Could there have been an octave about time/space, space/time?

[Lighthead]

This OP is inspired by something andreazzi mentioned on another thread about reality being polarity based. I know that Ra mentions that the previous octave was about the mover and the moved. And Tan.rar (as Yggdrasil) mentioned that he believes that this octave that we are in is the green ray octave. So it made me wonder if there was an octave that refined the idea of time/space and space/time.

So this octave is, apparently, the green ray octave. The mover/moved octave is the yellow ray octave. The time/space, space/time would be either the orange ray octave or the red ray octave. Or could the mover/moved octave be the same as the time/space octave, since movement implies time? I don't know, it's kind of confusing.

I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are.

[Minyatur]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'm a bit confused by the premise of the question and am curious what you mean by "the time/space, space/time." In Ra's cosmology, space/time and time/space are all included within our current octave. Both space/time and time/space have 7 densities, and all of those densities make up the current octave. To separate time/space or space/time from our current octave wouldn't make much sense in light of Ra's words. Could you clarify a bit?

[Aion]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

According to Ra, Jesus was a fourth-density Wanderer from this Octave.

I see what you are doing in terms of 'centering' each colour, but I don't think that is the case, personally. I believe each octave density reflects the overall octave structure so all octaves would have the same arrangement but with different emphasis in consciousness throughout the entirety.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals of the same thing, motion or energy. However, in the cosmology of Ra there is a definite point where space and time come in to existence but there is creative work that occurs before this.

[Lighthead]

I'm a bit confused by the premise of the question and am curious what you mean by "the time/space, space/time." In Ra's cosmology, space/time and time/space are all included within our current octave. Both space/time and time/space have 7 densities, and all of those densities make up the current octave. To separate time/space or space/time from our current octave wouldn't make much sense in light of Ra's words. Could you clarify a bit?

My assumption (I'm building off of what somebody else mentioned) is that the different main polarities that we perceive were refined in other octaves. That's about as much as I can clarify.

[Aion]

If I were to suggest it, I would say that it would be the octave previous to mover/moved that would have developed time/space, perhaps in the form of polarity between position and momentum.

[Minyatur]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

According to Ra, Jesus was a fourth-density Wanderer from this Octave.

I see what you are doing in terms of 'centering' each colour, but I don't think that is the case, personally. I believe each octave density reflects the overall octave structure so all octaves would have the same arrangement but with different emphasis in consciousness throughout the entirety.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals of the same thing, motion or energy. However, in the cosmology of Ra there is a definite point where space and time come in to existence but there is creative work that occurs before this.

It's the idea that came to me to make this the Green ray Octave. But wouldn't a different ray being the center simply imply like you said a different emphasis in consciousness throughout a very similar structure? It's the idea that we perceive only a small spectrum of infinity.

I was going to ask when did time/space and space/time emerge, guess you answered it partially. Guess it's when mass did emerge from massless particles.

[Lighthead]

If I were to suggest it, I would say that it would be the octave previous to mover/moved that would have developed time/space, perhaps in the form of polarity between position and momentum.

Very interesting. Thanks, Tan.

[Aion]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

According to Ra, Jesus was a fourth-density Wanderer from this Octave.

I see what you are doing in terms of 'centering' each colour, but I don't think that is the case, personally. I believe each octave density reflects the overall octave structure so all octaves would have the same arrangement but with different emphasis in consciousness throughout the entirety.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals of the same thing, motion or energy. However, in the cosmology of Ra there is a definite point where space and time come in to existence but there is creative work that occurs before this.

It's the idea that came to me to make this the Green ray Octave. But wouldn't a different ray being the center simply imply like you said a different emphasis in consciousness throughout a very similar structure?

I was going to ask when did time/space and space/time emerge, guess you answered it partially. Guess it's when mass did emerge from massless particles.

Well, sure, it implies it as a symbol, but a change in focus doesn't really necessitate a change in structure as such, because the rays still support eachother in a particular arrangement. If you look at the actual properties of light spectrum (which I use as the model for my understanding of the octave, along with music) there is a reason red is on one end and violet on the other. This is structural arrangement rather than being the result of any particular focus.

Thus, what I suggest is that what changes with each octave is the evolution of the One Thought of the Creator. At the beginning of this octave the One Thought had been refined in such a way in the previous octave so as to yield the lessons in this octave. I believe it is the same in this octave in that it is refining the One Thought to yield the lessons of the next octave. Thus, moving in to the next Octave the focus is already set and built through this octave, so starting in red, through to violet, is taking the same thought through another cycle of awareness and refinement.

Specifically, I believe the 'colours' are manifestations of particular densities. So even if the focus was different the structure would still have a base, foundation, and a highest vibration. Maybe the next octave is weird and the spectrum has rearranged itself, maybe red manifests within a different frequency wavelength, but I would remind that "red" and all colours are just translations and identifiers we have placed on particular wavelengths. I believe regardless the structure will be the same even if it doesn't manifest through the same descriptors we use now.

