What is everyone's gut feeling on 2012?

[Richard]

βαθμιαίος Wrote:

We didn't come here to learn. We came here to choose.

Yes...but there is not a single choice. Every second, every minute of every day is "The Choice" in one form or another.

"The Choice" is the reaction to the catalyst of day to day living. I don't believe one can simply say.." I choose the light" , but not walk the walk.


Richard

Thank you, Richard. This resonates with me... to chose to respond with love each and every moment... this is where the challenge is...
fairyfarmgirl

FairyFarm Girl,

Here is the original quote from the 1-11-1998 Channelling

This consciousness cannot be brought completely
into the illusion, for this consciousness that you are
is all that there is. To bring all of self into the
illusion would be to erase the illusion, and this
illusion creates for each of you other selves to relate
to in order that you work upon yourself by
reflection. Lost in the running of the everyday chores
you make choice after choice after choice, in little
ways and in larger ways, and when those choices are
easy and obvious the polarization value of them is
measured. Those moments when you discover
yourself being or acting in an unpredicted or
unpredictable way are little nuggets, little treasures.
For this personality shell that you are was carefully
chosen to contain those gifts and limitations of
character and personality that will best serve you at
this time. The material before you, the relationships
in your life, all of these things you gave yourself as
gifts. Some of them gifts to wallow in with pleasure,
some of them gifts to challenge yourself. And the
entity unknowing is the entity at the cusp of choice.

Richard

[Quantum]

I originally posted this reply on 2-01-09 also on 'The Harvest' but on "3rd density time and precesssion" and thought it might lend a helpful insight to the subject.

If allowed a longer post than normal, perhaps this may assist slightly, and take another direction:

Dictionary.com definition of equinox: The earlier occurrence of each successive equinox in each successive sidereal year is due to the slow retrograde motion of the equinoctial points along the ecliptic, caused by the precession of the earth's axis of rotation. A complete precession of the equinoxes requires about 25,000 years.

There are twelve signs in the Zodiac (astrology) represented to this day as the twelve constellations (astronomy). Each year the sun passes entirely around the one zodiac constellation, and returns to the point from which it started, called the vernal equinox. However each year it falls just a little short of making the complete circle of the heavens in the allotted period of time. As a result, it crosses the equator just a little behind the spot in the same zodiacal sign where it crossed the previous year. Given each sign of the zodiac (twelve) consists of thirty degrees, and as the sun loses about one degree every seventy two years, it regresses through one entire constellation (or sign) in approximately 2,160 years, and through the entire zodiac (twelve) in more or less exactly 25,920 years...but whose counting when rounding off?

Said another way:
1. 12 signs x 2,160 years = 25,960 years (Ra presumably also rounded off at 25,000 years...maybe tapping into dictionary.com before it even was - lol). It's important that we not stumble on pin-point numbers and math, less we seek the detail of the brush stroke but missing the picture, painting, and message.
2. 25,960 years equals one revolution of our sun around the central sun called a Solar year.
3. Three revolutions x 25,960 = 77,760 years (Ra presumably rounds off again at 75,000 years).
4. The sun rises and sets in each constellation for approximately 2,160 years, until regressing to the next constellation for the same approx 2,160 years, etc, for all twelve constellations = 25,000-ish years.

This means the course of about 25,000 years constitutes one Great Solar Year, the time required for our Sun to revolve once around it's sun called the "Great Sun/Central Sun" - i.e. the middle of the Galaxy Milky Way, around which all other suns in this galaxy, approx 250 billion revolve. Each one of the twelve constellations (based on Zodiac Signs) occupies a position at the vernal equinox for nearly 2,000 (2,160 to be specific) years, yielding then to the previous sign.

For nearly the past 2,000 years the sun has crossed the equator at the vernal equinox in the constellation of Pisces (the Two Fishes). For the 2,160 years before that it crossed through the constellation of Aries (the Ram). Prior to that the vernal equinox was in the sign of Taurus (the Bull). Going now forward: 2000 years after Pisces (now ending), the sun will rise and cross in the vernal equinox of Aquarius in 2012. As the song goes: "This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, where Peace and Love shall guide the planets.."

Among the ancients the sun was always symbolized by the figure and nature of the constellation through which it passed at that time in the vernal equinox ( i.e Taurus the Bull = during the time of planting, etc.). Translating this to an earthly experience from astrology to astronomy to physical reality, history then looks something like this: Moses comes down from Mount Sinai with the 10 Commandments, is horrified to see his people worshiping a golden bull calf, shatters the stone tablets as a result and instructs his people to kill each other in order to purify themselves. Most Biblical scholars would attribute this temper tantrum to the fact that the Israelites were worshiping a false idol. The reality is that the golden bull is Taurus the Bull (the past age), and Moses was representing the New Age coming of Aries the Ram as the next age coming. The Ram (Moses representing same) is replacing the Bull. This is why even today the Jews still blow the Ram's horn. Moses represents the New Age of Aries, and upon the New Age, everyone must shed the old age. Jesus in turn is the figure who ushers in the age following Aries, the Age of Pisces, the Two Fish. He too brought in a new way and manner of thinking, as much as a New Age. It was represented by bringing in The New Testament as adding from The Old Testament, and ushering in a New Religion in the process...Christianity. Fish symbolism is abundant in the New Testament. Jesus feeds 5000 people with bread and "2 fish". The Catholic Priest to this day wears the Two Fishes on their robes during mass and services. The Christian proudly displays the two fishes on his bumper to signify he is Christian. When he begins his ministry walking along Galilee, Jesus befriends 2 fisherman, who follow him. These Christian symbols all have their origins in deeper mystical/esoteric/pagan/astrological symbolism of the Sun's Kingdom (astrology) during the Age of Pisces. Jesus' assumed birth date (Dec 25th = Winter Solstice) is essentially the start of this age. There is far far more that may be referenced to this as an entire subject matter of it's own.

Suffice it to say that it may lend itself to a whole new thread if interested as relates to the Law of One.

Now, going forward once again, and from Jesus himself in Luke 22:10 when Jesus is asked by his disciples where the next passover (New Age) will be, Jesus replied: "Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in." Putting religion aside entirely, the scripture may be seen, if gazed upon correctly, not necessarily as a simple historical account, nor just a Christian Book, but in fact a manual to Higher Consciousness if allowed to be seen in a grander manner (would this not make sense...in a sense?), and thus is by far one of the most revealing of books of all the astrological references. The man bearing a pitcher of water is Aquarius, the water-bearer, who is always pictured as a man pouring out a pitcher of water. The pitcher bearer (Aquarius) represents the age after Pisces, when the Sun (God's Sun) will leave the Age of Pisces (Jesus) in the year 2012, and will go into the House of Aquarius, as Aquarius follows Pisces in the precession of the equinoxes.

As an exercise, we may now traverse forward through all of Christianity, and it's characters, and mark the Ages of each of the 2,160 years of the precession of equinoxes from Taurus, to Aries, to Pisces, to Aquarius now coming in 2012, as much as we may name the figures of the 2,160 years of the equinox in each age. If going forward, Moses represented Aries for roughly 2,000 years, and Jesus represented Pisces for roughly 2,000 years, and 2012 is now Aquarius coming, then going backwards from Moses, the question becomes which characters in Christianity represented the 2,000 years of Taurus/Gemini/Cancer Ages in Christianity, each for 2,000 years? It lends whole new meaning as stated in scripture "In Heaven as on Earth."

Forgive again the length of this post, but I thought it might be worth lifting and placing here given the number of views this thread has attracted and perhaps to lend as a perspective from various materials printed and out there.

Humbly,

Q

[fairyfarmgirl]

So timely, Q: my time stamp in the EST zone reads 11:11...

fairyfarmgirl

[Monica]

Thanks for explaining the biblical correlations, Q. I know there are correlations in the Bhagavad Gita as well, and of course Hopi prophecies, etc.

[ubergud]

Thanks Quantum. This sounds similar to information I had seen from Jordan Maxwell along the way in my web research.

[micjer]

Yes Quantum this resonates with me. Very good research. There seems to be more and more people / info that backs up this theory. It appears there is much info in the bible but it is written metaphorically so it is up to us to interpret the true meaning.

[Quantum]

Thanks for explaining the biblical correlations, Q. I know there are correlations in the Bhagavad Gita as well, and of course Hopi prophecies, etc.

Thanks Quantum. This sounds similar to information I had seen from Jordan Maxwell along the way in my web research.

Yes Quantum this resonates with me. Very good research. There seems to be more and more people / info that backs up this theory. It appears there is much info in the bible but it is written metaphorically so it is up to us to interpret the true meaning.

It might be said that Life itself is a metaphor, if you will. Perhaps, a metaphor for the Spirit. It would stand to reason then, as Monica shared, that the metaphor would be in all the great scriptural works of each religion, shared only in a different manner for a different culture in a different time, but always the same story of sorts. This is why one single author, whether able to speak in the tongues of angels, or simply write profusely on a subject of this sort, is no better the vessel than is the next. The metaphor as a result resonates, redounds, and rebounds from myth, to religion, to fairy tales as much as children's allegories, always in a manner telling the story of the Hero, the Grail search, the seeking of the Fleece, or the Tin Man searching for his heart, as much as the Lion for his courage, or Dorothy for home, as much as the Prodigal Son, as much as the lost Tribe of Israel, as much as the story of Job from the Old Testament. We are all the Pilgrims, and the Hero, and the Vagabonds wandering through the Universe, our home, seeking to be restored as rightful heirs to our throne, which we are in fact seated on and don't remember so. As Christ stated: "Know Ye not that Ye are Gods?"

Q

[micjer]

Speaking of the wizard of oz watch this little clip and think of the real meaning of what is being told to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11BQQvVy8LI&NR=1

---

Wow Quantum. Did you notice the time of your post #152?

my computer says 11:11 , confirmation of the truth in my books.

