Why I am not a vegan

[Jade]

When we first switched, one of my favorite snacks was stove-top popcorn with nutritional yeast. Seriously, so good, it's almost like cheesy popcorn, but a little nutty... some movie theaters even have it available as an added topping if they have a sprinkled-things bar set up. Nutritional yeast is good in everything though. And look at those other nutritional stats (other than just b12!) - 8 grams of protein per teaspoon, that's bonkers! Not that anyone should still be buying the protein myth... and if you are, let me show you my good friend:



(how awesome is it that he's so iron-red from the dirt???)

[Ashim]

ScottK Wrote:
Oy - Bill Clinton is about as STS as they come..

..and you know this for sure right?
Played a round or two with him at the club have you?

All this talk of "this or that is STS" etc. is getting tiresome.

STO or STS is the polarity of the entire spectrum of a being.
It's nothing more than cherry picking to brand a single act as being either STO of STS.
Monica, you do this repeatedly.
Regarding expecting apologies from posters that are 'rude' to you, well I find much of what you share to be not only disrespectful and rude but even dangerous and bordering on attempted emotional blackmail.

To top it off I ask you a serious question and you answer back by laughing your sorry arse off.

[Diana]

While we might "use" others to kill animals for us, we also use others to do all sorts of things we don't want to do. But as you said, we don't have to look at it that way..it's interdependence and functioning as a unit.

And Monica, since you agree that one realistic goal is for meat eaters to drastically cut meat consumption, those who have the courage to slaughter (humanely raised/slaughtered) can then be seen as filling a necessary role, and there is no need to demonize them..because eating meat just isn't going to disappear anytime soon. People don't consider the value of new viewpoints if they're made to feel bad about themselves (meat eaters in general). We should then be thankful for those who do the things we're not able to do..positive interpretation, positive energy sent.

Firstly, there seems to be an offense taken here all the time, when facts or opinions are presented by those promoting vegetarianism or veganism. It is a choice to be offended. I discuss the subject on B4 assuming the members here are evolved enough to not indulge in petty human behavior, since we are presumably here to discuss things of a more advanced nature than the mainstream. I wouldn't talk about these things outside of B4 as I know I would do just what you said above: make people feel badly about themselves. But here, jeez, I would assume I could talk freely without having to walk on eggshells because someone might feel badly about themselves (which is a choice). It's not that I want to make anyone feel badly, and I strive to be fair and kind, but with this subject there is so much unkindness happening to animals, the focus on human reaction because they don't want to give up taste or habit pales for me in comparison.

There is truth to what you say about those who raise and slaughter animals humanely being a step in the right direction, a huge step actually.

It may be stretched to see raising animals for food an interdependence, but what do they get out of it? In the case of plant life, plants need animals to disseminate their seeds as they are root-bound to the earth—so there is an exchange. With animals perhaps love and care would be what they get from humans, but freedom is taken away (and they end up slaughtered in most cases, because they are used by humans for food).

And I don't think the idea of humans having other people do what we don't want to do a good thing or positive at all. It derives from separatism and unconsciousness. If you aren't willing to take the life of an animal for food, I say you are in denial, not working in symbiosis. You are shilediing yourself from something horrible (killing a live being that doesn't want to die) but taking the results of it. (*nicer in comparison* analogy: If you don't want to be a garbage collector because it is unpleasant, there is denial all over the place: how much garbage are you making unconsciously, why aren't you willing to be a good steward of your own environment and take care of whatever you create, etc.)

[Monica]

All this talk of "this or that is STS" etc. is getting tiresome.

Apparently a lot of people here don't even acknowledge there is such a thing as STS/STO, despite it being discussed extensively by Ra.

STO or STS is the polarity of the entire spectrum of a being.

Agreed. That's why I put a ? regarding Scott's labeling of Clinton. Not even Hitler could be conclusively determined to be STS harvestable. We cannot know for sure, the polarity of another entity.

It's nothing more than cherry picking to brand a single act as being either STO of STS.
Monica, you do this repeatedly.