[Minyatur]

Well, sure, it implies it as a symbol, but a change in focus doesn't really necessitate a change in structure as such, because the rays still support eachother in a particular arrangement. If you look at the actual properties of light spectrum (which I use as the model for my understanding of the octave, along with music) there is a reason red is on one end and violet on the other. This is structural arrangement rather than being the result of any particular focus.

Thus, what I suggest is that what changes with each octave is the evolution of the One Thought of the Creator. At the beginning of this octave the One Thought had been refined in such a way in the previous octave so as to yield the lessons in this octave. I believe it is the same in this octave in that it is refining the One Thought to yield the lessons of the next octave. Thus, moving in to the next Octave the focus is already set and built through this octave, so starting in red, through to violet, is taking the same thought through another cycle of awareness and refinement.

Specifically, I believe the 'colours' are manifestations of particular densities. So even if the focus was different the structure would still have a base, foundation, and a highest vibration. Maybe the next octave is weird and the spectrum has rearranged itself, maybe red manifests within a different frequency wavelength, but I would remind that "red" and all colours are just translations and identifiers we have placed on particular wavelengths. I believe regardless the structure will be the same even if it doesn't manifest through the same descriptors we use now.

I didn't mean to say the structure would be different, just that the next octave could reach a higher vibration focus than it is possible in this one just as this one is able to reach a higher vibration focus than possible in the the previous one. Ra said that mid 1D is the 8D of the previous Octave, so the focus could easily be unlike what I proposed earlier.

From my understanding all Octaves should exist in a way one within the other with 8D emerging into a new 1D, but you said in another thread that you did not agree with this notion. 

From your understanding a previous Octave would be "elsewhere" entirely with no direct connection with this one? Particles forming matter being the 8D-1D connection that brings forth this current Octave made a lot of sense to me.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'm a bit confused by the premise of the question and am curious what you mean by "the time/space, space/time." In Ra's cosmology, space/time and time/space are all included within our current octave. Both space/time and time/space have 7 densities, and all of those densities make up the current octave. To separate time/space or space/time from our current octave wouldn't make much sense in light of Ra's words. Could you clarify a bit?

My assumption (I'm building off of what somebody else mentioned) is that the different main polarities that we perceive were refined in other octaves. That's about as much as I can clarify.

I understand now. I wasn't grasping that you were referring to space and time as polarities, but I suppose this is true in a sense.

To add my own speculation, I think it could be possible that space and time are a manifestation of the mover and moved polarities, or perhaps they are sort of an amalgam of previous polarities in a sense. 

[Lighthead]

I'm a bit confused by the premise of the question and am curious what you mean by "the time/space, space/time." In Ra's cosmology, space/time and time/space are all included within our current octave. Both space/time and time/space have 7 densities, and all of those densities make up the current octave. To separate time/space or space/time from our current octave wouldn't make much sense in light of Ra's words. Could you clarify a bit?

My assumption (I'm building off of what somebody else mentioned) is that the different main polarities that we perceive were refined in other octaves. That's about as much as I can clarify.

I understand now. I wasn't grasping that you were referring to space and time as polarities, but I suppose this is true in a sense.

To add my own speculation, I think it could be possible that space and time are a manifestation of the mover and moved polarities, or perhaps they are sort of an amalgam of previous polarities in a sense. 

I just get the impression that, in this octave, time/space and space/time are a kind of "been there, done that" kind of phenomena. It feels to me that it's something that was refined way, way far in the past. Like if it's not even an issue in this octave. That's why I think that there was a whole 'nother, previous octave that dealt with that.

[Minyatur]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

According to Ra, Jesus was a fourth-density Wanderer from this Octave.

I see what you are doing in terms of 'centering' each colour, but I don't think that is the case, personally. I believe each octave density reflects the overall octave structure so all octaves would have the same arrangement but with different emphasis in consciousness throughout the entirety.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals of the same thing, motion or energy. However, in the cosmology of Ra there is a definite point where space and time come in to existence but there is creative work that occurs before this.

It's the idea that came to me to make this the Green ray Octave. But wouldn't a different ray being the center simply imply like you said a different emphasis in consciousness throughout a very similar structure?

I was going to ask when did time/space and space/time emerge, guess you answered it partially. Guess it's when mass did emerge from massless particles.

Well, sure, it implies it as a symbol, but a change in focus doesn't really necessitate a change in structure as such, because the rays still support eachother in a particular arrangement. If you look at the actual properties of light spectrum (which I use as the model for my understanding of the octave, along with music) there is a reason red is on one end and violet on the other. This is structural arrangement rather than being the result of any particular focus.

Thus, what I suggest is that what changes with each octave is the evolution of the One Thought of the Creator. At the beginning of this octave the One Thought had been refined in such a way in the previous octave so as to yield the lessons in this octave. I believe it is the same in this octave in that it is refining the One Thought to yield the lessons of the next octave. Thus, moving in to the next Octave the focus is already set and built through this octave, so starting in red, through to violet, is taking the same thought through another cycle of awareness and refinement.