[Richard]

Quantum wrote:

It might be said that Life itself is a metaphor, if you will. Perhaps, a metaphor for the Spirit. It would stand to reason then, as Monica shared, that the metaphor would be in all the great scriptural works of each religion, shared only in a different manner for a different culture in a different time, but always the same story of sorts.

I think "all" religions, all "belief" systems...LOO included, are metaphors for attempting to explain the unexplainable. Even at Ra's and Quo's advanced stages, they are still using their own metaphor to describe an infinite journey to the source. If we, as Quo seems to say, cannot comprehend the full essense of the 4th dimensional experience...it very well may be as much a mystery to the Ra energies to experience to the next stage.

They attempt to assist us having..walked?..LOL...our road. But thier advancement is as much a metaphor as ours is. We are all in the same boat...but our staterooms a few decks down.

Richard

[Quantum]

Quantum wrote:
It might be said that Life itself is a metaphor, if you will. Perhaps, a metaphor for the Spirit. It would stand to reason then, as Monica shared, that the metaphor would be in all the great scriptural works of each religion, shared only in a different manner for a different culture in a different time, but always the same story of sorts.

I think "all" religions, all "belief" systems...LOO included, are metaphors for attempting to explain the unexplainable. Even at Ra's and Quo's advanced stages, they are still using their own metaphor to describe an infinite journey to the source. If we, as Quo seems to say, cannot comprehend the full essense of the 4th dimensional experience...it very well may be as much a mystery to the Ra energies to experience to the next stage.

They attempt to assist us having..walked?..LOL...our road. But their advancement is as much a metaphor as ours is. We are all in the same boat...but our staterooms a few decks down.

Richard

Nice poetic note from you micjer as relates to the the Oz youtube clip. Thank you. And to you Richard, as nice of a metaphor above of 'all being in the same boat but in staterooms at lower levels'. As to your statement, also above, "it very well may be as much a mystery to the Ra energies to experience the next stage", it seems that you may indeed rest assured that your radar intuiter is functioning at maximum output as noted in the Ra quote below.

Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

It seems by virtue of Ra themselves that we may infer that we can peer no further than into the very point we presently are and find ourselves in...i.e., now(?). Now, this brings up an interesting point, if not at least a subtle consideration. If the the next octave which moves into a mystery Ra does not plumb (eighth, one simple density above their own), then what does this say about our desire(s) to plumb into densities beyond our own humble reach, and as many as several more beyond our simple grasps behind that? Although we dare, do we simply do so for entertainment purposes? Is there a value in the attempt, or may it be a distraction from fully and completely engaging in this the third?

Or is it that eighth holds a special coordinate by virtue of it being what we in 3rd have assumed is last? But, it is not last, by virtue of octaves (and presumably densities) being infinite? We know this from the readings, and even more so that Ra (yes Ra) has teachers by the following:

Questioner: Are you saying then that there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.


Now, heres the Krazy part (and I mean crazy with a "k").
If all consciousness periodically coalesces, and again begins anew, is it possible we've even done this before...all of it (?), as in the whole "THIS" of 1-8, and infinitely forward to more 1-8's, ultimately coalescing, merging, and beginning anew all over again (?), just to do it again, and again, and again?

There would seem little purpose in simply running circles of repetition ad nauseum. If I would get bored in this, I imagine the Creator would tire of it on an even grander scale of incomprehensible doldrums. So, perhaps we do it from yet ever higher levels of 1-8's forever (?), spinning and progressing on ever higher spirals, rather than repetitious repeating circles, ever higher, ever forward, and forever onward?

It would seem so by virtue of Ra's words above. Thank you for stimulating the dizzying-ness effect by stimulating the question Richard, and to you micjer for prodding me to Oz in thought.

Blown away, dizzy from the maybe's, and gleefully lost in the conjectures.....:idea:

Q

[ayadew]

Quantum: That is quite mind-blowing! Haha. Very nicely put... This possibility exists, together with all others, that there might be a higher being governing this system. One might play with the thought of that the 8th octave is the first octave in another system, which basics we cannot begin to comprehend, and that our reality is merely a creation of an entity in 8th octave together with an infinite amount of other entities creating other systems, and so we have an infinite amount of systems, and so the individual growth and consciousness also spins towards infinity an infinite times.

Aah, the madness goes towards infinity

[3D Sunset]

There would seem little purpose in simply running circles of repetition ad nauseum. If I would get bored in this, I imagine the Creator would tire of it on an even grander scale of incomprehensible doldrums. So, perhaps we do it from yet ever higher levels of 1-8's forever (?), spinning and progressing on ever higher spirals, rather than repetitious repeating circles, ever higher, ever forward, and forever onward?

Hello again, my good friend Q,

I have a few passing thoughts on this.

First, the concept of "the great breath of the creator" having been exhaled (or created and experienced), must periodically be inhaled (or destroyed and distilled), is one which redounds through many religious teachings and is indeed, albeit superficially, one of the great quests of modern cosmology (that being determining if the universe is open, closed, or flat). It is entertaining to me to watch the astronomers and physicists toil with the counting of particles of matter to determine if it exists in sufficient quantity to cause gravity to overcome the expansive nature of the universe (in physics, this is known, appropriately, as the "omega point" - if omega >1 then the universe will contract into the "the big crunch", and if omega is <=1, then the universe will expand indefinitely.) At present, the best estimates are that omega is between 0.3 and just slightly over 1. It's a little like watching a football game that I know is rigged. The entertainment here lies in the process, not in the inevitable outcome.

Second, as to the densities beyond 8, recall that we do have occasional interaction with those of higher densities, who are apparently able to transcend the octavinal (new word) divide. Most notably, and pertinent in the near future, are the light bringers who ensure that the steps of light, traversed at the harvest are perfectly tuned. What wonders must they know, and how subtle is their light! See below (the specific reference is emphasized)

Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish. There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or higher self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

Finally, I think it is vital while contemplating the next octave, to bear in mind the importance of extracting every last drop, if you will, of experience from each action, thought and interaction that every co-creator has during every incarnation. This distillation process begins in the life review after death, but continues on through the end of sixth density, at which point the "looking back" is completed and the seventh density entity "turns" toward reunification with the creator. It is this distilled experience that is the prize we bring the one Creator at the time of our reunification.

So, I see the regular progression of mind/body/spirit complex totalities through the gateway 7th octave into the next higher octave. But I also see the periodic reintegration of the entire universe into unity from which an entirely different, amazing, and wonderful universe may be formed. This latter and grander unification is one which may be accomplished only after every last drop of experience of the current universe has been distilled and savored by the One Creator. Then comes the time to tear it down and start anew.

3D Sunset

[Richard]

Quantum wrote:

There would seem little purpose in simply running circles of repetition ad nauseum. If I would get bored in this, I imagine the Creator would tire of it on an even grander scale of incomprehensible doldrums. So, perhaps we do it from yet ever higher levels of 1-8's forever (?), spinning and progressing on ever higher spirals, rather than repetitious repeating circles, ever higher, ever forward, and forever onward?

Quantum,

How do we know what bores the creator? I'm thinking you had tongue firmly planted in cheek when you wrote that. But ascribing human feelings to an infinite entity that is experiencing "everything" all at once? Every moment, past, present, future in all octaves and dimensions?

I don't know...sounds pretty exciting to me.

Richard

[Quantum]

There would seem little purpose in simply running circles of repetition ad nauseum. If I would get bored in this, I imagine the Creator would tire of it on an even grander scale of incomprehensible doldrums. So, perhaps we do it from yet ever higher levels of 1-8's forever (?), spinning and progressing on ever higher spirals, rather than repetitious repeating circles, ever higher, ever forward, and forever onward?

Hello again, my good friend Q,

I have a few passing thoughts on this.

First, the concept of "the great breath of the creator" having been exhaled (or created and experienced), must periodically be inhaled (or destroyed and distilled), is one which redounds through many religious teachings and is indeed, albeit superficially, one of the great quests of modern cosmology...

Second, as to the densities beyond 8, recall that we do have occasional interaction with those of higher densities, who are apparently able to transcend the octavinal (new word) divide. ...See below (the specific reference is emphasized)

Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish. There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or higher self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

.

So, I see the regular progression of mind/body/spirit complex totalities through the gateway 7th octave into the next higher octave. But I also see the periodic reintegration of the entire universe into unity from which an entirely different, amazing, and wonderful universe may be formed. This latter and grander unification is one which may be accomplished only after every last drop of experience of the current universe has been distilled and savored by the One Creator. Then comes the time to tear it down and start anew.

3D Sunset

As always Dear 3D,

It is refreshing to hear from you and your willingness to engage, this in conjunction with your searing insights. Thank you. Let us allow the examining, or my lack perhaps thereof, of the Ra quote you offer above. You state: "recall that we do have occasional interaction with those of higher densities, who are apparently able to transcend the octavinal (new word) divide." (Kudos on your creative word play btw). Let us divide and bifurcate, if you will, the two words of Octave and Density,one from the other, which are non-inclusive and distinct ( a-h-h-h language, because of course they are not). Are you confusing the transcendence of the Octivanals with my intent of the "Densitivanals?" (my new-new word for those densities beyond our eighth density - derived as an extension from your new word of Octivanals - lol).

Let us keep playing:

1. I can accept quite willingly your first concept of the Great Breath of the Creator of the Expiration "exhaled (or created and experienced), which must periodically be "inhaled" (or destroyed and distilled)" , from the Latin "Inspiratus" (to be inspired), or literally "On the Breath of God". I might only offer that rather than destroyed, that "Created Anew" is more inferred by Inspiratus, as in "Divinitus Inspiratus" - divinely breathed into.

2. Help me understand your second concept as regards what seems to be the mixing of definitions between octaves vs densities, this by referencing the Ra quote you offer, as explained and questioned further below?