There is a huge difference between labeling a person STS vs labeling an action STS. Even then, actions alone cannot be judged STS or STO, because intentions matter and can alter the polarizing potential of the action. This is why I have used qualifiers like 'inherently' and 'knowingly.'

Regarding expecting apologies from posters that are 'rude' to you,

I had no such expectations. I merely found it ironic.

well I find much of what you share to be not only disrespectful and rude

Then you have a different definition of 'disrespectful and rude.' I consider something 'disrespectful and rude' if it's directed at someone personally. It's not disrespectful or rude to express one's own opinions about ideas and concepts.

but even dangerous and bordering on attempted emotional blackmail.

But Ashim! Eating apples is clearly an STS act!!!

To top it off I ask you a serious question

Serious? You ask someone who has written enough to make a book on a particular topic whether they've 'thought about it'? That was serious?

and you answer back by laughing your sorry arse off.

I have never, ever, EVER labeled any person STS. Nor have I ever called anyone any names, as others have done, nor any direct insults, as you just did with your 'sorry arse' insult you just threw at me.

---

---

I'm feeling some deja vu, and it's not from past lives. It's from seeing this repeat of drama. Folks, this is NOT about ME or any other vegetarian. It's not about you either. It's about the victims!

Does anyone eat apples? That is an STS action.

[Jade]

I consider something 'disrespectful and rude' if it's directed at someone personally. It's not disrespectful or rude to express one's own opinions about ideas and concepts.

So you find it disrespectful and rude to say something to one specific person, but you find the same thing not disrespectful or rude to say to the "all", under the guise of your "opinion"? What is the difference?

When you refer to omnivores vs vegans you are talking about groups of people, not merely concepts and ideas. Therefore those who may hear your words who fall under that group of people may find what you're saying personally offensive.

[Monica]

I consider something 'disrespectful and rude' if it's directed at someone personally. It's not disrespectful or rude to express one's own opinions about ideas and concepts.

So you find it disrespectful and rude to say something to one specific person, but you find the same thing not disrespectful or rude to say to the "all", under the guise of your "opinion"? What is the difference?

When you refer to omnivores vs vegans you are talking about groups of people, not merely concepts and ideas. Therefore those who may hear your words who fall under that group of people may find what you're saying personally offensive.

No, it's not about how many people the comment is directed at, but about whether it's directed at people, or at actions.

To explain:

Knowingly, unnecessarily eating animals is an STS act.

Eating apples is also an STS act. Anyone who knowingly eats apples is engaging in STS actions. I'm not saying they are STS; I'm saying their behavior is STS.

I didn't call the person STS, see? I called the action STS.

So, I will say it again:

Anyone who knowingly eats apples is engaging in STS behavior.

[Nicholas]

Not that anyone should still be buying the protein myth... and if you are,

the great Silverback is reported to be the greatest pound for pound land mammal, has a 97% vegetation to 3% meat diet. The latter consisting of mainly termites and ants.

Thanks for the link Jade and how ironic that I should find some great links on a thread antithetical to its content! (at first glance that is)

[Ashim]

Ashim Wrote:
To top it off I ask you a serious question

Serious? You ask someone who has written enough to make a book on a particular topic whether they've 'thought about it'? That was serious?

The ability to type copius amounts of text does not qualify one to author a book.

Ask any publisher about that.

[daniel90]

I agree, you cannot have a fully natural vegan diet without the use of some type of supplement.

Have you ever heard of Breatharians !

Body types, configurations ,occupation, sleep, water, environment, energy body, so many things affect nutrition.

I was able to live a month just on fruits and I felt great had no problems physically, my only problem was that I was to sensible and denser energies kind of bother me. Intuitive/Energetically speaking.

But I know vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians , breatharians who are really healthy and have more energy and positive vibes than most people I know.

Is veganism for everyone ? I don't think so. lol But why generalize somethings work for some somethings don't for others.

[Monica]

Ashim Wrote:
To top it off I ask you a serious question

Serious? You ask someone who has written enough to make a book on a particular topic whether they've 'thought about it'? That was serious?

The ability to type copius amounts of text does not qualify one to author a book.

Ask any publisher about that.

It does, however, indicate that they've thought about it, which is what you were asking.