Specifically, I believe the 'colours' are manifestations of particular densities. So even if the focus was different the structure would still have a base, foundation, and a highest vibration. Maybe the next octave is weird and the spectrum has rearranged itself, maybe red manifests within a different frequency wavelength, but I would remind that "red" and all colours are just translations and identifiers we have placed on particular wavelengths. I believe regardless the structure will be the same even if it doesn't manifest through the same descriptors we use now.

That is pretty much what I meant to say. Octave denotes it's structure by it's name so as we call them all Octaves it denotes that they hold the same structure. What I meant is that the "red ray" or 1rst ray could be a different focus as fondation or beginning of a next Octave. 

As such it could go up a level and start with our association of the orange ray or 2th ray as the 1rst ray in the idea that the Middle which represents more the focus of the Octave could be instead of our green ray the blue ray as 4th ray. The colors can remain in the same spot but they'd be associated with something else or maybe be different colors altogether or most likely something beyond mere colors. It could also be with our 7th ray as the foundation of the next 1rst ray or maybe whatever our 8th ray is being an in-between ray.

This is all suppositions, I haven't channeled anything regarding this. These are train of thoughts I am exploring to find out where they can lead.

[anagogy]

I just get the impression that, in this octave, time/space and space/time are a kind of "been there, done that" kind of phenomena. It feels to me that it's something that was refined way, way far in the past. Like if it's not even an issue in this octave. That's why I think that there was a whole 'nother, previous octave that dealt with that.

The refinements are from the general to the specific.

So the refinements made on space/time and time/space are the nuances of a particular space/time and a particular time/space.  Think of gold, and the jewelry made from gold.  The jewelry is a refinement of the gold.  Use this as a bridge to understanding how these refinements occur.  Nothing new is created, in and of itself, but finer and finer subtleties are explored of that which has always been.

Time/space is the mover and space/time is the moved.  The mover and moved was a more primal or general exploration of the duality of mind and matter (in my humble opinion).

It is a maximization of the efficiency of useful appreciation of a given aspect of the creator.  So "been there, done that" is kind of moot, it is more like, "this is most pragmatic way we have found of utilizing this aspect of the creator so far".

I don't even know if I'm making sense, but those are the thoughts I have to offer at the moment.

[Lighthead]

It is a maximization of the efficiency of useful appreciation of a given aspect of the creator.  So "been there, done that" is kind of moot, it is more like, "this is most pragmatic way we have found of utilizing this aspect of the creator so far".

I may have worded it wrong, but that's pretty much exactly what I meant. Thanks.

[VanAlioSaldo]

From my perception, a space/time is a part of a time/space. Let's say you have a time/space lesson about hate that you need to learn, then you will incarnate in a space/time that can provide the correct environment for you to experience this lesson.

If in the previous octave the yellow ray was the 4th one and as such there was a ray prior to the red one we perceive not here and the 7th was in fact our 6th, the next octave could start with the orange ray and end with a ray we know not of, having our blue ray as the next middle 4th ray. If I remember correctly Jesus was said to have wandered from the next Octave and in the bible he is described as the Word. You could easily make a connection with the blue ray being the center of the next Octave if this is any true.

The duality of Mover/Moved, seems to work with a yellow ray Octave.

Time/space and space/time is probably everywhere at all time. That is my opinion, but it might have been in different ways than we can think of.

According to Ra, Jesus was a fourth-density Wanderer from this Octave.

I see what you are doing in terms of 'centering' each colour, but I don't think that is the case, personally. I believe each octave density reflects the overall octave structure so all octaves would have the same arrangement but with different emphasis in consciousness throughout the entirety.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals of the same thing, motion or energy. However, in the cosmology of Ra there is a definite point where space and time come in to existence but there is creative work that occurs before this.

It's the idea that came to me to make this the Green ray Octave. But wouldn't a different ray being the center simply imply like you said a different emphasis in consciousness throughout a very similar structure? It's the idea that we perceive only a small spectrum of infinity.

I was going to ask when did time/space and space/time emerge, guess you answered it partially. Guess it's when mass did emerge from massless particles.

You should relax, you're starting to get into areas that err easily with such assumptions as massless particles coming before mass particles, or that the octave structure adds 1 each new level (so this octave would be Red-Violet, octave after this would be Orange-WhatsAfterViolet) but I'm strongly not sure you're making a correct transition conceptually.  We have 8 Layers, Red through Violet plus the first of the next octave, which I imagine Violet blends into as much as blue goes into indigo.  (Hell, my entire octave structure once thought the way you describe that since the Primary Colors go, by plain-sight sense, Red-Yellow-Blue-Violet, yet Violet is clearly Red and Blue, the first and last, with Indigo being the necessity needed, or the Form Maker, making transition to Violet possible at all, both figuratively and literally, so I assumed the next octave would add another layer of subs with the other layers acquiring further refining in the next macro/octave).  But I have retired that way of thinking when I discovered we don't have 7 chakras, but closer to infinite chakras due to the depth of the octave manner of creation providing to us, as we lay, sit, or stand and read this our body alone just to name off a few, has a Mental and Emotional body which has it's own chakras nested with the chakras we have.  This is why our Chakra's have Chakras.  We go from 7th into 8th density then from 8th we go into the next octave back to 1st, some refer to more dimensions within the octave, I honestly believe them to correspond to the next level up octave, so 9th dimension would be 2nd density in the next octave.