3. In this Ra reference offered, they state: "The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers" . By this I understand Ra to mean that the third group is 'simply one single octave' above their own, meaning either the Octave above the 7th that Ra is presently in is either still in 7th, but clearly at a higher Octave in 7th, or, even if Ra is in the 2nd to last Octave of 7/meaning 7th octave in 7th density (which I assume is the case from the readings), the Guardians are presumably in the last Octave of 7th/meaning 8th octave of 7th density, and consequently in the 1st Octave of 8th, which is technically not transcending Octaves or Densities yet (how many Angels dance on the head of a pin again?), this by virtue that the last of 7th and first of 8th are synonymous, analogous, and subsets of one and the same, if not at least two sides still of the same one coin? Picture the sound of the 8 octaves of a keyboard: Doe-Ra-Me-Fa-So-La-Tee-Doe, with Doe occupying the last note of the previous octave in simultaneity with the first note of the next octave. (side-note: I offered a post similar to this very topic of Octaves in the thread of 'Earth in 3D/7th Octave' on "Sessions In Focus", but this with only to date having attracted two responses. Perhaps we may take this subject of Octaves up (a note) here (pun intended), as there is scarcely any conversation to it anywhere, whereas to the converse there is much to the conversations on density, particularly of course as regards Earth moving to 4th).

Quantum wrote:

There would seem little purpose in simply running circles of repetition ad nauseum. If I would get bored in this, I imagine the Creator would tire of it on an even grander scale of incomprehensible doldrums. So, perhaps we do it from yet ever higher levels of 1-8's forever (?), spinning and progressing on ever higher spirals, rather than repetitious repeating circles, ever higher, ever forward, and forever onward?

Quantum,

How do we know what bores the creator? I'm thinking you had tongue firmly planted in cheek when you wrote that. But ascribing human feelings to an infinite entity that is experiencing "everything" all at once? Every moment, past, present, future in all octaves and dimensions?
I don't know...sounds pretty exciting to me.

Richard

I would offer that I am only "partly conjecturing" (see Ra below), this with said tongue in last octave of present density, and in simultaneity of 1st Octave of next, perhaps again with tongue once more firmly aligned against said cheek in duplicity. I can not of course know what bores the Creator, but I may assume I would surely get bored, and ergo that 'The Great IT' may as a consequence become as bored as well. IT either is infinity, or created infinity, which IT 'are' irrespectively 'is'. A repeating infinity (1-8), albeit different infinity, strikes me as a finite infinity, verses an infinite infinity (word play and good humor aside, I am in earnestness here).

I imagine Infinity in Spiraling Circles, spiraling ever upward infinitely, (think of the Ra teachings as relates to spirals, i.e. The Galaxies) as opposed to one unending circle forever repeating like a skip on a scratched record, albeit beginning ever new again, even if to play a new melody, unless of course the circle is so incomprehensibly large and Infinite that it has no beginning or no end, which brings us back to Square One, of Spirals being like an incomprehensible infinite circle (sorry for what may appear as the tongue and cheek thing again..but words are meant to be understood/misunderstood). All seriousness aside, to this question Richard, I would simply offer to you (and perhaps 3D) that indeed, there needn't at all be a simple repetitious repeat of the entire process of 1-8 and "then comes the time to tear it down and start anew", this to be understood only as the tearing down of 1-8 and beginning the same 1-8 all over again (albeit perhaps 'different'), as in "from which an entirely different, amazing, and wonderful universe may be formed", as you 3D I believe are offering (?), thus implying perhaps that all ceases and begins anew after the completion of 8, only to begin with 1-8 again? (Perhaps this is not at all what you meant 3D, as I seem to imply you seem to imply?).

Therefore I suggest, lets keep playing, and you may correct me, or agree with me by adding more:

To the converse, I would offer that there may exist an infinite number of Octaves as there are Densities, this well beyond our simple understanding of 1-8, tearing down, and beginning again anew. What if indeed our imagining (and even this as alas given by Ra verses our own imagining) simply ends in eighth? In other words, in spite of our infiniteness, we are cloaked in finiteness for the moment by choice, and thus we simply may perhaps be incapable of even beginning to imagine anything beyond this 8th octave. It may be argued that our understanding indeed ceases beyond our simple 3rd. It is then perhaps even far beyond our ability to plumb 4th as regards understanding, but not perhaps as regards the general ability to imagine a 4th in general. My point then is that perhaps even imagining itself is finite in a finite existence with a finite mind, this as a result of an infinite choice made to be same? And therefore imagining beyond 8 becomes almost inconceivable? It might be said that were we even able to simply just "imagine" anything beyond 4th, or 5th, or 6th, that we would then begin having the ability to pierce the Gateway to Intelligent Infinity. I submit we may not be able to even imagine same, and that if we could, we would already have pierced the veil.

What then in this context may come after 8th? What may we "imagine vs understand" after the Great Inspiration/On The Breath Of God/Inhalation/ Divintus Inspiratus? Is it possible that perhaps there is then a 9-16, and then 17-24, and 25-31, and through infinity to make the numbering and counting pointless, and all in the Holy Instant of Nowness in the Mind Of The Creator Logos? Given the Great Creator is in fact Intelligent Infinity Itself, as in 'Infinite Creation', why should we assume any less? Perhaps at the end of our eighth, it indeed begins anew spiraling to 9, to a depth which Ra does not even begin to plumb (even to eighth itself, much less beyond that). The counting becomes meaningless and acts simply as anchor for our need to assemble knowledge in logical and rationale format. The point may be said that there may exist infinite densities with infinite octaves, and whether at the end of 1-8 the anewness becomes 9 is as meaningless as suggesting it doesn't in an infinity. Logic may only take one to the precipice, at which point one must then walk the walk in faith by taking the leap, as only the Fool would do. But Ra does in fact state, and rather profoundly, as shared in my previous post state the following, allowing one to perhaps become the wiser Fool for the effort:

Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

In other words, Ra does not even dare to plumb even that one single density above their own (8) , and what it may hold.

Ra then states to Don's question the following:

Questioner: Are you saying then that there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume ""an infinite number of octaves"".

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression, though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

Infinite Octaves. Infinite Densities. How amazing. Why then would we consider limiting the infinite, or assume it as a repetitious cycle of the same repeating 1-8, verses an infinite number of 1-8's to the numbering of infinite densities into the gazillionth density and beyond, when Ra clearly points the finger to a True Unending Mystery into the Infinite of never ending Densities and never ending Octaves. See?

I remain blown away.....and thank both of you (3D and Richard) for stimulating these wonderful and continuing thoughts. The blade becomes ever sharper in these exercises like katas and shadow boxing. Therefore dear masters, challenges, continuances, and more prodding please, and the invitation for more and all masters to jump in. The water's just fine.

Q

[3D Sunset]

Are you confusing the transcendence of the Octivanals with my intent of the "Densitivanals?" (my new-new word for those densities beyond our eighth density - derived as an extension from your new word of Octivanals - lol).

Perhaps I am, as clearly Ra frequently uses the two terms interchangeably. I must say though, that each time I read that particular line, my intuitive interpretation is as I have stated, they are beyond this Octave (I will refer from now on to the big "O"ctave, or the mysterious next octave of existence as distinct from the little "o"ctave synonymous with density). There are other similarly ambiguous quotes that imply the Guardians are from beyond our Octave, for instance in the rather unique reference to the "8th dimension or octave" of the planet Saturn, in the following quote:

Questioner: Where is this Council located?

Ra: I am Ra. This Council is located in the octave, or eighth dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third dimension terms as the rings.

This is one of the occasions in which Ra seems to use "Dimensions" interchangeably with "Densities". My suspicion is that this is not happenstance, but I'm at a loss to explain its significance at present. He goes on to mention that the Guardians are 24 entities that "back up the Council", indicating that they are not of the council. So what does it mean to exist in the Octave or 8th dimension?

I might only offer that rather than destroyed, that "Created Anew" is more inferred by Inspiratus, as in "Divinitus Inspiratus" - divinely breathed into

Fair enough, I agree that looking at the creation from the perspective of inside the Creator is more logical and aesthetic than in my previous statement which looked from the perspective of outside the Creator. Thus, to inhale is to construct and expand, and to exhale is to compress or destroy. Yes, I do prefer that. Thank you Q.

By this I understand Ra to mean that the third group is 'simply one single octave' above their own, meaning either the Octave above the 7th that Ra is presently in is either still in 7th, but clearly at a higher Octave in 7th, or, even if Ra is in the 2nd to last Octave of 7, the Guardians are presumably in the last Octave of 7th/and consequently in the 1st Octave of 8th.

Hmmm, seems that we have a different perspective on the density or octave (little "o") of Ra. I have always been of the impression that Ra was of mid 6th density, just beyond the point where the polarities merge, but still striving toward the 7th.

Questioner: Of what density level is Ra?

Ra: I am Ra. I am sixth density with a strong seeking towards seventh density. The harvest for us will be in only approximately two and one-half million of your years and it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it approaches in our space/time continuum.

thus implying perhaps that all ceases and begins anew after the completion of 8, only to begin with 1-8 again? (Perhaps this is not at all what you meant 3D,as you seem to imply?).

No, not really. I do not propose to understand what exists beyond our current 3rd density, let alone beyond our Octave. I was merely stating that inherent in the process is that of building and destroying, all for the purpose of allowing the Creator to experience Himself (BTW, I readily agree that the term "Itself" is more politically correct, but that just sounds too sterile for me. So, please forgive me, all that are offended by this masculine reference, but to refer to the Creator experiencing Herself sounds a little to personal for my southern gentlemanly upbringing, and our Victorian heritage).

Indeed it is likely that in the next great breath there are 6 or 12 densities in an octave (septave? dodecave?). Still, to your point Q, within this great breath, it certainly is possible that individuated consciousnesses cycle repeatedly through this Octave (i.e., cycling through densities 1-7), much like they are reincarnated multiple times within each density.