[Billy]

Why is eating apples a sts act? Did I miss something or am I just slow? Heh

[Parsons]

Knowingly, unnecessarily eating animals is an STS act.

93.3 ↥ Questioner: Thank you. The foundation of our present illusion we have stated previously to be the concept of polarity. I would ask that since we have defined the two polarities as service to others and service to self, is there a more complete or eloquent or enlightening definition or any more information that we don’t have at this time on the two ends of the poles that would give us a better insight into the nature of polarity itself?

Ra: I am Ra. It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service to others and service to self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity. However, we might consider the polarities using slightly variant terms. In this way a possible enrichment of insight might be achieved for some.

One might consider the polarities with the literal nature enjoyed by the physical polarity of the magnet. The negative and positive, with their electrical characteristics, may be seen to be just as in the physical sense. It is to be noted in this context that it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet.

Another method of viewing polarities might involve the concept of radiation/absorption. That which is positive is radiant; that which is negative is absorbent.

---

Why is eating apples a sts act? Did I miss something or am I just slow? Heh

I assumed she was joking but... :S

[Monica]

Not joking

---

To be more specific:

Knowingly, unnecessarily eating animals is an act that inherently has, relatively speaking, more STS polarizing potential than STO polarizing potential.

There. Is that better?

Anyway, I think Ra meant that you can't determine polarity based on the action alone. Other factors come into play, like intentions. That's why I used qualifiers. Obviously someone who knows that meat isn't necessary, but just does it because they like it, and they know how much the animal suffered, isn't getting the same polarizing potential as someone who is eating it unconsciously, or some primitive person who killed animals to survive. The act might be the same, but its polarity cannot be determined based on action alone.

[Billy]

An apple is an animal?

[Monica]

An apple is an animal?

No

[native]

Monica - There's not much else I desire to add. Glad I didn't offer anything unwanted.

If you aren't willing to take the life of an animal for food, I say you are in denial, not working in symbiosis.

It's the reason why I'm working on becoming a vegetarian, but I think people are just completely unconscious of things. I'm not sure that's even fair of me to say..that other's are unconscious..because all I know is that our mirror is everywhere and I get tired of opinions and words.

[Quan]

I agree, you cannot have a fully natural vegan diet without the use of some type of supplement.

Have you ever heard of Breatharians !

Body types, configurations ,occupation, sleep, water, environment, energy body, so many things affect nutrition.

I was able to live a month just on fruits and I felt great had no problems physically, my only problem was that I was to sensible and denser energies kind of bother me. Intuitive/Energetically speaking.

But I know vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians , breatharians who are really healthy and have more energy and positive vibes than most people I know.

Is veganism for everyone ? I don't think so. lol But why generalize somethings work for some somethings don't for others.

In relation to breatharians..The physiological meaning of food is assimilation of energy from the sun. Energy has reached the plant, plant eaten by animal, animal by man. Animals that are consumed for energy are typically ones that eats plants..
Or there are those that can assimilate energy by power of the mind alone without recourse of ordinary methods.
Referenced from Raja Yoga & Patanjali Yoga Sutra by Swami Vivekanada.

[Shemaya]

.

If you aren't willing to take the life of an animal for food, I say you are in denial, not working in symbiosis.

It's the reason why I'm working on becoming a vegetarian, but I think people are just completely unconscious of things. I'm not sure that's even fair of me to say..that other's are unconscious..because all I know is that our mirror is everywhere and I get tired of opinions and words.

Icaro! I feel that as well. It's a struggle to try to uplift others in true STO fashion and also live with the blindness that's around, looking continuously in a mirror to others who can't see . ( not talking about anyone here)

I have become much more self-accepting in the process. We kid ourselves about how loving and compassionate we think we are, if we saw the whole picture of our unconsciousness, then the deepest compassion would emerge.

Imo, you are far from denial. Maybe a bit overwhelmed by the breadth and depth of the darkness in this world?

---

Regarding knowingly consuming animals or apples is STS polarizing, oh no, that is wrong. Eating is a loving act in which one is caring for one's body, whether you eat plants or animals. That is a fact.