A lot of people believe that 7th density beings lose all individuality, I think this is not wrong, but not fully correct.  There's a guide in a book coauthored by Carla called the Aaron/Quo Dialogues who goes by Aaron, (probably noticed me just thinking his name), who retains a connection to individuality, who still can switch between going into the all or pulling out to work individually.  The mechanics I have no idea, but this alone tells me that it's not complete loss of memory, if anything, it's probably just so...small compared to the All, it's easy to just not be that individuality, while still holding onto that identity, or if not holding onto, being able to return to an individual status to operate in other ways.

I think it implies we will one day make up the very existence we find ourselves in and still remain, aware of who we were, up to a point where such remembrance would be a hindrance, where it being completely known is no longer needed, falls away as the moving upward the spiral continues.  Like a Consciousness that is in itself aware but constantly picking up and letting go new aspects to continually evolve.  Which really in such concept, would be hilarious that we go to this 3rd density to deliberately forget everything to better Be.  Though it still makes sense to me.

So, I'm not sure if you're right or I am, but I imagine either way is still useable logically in the context of usefully and efficaciously being applicable to how things occur now.  (I mean honestly as far as I know, 3rd density bodies and 4th density bodies may have completely different chakras in a similar manner of progression with your view, with my view only being correct in the context of certain octaves do act that way, while others may act your way of explanation.  I do not know, I'm not saying you're wrong, but worried you may be in an odd area along with me on this subject~)

As far as the development of Space and Time, I honestly have a backwards theory on that.  In terms of it coming into being, I think it was simply manifested along with the rest of the Holographic Universe (how can time be holographic...?)  So if it does exist, I wonder if the universe will get to a point of no longer needing time or space in concept, and will instead work on creating time and space for another universe that will continue the line infinitely to continue growth downwards, but keep it moving presently/upwards, so that further work can be pursued upwards to continue growth.

With the One being less attached or detached to space and time, but rather the many One's creating it for themselves in another place, in another way.

I'm sorry.  I'm having a hard time working this.  Imagine the Ouroboros, imagine Light spiraling around it clockwise, now realize on the mirror side that light is spiraling counterclockwise, but being mirrored it isn't different, just perspectively different.  If the Ouroboros creates itself, then that moving spiraling light in both directions (clockwise, counterclockwise, forward, backward, up, down, right, left, Future, Past) Is all the same thing creating itself.

My opinion, Space and Time was created by us to experience, by an us in the future perspective of our own, at a place where time and space aren't occurring.

When you remove Time and Space for Infinite Simultaneity, paradoxes do disappear in place for Recursive Resolutions.  The cyclical mannerism of the Universe applies for Time and Space as well, if there was a placement in that cycle where Time and Space cease (or a cycle without time or space...but more reactionary to experiences/occurrences that is intelligent further than us) then I imagine us, being infinite, and eternal, would be the creators of such, and I imagine us, being infinite, and eternal, would one day come upon such occurrences in new ways that we wouldn't even suspect or recognize as our own doing.

As far as Octaves go, there might be a Sub-Octave (or very well an entire Octave) where Time and Space are conjured.  I think it'd be closer to a Spacetime/Timespace octave where the Holographic Universe begins to be formed.  I'd say if anything, it happened more Octave's ago than we'd probably be comfortable (as Humans) looking back at.

[VanAlioSaldo]

This is why I should read through the whole thread...I see you already understand what I just typed out.

I think Polarity is an appropriate view of space and time. Or Spacetime or Timespace. As everything is polarized in a sense. It's all on the One-scale, it's all equal to another equally within that One-scale I call the Infinity-Scale. Or the Tree of Being, a clear middle expanding outwards in all directions, pulling inwards in all directions, creating an in, an out, a present (Moment) and such. Or the Flower of Life image basically.

Conceptually (which I personally think is a level of beingness itself) polarity creates the interactions with everything, while Love and Light make it possible. We polarize to evolve, we polarize to learn, to grow, to move onward and continue. We can polarize in more than one way with the same end result.

Time and Space. What exists when you take out Space, and what remains when you remove Time? I have a hard time with this thought because I have a very hard time differentiating Time and Space as separate. I see Time as the Movement, and Space as the Moving, so when one is Still...Well one can't be still, the manner of vibration implies you can only reach for another level of frequency. When one is motionless, it allows the Moving to finally find itself, and it allows the Movement to change in terms of occurring externally, to occurring inwardly.

Time is perspective. Space is perspective. We could very well be our own Creators.