Enough, I think, for now,

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

How wonderful to hear back so quickly my good 3D,

[quote='Quantum' pid='1870' dateline='1237785151']
Are you confusing the transcendence of the Octivanals with my intent of the "Densitivanals?" (my new-new word for those densities beyond our eighth density - derived as an extension from your new word of Octivanals - lol).

Perhaps I am, as clearly Ra frequently uses the two terms interchangeably.

I believe that indeed Ra's usage of density is analogous to our understanding of the word dimension, as each have been used interchangeably by them several times. But I believe density to be utilized more as regards consciousness within a dimension. For example, all creatures on earth, whether in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd density, exist in 3rd dimension. But 1st density exists as mineral (i.e. fire, water, earth, air, etc) albeit in 3rd dimension, as does 2nd density(i.e. plant/animal) albeit in 3rd dimension, as does man with his ability to self actualize as a result of self-consciousness, again albeit fully in 3rd density and in 3rd dimension. But, to the man with the greater consciousness earned by degree of integrity to the path is the greater light awarded in awareness, i.e. consciousness, and thus is he at a greater octave in 3rd density by vibration playing as if the "Tee" key (7th note), while his brethren still struggles playing the "Doe" key (first note) of the eight notes in the 3rd density with 8 octaves of Doe-Ra-Me-Fa-So-La-Tee-Doe. Vibration in this context is as good of a word as is octave, or note, as in the eight notes of an octave each scaling in higher pitch and tone as it reaches the next octave . All are partially activated in varying levels of 1-8 octaves, inclusive of man in 3rd density, as well as are the creatures more or less fully activated in 2nd density with 1-8 octaves, as are the "things"/elements activated in 1st density 1-8 octaves.

I must say though, that each time I read that particular line, my intuitive interpretation is as I have stated, they are beyond this Octave (I will refer from now on to the big "O"ctave, or the mysterious next octave of existence as distinct from the little "o"ctave synonymous with density).

I get the Big "O" verses the little "o"(no pun intended ladies), but you have lost me on two counts: (1) with "they" being Ra, or "they" being The Guadians? But "they" in both cases are irrespectively indeed beyond our Octave, as they are both well beyond our density as well. (2) Where you suggest that "o"ctave may be synonymous with density? It is not.

The question is, which "octave" are we(earth) in, not withstanding that we are in fact in the 3rd density and dimension. Forgive me for either misunderstanding, or for being presumptuous, but it seems I believe you may indeed be confusing the word Density with the word Octave? I may be very wrong. But if I may, in the chance that I am indeed acting on a false presumption by assuming the mixing of words, and not intending to be lecturey, I believe Ra does indeed mix the words Density with Dimension, but not Octave with Density. Without meaning to assert what I assume is my understanding, there are 8 Densities in our creation by this Logos, with each single Density being subdivided into eight separate Octaves within each density. A Chimp for example may be seen as perhaps in the highest Octave of 2nd density, for example, whereas a single celled microbe organism thrashing about under a microscope is perhaps in the 1st Octave of 2nd density. I assume given Earth is preparing and ready for Harvest, notwithstanding that many of it's inhabitants are not, that Earth must presently be in be in the 7th Octave of 3D ready for 8th Octave, analogous to the 1st Octave of 4th density.

There are other similarly ambiguous quotes that imply the Guardians are from beyond our Octave, for instance in the rather unique reference to the "8th dimension or octave" of the planet Saturn, in the following quote:
[quote='Ra Book I, Session 6']
Questioner: Where is this Council located?
Ra: I am Ra. This Council is located in the octave, or eighth dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third dimension terms as the rings.

H-m-m-m-....I see the confusion. It is a conundrum of words. I understand Ra to mean that the Guardians are indeed located in the dimension/density of 8, this located in 'one' of it's 8 octaves. Perhaps Ra was making a correction here of "This Council is located in the octave, or eighth dimension", or simply they meant, as stated above, that the Council is indeed located in the 8th dimension of 'one' of it's octaves?

So what does it mean to exist in the Octave or 8th dimension?

Here is where I sense I may be either understanding your confusion, or that I am indeed being presumptuous by continuing to teach/learn. Are you perhaps befuddled by the usage of Octave (certainly inferring the numbering of eight) to mean an Octave is the same as 8th dimension as a result of both inferring the number 8, this by way of the question "what does it mean to exist in the Octave or 8th dimension?

By this I understand Ra to mean that the third group is 'simply one single octave' above their own, meaning either the Octave above the 7th that Ra is presently in is either still in 7th, but clearly at a higher Octave in 7th, or, even if Ra is in the 2nd to last Octave of 7, the Guardians are presumably in the last Octave of 7th/and consequently in the 1st Octave of 8th.

Hmmm, seems that we have a different perspective on the density or octave (little "o") of Ra. I have always been of the impression that Ra was of mid 6th density, just beyond the point where the polarities merge, but still striving toward the 7th.

[quote='Ra Book I, Session 14']
Questioner: Of what density level is Ra?

Ra: I am Ra. I am sixth density with a strong seeking towards seventh density. The harvest for us will be in only approximately two and one-half million of your years and it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it approaches in our space/time continuum.

I stand corrected 3D. Ra is clearly at mid sixth as given. Thank you. But it does raise an interesting question in as much as Ra specifically stated that the Guardians were but one octave above themselves. Assuming a numbering of mid 6th to mean roughly 4th octave for example, of 8 octaves in 6th, then the Guardians would only be at the 5th or 6th octave of mid 6th density, and not in the eighth density as given?

Now, we know with certainty that Ra often demonstrated a perplexing dyslexia when it came to numbering. As such dear 3D, we are either both brilliant detectives in our search and prodding of one another, or we are both dysfunctional mystics confusing ourselves, and each other in the process, or one of us is at least slightly more lost than the other, given that we all are lost and searching anyway. But I am happy to search with you my new freidn...I mean friend. Have we uncovered a misstatement Ra left uncorrected or that Don may have missed? It would be reasonable to conclude that it may be so and that a misstatement may be in need of correction, and as a result missed, or that I need a good Law of One spanking and correction in terminology.

Allow us to stay always lighthearted in these learnings/teachings, in as much as I'm willing to expose myself for the blabbering fool I am if you are, all for the purpose of truly desiring to sharpen my blade of understanding to cut quicker to the truth.

thus implying perhaps that all ceases and begins anew after the completion of 8, only to begin with 1-8 again? (Perhaps this is not at all what you meant 3D,as you seem to imply?).

No, not really. I do not propose to understand what exists beyond our current 3rd density, let alone beyond our Octave. I was merely stating that inherent in the process is that of building and destroying, all for the purpose of allowing the Creator to experience Himself (BTW, I readily agree that the term "Itself" is more politically correct, but that just sounds too sterile for me. So, please forgive me, all that are offended by this masculine reference, but to refer to the Creator experiencing Herself sounds a little to personal for my southern gentlemanly upbringing, and our Victorian heritage).

Now I feel like a having a Jack Daniels and "Ciga" with you good sir on a big 'ol wrap around poch overlooking the mossy green trees hangin sleepily on a gentle river bank, with both of us dressed no less in white suites and in rockin chairs pontificatin in tha aftanoon sun about God and women in the full knowledge that both will foweva remain an enigma and that we'll never undastand eitha.

Indeed it is likely that in the next great breath there are 6 or 12 densities in an octave (septave? dodecave?). Still, to your point Q, within this great breath, it certainly is possible that individuated consciousnesses cycle repeatedly through this Octave (i.e., cycling through densities 1-7), much like they are reincarnated multiple times within each density.

Enough, I think, for now,

3D Sunset

Actually, to be fair and in keeping with the lecture and teach/learning, there would be 6 or 12 octaves, or septaves vs dodecaves per density verses the 6-12 densities per octave. Being the impatient sort that I am, I like the 6 densities better than the 12 as an analogy. Now tell me in this new breath of the 6 densities that the sun revolves around the central sun in only 2,000 years to make for a quicker graduation.

Lets go have that cigar and that Jack Daniels good sir.

Q

[Quantum]

P.S: on further reading my notes above (as seen below with bold added) it seems clear that it might assist the conversation that we also add that the 8 octaves of each of the eight densities, IMHO, as being the finer measurements of the degree of consciousness within a density, this as was given in the 2nd density example of the Microbe to Chimp, both in 2nd density, but each having graduated to a higher octave within that density, verses the obvious and grosser measurement of graduation to a whole Density, which is the equivalent of a Harvest. Perhaps it may be said that one may graduate from one octave to another octave, even in one lifetime, or at least hopefully over the course of a following lifetime(s), and to a Harvest over the course of many many many many lifetimes, and even at the risk of repeating a density, in our case of yet again another 75,000 years.

I hope this conversation is helpful, assuming I am on a correct track to assist? If not...please assist the noble if misguided :-/ attempt at same.

I believe that indeed Ra's usage of density is analogous to our understanding of the word dimension, as each have been used interchangeably by them several times. But I believe density to be utilized more as regards consciousness within a dimension. For example, all creatures on earth, whether in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd density, exist in 3rd dimension. But 1st density exists as mineral (i.e. fire, water, earth, air, etc) albeit in 3rd dimension, as does 2nd density(i.e. plant/animal) albeit in 3rd dimension, as does man with his ability to self actualize as a result of self-consciousness, again albeit fully in 3rd density and in 3rd dimension. But, to the man with the greater consciousness earned by degree of integrity to the path is the greater light awarded in awareness, i.e. consciousness, and thus is he at a greater octave in 3rd density by vibration, playing as if the "Tee" key (7th note), while his brethren still struggles playing the "Doe" key (first note) of the eight notes in the 3rd density with 8 octaves of Doe-Ra-Me-Fa-So-La-Tee-Doe. Vibration in this context is as good of a word as is octave, or note, as in the eight notes of an octave each scaling in higher pitch and tone as it reaches the next octave . All are partially activated in varying levels [b]and degrees of 1-8 octaves, inclusive of man in 3rd density, as well as are the creatures more or less fully activated in 2nd density with 1-8 octaves, as are the "things"/elements activated in 1st density 1-8 octaves.

