as such needs to be understood. If you think of these things, it is because you have suffered. 

Thing is this earth can be both heaven and hell. When we came here, we prepared ourselves for the experiment we thought would be useful to us.

[Lighthead]

I suffer because I think of doing bad things and harming another. And it gets pretty intense and vivid in my visualization. I need to learn to love this side of myself. The further I go into the veil, the more dark parts of me come to the surface.

You should try meditating. It's easier to work through your issues when you meditate. I've been meditating before I go to sleep lately. I pretty much just meditate until I get sleepy, and then I go to sleep. If I'm meditating by 11 pm, then I'll get sleepy. So what I'll do is I start meditating like at around 10 pm, so that gives me an hour of meditation. Just pretend to go to bed, but instead of going straight to sleep, give yourself about an hour to meditate.

[AnthroHeart]

I meditate during the day. Meditation is how I plan to penetrate the veil. And feel Creator's unconditional love on my heart again. Just have to get through the thick smog of confusion.

[Minyatur]

I meditate during the day. Meditation is how I plan to penetrate the veil. And feel Creator's unconditional love on my heart again. Just have to get through the thick smog of confusion.

A good quote that describes the Creator's Love.

Latwii - January 12, 1974 Wrote:Love, my friends, is not what you think it is. The word in your language has a meaning that has various interpretations. But it is none of these things. We use the word when we speak to you, because it is as close as we can come to the concept, using your language. Love, my friends, is that force which does all of the things that are done in the entire creation. All of the things, my friends, even those that you would interpret as being without love.

[AnthroHeart]

Well I want that tickly feeling in my heart again that I attributed to love.

[Minyatur]

There is love and there is Love, to find Love you need to perceive it in All that is.

[Jeremy]

My question would be why would you wanna get a taste of the other side when you won't be able to remain there?

[Minyatur]

My question would be why would you wanna get a taste of the other side when you won't be able to remain there?

To know yourself?

[AnthroHeart]

My question would be why would you wanna get a taste of the other side when you won't be able to remain there?

What other spiritual purpose should I spend my time on than to prepare me for 4D?

[Jeremy]

That's not up to me to suggest brother. I was just curious because I'd be willing to bet that once you got a taste of it, you'd consistently chase it like a high instead of focusing upon whatever else you had planned for your life.

[AnthroHeart]

Anything to smooth out this anxiety.

[Jeremy]

My question would be why would you wanna get a taste of the other side when you won't be able to remain there?

To know yourself?

Noble reason. I'm just in a different boat I guess where I'd rather work on ways to help people rather than further delve into my own personal archetypes and such.