[Minyatur]

@VanAlioSaldo

Interresting read, here are some of my thoughts.

The loss of individuality does seem misguiding. To this I perceive that the Earth for exemple despite being in unity with the rest of the Universe is still just one planet among the All and not all astral bodies. As such I do believe when we reach 7D we would be more likely to loose our individuality in term of desired polarity and not in term of our path ending. I do believe each of our paths are infinite in themselves and as we become bigger and bigger incarnations of the Creator, we never truly and fully rejoin the One despite always being part of it. We are infinite only by never ending and only by never ending could we hope to reach Infinity.

About the structure of Octave, I am unsure about this in my thoughts. Either as you said this Universe as part of the Octave has a beginning and an end, that was my first way of seeing things. Or it is possible that this Universe always was and will always be. It is like a playground for consciousnesses to emerge from the previous Octave and to work their way to the next Octave. Everything within it may change with time as new consciousnesses grow and take their place in the always higher order of things, enabling what was taking care of it to move on to their own next stage. There could be infinite Universes, all hosting through time and space infinite consciousnesses ever emerging within this Octave.

To me time and space are merely convenient parameters for experience. They are needed for a non-still unity in the seeming.


About your second post, I do not have any thoughts to add.

[Minyatur]

The Key of Time (part of it) - Thoth Tablets

Then to me spoke HE, the Master:

Know ye, O Thoth, in the beginning
there was VOID and nothingness,
a timeless, spaceless, nothingness.
And into the nothingness came a thought,
purposeful, all-pervading,
and It filled the VOID.
There existed no matter, only force,
a movement, a vortex, or vibration
of the purposeful thought
that filled the VOID.
And I questioned the Master, saying:
Was this thought eternal?
And answered me the DWELLER, Saying:
In the beginning, there was eternal thought,
and for thought to be eternal, time must exist.
So into the all-pervading thought
grew the LAW of TIME.
Aye time which exists through all space,
floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement
that is eternally in a state of fixation.

Time changes not,
but all things change in time.
For time is the force
that holds events separate,
each in its own proper place.
Time is not in motion,
but ye move through time 
as your consciousness
moves from one event to another.

Aye, by time yet exist, all in all,
an eternal ONE existence.
Know ye that even though in the time ye are separate,
yet still are ONE, in all times existent.

[VanAlioSaldo]

@VanAlioSaldo

Interresting read, here are some of my thoughts.

The loss of individuality does seem misguiding. To this I perceive that the Earth for exemple despite being in unity with the rest of the Universe is still just one planet among the All and not all astral bodies. As such I do believe when we reach 7D we would be more likely to loose our individuality in term of desired polarity and not in term of our path ending. I do believe each of our paths are infinite in themselves and as we become bigger and bigger incarnations of the Creator, we never truly and fully rejoin the One despite always being part of it. We are infinite only by never ending and only by never ending could we hope to reach Infinity.

About the structure of Octave, I am unsure about this in my thoughts. Either as you said this Universe as part of the Octave has a beginning and an end, that was my first way of seeing things. Or it is possible that this Universe always was and will always be. It is like a playground for consciousnesses to emerge from the previous Octave and to work their way to the next Octave. Everything within it may change with time as new consciousnesses grow and take their place in the always higher order of things, enabling what was taking care of it to move on to their own next stage. There could be infinite Universes, all hosting through time and space infinite consciousnesses ever emerging within this Octave.

To me time and space are merely convenient parameters for experience. They are needed for a non-still unity in the seeming.


About your second post, I do not have any thoughts to add.

Regarding the Bolded, Ra has stated that the Creator does at times fully coalesce back into One being to once more re-create the Original Thought with more refining put into it (Which they did not add, but I speculate is done using the prior experience fully acquired to the extent available).

But in my opinion, you may not truly be wrong.  And in a sense, I think everyone's path may lead to their own unique places only available for them in some aspects and ways to add to the whole, which in time being fortified to the whole becomes a portion possibly to be used later on to continue growth.  A better way may be found, but in terms of Infinity, it sounds like we need to understand existence outside of space and time to begin comprehending the true ways the Creator acts to know and discover those completely unknown aspects.

If anything, you could look at it as The One Infinite IS Creation creating Itself or the ALL making ALL possible because it's a part of the ALL but doesn't know all of the ALL.  Thus once aware the path could lead to becoming one with the Creator on one's own time, or becoming so lost in Creation (lost as in exploring) that you forget to even search for a Source, perceiving Source as already present.

Or perhaps Existence is much more...Farther Reaching in terms of where we can go and possibly experience.  Honestly, the odd thing about your bolded statement is is resonated with me, but not for me (that was a first.) which tells me it's true, but not for me.

which tells me by intelligence applied alone, there's more than one Long-Winding path to go down, we simply direct ourselves with our desire and lead with our intentions.