Remaining thankful to the provoking conversation to both of you Richard and 3D.

Q

[3D Sunset]

Actually, to be fair and in keeping with the lecture and teach/learning, there would be 6 or 12 octaves, or septaves vs dodecaves per density verses the 6-12 densities per octave. Being the impatient sort that I am, I like the 6 densities better than the 12 as an analogy. Now tell me in this new breath of the 6 densities that the sun revolves around the central sun in only 2,000 years to make for a quicker graduation.

This, I think, is the crux of our divergence. For to me, Ra's primary meaning of Octave is the sum of all of our densities. Beyond this Octave, exists another full Octave of densities. This is what I mean by the "Octave". The secondary meaning of octave used by Ra, is the division of Densities into sub-densities and sub-sub-densities. Thus all are octaves, and our seven densities gather together to form an Octave of which we are, appropriately, in the "Me" stage (i.e., 3rd Density). Here are but a handful of quotes which support my assertion:

Questioner: I’m trying to understand how a group such as the Orion group would progress. How it would be possible, if you were in the Orion group, and pointed toward self-service, to progress from our third density to the fourth. What learning would be necessary for that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of length for this instrument at this time.

You will recall that we went into some detail as to how those not oriented towards seeking service for others yet, nevertheless, found and could use the gateway to intelligent infinity. This is true at all densities in our octave. We cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or octave of beingness.

Questioner: Could you define the word density as we have been using it?

Ra: I am Ra. The term density is a, what you call, mathematical one. The closest analogy is that of music, whereby after seven notes on your western type of scale, if you will, the eighth note begins a new octave. Within your great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or densities. Within each density there are seven sub-densities. Within each sub-density, are seven sub-sub-densities. Within each sub-sub-density, seven sub-sub-sub-densities and so on infinitely.

So we share this Octave with Ra, and this Octave is made up of 7 octaves, or densities. Within each density are 7 sub-densities, which he later refers to as sub-octaves, which we see here:

Ra: I am Ra. I have made an error. The fourth-density being is that which we intended to say, the highest level of fourth density going into the fifth. This entity could have gone on to the fifth but chose instead to return to third for this particular mission. This entity was of the highest sub-octave of the vibration of love. This is fourth density.

By this definition, those that are now ready to graduate to 4th density are in the highest sub-octave of the third density, which by the way is the same as the first sub-octave of 4th density. This is also consistent with this quote:

Questioner: Did all of these entities then decide to stay and help during the next 25,000 year cycle?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. As a group they stayed. There were those peripherally associated with this culture which did not stay. However, they were not able to be harvested either and so, beginning at the very highest, shall we say, of the sub-octaves of third density, repeated this density. Many of those who have been of the loving nature are not Wanderers but those of this particular origin of second cycle.

Given this context, look now at the quote:

Questioner: I am assuming that there are eight densities created when this major galaxy was created. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.

Questioner: Are you saying then that there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

Ra cannot speak of the next Octave of Densities above the Octave that we have in common with Ra.

Questioner: Could you tell me how the various bodies, red through violet, are linked to the energy centers, red through violet? Are they linked in some way?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working. As we have noted, each of the true color densities has the seven energy centers and each entity contains all this in potentiation. The activation, while in yellow-ray, of violet-ray intelligent infinity is a passport to the next octave of experience. There are adepts who have penetrated many, many of the energy centers and several of the true colors. This must be done with utmost care while in the physical body for as we noted when speaking of the dangers of linking red/orange/yellow circuitry with true color blue circuitry the potential for disarrangement of the mind/body/spirit complex is great.

However, the entity who penetrates intelligent infinity is basically capable of walking the universe with unfettered tread.

I find this a particularly fascinating, if ambiguous quote. Is Ra here referring to 4th Density, or the next great "Octave" which transcends even the one that we share with him?

Okay so you get my point. I believe that you have been calling the octave is, in reality, a sub-octave of the densities (which, BTW, he does occasionally call octaves as well). But I believe that the true meaning of Octave is the set of all densities, 1-7 which are then repeated after entities merge, through a black hole into eighth density, and graduate to the next higher Octave.

This, as they say, is my story, and I'm sticking to it, fine friend.

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

[quote='Quantum' pid='1882' dateline='1237841122']
Actually, to be fair and in keeping with the lecture and teach/learning, there would be 6 or 12 octaves, or septaves vs dodecaves per density verses the 6-12 densities per octave...

This, I think, is the crux of our divergence. For to me, Ra's primary meaning of Octave is the sum of all of our densities. Beyond this Octave, exists another full Octave of densities. This is what I mean by the "Octave". The secondary meaning of octave used by Ra, is the division of Densities into sub-densities and sub-sub-densities. Thus all are octaves, and our seven densities gather together to form an Octave of which we are, appropriately, in the "Me" stage (i.e., 3rd Density).

Now this is a conversation, Dear 3D, that I must say I am thoroughly enjoying participating with you in, as it is keenly in keeping with the truer definition of teach/learning. Clearly you have indeed identified the crux of our discrepancy in definition as regards "Octave" vs "Density". I am beginning, on further reflection, to believe we may in a sense both be correct, in a manner(?), and as such it becomes all the more confusing as a result. Clear as mud as they say. Thus the discrepancy may lie in the manner in which the definition(s) and usage seems stated. Clearly you are in no uncertain terms stating that "within an Octave lay many Densities", whereas I am suggesting the converse, that "within a Density lay many Octaves." The confusion is that Ra seems to indeed, as you surmise, use the terms interchangeably. This is twice, my friend, that we have uncovered two terms that Ra utilizes interchangeably, the other being Density verses Dimension, as we posted earlier in this same thread (He/They/Ra sure be confusing sometimes).

Kudos to our exchanges. I have not had the mirror in anyone to date to reflect either of these two discrepancies as of yet, as I must suspect neither have you, but that I further suspect we may have stumbled with individually. Perhaps others might offer their input as being similar to see if it is indeed as common of a discrepancy as seems between us? I will once again refer you to my thread "Earth in 3D/7th Octave" / Strictly Law of One, wherein you will see several responders that would seem to share my understanding, if not at least my meaning. Two responses is of course a small indication only.

This conversation requires more typing and longer posts than mere telegraphed texts back and forth, but for me well worth the effort. If you will indulge me dear teacher, I am more than happy to indulge you in kind dear student (as in teach/learn). I unquestionably see your interpretation, and clearly so. But now, here comes the rub. If there are sub densities, and sub sub densities, and sub sub sub densities ad infinitum, as there are sub octaves, and sub sub octaves, and sub sub sub octaves, also ad infinitum, wherein lies the distinction between the two, and wherein does the line begin and end twixt either? Does an octave lie within a density, or a density lie within an octave under this definition of sub sub sub sub etc etc densities vs octaves? There are 8 Octaves. There are 8 Densities. But even in the quotes you offer it seems that the terms are in fact used as if one?

Example: Ra Book I, Session 16 Wrote:Questioner: Could you define the word density as we have been using it?

Ra: I am Ra. The term density is a, what you call, mathematical one. The closest analogy is that of music, whereby after seven notes on your western type of scale, if you will, the eighth note begins a new octave. Within your great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or densities. Within each density there are seven sub-densities. Within each sub-density, are seven sub-sub-densities. Within each sub-sub-density, seven sub-sub-sub-densities and so on infinitely.

Clearly there is a Great Octave, which you have termed, I might add, as appropriately the "O"ctave , as in the "Big O".
(1) I am interpreting Great Octave as perhaps something different than you are I think? I interpret Great Octave in Ra's reference that they share to mean All of life/existence/experience/creation...the whole shooting match that the Creator created.
(2) But then Ra goes on to state that there are seven octaves "OR" densities? It is the tiny word "OR" that seems to be throwing me. And herein enters the conundrum of words. Words are laborious, but sadly our best effort. "OR" implies to me, one or the other, as if both (density or octave) as being the same? "There are seven octaves or densities?". Which is it? The terms are clearly mixed as if they were one and the same here? You go on to share that "So we share this Octave with Ra, and this octave is made up of 7 octaves, or densities". I interpret this to mean that yes, we share existence/creation with Ra, and this Creation is comprised and made up of 7 octaves and 7 densities. Unless Ra truly meant they were the same, as though subsets of one another, thus the word or

"Within your great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or densities". It seems Ra is stating that within "Existence" there are seven octaves and seven densities. You go on to say "By this definition, those that are now ready to graduate to 4th density are in the highest sub-octave of the third density, which by the way is the same as the first sub-octave of 4th density".

Your last statement/quote is my entire thread "Earth in 3D/7th Octave" on 'Strictly Law of One'. Now watch this: If I say Earth is at it's highest Density of it's highest Octave (7th Octave), ready to transition to 4th Density by virtue of moving into 8th Octave (which is the equivalent of 4D in it's first Octave, as 8th is 1st of the next level), verses your statement of "Earth is at it's highest sub-octave in 3D ready to graduate into 4th density, which by the way is the same as the first sub-octave of 4th density", what have we said different?

My mind is beginning to meld, as Spock would say, or is that melt? The Vulcan Mind Melt. We clearly are on the same exact wave length my friend, but on a different "Octensity."

Now, try to bend your mind, if for no other reason than simply as an exercise at this point, as much as I am trying to do so as regards yours, and re-read Ra's quote that you offer in the different context I have offered (see if you see it in the above quote, or even now below?):

Ra, Book II, Session 28 Wrote: Questioner: I am assuming that there are eight densities created when this major galaxy was created. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.

Here I get/interpret that Densities are the Major creation of the Galaxy, and that Octaves are the minor creation(?), if you will, much like the musical notes of a scale of majors and minors, whereas I see you see that you see that Octaves are majors and densities are minors. So, which come first, the chickinsity or the eggtave?