---

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-tur...74520.html

[Monica]

Regarding knowingly consuming animals or apples is STS polarizing, oh no, that is wrong. Eating is a loving act in which one is caring for one's body, whether you eat plants or animals. That is a fact.

1. Surely you jest? People generally eat because they like the taste, even when they know the food is causing disease.

2. Why do you always leave out the killing part?

[Shemaya]

Regarding knowingly consuming animals or apples is STS polarizing, oh no, that is wrong. Eating is a loving act in which one is caring for one's body, whether you eat plants or animals. That is a fact.

1. Surely you jest? People generally eat because they like the taste, even when they know the food is causing disease.

2. Why do you always leave out the killing part?

Not jesting.

Killing.....facing the darkest shadow parts. You have to go very deep to do that.

---

You really think that eating is not an act of self- love? Read the article I posted

[Monica]

Killing.....facing the darkest shadow parts. You have to go very deep to do that.

The animal must be KILLED before s/he can be eaten. WHY do you always leave that part out?? That is crucial. Paying someone to do the dirty work does not absolve one of responsibility. Buying dead animal body parts wrapped in plastic is essentially paying the assassin to kill the animal on one's behalf.

If eating animals is no big deal, then why not face the reality of it?

You really think that eating is not an act of self- love?

As with anything, the act itself cannot be judged without taking into consideration the intentions. Eating healthy foods, with gratitude, is a healthy self-love. Eating junk foods unconsciously is just...nothing. Consciously eating dead animals, when one knows how much they suffered, isn't self-love - it's service to self. Why? Because the person is putting self above other-self, to the point of controlling/violating other-self in the ultimate STS act: Killing the other-self against his/her will (or paying someone to do it for them). That is the action that must take place before one can eat meat.

---

I assumed she was joking but... :S

Why did you think I was joking?

[Billy]

Would a highy polarised STO individual always be involved in social justice type service in one way or another? Can you be highly positive and not be active in fighting the power?
Also, spill the beans Monica. The apple explanation, it's time.

[Parsons]

I assumed she was joking but... :S

Why did you think I was joking?

Because you said eating an apple is 'STS' then didn't explain what you were talking about... Are you referring / joking about the Bible

[Monica]

I have held back on this but ok, here goes:

In all seriousness:

Knowing, consciously eating apples is inherently STS.

Does anyone here eat apples?

Are you offended by me telling you it's STS? Do you feel judged?

[Shemaya]

Killing.....facing the darkest shadow parts. You have to go very deep to do that.

The animal must be KILLED before s/he can be eaten.

If eating animals is no big deal, then why not face the reality of it?

Ya, face it , according to Ra and the Law of One.

The Killer in me is the Killer in you

[Monica]

Killing.....facing the darkest shadow parts. You have to go very deep to do that.

The animal must be KILLED before s/he can be eaten.

If eating animals is no big deal, then why not face the reality of it?

Ya, face it , according to Ra and the Law of One.

The Killer in me is the Killer in you

You're evading the question. People murder, rape, lie, cheat, steal etc. all the time. So does that mean we should all just go ahead and do that stuff, since we're all 'one' anyway and it doesn't matter?

You are leaving out choice. And telling me "oh you're a killer too since we're all one" as a justification for YOUR choice to kill, doesn't cut it.

[Shemaya]

Monica,

If you can't look in the mirror, why would you expect anyone else to? Are you trying to say that you are not guilty of supporting violence , unnecessary killing and suffering?

If that's where you are coming from, I am totally done trying to converse with you. Because it's not a conversation, it's an agenda.

That's all I have to say.

[Monica]

Shemaya, do you feel judged when I say "Knowingly, consciously eating apples is inherently STS"?

[Shemaya]

Yes, I feel the judgment. It's not the words.

---

Do you feel anything when I say,
"The Killer in me is the Killer in you" ?

[Monica]

Yes, I feel the judgment. It's not the words.

Then it is your own perception. I feel zero judgment towards you for eating apples.

Do you feel anything when I say,
"The Killer in me is the Killer in you" ?

Nope. I just got that Smashing Pumpkins song stuck in my head.