So, I think when we talk of these concepts, it'd be helpful to keep in mind that we're talking about a very small portion of the potentially possible whole of occurrences within one small 'framing' of perspective if you will allow me to 'frame' aspects of Infinity as if they were individuated by a border (for the sake of Human perspective, I call the border square shaped)  And inside that border are infinite borders, and the border itself is one of many infinite borders located inside bigger borders.

Infinity and the octave setup imply a blending gradual, with some jumping/springboard points, of evolution forward and backwards as far as our perspective of Time cares to allow us to describe (see the final episode of Star Trek TNG).  Why are we evolving to discover the nature/being/beingness of the Infinite Creator?  I never got why we never thought of that.  Time isn't just forward moving.  If there's an infinite set up of time, then on some dimension somewhere, time moves backwards normally as if it were moving forwards. Which if this is actually possible in any dimension (yay infinity) then it'd also allow us to very easily figure out how time, space, or anything was first formulated, especially if it was done so by much more advanced beings who utilized a backwards moving time-format of linearity to provide the overall set up for the forward advancing time-format linearity. Like, a Doctor Who character who experiences time in reverse as if it were normal for them and experiences existence as seemingly 'unevolving', but in this context, the being who experiences the unevolving existence also has the capability to provide the Love/Light Configurations to create such things as Time and Space to begin experiencing once they reach the end of their backwards linear progression. (this set up...Actually resolves many questions for me so I hope it's true in a way.)

I have wondered if a Planetary Consciousness is akin to a mind/body/spirit complex consciousness in terms OF consciousness and mechanics.  Some areas seem to match up (such as global warming being caused by incongruent thoughtforms in the social memory complex on Earth not too different from incongruent thoughts or occurrences causing the body to warm up) but beyond that, the consciousness of the planet seems mostly unspoken of.  I wonder if the planet, which has all 7 layers of beingness just like us, and a chakra system like us, is also self-aware like us and capable of...I don't know.  Communication?

Can I talk to Earth?  Or would we call Nature, Earth?

I like this conversation, why are you so fun to talk to?

[VanAlioSaldo]

Why are we evolving to discover the nature/Being/beingness of the Infinite Creator?

To add some context behind this question.  How does the process of Evolving Spiritually lead one towards fulfilling the desire for the Creator to Re-Experience itself?

To explain.  I view 'beingness' as perhaps that potentiated energy, the 'Being' as the activated and manifested/manifesting/manifest or complete/whole in Beingness, with 'nature' as that identity and, or perhaps personality of unique personal bias, all of which is sought out by Adepts in search of perhaps such concepts as Source or the One?

Though I also get the image of a Fractal, kudos to Ra for that, and I realize our universe is also in a sense kaleidoscopic, thus the beginning of the Fractal would be in many places, and could possibly interact with each other from various points in time/space or possibly space/time (maybe not literally in the physical...Human Density?  Unless Doctor Who is reaal) or just overall overlap completely with itself (we all know the Flower of Life fractal) in the sense of we're all upward spiraling light in a distorted sense in any direction, whether from the future, past, or alongside the present at some future/past point from the current Moment of the...Overall...Well.  It's all in the Moment, just Continuum's are somewhat kept and maintained inside of the Moment in that sense that every consciousness's...consciousness would be experiencing the Moment.  That's Simultaneity for ya, let it wreck your brain for a few weeks    

[Minyatur]

Regarding the Bolded, Ra has stated that the Creator does at times fully coalesce back into One being to once more re-create the Original Thought with more refining put into it (Which they did not add, but I speculate is done using the prior experience fully acquired to the extent available).

But in my opinion, you may not truly be wrong.  And in a sense, I think everyone's path may lead to their own unique places only available for them in some aspects and ways to add to the whole, which in time being fortified to the whole becomes a portion possibly to be used later on to continue growth.  A better way may be found, but in terms of Infinity, it sounds like we need to understand existence outside of space and time to begin comprehending the true ways the Creator acts to know and discover those completely unknown aspects.

If anything, you could look at it as The One Infinite IS Creation creating Itself or the ALL making ALL possible because it's a part of the ALL but doesn't know all of the ALL.  Thus once aware the path could lead to becoming one with the Creator on one's own time, or becoming so lost in Creation (lost as in exploring) that you forget to even search for a Source, perceiving Source as already present.

Or perhaps Existence is much more...Farther Reaching in terms of where we can go and possibly experience.  Honestly, the odd thing about your bolded statement is is resonated with me, but not for me (that was a first.) which tells me it's true, but not for me.

which tells me by intelligence applied alone, there's more than one Long-Winding path to go down, we simply direct ourselves with our desire and lead with our intentions.

So, I think when we talk of these concepts, it'd be helpful to keep in mind that we're talking about a very small portion of the potentially possible whole of occurrences within one small 'framing' of perspective if you will allow me to 'frame' aspects of Infinity as if they were individuated by a border (for the sake of Human perspective, I call the border square shaped)  And inside that border are infinite borders, and the border itself is one of many infinite borders located inside bigger borders.