It is not only as fascinating that we are able to even share this dear friend, in as much as there are so few with who to share such understandings with, but that even in the sharing where we both see the same cloud, and even the same elephant in it's shape, I see white elephants where you see pink elephants, and this from the same Rorschach Ink blot we thought was a cloud. Fascinating.

Might this suggest that octaves and densities have the distinct ability to be both, as in bi-octivanal vs bi-densital?

In closing 3D, I am as curious to see if you could bend your mind as much as I attempted in kind, and now also see it as reading both ways, depending on which way? It gets curiouser and curiouser all the time. Thank you for allowing the play in words, thought, and fun.

Q

[Quantum]

One more passing thought as regards the above conversations: Ra clearly took the effort to Name and Number densities, going so far as to explain what levels of intelligence occupied each, and particularly of our own (1-3: mineral, plant/animal, man), as well as so far as to explain 4th through 7th, and that they were in mid 6th. We know with all certainty, according to the Law of One, that we are in 3rd density approaching 4th. Never was there a reference as to which Octave we are in, much less any other intelligence (taking into account that we assume the Ra quote that they are in the Same Great Octave as we are, to mean Existence and Creation Itself, verses that they are literally in our octave). The naming of densities, and not the naming of octaves, causes me to consider that Densities are the major, and that Octaves are the minor, and that the numbering of the former is where my attention is drawn as evidence of same? But again, the fact that Ra mixes definitions helps little in untangling this conundrum, as both are cited in varying usage.

Thank you again 3D,

Q

[Quantum]

RA: WERE THERE NO POTENTIALS FOR MISUNDERSTANDING..., THERE WOULD BE NO EXPERIENCE. (B3, 24)

[3D Sunset]

The naming of densities, and not the naming of octaves, causes me to consider that Densities are the major, and that Octaves are the minor, and that the numbering of the former is where my attention is drawn as evidence of same? But again, the fact that Ra mixes definitions helps little in untangling this conundrum, as both are cited in varying usage.

Sorry my friend, but try as I might, I just can't bend my mind enough to even visualize that. I believe that Ra doesn't name the Great Octaves for two reasons.

First and foremost, this Octave is the only one of which he has any direct experience. The prior and subsequent Octaves are, as he says several times, simply a mystery. So what would be the purpose in the naming? (Another point to bear in mind is that Ra probably only names the Densities which comprise this Octave out of deference to our 3D predilection to name things.) Ra has total recall of all of his experiences within this Octave, and a good understanding of what awaits him in his next Density, but he has little more than hints, rumors, and innuendo about previous and subsequent Octaves, so he has no real concept as to how to "name" them for those of us in 3D that like names so much.

Secondly, I think that Ra doesn't dwell on other Octaves of experience because they have no direct effect on our Octave, expect as far as what was harvested from the prior Octave(s), and possibly what little interaction we may have with the Guardians who, as I stated earlier, appear to exist in the 8th Density of this Octave which is the First Density of the next Octave (personally, I find this a much more interesting topic, but what of that). Ra does discuss what little he knows about prior octaves in Book IV. Note that here he describes the beginning of this Octave as "the beginning of this creation":

Questioner: I realize that we are on very difficult ground, you might say, for precise terminology. It is totally displaced from our system of coordinates for evaluation in our present system of language. These early Logoi that formed in the center of the galaxy wished, I assume, to create a system of experience for the one Creator. Did they then start with no previous experience or information about how to do this? This is difficult to ask.

Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation, we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

These tools were of three kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

Interestingly, we do learn that apparently it was in this Octave (or creation... I'm starting to like that name better) that the concepts of STO and STS were first born, but the concept of 7 densities within an Octave does appear to be eternal (so much, it seems, for the septave and dodecave, my friend).

Questioner: Then we have, at the beginning of this galactic evolution, an archetypical mind that is the product of the previous octave which this galaxy then used as and acts upon under the first distortion so as to allow for what we experience as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service-to-self and service-to-others.

Questioner: Then the first experiences, as you say, were in monochrome. Was the concept of the seven densities of vibration with the evolutionary process taking place in discrete densities carried through from the previous octave?

Ra: I am Ra. To the limits of our knowledge, which are narrow, the ways of the octave are without time; that is, there are seven densities in each creation infinitely.

So again, I'm sorry to have failed you, my friend, but I cannot fathom any way, in my admittedly infinitesimally limited imagination, that Densities are in even some small aspect "major" hierarchically to Great Octaves or Creations. Not that this is of an particular import though, because within this Creation, the Densities are clearly the great measure of spiritual evolution and advancement to which me must attune ourselves. I remain however, eager to readily concede that Densities are composed of 8 sub-densities, which Ra does call octaves, which are further sub-divided into octaves and so on ad-infinitum. I also agree that Earth itself is (as well as most if not all of its harvestable inhabitants) clearly in the last octave of 3D, which is the first octave of 4D.

Your mentally exhausted and severely imaginatively challenged friend,

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

...I'm sorry to have failed you, my friend, but I cannot fathom any way, in my admittedly infinitesimally limited imagination, that Densities are in even some small aspect "major" hierarchically to Great Octaves or Creations. Not that this is of an particular import though, because within this Creation, the Densities are clearly the great measure of spiritual evolution and advancement to which me must attune ourselves. I remain however, eager to readily concede that Densities are composed of 8 sub-densities, which Ra does call octaves, which are further sub-divided into octaves and so on ad-infinitum. I also agree that Earth itself is (as well as most if not all of its harvestable inhabitants) clearly in the last octave of 3D, which is the first octave of 4D.
Your mentally exhausted and severely imaginatively challenged friend,

3D Sunset

Kudos my friend, and zero apologies. To the contrary, you've argued your point quite academically and quite poignantly. So much so in fact that I needed play time, this by retreating to a beach in Sarasota [Florida] so that I might reassemble all frazzled brain cells. Admittedly these requirements for play time require ever more-minuscule proddings of any degree for almost any reason.

I concede to that which is and has been self evident. 8 Densities lie within an Octave. Said bending of mind, as requested in my previous post, wherein much humor, wording, naming, and confusion lie, seems as though word play/confusion is created by the Creator Itself, i.e., the creation of language.

Here is where the thread may evolve into 'Naming and Numbering' as regards what we may term loosely Preconceived Confusion by Design for a moment. Allow me the point by way of example, as it may evoke a smile as much as an a-ha: Extrapolating the octave definition down, it is a given that there exist 8 densities within an octave, with each density comprised of sub-densities. But ironically a sub-density is the self-same thing/energy/definition and synonymous to/with the word "Octave" as stated and given by Ra. Now thats a huh...aye?

Extrapolating it down is easy. Allow us now then as a result, with this understanding, to extrapolate this knowledge 'UP' to the same extent. It requires little bending, verses abstraction, and you may see the humor as much as I hope the intended message. Watch this:
1.within each density lie octaves = aka sub densities.
2.how many octaves does it take to make a density?
3.and thus how many sub densities are equivalent to an octave which may make a Great Density vs a Great Octave which are one and the same? Sounds like a joke I know (three Wanderers in 5D from 7D, previously Pollacks in 3D [having graduated beyond political correctness] wander into a bar asking how many densities lie in an octave).

If 8 densities = one octave, as a definition per octave, and that within each density there are 8 octaves, then it stands to reason that this truth must hold so in extrapolating the terminology up as well, i.e., that within densities lie octaves (aka sub-densities), such that 8 octaves (aka sub-densities) make up one density. Thus by extrapolating up, we may ultimately name the great octave the Great Density instead, and equate terminologies interchangeably. In other words, if a sub-octave is the same as a sub-density, then it stands to reason that a Great Octave may be the same as a Great Density.

This is where words begin to fail, and deeper understanding begins beyond words. Admittedly the thread and conversation has now as a result evolved to a finer point. If we become too rigid in words, we become so rigid we descend into spiritual fundamentalism by way of literalism. If we allow ourselves too much latitude we become libertines, thus descending into spiritual anarchy. What I am in a sense attempting to share as regards wording and terminology, is that, loosing the point and conversation as to octave vs density altogether, the greater lesson in a sense now transcends these, and becomes not in how many angels actually do indeed dance on the head of a pin, or more to the point, to this learning, "what their names are", as much as it could be argued that their names may seemingly change by viewing these angels from different angles (ha). This mirror serves up the example that in semantics, in which confusion lies rather quaint, and which if missed may appear as pedantics to the mind married to words as much as to the mind that is lethargic. The circle is forever present in 3D, and thus the mirror for confusion, and that in words confusion is seen clearly (a-ha).

IT SHALL BE UNDERSTOOD THAT ANY PORTION, NO MATTER HOW SMALL, OF ANY DENSITY OR OF ANY ILLUSORY PATTERN (my insertion - also octaves) CONTAINS, AS IN A HOLOGRAPHIC PICTURE, THE ONE CREATOR WHICH IS INFINITY. THUS ALL BEGINS AND ENDS IN MYSTERY.(B1,131)

Clearly everything is everything, and all is one, and the point is made. We need the naming of things simply to understand them as relates to our rational mind requiring languaging skills to tuck these knowledge bits into nice neat orderly boxes. The ability to however venture Into The Misty ,as it were, seems to require as a pre-requisite an "outside the box" ability to build these skills up, with an all at once understanding that one must in simultaneity release these lexicons and concordances in the process.

I believe I am stating the obvious by postulating that the confusions in/of words are by design, not by chance. By way of example, when I play with words or meanings, wherein two meanings may reside, as in the double entendre, I am considered clever and witty. When, however, doing the same, but unwittingly, by speaking from two sides of the same one coin, and engaging the double or triple entendre, but in which all parties are unaware, we create neither humor nor wit, as much as confusion at best, or potential dire consequences at worst (confusion as a given, whereas dire consequence taken to the extreme by choice).

Just for fun, but more for the learning, lets step up the confusion and go back to the interchangeable words of dimensions vs density, and it gets really wacky. See the Study Guide, section 2 part ll http://www.spiritofra.com/Ra-section%202.htm

II. THE CREATION HAS AN INFINITE NUMBER OF DIMENSIONS WITHIN THE OCTAVE FORMAT

RA: The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle (intelligent energy) following the Law of One in one of its basic distortions, namely, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible.

The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomized creative force which then creates patterns. These patterns of energy begin to regularize their own rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes. At this point the physical universes were not yet born.

For the next question: If the word "Dimension" is used interchangeably for density by Ra, how do we explain consciousness? Clearly consciousness seems the demarcation for the word density, i.e. 1st density (mineral) has less consciousness than 2nd (plant/animal), and 2nd less than 3rd (man), and 3D man less than 5D wandering Pollacks, and so forth. But we in 1-3 density reside in the 3rd dimension uniformly, i.e. the 1D rock upon which I sit, which rests upon the 2D grass, both under the 2D tree (presumably higher in 2D than the grass) next to my 2D dog or monkey (also 2D but presumably higher in 2D than the tree) , all occupy the same 3D dimension? Now, where is the similarity in definition between dimension and density, yet they seem to be utilized interchangeably as much as is octave and density at other times?

And it becomes obvious that the beginning mystic, unawares, begins awakening by asking the first questions: Where am I again? What am I doing here? and always important, Where am I going?

I believe this lesson in lexiconology to be an important thread towards the learning process of the LOO. I thank any and all towards the effort in the group-think-understanding process to see and lend a helping hand.

1. What thinketh any of Ye that we may sayeth unto the words Dimension vs Density as regards definition?

And in this context to the 2nd question posed below by you 3D for all to ponder, in a differing manner as myself through the topic to the same principle of Earth in last 3D/7th octave moving to Earth/3D/8th octave as the same as 4D/1st octave? In other words, generally, octaves and densities in 1st and last stage in overlap.

2.the Guardians who, as I stated earlier, appear to exist in the 8th Density of this Octave which is the First Density of the next Octave

3. And more specific to your question above, for any and all responses: e.g. : Do the Guardians have teachers from their next density above their own, ad infinitum(?) in principle as a model..

4. or might the 1st octave/first sub-density of the next octave, as a model, be the last of any higher assistance to the one octave below, e.g. in our case of our octave vs the next that they (Guardians) occupy, in as much as this is the Last Octave in Our Octave (7D at 8th octave) that they now occupy, as being the 1st sub-density/sub-octave of Our/Ra's Next octave? Perhaps, after this, or any, first sub-octave/sub-density, does the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great Octave (or any other) move fully into the next Great Octave/sub-density, being 2nd altogether, from which there may be no subset/communication backward? In other words, Soyanara baby from that point forward of the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great octave, as the first octave/sub-density of the next octave still occupies the last position of the previous octave.

I conjecture this only in as much as Ra speaks to no other higher communication or source beyond the Guardians/Confederation, other than about the Creator on the whole as Infinity Unfathomable.

Q

[3D Sunset]

1. What thinketh any of Ye that we may sayeth unto the words Dimension vs Density as regards definition?

And in this context to the 2nd question posed below by you 3D for all to ponder, in a differing manner as myself through the topic to the same principle of Earth in last 3D/7th octave moving to Earth/3D/8th octave as the same as 4D/1st octave? In other words, generally, octaves and densities in 1st and last stage in overlap.

I would propose, indeed have already proposed, that Earth is, at this very nexus of space/time and time/space, in both the eighth octave of 3rd Density and 1st octave of 4th Density. I furthermore suggest that all harvestable souls hereon are likewise in 8th octave of 3rd Density (hence 1st octave 4th Density). As such, I believe that we can, in some gross, clunky, 3D distorted way, begin our 4th Density work, albeit in 3rd Density forms. As such, it would seem that our task at hand is that of aiding the infusion of love and light into this world, thereby easing the path for whatever remaining souls as may be awake to make the transition with us.

3. And more specific to your question above, for any and all responses: e.g. : Do the Guardians have teachers from their next density above their own, ad infinitum(?) in principle as a model.

One would presume by extension of what we see in this Octave, that this is so. The proof thereof shall, by necessity and design, remain a mystery.

4. ...In other words, Soyanara baby from that point forward of the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great octave, as the first octave/sub-density of the next octave still occupies the last position of the previous octave.

It seems that the nature of growth is 1) existence in the current density/octave and 2) the pull to the next. As such, I see the focus of this pull on current Octave from the next, would of design, be at the first density thereof and last density hereof.

I am struck throughout this discussion with the applicability of the Biblical quote "The last shall be first and the first shall be last." Matthew Chapter 20, could certainly be read as to describe the selection of harvested souls, and how it matters not how late one comes as long as they are here before the appointed hour.

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

. ...In other words, Soyanara baby from that point forward of the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great octave, as the first octave/sub-density of the next octave still occupies the last position of the previous octave.

It seems that the nature of growth is 1) existence in the current density/octave and 2) the pull to the next. As such, I see the focus of this pull on current Octave from the next, would of design, be at the first density thereof and last density hereof.

True indeed from the readings. But my question lies more to: might we assume communication and/or assistance halts altogether at some point, as in the following example? Might the 1st sub-octave/1st sub-density of the next octave, as a model, be the last of any higher assistance to the one octave below. In other words, in our case of our octave vs the next octave that the Guardians now occupy, which is the Last Octave in Our Octave (7D at 8th octave) and in simultaneity the 1st sub-density/sub-octave of Our/Ra's Next octave? Perhaps, after this 1st sub-density/sub-octave, or any first sub-octave/sub-density, does the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great Octave (or any other) move so fully into the next Great Octave/sub-density and which then as 2nd altogether become the full next octave, from which there may be no subset/communication backward? In other words, Soyanara baby from that point forward of the 2nd octave/sub-density of the next great octave, as the 1st octave/sub-density of the next octave still occupies the last position of the previous octave. Perhaps this is not only the last communication, but the last assistance?

Curious,

Q

[Quantum]

I had what might be considered an interesting thought this evening, this after reading several of the last posts as regards Octaves, Densities, Sub-octaves, and Sub-densities, all as pertinent to the Harvest. I found myself further wondering if the following thought exercise might lend itself to an understanding of the LOO as relates to consciousness, this through an exercise, if you will, wherein I suggested that scaling up vs scaling down in thought extrapolation may hold as much congruency in conjecturing as one to another?

For example: I've noted while in observation of nature that lower animals of 2D have a rather peculiar penchant and tendency towards remaining extremely and highly segregated as relates to 'sameness' within their species. Extrapolating down from man, dogs presumably being higher in 2D than fish, have no particular discretion on any level as to a Poodle, for example, requiring exclusively the company of another Poodle. A Poodle seems as happy as a mutt to be with a Dachshund as with a German Shepard, as do all other dogs, one with the other, none exhibiting any seeming need to keep the race pure, as it were, and thereby lacking in any analogous segregation disposition, much less an analogous bigotry or racism fixation in consciousness as seen in man.

Lest you feel I am jesting or oversimplifying, stay with me in thought for a moment more, for this seems not at all the case with animals of 2nd Density in, let us say, lower in sub-sub-sub density consciousness of a bird or fish example vs the dog at a higher 2D level. Let us assume that the bird or fish, which is also in 2nd Density, is in 2D but at a lower sub-sub density, meaning in lower development or consciousness, than is the said dog. Goldfish will only associate and/or reproduce with Goldfish, and not with bass, or minnows, whereas likewise birds, lets us say Pigeons, will only associate and/or reproduce with Pigeons and not with Blue-jays, this as opposed to the previous said German Shepard being as happy as a lark to co-mingle with a Terrier. Co-mingling as reproduction aside, it is more difficult to play with a spider or snake, much less a mouse or rat, than it is with a dog or monkey. The latter choose to be our friend when given the choice of freedom, whereas a fly is happy to flee each and every single time. Microbes, being even further down in the sub-sub-sub etc density level, are presumably totally unaware of our presence altogether. Insects hardly notice us, but presumably more than the microbe. Mice notice us more, rather profoundly so as well, and flee with a great deal more consciousness in doing so than the fly. Moving up the chain, animals may become increasingly aware of us, from us appearing as a tasty morsel to a full blown dinner, verses ultimately a friend, as in said dog. This segregated behavior seems truer the further down the scale one moves as a rule, to as much as it seems to unravel the more one moves up the scale, ultimately to where the segregation principle begins to evaporate entirely...namely in man, in as much as namely in man where it stands as strong and ugly at once.

My point being that perhaps the higher up the sub-density/sub-octave scale we move, the more unified we become in consciousness, whereas the lower in same the more disunified and segregated we need be/simply are, this by nature perhaps singularly as a rule for the procreation of the species and survival on the whole? Here is where man enters as 3D. The example less clearly stands to reason, but is as easily viewed as regards a 3D Bigoted Man example, whether he be in the Boonies or Backwoods vs the Metro-sexual Wall Street Broker in the city with all the trappings of success and intelligence, but sharing the same lower consciousness as his hillbilly brother, holding one to the other, of the same energy and feeling of consciousness, both feeling innately that whites need remain with whites as much as minnows need remain with minnows. He is where he is and knows not what he does. By virtue of his apartheid consciousness and limitation he seems quite sane to his other lessor brothers as a rule as well. But he may not be as insane as he appears, as much as he is limited by the animal he is, thus needing remain true to his herd mentality. He is in 3D, but in a lower sub density/sub-octave of 3D, behaving more in some manner like an animal by nature and by consciousness as much as in behavior.