Infinity and the octave setup imply a blending gradual, with some jumping/springboard points, of evolution forward and backwards as far as our perspective of Time cares to allow us to describe (see the final episode of Star Trek TNG).  Why are we evolving to discover the nature/being/beingness of the Infinite Creator?  I never got why we never thought of that.  Time isn't just forward moving.  If there's an infinite set up of time, then on some dimension somewhere, time moves backwards normally as if it were moving forwards.  Which if this is actually possible in any dimension (yay infinity) then it'd also allow us to very easily figure out how time, space, or anything was first formulated, especially if it was done so by much more advanced beings who utilized a backwards moving time-format of linearity to provide the overall set up for the forward advancing time-format linearity.  Like, a Doctor Who character who experiences time in reverse as if it were normal for them and experiences existence as seemingly 'unevolving', but in this context, the being who experiences the unevolving existence also has the capability to provide the Love/Light Configurations to create such things as Time and Space to begin experiencing once they reach the end of their backwards linear progression.  (this set up...Actually resolves many questions for me so I hope it's true in a way.)

I have wondered if a Planetary Consciousness is akin to a mind/body/spirit complex consciousness in terms OF consciousness and mechanics.  Some areas seem to match up (such as global warming being caused by incongruent thoughtforms in the social memory complex on Earth not too different from incongruent thoughts or occurrences causing the body to warm up) but beyond that, the consciousness of the planet seems mostly unspoken of.  I wonder if the planet, which has all 7 layers of beingness just like us, and a chakra system like us, is also self-aware like us and capable of...I don't know.  Communication?

Can I talk to Earth?  Or would we call Nature, Earth?

I like this conversation, why are you so fun to talk to?

If the One Infinity is Intelligent then we all are the processing of that Intelligence. You could say that without time, all ends are known to the One Infinity just at the same time as they all begin. Including up to backward actions from the future toward the past.

About what you said about it resonating but not for you. The first idea that came to my mind was that you may have splitted yourself in different incarnations and as such you would perceive your self as only a temporary fragment of your true self. The second idea that came was that it is from the perspective of your 3D ego which knows it will die to blend in with what it knows it would become through not "dying" but continuing for a long time.

To me wandering seems like the easy practice that will lead toward helping "killing" our higher ego (higher self). So you could perceive that indeed you will never end but it won't truly be what you are as of now.

Infinity is a mind boggling thing of which we can only process something that is infinitely far from infinity.

About the Earth, a concept I've resonated strongly with is : As above, as bellow. I think some do talk with it or at least sub-portions of it. I never called to do that.

I might be fun to talk to because I'm a Gemini, or maybe we have talked with each other more than we currently know. What you said about being a tired philosopher did resonate with how I feel about myself, very tired and exhausted.

[Minyatur]

Why are we evolving to discover the nature/Being/beingness of the Infinite Creator?

To add some context behind this question.  How does the process of Evolving Spiritually lead one towards fulfilling the desire for the Creator to Re-Experience itself?

To explain.  I view 'beingness' as perhaps that potentiated energy, the 'Being' as the activated and manifested/manifesting/manifest or complete/whole in Beingness, with 'nature' as that identity and, or perhaps personality of unique personal bias, all of which is sought out by Adepts in search of perhaps such concepts as Source or the One?

Though I also get the image of a Fractal, kudos to Ra for that, and I realize our universe is also in a sense kaleidoscopic, thus the beginning of the Fractal would be in many places, and could possibly interact with each other from various points in time/space or possibly space/time (maybe not literally in the physical...Human Density?  Unless Doctor Who is reaal) or just overall overlap completely with itself (we all know the Flower of Life fractal) in the sense of we're all upward spiraling light in a distorted sense in any direction, whether from the future, past, or alongside the present at some future/past point from the current Moment of the...Overall...Well.  It's all in the Moment, just Continuum's are somewhat kept and maintained inside of the Moment in that sense that every consciousness's...consciousness would be experiencing the Moment.  That's Simultaneity for ya, let it wreck your brain for a few weeks    

To my understanding the "Present" is everywhen and everywhere. The "middle" or "center" of Infinity is also everywhere and everywhen. In such an idea, the only thing that can truly exist for us is relativity. Orientation, distances, directions, etc make no sense within Infinity but do make sense in a finite awareness of this Infinity. As such, Being in itself has no start nor ending because if it did, it would then become paradoxal as how it first came to be. Beingness can manifest because whether it is toward the future or toward the past, there is always something greater and something lesser. All of it is Being, and all of it Is at Once and as One. Fractals do indeed illustrate this perfectly.

So to answer the question of Why are we evolving to discover the nature/Being/beingness of the Infinite Creator?, I'd say because this evolution is the very nature of the Infinite Creator which creates Being from Beingness. The evolution of what was prior to us is what permit us to Be just as our evolution will permit lesser consciousnesses to also Be after us in this same stage we went through yet through a different experience than our own. Beingness is this very thing as a whole, the perfect clockwork which becomes manifested as Being. The nature of it, is the Will and this Will is what causes evolution. There never was a beginning, there never will be an end. All sides are ever growing from each possible relative awareness within the Whole. From outside relative awareness, there is only One Infinity.

The Creator will know Itself, but the Creator creates something to know of Itself from. Some could ask why is there evil? The answer is simply because it was thought of within Infinity. The thought creates the experience from which intelligence is distilled. This applies to anything in existence.

[Minyatur]

If you want to speak of the nature of evolution as the Creator of Itself, this is a very insightful quote (yay thoth tablets again)

(part of) Key to Above and Bellow

The consciousness below thee is ever-expanding 
in different ways from those known to thee. 
Aye, it, though in space-time below thee, 
is ever growing in ways that are different from 
those that were part of the ways of thine own. 
For know that it grows as a result of thy growth 
but not in the same way that thou didst grow. 
The growth that thou had and have in the present 
have brought into being a cause and effect. 
No consciousness follows the path of those before it, 
else all would be repetition and vain. 
Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in 
follows its own path to the ultimate goal. 
Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos. 
Each plays its part in the ultimate end. 
The farther the cycle, the greater its 
knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole.

Know ye, that ye in the cycles below us 
are working the minor parts of the Law, 
while we of the cycle that extends to Infinity 
take of the striving and build greater Law.
Each has his own part to play in the cycles. 
Each has his work to complete in his way. 
The cycle below thee is yet not below thee 
but only formed for a need that exists. 
For know ye that the fountain of wisdom 
that sends forth the cycles is eternally 
seeking new powers to gain. 
Ye know that knowledge is gained only by practice,
and wisdom comes forth only from knowledge, 
and thus are the cycles created by Law. 
Means are they for the gaining of knowledge 
for the Plane of Law that is the Source of the All. 
The cycle below is not truly below but only 
different in space and in time. 
The consciousness there is working and 
testing lesser things than those ye are. 
And know, just as ye are working on greater, 
so above ye are those who are also working 
as ye are on yet other laws. 
The difference that exists between the cycles
is only in ability to work with the Law. 
We, who have being in cycles beyond thee, 
are those who first came forth from the 
Source and have in the passage through 
time-space gained ability to use 
Laws of the Greater that are far beyond 
the conception of man. 
Nothing there is that is really below thee 
but only a different operation of Law.
Look thee above or look thee below, 
the same shall ye find. 
For all is but part of the Oneness 
that is at the Source of the Law. 
The consciousness below thee is 
part thine own as we are a part of thine.

[Minyatur]

Since you spoke of Doctor Who, this is by far the most accurate description of time 

[VanAlioSaldo]

Oh boy lol
Don't derail the thread with the Doctor's shenanigans!

I think we've a pretty good handle on this Infinity business.

To just posit an interesting dream...I had a dream about an Infinity Particle, that was Creation itself in a single viewable particle that was perfectly ratioed out mathematically to be the size of about a pea intelligently. But it sparkled and sparked, and was in essence Alive and Aware but was intently focusing within itself, in the process throwing off more of itself that it created in its intent focusing in the process of sparkling and sparking.

[Minyatur]

Oh boy lol
Don't derail the thread with the Doctor's shenanigans!

I think we've a pretty good handle on this Infinity business.

To just posit an interesting dream...I had a dream about an Infinity Particle, that was Creation itself in a single viewable particle that was perfectly ratioed out mathematically to be the size of about a pea intelligently.  But it sparkled and sparked, and was in essence Alive and Aware but was intently focusing within itself, in the process throwing off more of itself that it created in its intent focusing in the process of sparkling and sparking.

What do you mean by "throwing off more of itself that it created in its intent"?

[VanAlioSaldo]

Its like light makes light. It sparked rather than omnidirectionally spread though.

Like, in the movements within, it caused the whole to deposit energy around it. The innard effecting the outer. But the movement is done by its own intentions.

Seems a good analogy for something specific.

[Minyatur]

I've thought of something regarding existence in regard to simultaneity, time and space..

Picture if you will that when you emerge into existence within this Octave, you come with a full set of imbalances which are part of your Higher Self. These imbalances are what separate your awareness from your own Higher Self.

As such you cannot perceive the undistorted Higher Self, all you are able to do is simply channel some of it's imbalances at a time. Through time (a full lot of time) and through resonating spaces, you work out in awareness all of these imbalances to come to perceive your true undistorted self which then blends within Unity in awareness.

As such the first distortion would truly be Free Will as you could only be in a place that resonate with your Higher Self imbalances for you to channel them.

As such our whole path always was one or one set of some sort, only that it is spread throughout time and space for awareness to experience this unique blend of imbalances.

I know this has been said already in other manners, but I liked this way of stating things.

[VanAlioSaldo]

I can't say its not right or wrong.

It may be one way we come in, or may even be the way we leave.

So then would you say its almost like free will allows for experiences that can be comparable to predestination but still allows for free will to decide what destination we desire to manifest?