Now, as such, a man on the other hand, having a further developed capacity of higher consciousness is as happy to be with a woman of any color as much as a woman with a man of any nationality, or religion, in as much as any club mentality inclusive of nationalism, color, religion, etc etc.. Thus is the man who is in 3D, and in growing consciousness, able to accommodate more and more light, and thus able by degree of being in higher consciousness able to accommodate more and more resistance as well, this as regards differences of color of experience, such that resistance becomes absorbed as if non existent as more and more seemingly becomes unified. By this principle then, he is although in 3D, in a higher sub-sub-sub-density or sub-sub-sub octave (pick your word) of 3D, and thus vibrating at a higher frequency, and as a result able to move more fluidly and unified in 3D as a result, and by vibration and frequency ultimately able as a consequence to graduate to 4D, and so forth and so on. Now, as a result, he may move so much more fluidly at a higher sub category in 3D, so much so that he is indeed able to commune with the angels, as it were, this as a result of his consciousness, overlapping into 4D, 5D, or higher to 6D, yet while still in 3D. The Angels, or the Master, is then able in consequence to approach or appear to the student when indeed the student is ready.

As such, a man of limited sub category 3D consciousness may simply be limited by his animal nature, and thus simply not be able to move as freely in thought or consciousness. At his level of lower sub density/sub-octave consciousness he is never able of finding love for brother of differing skin tone, religion, politic, or any thought, lest he open his heart. He simply can not accommodate this in consciousness/heart, and thus the very thought is so foreign that it repels or repulses, even to the point of making his other brother of the same religion, color, or club who is more open and able to accommodate same as much of the outsider as is the truer outsider.

In other words, to the man opening, he doesn't fly in the same flock-ness, or swim in the same school-ness, or travel in the same herd mentality as before, if ever. He is the man awakening to higher realms of sub-octaves/sub-densities within his 3D environment, this to the point of being either rejected by the heard itself, or self-ostracized at his own hand as a consequence, left to bemoan his loneliness as a result of having segregated himself by vibration, and left to wonder why he is left so alone.

Prometheus stole fire/light from Zeus and gave it to man, was chained to the rocks eternally for having done so by Zeus. He was left to be eaten by a vulture by day, only to recuperate at night forever. Man awakening is Prometheus. He steals fire (consciousness/light) from the Overlord God Zeus, also us. We are as a result eternally chained by our selves to the rocks for having done so, to be eaten by a vulture each day, only to recuperate by night in our dreams where we reunite with our subconscious again. We are crucified daily by ourselves for having brought light/fire/awareness to our consciousness, ostracizing ourselves from ourselves and our fellow man of the herd mentality for having done so, bemoaning our fate for having left the herd.

We are man awakening, in the world, but no longer of the world....


Q

[Richard]

Quantum wrote:

We are crucified daily by ourselves for having brought light/fire/awareness to our consciousness, ostracizing ourselves from ourselves and our fellow man of the herd mentality for having done so, bemoaning our fate for having left the herd.

We are man awakening, in the world, but no longer of the world....

Quantum,

That is a beautifully written metaphor. But, to me, its the very antithesis of the humanity the Qu'o suggest we explore. I would suggest that "We are man awakening, in the world, but even more aware of the world and our fellow beings than ever before.."

I don't remember the exact passage...but somewhere the Qu'o warned us about trying to separate ourselves from our fellow man just by virtue of our seeking. Something about hubris...

Richard

[Quantum]

Quantum wrote:

We are crucified daily by ourselves for having brought light/fire/awareness to our consciousness, ostracizing ourselves from ourselves and our fellow man of the herd mentality for having done so, bemoaning our fate for having left the herd.

We are man awakening, in the world, but no longer of the world....

Quantum,

That is a beautifully written metaphor. But, to me, its the very antithesis of the humanity the Qu'o suggest we explore. I would suggest that "We are man awakening, in the world, but even more aware of the world and our fellow beings than ever before.."

I don't remember the exact passage...but somewhere the Qu'o warned us about trying to separate ourselves from our fellow man just by virtue of our seeking. Something about hubris...

Richard

Metaphorically speaking, thank you Richard, for the compliment on the metaphor (lol). I agree whole heartily with your closing comment towards striving for unity.The metaphor of Prometheus stems of course from Greek Mythology. The analysis of the Promethean myth is Carl Jung's as archetypal analysis of dream and mythology as in fact in this case extending itself to mythology. Greek mythology is metaphor. As such the metaphor of the awakening man extends itself into what the Christian Seeker, as well as all similar literature of spirituality since, inclusive of the LOO, has termed the "Dark Night Of The Soul."

It would seem that this 'dark night' is a designed must, this towards the development of the spirit awakening. But awakening to what(?) begs the answer. The awakening to what in fact is your very point...UNITY. It would seem as such that the Logos designed that we as man in 3D must be willing, even bold enough, to traverse through this 'Dark Night Of The Soul' before entering into what ultimately results in unity. Man awakening thus seems to have no choice then but to feel intensely this very separation. This separation I surmise however is on an altogether different plane than the separation you or Quo speak to, and as such is not in antithesis, but more on point. Is man in this state separating from his fellow man alone, or as much or more to his less awakened self in the realization of his higher self unfolding?

Separation is simply "a what is" it seems, as evidenced by the many personal testimonies within spiritual literature, as well as the many posts within this very forum. One thread is entitled "Loneliness of Mind, Body, and Spirit" on Strictly Law of One. Another is "How Do You Deal With Loneliness" on Life On Planet Earth, and another is "Married to a Non-Believer" on the same thread, as well as the entire annals of the Wanderer stories who almost all unanimously feel so intensely alone and/or different that it becomes impossible to deny the separation anxiety felt so deeply, and to such an extreme that it becomes too overwhelming as evidence. The Dark Night Of The Soul is hallmark for the man separating himself from himself as though a rip in the very fabric of his being, if not his relationships, if not his mind, if not from his very life at times as he knew it.

Perhaps the physiological analogy may be made that much like lactic acid releasing itself into the muscle after a workout so that it may grow causes pain, so too does the release of something far finer in the spirit cause a likened pain in the spirit, or the soul, if you will, so that it too may grow. Growth seems to hurt on all levels, be it physical, emotional, or mental. It would seem to hold true for the Spiritual as well so that indeed, like it's counterparts, it may grow into UNITY.

May this humble if not feeble explanation touch you. May it cause you the sweet pain and sweeter misery that unfolds to the something far more beautiful behind it.

Q

[irpsit]

These are all great posts.

Remember, we have brought a *personality* that is definitively 3D, but not all whole existence; what do you think of our souls, or higher selfs?

Maybe we just have existence at not only one dimension but at several ones, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6D
For instance, I would have my physical body (1, 2, 3 D) upon waking in my bed, but my astral body at a 4D level and a soul fraction at a 5D and a higher self at a 6D level. And even a part of the oversoul, 7D.
I am just guessing.


For some I was pondering over the octaves and I came with this too

OCTAVES
There would be seven octaves in 2D, and seven in 3D, and seven in 4D
each would blend into the next. This is just a trying guess!!!
Hey I'm also a biologist

(I had a tendency to focus more on a possible STO path in this description)

1D
1 energy, atomic particles
2 atomic organization
3 molecular organization
4 elements fire water, earth air, forming stars and planets
5 forming planets become stable with geological phenomena
6 organic molecules, now with organic phenomena and water
7 nucleic acids and virus

2D animals and plants
1 bacteria
2 simple life, such algae or protozoans
3 simple plants and simple animals (insects)
4 flowers and herbs, fishes and others
5 the trees outside in my garden, most mammals, birds, etc
6 advanced mammals, such as dogs or cats
7 advanced primates (near 3D first octave), a few pets close to us

3D humans
1 brute animalistic humans, small self-awareness and of others
2 tribalistic human, awareness of a tribal group and of self (of course I would say native tribes nowadays are also very close to 4D)
3 early civilization, greater awareness of group and of self, STS power kicks in, but also the early STO acts
4 thinking man... dwelling between STS and STO choices, the normal man you find in the streets (no prejudice intended)
5 ethic advanced thinking man, entering spirituality, chakras become aware, learning the choices of love, self or others. It should a way where man progressively moves from emotions into third chakra and then into heart chakra, also from mind more to heart, and individual life to group or relationship activity or service
6 humans, having with peak moments, working in groups, spreading love energy (love chakra is active), and challening angels and etc. As part of STS fraction, brutal power is exercised and challened; also maybe dual activated children, wanderers, coincidences, love flow
7 all chakras activating and transcendence

4D
1 astral world illusions, spirits, spirits after death, wandering, with time-space potential and manifestation abilities and energy abilities, early begginings of group activity
2 devas and gnomes, elementals and fairies, therefore, memory complexes establishing, powerful love emotions
3 spirits, memory complexes, connections, past-life acesses, etc, refining love, like many
4 angelic spirits of astral world, entities developing powerful love feelings, maybe some lower channeled entities
5 spirit guides
6 powerful 4d astral societies, some 4D challened entities
7 ascended masters, transcending time-space

5D ... example of Christ energy, our souls roots, some channeled entities
6D ... higher selfs, Ra and others
7D ... Higher hierarchy angels...

Love for all
Don't take my analysis too seriously

[Lavazza]

2D animals and plants
1 bacteria
2 simple life, such algae or protozoans
3 simple plants and simple animals (insects)
4 flowers and herbs, fishes and others
5 the trees outside in my garden, most mammals, birds, etc
6 advanced mammals, such as dogs or cats
7 advanced primates (near 3D first octave), a few pets close to us

Cool, I like the way you are thinking on these sub-octaves. The only thing I might change about the order you've put the species in is that instead of ordering them from most primitive to most advanced with their intelligence, I would put them in the order of how far or close they are to achieving their densities goal. For 2nd density for example, the goal is to become self aware and to move away from the pack mentality. I've read else where (I can find the source if interested) that the house cat is the most evolved animal in second density because it is extremely individual. And the most evolved of the plant kingdom is the tree. A tree can live in a forest or by itself on a plain.

3rd density I think you've put in a correct order, because the goal of our density is to know love.

1st density I don't know about, because there is no graduation from 1st density (I believe this is correct?) So maybe there are no sub-octaves in 1st density?

Anyhow, fun stuff!